Nassau and Suffolk County NY Red Light and Speed Cameras - Old Thread

Newsday and accurate in the same sentence . . .

I have to double check myself but there is one site that went in a few months ago on Great East Neck Road in West Babylon that appears to be gone. I did not have a chance to stop and check as I had a green light but I recall not seeing the camera that I had seen in the past. It is right by a school that will most likely be getting what will be a very productive speed camera so perhaps they decided to remove it.

A new red light camera is being installed at Jericho Tpk. and Oakwood Road in Huntington. They have just started so I will delay reporting it for now.

dobs108

At Jericho Tpk. and Glen Cove Road westbound there is a red light camera where the stop line and crosswalk lines have worn off completely. I thought Nassau County was committed to maintain the condition of red light camera intersections so law-abiding drivers are treated fairly while trying to comply with the law!
Edit:

Aha! But wait! Jericho Tpk. is a state road! The County is not responsible there!

dobs108

Just went through Conklin Street and Broadhollow Road (rt. 110) intersection in Farmingdale, Suffolk County, where there is a red light camera. The yellow light timing seemed about right.

Going northbound on Broadhollow, the left turn signal went from red to green arrow, and one car proceeded, when the green arrow turned yellow and then red. One car proceeded on green!

After that, the northbound main road signal turned green and a tractor trailer proceeded, when the light turned yellow and then red. One truck proceeded in that lane on green!

Posters from other areas have reported the municipality messing with the yellow light timing when revenue falls, but this time it is the green light timing. It has only been several weeks since both counties reported big drops in revenue.

This happened at lunch time which is very busy at that location. At other times of day the timing is proper. I will report this defect for repair but don't hold your breath - in my opinion this is a case of the fox guarding the chicken coop!

The same thing is going on at Jericho Turnpike and Woodbury Road in Nassau county.

dobs108

The governor signed the Nassau and Suffolk speed camera bill yesterday, according to Newsday. (no link since newsday.com is a pay site) The Nassau county spokesman said that Nassau's speed cameras would be "installed by mid-July," while Suffolk is planning on "early 2015."

Since the passage of this law was in doubt as little as two months ago, the only way Nassau could possibly be ready so soon would be to use the existing red light cameras as speed cameras. The technology is already there. Only cameras within 1/4 mile of a school can be used for speed. For more info on this see the thread on New York City speed cameras -

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42858

POI Factory has already been mentioned by Long Island officials as one of the reasons area drivers learned where red light cameras were and caused a big drop in revenue. They could really put one over on us by installing "stealth" speed cameras within existing enclosures that we cannot discover and geocode.

I am not advocating for every red light camera location to be added to the speed camera file, but planning to make sure my speed is less than 10 mph over the speed limit on receiving a proximity alert of a red light camera when a school is nearby. I approach red light camera locations at a speed that enables me to stop quickly anyway.

dobs108

According to the Wall Street Journal, there will be no warning signs for speed cameras in New York State. This link might work but WSJ is a pay site -

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2014/05/27/new-york-city-to-...

Not requiring signs "...was done partially to benefit Nassau County, which needed the bill passed expeditiously to raise money from the program to close a budget gap..." said state Sen. Jeffrey D. Klein, who sponsored the measure.

dobs108

They are getting ready to put them all over.

So we are responsible for a "big drop in revenue", while safety was not impacted?

They aren't even bothering to cover up the reason for the cameras. Fleecing the public, fleecing the public...

There is a bright side in that there will only be one speed camera per district. As such, it will at least be easier to get an idea where the speed cameras are based on school district boundaries. You will not see three schools in one district with cameras. About two years ago, I created a Google Map of all schools in Nassau County so that will be a start since I already know where the schools are. The link to the map is http://goo.gl/maps/jFRqD. There are a lot of schools BUT as noted, only one per district so it will be easier to map out 56 instead of close to 200. Suffolk will be harder with 69 but I am pretty sure I know where one will be going (hint: Great East Neck Road by Great South Bay School).

