Nassau and Suffolk County NY Red Light and Speed Cameras - Old Thread

Nassau County officials have stated that they would provide a list of speed camera locations, and Aardvark's list was published in Newsday and posted on Newsday.com. It is a pay site so no link will be provided since only Newsday.com suscribers would be able to view it.

dobs108

I'm in total agreement that we must follow the rules for the childrens sake, however, when those guidelines are ambiguous I have a problem with that.

Paying an 80.00 fine is no fun when you thought you were abiding by the law.

Just like real estate says location matters, quoting others helps when it is in context.

The new concept of school speed cameras can only succeed if law-abiding drivers know when the lower speed limit is in effect. The state legislature has failed to provide a method to accomplish this. "No Prior Notice" is a powerful concept, and it is going to motivate law-abiding drivers to get this law changed.

Half the signs do not provide the required time of day for the speed limit, but the new category in the law of "school activities" after hours or on the weekend is unreasonable since drivers cannot possibly be aware that these events are going on.

The worst has already happened - drivers knowing that school is actually closed and driving at the normal speed limit, while those operating the cameras are issuing tickets, thinking that school is open. That is the reason Nassau County returned all $2.4 million in fines earned in only three weeks.

The chaos is not over. The controversy will grow and the program will end in the courts.

dobs108

I don't see why there is all this fuss. Just follow the posted school zone speed limit regardless of day and time and you will be ok.

That is essentially what I am doing. We can see that is what has to be done.

Traffic regulations are required to be similar across the country using a handbook from the Federal DOT. Every state has adopted selected parts of it.

People from other states can and do drive into Nassau County and they expect our school speed limits to be similar to those back home. There will be no sign that says, "School speed limits should be followed 24/7."

dobs108

I know we have all camps, those who basically say catch me if you can, others who say I have the right to do things unless caught by a human, and then some who insist if I don't know about it, you can't hold me to it.

I was pulled over for 52 in a 25. No joke, the road itself "seems" like it's a 45 mph road, so 7 over is not that bad. The fact that I did not know the speed limit is 25 is my fault, not someone else's. Good thing it was a trooper and not a camera, because I was given a warning. But again, it's my responsibility.

In today's Newsday (no link because Newsday.com is a pay site) the Nassau legislature minority is proposing legislation that would put a "when flashing" sign at every school speed camera location. When the speed camera is in operation yellow flashing lights would be on. Hours of operation would be limited to 7 AM - 6PM.

In my opinion, because it is from the minority, this has no chance of passage. On the other hand voters have never been so enraged about any other issue than speed cameras.

Speed cameras went up quickly because ATS was footing the bill. Yellow flashing lights will cost money. I estimate tens of thousands of dollars for each school because underground conduit and wiring has to be run from the school to the signs and the speed camera. The responsibility for signs is with the local towns and villages. Each school would require a resolution to be passed for the "when flashing" arrangement.

I approve this proposal since the speed cameras would really work. Any driver who would receive a ticket has only himself to blame.

dobs108

The money generated from those cameras will FAR cover the cost of the light installations... Just have to get the cash magnets in the county legislature to give it up!

The red light camera at Veteran's Highway and Johnson Avenue has been removed. This is the entrance to Islip MacArthur Airport. It has been reported.

dobs108

Verizon Fios1 News video on the proposal in the Nassau County Legislature to provide drivers with prior notice of school speed limits being in effect -

http://www.fios1news.com/longisland/node/66236#.U_0U4_ldXc8

Cablevision News 12 Long Island has the same story, but they are a pay site, so no link.

dobs108

Because there are school zone speed limit signs that say "When Lights Flashing" but the money-sucking county is having the cameras issue tickets 24/7, regardless of lights flashing or not. In August the county issued over 6 figures of violations which it is now rescinding.

Otherwise, what is the definition of when school is in session, or when tickets will be issued? Does a community group using the school count? Does the custodian cleaning the school at night count?

Due process requires reasonable notice. Both have been lacking so far.

http://data.newsday.com/long-island/data/nassau/speed-camera...

