Bye-bye Garmin?
 |
14 years
|
So, I've been using Garmin for about 15 years. For the most part I've been happy with them--good products, somewhat reasonable prices, decent customer service.
The downsides have been agonizingly slow software updates, outrageously spendy map updates (with a ridiculously complicated map update processes designed to protect their map profits at the expense of ease of use for the customer) and software "crippling" for less expensive models to "entice" you to buy more expensive GPS units.
IMHO, map updates should be free--the data doesn't cost them anything and is taxpayer funded. Maybe a one-time fee for lifetime map updates, but the updates go with the USER not the GPS unit...it would cost us less and help drive brand loyalty.
The software "crippling" is just blatant greed. Once the software is written, it's just as easy to put it onto one unit as it is another. If you want to charge premium prices for higher end units, impress us with HARDWARE, not software....
So, now that I finally got a smartphone, I may be saying goodbye to Garmin.
My Samsung Prevail cost $180. It has not one but two FREE navigation apps, free lifetime map updates (via Google Maps) free street-view features, a complete voice-activated menu (Garmin's touch pad for entering addresses, POI's, etc is SOOOO tedious.....) it's integrated with my browser so if I Google a store from my Droid and then want to go there I just give it the voice command. On top of all that, I don't have to worry about my GPS BT pairing with my phone, my gps IS my phone. $50 a mo for unlimited calls, unlimited text, unlimited data, unlimited long distance.
Not only that but you also have access to the Android Marketplace where there are TONS of GPS related apps to use, most free and some paid. No more agonizingly long waits for Garmin to update their OS and open-source code to encourage innovation.
Right out of the box, my Prevail does 85% of what my Garmin 765 does with FREE apps, and with an open-source app store there are tons of developers that are sure to fill any gaps in performance and features.
Speaking of performance, one of my pet peeves with Garmin is that if I'm in a large parking lot (i.e. Mall, airport, etc.) and I choose a route, Garmin NEVER routes me out of the parking lot--it takes waaaaay too long to get me oriented. In a busy city with lots of one-way streets, you need to know NOW which way to go. My smart phone aquires a full signal very quickly via aGPS, and the Google navigation app directs me right from the get go....It's really kind of ridiculous that these new apps are besting Garmin at their own game with vastly superior software and free maps--after all navigation is all Garmin does and they should be the best at it......
Anyway, I can't see myself spending any more money on a separate Garmin GPS unit. When my Nuvi 765 dies, that will more than likely be my last PND. My smart phone does almost everything the Nuvi does and does it faster, smarter, and cheaper--AND it's a great phone too!! Now when I travel I just have to bring my phone and my suction-cup Bracketron mount, and I'm good to go.
I can't say I feel sorry for Garmin, they had it too good for too long, and now they may soon be obsolete.
NP
dont know
I dont have a smart phone, dont care to have one, dont need one. I am retired, dont have to have a smaert phone plugged into my ear, if you want to leave your garmin behind that is up to you. but CAN you add poi files to the smart phone. like you can with the nuvi, play music. all day long. and listen to jill talk to you when you make a turn.
Jerry...Jacksonville,Fl Nüvi1450,Nuvi650,Nuvi 2495 and Mapsource.
|
but CAN you add poi files to the smart phone.
Depends on the app - a few are capable. Garmin's app presently is not.
*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone6 + Navigon*
Android has a power control
HowardZ, Android has a power control widget included with it. Long-press the screen and you should have the option to add widgets. Find the power control widget and stick it on the screen.
The widget has the option to turn on/off the following: WiFi, bluetooth, GPS, data synchronization, and auto-brightness.
Using this, I shut off the GPS until needed, which is virtually never unless I'm using Layar. Battery life sees a significant improvement.
_______________________________________
To the poster asking about using OpenStreetMap maps, yes you can, but you lose the ability to route by addresses because the OSM maps don't have that data embedded within them. In fact, for the OsmAnd app for Android to do the routing it has to download the information and store it on the phone. I deleted OsmAnd when I found that the whole of North America along with its routing data was 5GB in size.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams
You need to explorer the
You need to explorer the Trapster settings before saying things like that.If you use it's default settings it will keep working in the background, useful if you're using another app. If you hit "back" you will notice that the GPS icon goes away, and you can always just use it's menu to exit the app.
It's like leaving the stove on and going on vacation.
Easy!
I put the Trapster app on my wife's Droid.
Next morning her battery was dead.
She had to take it off her desktop.
Seems this is the only way to keep the internal GPS powered off - to prevent the battery from wearing down.
So, she never ever got a chance to use Trapster.
I can see plugging the phone into the car's cigarette lighter for power when using a GPS application. But, it does not seem simple to turn off the GPS App and GPS.
I see this as a major problem with GPS Apps for smartphones. Got to have a simple easy way to turn the APP and internal GPS off.
On my Prevail it's super easy to turn the GPS off! Push "Settings", then "location" then "GPS off."