Aardvark, thanks for the school map. This is very important information.

The flash unit is present for southbound Oakwood Rd (very close to the NW corner of Jericho Tpke), but there are wires hanging where I assume the camera will be mounted.

On the north side of Jericho Tpke there is a shiny new pole (with control box), but nothing atop the pole yet. It is near the eastern entrance to the gas station.

I did not see any installation (no poles) on the south side of Jericho Tpke, west of Oakwood Rd.

There were no RLC warning signs anywhere (yet).

Thanks perpster - I was getting ready to drive there to see if they were done.

This location is nearby Walt Whitman High School although there is no school entrance on Jericho Tpke.

dobs108

Thanks! I lost quite a few hairs putting that together. The hard part was actually finding a document with the addresses of all the schools. It was not as easy to find as I thought it would be at the time. Then of course there is finding the location and putting a pin on it. I did find a lot of errors in Google's own POI's at the time that I reported and they fixed.

You are welcome. IIRC, neither street is a marked school zone near that intersection. There is a school zone on Oakwood Rd about a half mile north, for the middle school.

I checked last night and there is still an RLC there. They appear to have removed one of the two cameras but the other is still there and warning signs are posted.

That area is going to be a speed camera operator's dream. This is a four lane wide open highway near a school with a normal speed limit of 30MPH and a school speed limit of 20MPH. For comparison, a nearby highway of the same four-lane type through the same area is 40MPH. Drive 30MPH though this zone and you will get hit when the camera (and I am sure there will be one there) is active. This limit is so artificially low it isn't funny. I tried driving 20MPH briefly even though the limit is not active now and it is a lot of effort to keep the car that slow.

Nassau has announced it will be ready by the second week of July for speed camera enforcement near schools. We have already discussed the possibility of red light cameras being used for speed. The other possibility is mobile speed cameras.

Several weeks ago I emailed my NY State Senator to ask whether the new law allows mobile speed cameras in Nassau and Suffolk. He has not answered.

I read the law on the website of the State Senator who sponsored the bill, and the same speed camera law applies to New York City and also Nassau and Suffolk. How the camera is installed, positioned, and used is not mentioned in the law. Mobile speed cameras is not mentioned and not ruled out. We know that the city can use mobile speed cameras so we must conclude that Nassau and Suffolk can too.

At first I did not think that Nassau could have mobile speed cameras ready so soon because bidding and purchasing takes so long in government, but Nassau may already have an arrangement with the red light/speed camera contractor that provides the mobile speed cameras to Nassau County at no cost because they are literally a profit-making business.

Mobile speed cameras could already be on the road in Nassau.

dobs108

The NY State Vehicle and Traffic Law provides that school speed limit signs must conform to the following: On top of the speed limit sign it must say "School." Below the speed limit sign it must say, "School Days Only" along with the time of day the school speed limit is in effect. For example, "7 AM to 6 PM." The law does not further define "school days" or how drivers are to receive notice of what days are school days.

The end of the school zone is marked by an ordinary speed limit sign. If this sign is absent, the school speed limit is not legal because no one can determine where the school zone ends.

The alternate is the flashing yellow light method where the lights are controlled by the school. When the lights are flashing the school speed zone is in effect.

The law just passed with regard to speed cameras in school zones now provides "school activities" which has not been previously mentioned in the Vehicle and Traffic Law. The school speed zone is in effect from 1/2 hour before to 1/2 hour after school activities. This will not be posted on the school speed limit signs.

How will drivers obtain prior notice of "school activities?"

This is the summer. Are "school activities" going on in any schools? I have no idea if my local school has anything going on. Is there summer school? Are there sports programs? Who decides whether activities merit a school speed limit and how do they communicate this to the speed camera contractor?

dobs108

Very good questions. I would guess that since the beast always needs to be fed more green stuff, the lower courts will uphold all or most such tickets.