Since I recently got a Speed-Camera ticket in the mail in Nassau, I was very happy to see that the county says that those tickets can be ripped-off or like in my case(I already paid the ticket), that my money will be reimbursed. I will be checking my mail, not for a ticket, but for a check. (keeping my fingers crossed too)

I am glad your ticket will be cancelled.

dobs108

bsp131, thanks for the link!

dobs108

We have received official confirmation that school zone speed limit signs in New York State MUST have the following configuration from top to bottom. The time of day must be included. These are typical values. The local government decides what the actual speed limit and time of day is:

"School"
"Speed Limit 25 MPH"
"School Days"
"7AM - 6PM"

The only exception to the time of day would be, "When Flashing," where flashing yellow lights have been provided. When they are on, the speed limit is in effect. Nassau County is looking at installing "When Flashing" at all speed camera locations. I endorse that initiative.

50% of the school zones in Nassau County do not meet this requirement. Please complain to local government if signs are substandard. Nassau County and the schools are not responsible for the signs. Complain to the townships of Oyster Bay, Hempstead, or North Hempstead, or the local villages such as the Village of Hempstead, East Hills, New Hyde Park etc.

dobs108

I can't wait till the Bus companies and the access-a-ride companies get numerous tickets in these zones.. I just wished that the counties monitored and enforced these cameras and kept the fees in house instead of farming it out of state.. I bet all the teachers and principal get a few and bitch to the county to dismiss them... Oh, where is the millions of dollars that the county is collecting go? Wait till that gets out and the angry mob goes ballistic..

The following fixed speed cameras have been found -

East Meadow High School, 101 Carman Ave., East Meadow

Chatterton School, 108 Merrick Ave., Merrick

Lynbrook North Middle School, 529 Merrick Rd., Lynbrook

This completes the "official" Nassau County list of fixed speed cameras ready to operate the week of September 2nd. All will be in the POI Factory Speed Camera file.

dobs108

Newsday has printed the following official list of Nassau County mobile speed camera locations -

Albany Avenue Elementary School, 101 N. Albany Ave., Farmingdale

Franklin School, 335 S. Franklin St., Hempstead

Howard T. Herber Middle School, 75 Ocean Ave., Malverne

Oceanside High School, 3160 Skillman Ave., Oceanside

Valley Stream Central High School, 135 Fletcher Ave., Valley Stream

These actually are "mobile" so there is no guarantee the camera will be there or it could be at some location not listed.

The small white van is parked on one side of the street but it is issuing tickets for both directions of travel.

dobs108

The "official" Nassau County list of fixed speed cameras ready for operation the week of September 8th:

Please watch for camera installation at these locations -

Howitt School, 70 Vancott Ave., Farmingdale - withdrawn by Nassau County 9/3/14

Glen Cove High School, 150 Dosoris Lane, Glen Cove - no camera 9/6/14

Mattlin Middle School, 100 Washington Ave., Plainview - withdrawn by Nassau County 9/3/14

Paul D. Schreiber Senior High School, 101 Campus Dr., Port Washington - no camera 9/6/14

Great Neck North Middle School, 77 Polo Road, Great Neck -
No fixed camera was found 9/6/14, but the 20 mph school speed zone on Arrandale Avenue between Polo Road and 1/4 mile west of Polo Road is marked with the Nassau County warning sign, "Speed Enforced by Photo/Video." It is possible a mobile speed camera may be there.

Three on the list in Glen Cove, Port Washington, and Great Neck are ill-suited to speed camera installation because they are isolated away from the main road. Other speed camera locations rely on heavy traffic unrelated to the school, speeding through the school zone.

dobs108

The "official" lists of speed camera locations provided by Nassau County and printed in Newsday have been found to have good information overall, but after inspecting the actual locations, the lists have been found to be lacking in accuracy and completeness.

dobs108

At different times, Nassau officials have said the speed cameras will ONLY be operating between 7 AM and 6 PM school days, OR, at any time from 1/2 hour before to 1/2 hour after "school activities" in accordance with state law. Which is it? After the summer speed camera fiasco who do you trust?

