Nassau and Suffolk County NY Red Light and Speed Cameras - Old Thread

I'll go over this area again this week.

~Angela

Thanks Angela!

dobs108

thanks again

A false positive is preferable to a missing negative.

On another note, the plethora of RLC in Suffolk and Nassau (100 in each county) is another nail in the coffin of my being a NYS resident. It is painfully obvious that MANY of these intersections are not now and have never been accident prone. Yet another blatant way for politicians to tax us "off the books." Disgusting.

It's only a 'tax' if you blow through the red lights...

As more red light cameras (RLC) have come into use - and as people have learned to adapt to their presence - it seems that rear-end accidents due to RLC have decreased. Due to such a decrease, opponents of RLC have been mostly deprived of the argument that RLC "increases" accidents.

Arguments that RLC are "unconstitutional" because they violate "a right to privacy" or deprive people of their "right to face your accuser" have been dismissed by the courts; this means that RLC opponents now are reduced to trumpeting a lack of "due process" and the horrible claim that RLC are a "tax" on the population and are there to produce (Oh, the horrors! of it all) revenue.

Let me be quick to say that there are municipalities that have been guilty of violating "due process" and the courts have done a good job of imposing injunctions until that situation is corrected (and disputing a violation should, in my opinion, be straightforward and incur no costs other than the time it takes to make the dispute).

I have never seen anyone on this site rail against parking tickets - which, it should be noted, are sent to the "owner" of the vehicle because the actual driver can not be known. Parking is a means of producing revenue - which also helps the town's merchants because it keeps parking spots coming up near their stores. You have to feed a meter in order to avoid a ticket. Is that a "TAX"? Well no, it is a fee for a privilege granted.

When you overpark, you may get a ticket. Is that a "TAX"
Well no, it is a penalty for a violation. Does that penalty produce revenue. Sure it does.

Were either the parking fee or the ticket for overparking a tax on "US". Well, no. It was a fee or a penalty on the person who parked or overparked.

It is quite accurate to say that RLC are revenue producing.

It seems to me to be a misrepresentation of the facts to say that

If the premise of RLC is safety and accident reduction rather than revenue, why are RLC predominantly placed at non-accident-prone intersections rather than at accident-prone intersections?

I have never believed (or contended) that revenue was not an important part of Automated Traffic Enforcement. I suspect there have been very few municipalities that have gone into the red on ATE (I only recall reading about one).

As to placement, that is certainly going to be a mixed bag. I know my city put them at places where they wanted to reduce accidents and accomplished that. Obviously, the ATE vendors want to put cameras at locations where they will get the most revenue out of their cut (and that is the free enterprise system that everybody loves at work).

Be that as it may be, as long as the yellow light timing equals or exceeds standards, the sites with cameras are posted, there is a "grace period" (say .5 seconds) given in the review process (and I doubt if municipalities would advertise this as it would encourage cheaters who already take advantage of the two second "all red"), there is periodic calibration of the cameras, and there is a simple, no fee process for disputing a ticket, I fail to see why anyone would object.

After all, the vehicle DID RUN THE RED LIGHT

Whenever NYS needs revenue, they get it from Long Island. It's no secret that LI pays more in taxes and fees to NYS than it gets back in services and for that reason there is a small, but growing, movement for LI to separate from NYS and become it's own state.

There's been talk like that for over 40 years that I remember...not going to happen.

Please double-check me on this, but I saw 2 new RLC'd intersections in Nassau this weekend, both in the vicinity of Mitchell Field.

First is at Stewart Avenue and Quentin Roosevelt Blvd (South Street on the north side of the intersection). I am confident of this location.

Second, of which I am not as confident I recall the correct location, is Stewart Avenue and Merchant's Concourse (Endo Avenue south of the intersection). I may be off on this one; please someone double-check.

I did not see them flash, but the cameras were present, in multiple directions.