Jericho Tpke northeast corner, just a few feet east of Oakwood Rd, now has a shiny new pole with a unit on its head pointed sharply down toward the stop line. I couldn't tell if the head is a flash unit, a camera unit, or both.

The shiny new pole a few yards east (with the control box) still has no head. Long live the headless pole!

NY should have it's own POI on everything, redlight cams, speedtraps, mobile speed cams, installed speed cams.......

dobs108 [/quote]
There is a bright side in that there will only be one speed camera per district. As such, it will at least be easier to get an idea where the speed cameras are based on school district boundaries. You will not see three schools in one district with cameras. About two years ago, I created a Google Map of all schools in Nassau County so that will be a start since I already know where the schools are. The link to the map is http://goo.gl/maps/jFRqD. There are a lot of schools BUT as noted, only one per district so it will be easier to map out 56 instead of close to 200. Suffolk will be harder with 69 but I am pretty sure I know where one will be going (hint: Great East Neck Road by Great South Bay School).
[/quote]

Thanks for the school map. I appreciate all of the hard work you put into making this site so informative and great.

The issue of "school activities" is an interesting one. The term is vague and how are drivers supposed to know that a school activity is taking place?

The school map is from aardvark.

Yes, the inclusion of school activities at times that drivers cannot possibly be aware of, means that lawmakers were not intent on safety and compliance with the law, but on creating a trap for law-abiding drivers that cannot be avoided.

dobs108

The installation at Jericho and Oakwood is taking many times longer than any other in the past. It makes me think that the red light contractor is working on something much more important - like speed cameras!

dobs108

thanks for the link

This is the site we were discussing that is highly inaccurate! Also, the link may not be accessible to anyone without a Newsday subscription.

dobs108

Speed cameras are now in operation in Nassau County, according to today's Newsday. (Sorry - no link because Newsday.com is a pay site.)

There is a photo of a mobile speed camera car which is a small white car with two black bars on the roof each with a 14 inch wide by 4 inch high rectangle on the left and a smaller rectangular strobe on the right.

They were in operation recently at Plainedge Middle School in Bethpage, Dutch Lane Elementary School in Hicksville, and Abbey Lane School in Levittown. Fixed cameras will be ready by October, according to the county.

I emailed the reporter who wrote the Newsday article:

"Thanks for the article on Nassau County Speed Cameras. I was shocked to hear that they were operating in the summer, since I thought school was closed. As you know, the speed limit signs at those schools say "School Days Only." I went to the websites of the three schools in the article, and their school calendars were blank for the months of July and August!"

"In my opinion, law-abiding drivers have not received prior notice from Nassau County of when school is open so that they can observe the school speed limit. Are we drivers supposed to contact all 125 school districts on Long Island? The three websites I looked at did not indicate school was open, but the speed cameras were in operation!"

I sent a similar email to the Nassau County Executive and all Legislators.

dobs108

If you feel the use of speed cameras at schools this summer is unfair to law-abiding drivers, please contact Nassau County officials using their contact forms. Email addresses are not published on the web because spambots would gather them.

http://www.nassaucountyny.gov/electcontact.html

dobs108

Today I drove by the three schools where mobile speed cameras were in operation two days ago. None of the school speed zones used the flashing-yellow-lights method.

They all had school speed limit signs that said, "School Days Only" and the time, typically 7 AM - 6 PM. There were also new signs, rectangle in shape and white, saying, "Speed Limit Enforced by Photo/Video."

There was no indication that the schools were open in the summer.

dobs108

Wow they are actually putting up warning signs? I was under the impression they were not going to do that specifically to capture revenue. This BS about not having any alerts that the school zone is in effect in the summer is appalling. One assumes schools are closed in the summer and if the speed zone is in force the flashing yellow lights will be active. Again I realize it is all about revenue and not safety but they are really creating a generation of people with nothing but contempt for the law. I myself am getting a WTF attitude from all the crappy laws they are throwing at us simply to make money. I'd swear there is a defect in our DNA that creates politicians.