Today, Labor Day, I drove past Schreiber Senior High School on Campus Drive in Port Washington. The athletic fields were full of students! This qualifies as "student activities."

Do you see where this is going? Nassau officials will be aware of student activities while drivers have no way of knowing.

dobs108

The speed cameras become operational today so follow the posted signs.

The speed camera in Greenvale, 3 Glen Cove Road, Harbor Hill School, 1/4 mile south of 25A, has a problem.

There are no school speed limit signs and no school signs of any kind, so drivers don't know that a school is there. It is far back from the road with many trees. The ordinary speed limit southbound is 40 mph and northbound 30 mph.

It is likely the Village of East Hills never passed a resolution for a school speed limit because no children ever walk or bike to school there. That is the law. There are no sidewalks and no shoulder on the 4-lane road. The terrain next to the roadway is not walkable.

We are left with a situation that entraps drivers. Today I called Nassau County and they said that the camera is not live but they don't know why. Are we to trust their say-so? Emails were sent to the County Executive and Legislators.

Call and email your public officials!

dobs108

Seaford High School has legal school speed limit signs of 20 mph on Seamans Neck Road.

Route 135, the Seaford-Oyster Bay Expressway, is nearby. At northbound exit 3, to route 105, the exit ramp goes to a stop sign on Seamans Neck Road inside the school speed zone near the speed camera.

Drivers see an exit ramp speed limit sign of 20 mph. There is no school speed limit sign or school sign. The result is that drivers leaving the exit ramp never see a school speed limit sign before or after passing the speed camera.

Signs on Seamans Neck Road are placed by the Town of Hempstead but the exit ramp is a state road. Nassau County has taken the position that school speed limit signs are not their responsibility so they have activated this speed camera in spite of the missing sign.

Nassau County has not announced that they are working with the local towns and villages to correct illegal situations like this. The longer this exists the more money they will make.

dobs108

But it's all about safety. How could this be? Don't they WANT drivers to know what the speed limit is? Or would that cut into profits too much?

Nassau traffic officials have said today that school speed camera tickets are only being issued at locations where school speed limit signs meet New York State standards.

The sign must say "School" over a speed limit sign. Below that it must say "School Days" and it must have the time of day the speed limit is in effect. The optional alternate for the bottom sign would be "When Flashing." When yellow flashing lights are on, the speed limit is in effect.

A sign is required at the downstream end of the school speed zone with the usual speed limit for that road. If the end sign is missing no one would know where the school speed zone ends.

The local town or village decides whether a school speed limit is necessary, the specific speed limit, and the hours it is in effect. They are also responsible for posting the signs or replacing missing signs.

dobs108

My local community Facebook page has been lit up with complaints of the traffic jams around the school now. Most people are now driving at or under the 25MPH speed limit and it is wreaking havoc. Just goes to show that a good idea in principle, school speed zones, can have consequences that reverberate throughout an area. I am waiting for Suffolk to start its enforcement as there is one school I am sure will be getting a camera and it is a terrible zone. A four lane highway with a regular 30MPH speed and a 20MPH school zone speed. Problem is that highway is identical to NY-27A and NY-109 which have 40MPH zones and which is the natural "feel" for that road. I drove there on Wednesday at 20MPH and it is just about impossible to drive that slow. Perhaps when the cameras are installed people will become more observant but I was getting hammered by cars passing by me and around me. And I was obeying the law - the zone was active with flashing lights.

That's right! When driving at 20 I have to watch the speedometer at all times!

dobs108

Alternatively, were there to be a serious accident involving a child in a school zone, social media would light up with calls for action to protect the children.

Bet that a lot of the posts were done by people who were actively driving in those traffic jams.

The school Aardvark is speaking of provides school buses for all students, but the majority of students are nevertheless driven to school by parents. Add to that the high-school seniors driving and teachers driving and the inadequate roads into that area and you have a hopeless traffic jam.

There have been no reports of any accidents, but if there were to be a "serious accident involving a child in a school zone," odds are it would involve someone else driving to school in a traffic jam, not from excessive speed.