There's talk around the country in various areas, north and south New Jersey, out in the California Oregon area and (a few others http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/51st_state#By_partition_and_sec...) as well for years. As mentioned, it never goes anywhere.

On the other hand, there are many upstate folks who would love to cut lower New York off at Westchester and create "New Amsterdam" from upstate New York. The downside for us here on Long Island is that New York City would be "New York State" and Long Island would basically be taken over and subject to the rules and whims of whatever NYC wanted. Much like the ASSembly rules the entire state now due to the sheer number of people in NYC. The Mayor of New York City would basically become the governor and elected by the five boroughs, again due to the population density.

I try to imagine what life would be like here in Nassau County if the towns of Hempstead, North Hempstead and Oyster Bay had decided to stay with Queens County back in 1897 and join New York City. There would be no "City of Glen Cove" or "City of Long Beach". And as urban as Nassau County is becoming now (driving down Jericho Turnpike in Mineola/Williston Park looks a lot like Jamaica now), a lot more of it would probably already look like much of Queens does now. The urban/suburban line would run through Farmingdale instead of Floral Park and New Hyde Park. Buildings like North Shore Towers would be common throughout the area that is now Nassau County.

don't you take westchester county and the rest of NYC

Back on topic. I have already notified Globe Turtle but I am posting here for reference. I finally bit the bullet and updated the RLC data on my GPS. I had not changed it since last October when I started noticing all the odd RLC reports in Nassau County. Well right off the bat I found two bad RLC reports while driving yesterday morning and evening. The 'Northern & Middle Neck" and "Merritts & Conklin" POI's are not valid. No cameras of any kind there. I also believe there may be some duplicates with slightly different coordinates reported.

Frankly the id!0t who reported these intersections should have his/her reporting privileges revoked. It screws up the accuracy of the data and makes me question whether or not they are deliberately feeding false data to cause problems. Newsday reported yesterday that RLC revenue is down 24% and part of that is due to GPS alerts causing people to stop. I am sure the county's would love to ban or otherwise feed false data such that the GPS do not report good data.

These two locations will be corrected in Wednesday’s update.

Once again, Nassau and Suffolk counties are difficult areas for us. We've filed two separate Freedom of Information requests and were denied on both, with the agencies indicating they were exempt from the Act/Law as part of the judiciary.

I received emails from four different members last fall with the same list of camera locations for this area and several of them indicated some of the locations were already up and running. It appears now that this was a wish list and not all locations have gone in as quickly as many were led to believe. While I've had confirmation on a few, I think it would be best for me to change the unconfirmed locations from active to “planned” until I receive further confirmation from members of our community.

So once again, I ask that if you are in this area please msg me if you see cameras going in or being removed. With most other states/governing jurisdictions, there appears to be much more transparency regarding locations. I can generally find public documents and news articles that help me keep those areas camera content current. This part of New York is different, which forces us rely on our members much more to help keep our content accurate.

Also, If you know of a non-judicial agency that is involved with setting up the camera locations, please contact me.

Thanks!

~Angela

I was up on Long Island last month, with a freshly updated RLC file, and I thought I noticed several false positives along Hempstead Turnpike in the East Meadow/Levittown area, but I didn't have time to check thoroughly. I'll be back up in a few weeks and check again, and will report any incorrect spots.

Thanks! All the help is appreciated. Now that I have the newest file with errors I will be able to spot more myself.

The county's "Wish List" was rather large and it will take some time to undo it. Their county's cloak of secrecy is absolutely appalling. I thought this was about safety and knowing where the dangerous intersections are. Silly me LOL!

I'll check into those later in the week.

HOLY SMOKES! I just loaded up the latest file. There are 10 cameras listed between the Meadowbrook Parkway and 135 on Hempstead Turnpike (NY 24). I know for a fact there are only about 3 or MAYBE 4 there. I'll be helping glean the crap out of the system.

sigh...