I just read the article in Newsday. It appears that the first 3 speed cameras are now in operation. Since these cameras are mounted on unmarked vans, I wonder if the county will play a shell game and move them around to different schools. We will see.

Larry

Since no information about the schools being open in the summer could be gotten from their websites, I called the school offices Monday morning to inquire whether Friday, July 25th was a school day. This is the day the speed cameras were operating.

Plainedge Middle School had Special Ed classes going on.

Dutch Lane Elementary School had no classes but had a recreational Summer Program going on. This qualifies as school activities under the law.

However, Abbey Lane School was closed. They have summer school classes scheduled Monday through Thursday. A speed camera was in operation outside this closed school.

dobs108

Two coworkers of mine both got hit by a speed camera in Far Rockaway, Queens on Beach Channel Drive.
The summons does not list the exact location of the camera but says that it is between x and y streets.

Since it was the last day of school in NYC, I am not sure if they are operational when school is closed.

Rob

I went bike riding last night through Old Bethpage on Round Swamp Road past Old Bethpage Elementary School. No speed cameras there (yet) but at 7:45PM the school zone speed limit warning lights were flashing and the radar activated speed display sign was operational (was useful to help me check whether my new bike speedometer was correct - it was). I am going to assume that once the cameras are installed, these school zones will be operational 24x7 in order to maximize profits, er I mean safety. That school was closed up tight and no cars around yet the zone was active.

At that school, the flashing yellow lights are on at all times, 24 hours 7 days a week, and in the summer. Whoever controls the lights is in gross violation of the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

dobs108

After checking several Nassau schools, it looks like many schools are open all summer. They don't look like they are open. There is no indication on the school website or calendar that they are open. Drivers nearby don't know they are open. A call to the school office shows they are open!

This is the "Gotcha" Nassau needs. The new law does not provide for prior notice to drivers that the school is open in summer, or the evening, or even on Sunday!

dobs108

I guess, technically, all schools are open year round whether or not there is summer school. The office and support staff (janitorial) are usually on site all year long. Summer is usually the time all the backed up maintenance and renovations can be performed. On the plus side, Great South Bay School in West Babylon does not leave their school zone lights on during the summer (yet). We at least get a reprieve there since Suffolk is not expected to award camera contracts until 2015.

My calls to the school offices were to ask whether there were classes or school activities with students, and the answer this July was usually "yes."

Most people are unaware of this.

dobs108

Anyone want to encode a school zone speed cameras POI for Nassau? An anonymous source posted these on another site. Not all districts listed (yet):