The people driving to school are paying too much attention to the speed camera. They weren't speeding before and now they are driving too slowly. In my opinion that makes the speed camera a safety hazard.

Those concerned with the safety of children would do well to enforce a requirement that students use the buses provided rather than install a speed camera.

dobs108

If you think Nassau County drivers have been motivated to act since speed cameras were introduced, wait 'til the PTA parents get ahold of this issue! The traffic jams were full of PTA members and they were just seething with anger! No politician can withstand the wrath of the PTA!

dobs108

I think you misspelled the word there. Shouldn't there be an I in PTA?

I have not found any new fixed speed cameras being installed since the County Executive dismissed $2.4 million in tickets about three weeks ago. Five speed camera locations were declared to be ready for use the week of Sept 8th but 9/14/14 no cameras were found.

dobs108

Today's Newsday reports (sorry no link since Newsday.com is a pay site) that the County Executive is dismissing speed camera tickets issued last week (Sept 2nd - 6th) if the school zone speed limit signs did not meet state standards which are outlined further up on this page. About half the locations in Nassau County do not. He is ordering county workers to upgrade the signs even though it is the responsibility of local towns and villages.

This is happening because Newsday has questioned Nassau officials about the inadequate signs not meeting state law. Where did Newsday find out about this issue? Believe it or not, right here!

dobs108

Why does farmingdale have 2 school zone speeding cameras?

Howitt Middle School and Albany Ave Elementary??

I contacted Nassau County and they stated there is one speed camera per school district but if there are different districts within one town, multiple cameras are allowed.

In Farmingdale both schools are in the same district.

An example of two districts would be Merrick. There are two speed cameras close together on Merrick Avenue but one is in the Merrick School District and the other is in North Merrick.

dobs108

That is a good question! There should not be two schools in the Farmingdale district with speed cameras.

dobs108

The speed camera is listed as having only ONE location in Farmingdale according to the newsday speed zone map.(Albany Ave)

I'll take a ride by Howitt and see if they removed it.

Just drove by and it IS still there. Hmmmm

PS..just got off the phone with Nassau county traffic safety in mineola and the woman who answered the phone said indeed it is to be one camera per school district and she's unaware that there are two in farmingdale.

Today the County insists this is a legal situation even though the exit ramp has no school speed limit signs. I wonder if they even went there to look at it, or if they did, whether they sent a competent traffic engineer who knows the law.

Newsday has been notified about the problem at this location.

dobs108

Nassau officials have said they would post the locations of speed cameras on their website. Up to today, they have never been posted. Alternately they have been posted on the Newsday website. (Sorry - no link because Newsday.com is a pay site) There have been so many changes on the Newsday list that we don't know what to believe.

Today, 9/9/14, on Newsday.com, Albany Avenue School is a mobile speed camera site and Howitt Middle School is not listed, although it has been listed as a fixed speed camera in the past.

catseyepub was at Howitt today 9/9/14 and found a fixed speed camera. It is clear that Nassau officials do not know that these two schools are in the same district and that Nassau is in violation of the speed camera law passed this spring.

Edit: Today 9/13/14 no fixed camera was found at Howitt Middle School in Farmingdale, only the Nassau County warning signs. If one mobile speed camera were to switch between Albany Avenue and Howitt, that would be legal.

dobs108

The Westbury Village Board has approved the change in speed limit from 15 to 20 mph on Maple Avenue in front of St. Brigid School. Residents testified that the speed camera caused traffic to shift to parallel streets in this high-end residential neighborhood.

dobs108

Well, then, this whole brouhaha seems to have highlighted several long-standing cases of below-standards, improperly posted school zones throughout Nassau County. How have the children survived until now?? Oh, the horror! Where has the Nassau County government been until now?? It seems they only really care about deficient signage when it effects the County's take from cameras.

Recent events in the District of Columbia have cast doubt on the accuracy of speed cameras installed by ATS (American Traffic Solutions), the same contractor as in Nassau County.

The Inspector General there has issued a report available for download, which has revealed that the ATS radar speed sensor is a low-tech device that cannot tell which vehicle is speeding if several are within range. The choice is made by human evaluation of video or still pictures using low-tech methods.