Thanks to everyone. I haven't been on Hempstead Turnpike recently, but found several false locations from Franklin Square to New Hyde Park and Westbury. They have been removed.

dobs108

* Stewart Ave & Hempstead Tpke, Bethpage, NY -
N40.72556 W73.48265 False
* Hempstead Tpke & Silver Ln, Levittown, NY -
N40.72557 W73.50376 False
* Hempstead Tpke & Hicksville Rd, Plainedge, NY -
N40.72529 W73.48857 False
* Hempstead Tpke & Center Ln, Levittown, NY -
N40.72483 W73.52530 False
* Hempstead Tpke & Wolcott, Levittown, NY -
N40.72447 W73.53459 False
* Hempstead Tpke & Prospect, East Meadow, NY -
N40.72504 W73.54931 False
* E Meadow & Front, East Meadow, NY -
N40.71993 W73.56402 False

This is a situation known as FUBAR... Locations reported to Angela. This is going take quite some cooperation from fellow members. Please be on the lookout and report in when you are able to validate any false Nassau/Suffolk RLCs in the next few weeks.

Thanks folks.

By the way, these were in the RLC file dated 4/23/2014.

I removed 69 locations from just this area today, so please download the current file and we can go from there with further corrections as needed.

Thanks!

~Angela

I agree with you. I have been noticing false RLC's being reported for about the last 6 months in nassau county. I would love for the person posting these false reports to be removed from this forum.

Are they attributable for the most part to one particular member?

Also, some LI locations are RLC'd in less than all directions. Since the RLC file is csv not gpx, what seems like a false positive might actually have an RLC on an intersecting street, not easily or readily visible as you cross than street. This might account for a few or some of the false positives.

We need to be certain none of the intersecting streets has any RLC before removing from the list. I'd rather have a few false positives than a missing RLC at a partially RLC'd intersection.

Yup, RLC's are all about safety in the Nanny State - not.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/li-speed-cameras-clear-st...

"LI speed cameras clear State Senate

Originally published: April 30, 2014 6:44 PM
Updated: April 30, 2014 10:36 PM
By YANCEY ROY yancey.roy@newsday.com

ALBANY -- The State Senate approved a bill Wednesday to allow up to 125 school-zone speed cameras on Long Island, paving the way for the possible end of a three-year wage freeze in Nassau County.

Senate officials hadn't planned on taking up the bill this week. But with an important Nassau deadline looming, the Senate changed plans. The chamber easily passed the bill, 49-11. Three Long Island lawmakers voted no.

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo is likely to sign the bill soon, a spokesman said.

Timing was key for Nassau County. On Friday, the Nassau Interim Finance Authority, the state board that controls county finances, is scheduled to consider labor agreements that would end a wage freeze for most county union employees. Nassau is depending on speed camera revenue to help pay for the contracts. Nassau, union and Cuomo administration officials met Tuesday, a day before the Senate vote, a source said.

Nassau County Executive Edward Mangano has said the county could realize $25 million or more annually from speed-camera revenue. His office didn't immediately return calls for comment Wednesday.

NIFA chairman Jon Kaiman, who was appointed by Cuomo, said after the Senate vote that "the county is coming forward with revenue and savings that give me greater confidence that they can cover the costs."

NIFA is scheduled to meet Friday to consider approving Memorandums of Agreements with four of the five county unions -- the Civil Service Employees Association, the Police Benevolent Association, the Detectives Association, and the Superior Officers Association. A deal with the county's correction officers has yet to be finalized.

The agreements would end the wage freeze NIFA imposed in March 2011 and give union workers raises retroactive to April 1.

The school-zone speed camera bill authorizes 69 cameras in Suffolk County and 56 in Nassau, one per public school district. It also would expand the number of speed cameras in New York City from the current 20 to 140. Net proceeds from tickets generated on village streets would go to villages.

Sen. Martin Golden (R-Brooklyn) had held up negotiations on the bill, pushing for a share of the money to go to public safety programs in some jurisdictions. He indicated Wednesday that the sides had reached an agreement to that effect. Details weren't immediately available.