15 Pershing Blvd @ St. Christopher School Baldwin

1870 Merrick Ave @ Merrick Avenue Middle School Merrick

601 Plainview Rd @ Charles Campagne School Bethpage

101 Carman Ave @ East Meadow High School East Meadow

1880 Dutch Broadway @ Dutch Broadway School Elmont

560 Nassau Blvd @ John Street School Franklin Square

1170 Peninsula Blvd @ Woodmere Middle School Woodmere

520 South Oyster Bay Rd @ Our Lady of Mercy School Hicksville

45 Wantagh Ave South @ Island Trees Middle School Levittown

678 Cantiague Rock Rd @ Cantiague Elementary School Jericho

3369 Old Jerusalem Rd @ Gen. Douglas MacArthur H S. Levittown

237 Lido Blvd @ Lido Elementary School Lido Beach

27 Shelter Rock Rd @ Shelter Rock Elementary School Manhasset

350 Unqua Rd @ Unqua Elementary School East Massapequa

108 Merrick Ave @ Chatterton School Merrick

300 New Hyde Park Rd @ New Hyde Park Rd New Hyde Park

1712 Merrick Ave @ Camp Avenue School North Merrick

1 Flower Rd @ Schwarting Elementary School Massapequa

300 Manetto Hill Rd @ Parkway School Plainview

140 West Centennial Ave @ Centennial Ave School Roosevelt

3 Glen Cove Rd @ Harbor Hill School Greenvale

1575 Seamans Neck Rd @ Seaford High School Seaford

580 Woodbury Rd @ Baylis Elementary School Plainview

400 Nassau Blvd @ West Hempstead High School West Hempstead

101 Maple Avenue @ St. Brigid/Our Lady of Hope School Westbury

170 Rockaway Ave @ Garden City High School Garden City

341 Lakeville Rd @ Great Neck South Sr./Jr. H.S. Great Neck

529 Merrick Rd @ Lynbrook North Middle School Lynbrook

75 Ocean Ave @ Malvern Sr. High School Malverne

1601 Newbridge Rd @ Newbridge Road School Bellmore

705 Pt Washington Blvd @ C P W Middle School Port Washington

975 Jerusalem Ave @ Turtle Hook Middle School Uniondale

505 Glen Cove Ave @ N Shore Middle School Glen Head

Interesting list!

Maybe we should wait for an installation to start for accurate coordinates. Speed cameras, unlike red light cameras, do not have to be at an intersection.

I recognize three locations in my area where people regularly go 20 to 30 mph over the school speed limit during the regular school year:

520 South Oyster Bay Rd @ Our Lady of Mercy School Hicksville

300 Manetto Hill Rd @ Parkway School Plainview

580 Woodbury Rd @ Baylis Elementary School Plainview

At Parkway School in a 30 mph school zone, I was going 40 mph when a car came from behind and crossed the double yellow line to pass me on the wrong side of the road! Just because I am generally against these cameras does not mean I support that fool!

All three of these schools have more than one existing traffic signal at nearby intersections, so a combination red light camera/speed camera is a possibility. Edit - That did not turn out to be true. Parkway and Baylis now have fixed speed cameras that are not near an intersection.

I think I will drive around and look for signs of a camera installation, like colored marking paint on the pavement.

dobs108

At Jericho Turnpike and Oakwood Road, Suffolk County, the red light camera installation still has no cameras on top of the poles. The strobes are finished.

dobs108

On second thought, this must be the list for mobile speed cameras on a rotating schedule. They are not staying where they were on July 25th; they are moving around.

As time goes on, it will also be the list for permanent speed cameras, which are more cost-effective.

I don't know whether we should geocode these locations and submit them. The list could grow to every school in Nassau.

dobs108

The Glen Head location makes sense. A teacher was hit crossing their a year and a half ago by a speeder. Limit is 25 in the zone there but 45 is normal for some folks heading to Glen Cove. Greenvale is also a good location as that is on an open stretch of Glen Cove Road just south of NY-25A. Shelter Rock in Manhasset puzzles me as the Munsey Park School on NY-25A is a much better trap IMHO due to the downward slope on the road and the ridiculously low speed limit in that zone compared to the rest of the road.

Your Nassau public school map will be invaluable for geocoding these schools!

dobs108

Ditto a few hours ago.

Fixed speed cameras were found at the following locations:

Unqua Elementary School, East Massapequa

Parkway School, Plainview

Seaford High School

Dutch Broadway School, Elmont

Baylis Elementary School, Plainview - camera construction

The camera is a single pole and serves both directions of travel. It looks exactly like the latest installations of Nassau County red light cameras except that there are two cameras, strobes, equipment boxes, two of everything on the same pole.

Two single speed cameras were found near Lido Elementary School, Lido Beach.

All members, please drive by the locations on Aardvark's list to check for fixed cameras.

The coordinates of all these cameras have been sent to Angela.

dobs108

Sunday 8/3/14 Newsday had a story on the school speed cameras. They published some Q&A with a Nassau official. One that stands out is that flashing yellow lights will NOT need to be on when the speed cameras are active. Suffolk not supposed to be going active until 2015.

There is always room for more cash grabbing cameras!
the best advise is keep your camera POI up to date and slow down. when they become more costly to operate verses the revenue generated they will disappear, but as long as they make money hand over fist more will continue to keep popping up!

that insist on not following the speed limits that are more than happy to pay for the privilege of not following those guidelines.