I thought that the speed camera would be a reliable piece of equipment whose technology alone would prove the guilt of the violator. Now I can see that it relies too much on human judgement.

Credit for discovering this information goes to jgermann of POI Factory -

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/43366

See the actual report from the Inspector General. The discussion and images of multiple vehicles begins on pdf page 50 (page 31 in print) -

http://app.oig.dc.gov/news/view2.asp?url=release10%2FPATE_fi...

dobs108

I have not found any new fixed speed cameras being installed since the County Executive dismissed $2.4 million in tickets about three weeks ago. Five speed camera locations were declared to be ready for use the week of Sept 8th and five more for the week of Sept 15th but on 9/14/14 no new cameras were found.

dobs108

I drove by one of those schools in Nassau and it took me 1hr 25 min to go through the zone.. This is going to backfire big time..

Newsday, today (Fair Use):

"Speed cameras will begin operating Monday in five new school districts, bringing Nassau County's total to 23 fixed and mobile camera locations as it continues its rollout of the controversial new program.

John Marks, executive director of Nassau's Traffic and Parking Violations Agency, said the cameras will come online methodically each week, after first ensuring that proper signage is in place and that necessary permits are obtained from towns and villages. Cameras are expected to be in place at all 56 school districts by the end of the year.

"We are trying to get it done correctly," Marks said.

The new fixed camera locations operating this week are at Island Trees Memorial Middle School in Levittown, Cantiague Elementary School in Jericho, Gen. Douglas MacArthur High School in Levittown, Harbor Hill School in Greenvale and West Hempstead High School.

In addition, mobile cameras will be placed outside Harold D. Fayette Elementary School in North Merrick, Plainedge Middle School in Plainedge and Oceanside Senior High School in Oceanside. Each of those three sites had mobile cameras operating in July and August.

That summer pilot program sparked numerous complaints from motorists who said they were not told the cameras were operating. Last month, Nassau County Executive Edward Mangano dismissed 39,915 tickets carrying $2.4 million in fines generated during the summer months after some cameras malfunctioned or became operational prematurely, resulting in 9,807 citations issued in error.

Since only one camera is legally allowed to operate in a district at any given time, Nassau will not activate a fixed camera this week at Camp Avenue Elementary School in North Merrick or at Schwarting Elementary School in Plainedge. Nassau does not have a fixed camera in Oceanside and has moved a mobile camera to various schools in the district since the program began.

Meanwhile, a fixed camera at Our Lady of Mercy Elementary School in Hicksville will operate Monday through Wednesday, while a mobile camera will be used Thursday and Friday at Dutch Lane Elementary School in Hicksville.

The moves, Marks said, came after individual school districts asked for mobile cameras to be placed at the schools because of speeding and safety concerns. The state law authorizing the speed cameras allows the county to periodically switch between mobile units and fixed cameras at different sites in a school district.

Mobile cameras that previously operated in Farmingdale, Hempstead, Malverne, Valley Stream, Glen Cove, Great Neck, Plainview-Old Bethpage and Port Washington will not be active next week. Marks said that in many cases, the mobile cameras were operating in those locations on a trial basis.

Legis. Judith Jacobs (D-Woodbury) said alternating between fixed and mobile cameras in a district is unfair and confusing to motorists.

"For the life of me, I don't know which cameras are operating and which are not," said Jacobs, who, like all 19 county lawmakers, voted for the cameras. "It's creating confusion and uncertainty with the public. I just don't understand the thought process." Marks said he had "no sympathy" for those concerns. "I don't believe it's necessary for people to follow the law only because a camera is there," he said. "The answer is to follow the speed limit in school zones."

The cameras generally operate from 7 a.m. until 6 p.m., although times may vary slightly at some locations. Violators must pay $80 in fines and fees."

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/5-nassau-school-di...

Island Trees Middle School, Harbor Hill School, West Hempstead High School, Camp Avenue Elementary School, and Schwarting Elementary School are not new locations. They have been in the file for several weeks. Judge Marks has lost track of old and new cameras.

dobs108