Backers said speed cameras would improve safety in school zones.

"The evidence is clear -- when drivers know they might be caught, they slow down," said Senate co-leader Jeff Klein (D-Bronx), sponsor of the bill in the Senate. "We need to make people think twice before they hit that accelerator in a school zone and these cameras will do exactly that."

Opponents called it a "money grab" and recalled the hidden cameras that watch citizens in the novel "1984."

"I believe that the effort for more speed cameras kept being disguised as a public safety measure when it was all about generating more revenue," Sen. Lee Zeldin (R-Shirley), who voted no, said after the vote. "We're seeing more and more cameras in our neighborhoods, and enough is enough. I've heard from many of my constituents who agree with me."

Sen. John Flanagan (R-East Northport) and Kenneth LaValle (R-Port Jefferson) also voted no.

Senate co-leader Dean Skelos (R-Rockville Centre) supported the measure, along with Sens. Phil Boyle (R-Bay Shore), Kemp Hannon (R-Garden City), Carl Marcellino (R-Syosset) and Jack Martins (R-Mineola).

The Assembly approved the speed camera bill Monday. Assemb. Michael Fitzpatrick (R-St. James) was the lone Island Assembly member to oppose."

All the false positives reported by Aardvark, camerabob, Moose135, and me were checked by going to the location, and there were no cameras in any direction.

dobs108

To add insult to injury, the NYS Senate just approved 125 speed cameras for Long Island. It appears that they want to put at least one in every school district in a school zone. They claim it is for safety but we really know it's about money. They expect to use the revenues to lift pay freezes of county employees.

Another good reason not to visit NannyBurg (aka New York and associates). Spend your hard earned vacation $$ in another state.

I have updated my device and will keep searching for false POI's. I do not get out into Suffolk much beyond Babylon and East Farmingdale but it appears that the Suffolk data is in good shape. Nassau was corrupted by the reporting of the county "wish list" instead of actual locations. I am heading out later today towards Westbury and East Meadow so I will be able to check those areas. Old Country Road and Hempstead Turnpike seem to have had a lot of bad data but those are heavily traveled and the county would monitor every intersection from the NYC line to Suffolk if they could.

I have never seen an RLC in Nassau that covers less than the entire intersection. In Suffolk, they are quite common with NY-110/Conklin, NY-110/Main Street and NY-27A/Great East Neck Road being three I know off the top of my head that cover one or two directions only. Those intersections are only signed where the monitoring is taking place. The non-monitored directions have no warning signs.

As for speed cameras, those worry me the most. Those zones are already set to ridiculously low speeds such as 20MPH and are in force in places from 6AM to 6PM. If they set the threshold at 5MPH, they will make a fortune. One of the biggest money makers will probably be Great East Neck Road by South Bay Elementary School. A four lane "highway" with a 20MPH speed limit in the school zone.

Remember that each of the counties is permitted "200 cameras at 100 locations." This probably means that fewer than 100 intersections would be covered, but it also means many intersections would have fewer than 4 cameras.

Many locations have a driveway where a camera should be. Some locations have cameras on the main road and none on the side roads. An example is Broadway and Nevada Street near Sears in Hicksville.

dobs108

The signage for many school zones right now does not comply with the NY State Vehicle and Traffic Law. I hope that each speed camera will be installed with signs that have been upgraded to comply with the law, not blocked behind parked vehicles or foliage, include the hours school is in session, and make sure the sign after the school zone where the normal speed limit resumes really exists. This last sign defines the end of the school zone. Without it the school speed limit is not legal.

dobs108

As I see them i will post.

dobs108

I got pulled over by a Suffolk County officer some years back after passing through a school zone. It was a summer Sunday afternoon, so like the five cars in front of me, I just plodded along at 40 or so. Since he was the last in line behind me, of course, I get pulled over. His gist was that a school zone is a school zone, no matter if school is in session or not. He gave me a warning, but I now slow down for them, regardless....

That explains the new sign I saw near South Bay Elementary School that says it is the end of the speed zone. I had never seen one of those before and it is the only one I have seen so far.

As for the new RLC file. I found no false positives (or false negatives) on my trip yesterday. Still that was only a fraction of the surface area of the county but it was a good sign.

That explains the new sign I saw near South Bay Elementary School that says it is the end of the speed zone. I had never seen one of those before and it is the only one I have seen so far.

As for the new RLC file. I found no false positives (or false negatives) on my trip yesterday. Still that was only a fraction of the surface area of the county but it was a good sign.

Due to my changing jobs I now take the bus to work every day here in Chicago. The union contract calls for the CTA to pay for all red light and speed cam tickets, and the bus drivers are the only ones that don't slow down in school zones-the car and delivery truck drivers are very aware of the speed cams, and you see them driving at the appropriate speeds.

The sign after the school zone can be an ordinary speed limit sign. For example, if the school zone speed limit is 30 mph, at the end of the school zone there must be a speed limit sign of 40 mph, if that is the usual speed limit for that road.

dobs108

Our experience at POI Factory based on many locations around the country that have school zone speed cameras, is that the people who get the tickets are the teachers, students, and parents driving their children to school. I haven't heard that school buses are getting the tickets.

dobs108

The way these cameras are administered in most locations proves that they are used to generate money not as safety devices.

If you and I were to mutually stipulate that Automated Traffic Enforcement cameras should be checked no less than quarterly for accuracy, that the yellow light timing at red light cameras should meet or exceed the MUTCD guidelines, and that disputing a ticket should not cost the alleged offender any money, could we debate whether or not it would be appropriate that such cameras generate money?

Given the stipulations, we would, I hope, agree that a traffic law was broken and that a penalty was in order. How does that differ from parking tickets which generate revenue?

jgermann

We don't want our thread to be used for endless theoretical debate. This is the Nassau and Suffolk County, New York thread and you are not from our area.

Nassau and Suffolk posters - please do not answer.

dobs108

Your comment was totally uncalled for. jgermann has the right to state his opinion regardless of where he is from. His comments were relevant to the topic being discussed.

Please let us all keep our responses in a friendly manner, that's what differentiates this site from others.

BTW I am a Suffolk resident.

I noticed on NY-109 at New Highway that Suffolk has replaced the W3-3 traffic light signs (with W16-10aP "PHOTO ENFORCED" signs) with the newer R10-18a single white "PHOTO ENFORCED" signs. I wonder what is up with that. They are both valid under the MUTCD. Curious to see if Nassau will be replacing their older W3-3's with R10-18a's.

I have seen the single white "photo enforced" signs at some locations in Nassau. I think they are at Jericho Tpk. and Mineola Blvd. In my opinion this is a better sign than the style with a small sign added at the bottom. I am not aware of any intersections that don't have any signs.

Edit -

Soon after I wrote this I drove through Jericho Tpk. and Woodbury Road, which does not have signs!

dobs108

I am noticing that several camera sites in Suffolk County have been shut down and the equipment obviously being moved to new more productive sites. I have been using a Cheetah RLC for the past few years, but its data base has been seriously outdated. Cheetah users beware....

Beware that Newsday's list of RLC's is now outdated. Several new sites up and running in Bay Shore, Shirley, and Mastic. Also, many older sites have been taken down....

Camera#1
Montauk Highway (RT27A) East & Westbound at intersection of Garden Place,
Shirley, Long Island, NY

Camera#2
Montauk Highway (RT27A) East & Westbound at intersection of Washington
Avenue, Mastic, Long Island, NY

Note: Suffolk County, Long Island, NY, is in the process of moving many of
its prior RLC's to new locations due to reduced violation income and adding
50 new cameras as well.

Suffolk County moving the old cameras as well as adding new ones.....

From the first, Newsday's red light camera locations were never accurate. Most errors involved false positive locations, while some actual locations were left out. What is their source of information, since the counties keep all locations secret?

dobs108