It is true that using the GPS feature on a cell phone runs the battery down--I think more from the screen being active than from the GPS receiver. Just plug in your smartphone to the car charger and you're good to go!
NP
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...
smart phone
well he was paying for phone anyhow.. so saving money by not buying garmin..
i agree it took 3 years for my garmin to update a local road that was heavily traveled...
ORnonprophet wrote: $50 a mo
$50 a mo for unlimited calls, unlimited text, unlimited data, unlimited long distance.
NP
I don't want to weigh in on the debate of which is better, GPS or smartphone, but where do you sign up for unlimited data, text & calls for $50 a month? You mentioned BOOST but I can't find it.
-Garmin Nuvi 760 & 765T-
Found BOOST
but are there anywhere else?
-Garmin Nuvi 760 & 765T-
There are others....
Sprint, Cricket, ATT, T-mobile, Virgin, Metro PCS, and Verizon all have unlimited plans now, but I think Boost is still the cheapest. They also have something called "shrinkage" which means that with every 6 months of on time payments your bill drops $5 a month--i.e. after 18 months your bill would only be $35 a month for unlimited everything! ($35 a mo. is the lowest it goes...)
FWIW, I'm fairly picky with whom I do business and I can say that Boost has really been great! Their coverage is great, their customer service is great, and you can do just about anything you need (pay your bill, switch phones, etc.) on their website.
I'll NEVER sign another cell phone contract again--once you're locked in there's no incentive for good customer service until about 2 months before your contract expires and their "cancellation fees" are nothing short of outrageous!
I've used several other pre-paid providers and Boost has been the best one by FAR.
NP
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...
OMG
Just peaked at this thread again. It's growing geometrically! It's growing like a yeast population. It needs to be stopped or it will take over the world.
NUVI 660, Late 2012 iMac, Macbook 2.1 Fall 2008, iPhone6 , Nuvi 3790, iPad2
Smart phones cost much more
Seems GPS's are still way cheaper since there is no service.
http://plans.boostmobile.com/planhub.aspx
$50 a mo for unlimited calls, unlimited text, unlimited data, unlimited long distance.
NP
I don't want to weigh in on the debate of which is better, GPS or smartphone, but where do you sign up for unlimited data, text & calls for $50 a month? You mentioned BOOST but I can't find it.
http://plans.boostmobile.com/planhub.aspx
10 seconds flat!
Virgin Mobile, $25.00 a month.
but are there anywhere else?
Virgin Mobile, $25.00 a month.
smartphone
My smartphone Droid X with Google Maps is a very good back up GPS unit with some cool features for occasional use but in no way replaces the Garmin for everyday use.
I tried it and it just was to frustrating and when a call comes in you effectively loose navigation.
Actually, I've come to realize some of the shortcomings of using the Droid X as a gps. I think the more you use the Droid, the more there will probably be things that are less convenient with it as a primary gps. When the nuvi 660 touchscreen went bad last week, I ordered a new 2350LMT. I could have lost sleep over justifying the $179 expense, but lifetime maps and ad-supported traffic, I just went with it...so when push came to shove I still wanted a traditional gps
Research
but are there anywhere else?
Virgin Mobile, $25.00 a month.
The Virgin Mobile $25 a mo. plan only includes 300 mins of talk time. Their unlimited plan is $60 a mo, Boost's unlimited plan is only $50 and you can get it lowered to only $35 a mo by enrolling in their "shrinkage" plan.
Both carriers are now owned by Sprint and are using the Sprint network. Boost regularly wins the top pre-paid phone company surveys, and their phone options for prepaid are also the best.
NP
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...
It's coming.....
My smartphone Droid X with Google Maps is a very good back up GPS unit with some cool features for occasional use but in no way replaces the Garmin for everyday use.
I tried it and it just was to frustrating and when a call comes in you effectively loose navigation.
Actually, I've come to realize some of the shortcomings of using the Droid X as a gps. I think the more you use the Droid, the more there will probably be things that are less convenient with it as a primary gps. When the nuvi 660 touchscreen went bad last week, I ordered a new 2350LMT. I could have lost sleep over justifying the $179 expense, but lifetime maps and ad-supported traffic, I just went with it...so when push came to shove I still wanted a traditional gps
I think the Navigon and Co-pilot apps are a strong step in the right direction where you're actually installing the maps on the phone (just like a GPS) so you don't have to worry about being out of cell range. I also just heard today that Google's next map update will give users the option of caching user-identified parameters for the maps i.e. you could cache the entire state you'll be traveling in or 100 miles in either direction of your planned route etc. Given Google's breakthrough vector compression software, this wouldn't require much space at all on your Droid--though most Droids accept micro SDHC cards up to 32gigs and Garmin's whole N. America map is less than 4 gigs.....
I just noticed that Garmin now has an app for iPhones (Street Pilot) hopefully one for Android will be coming out that will allow users to use Googles free maps!
NP
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...
Proper placement
I decided to run the Droid on it's windshield mount along with the Garmin. It was summer (August) and pretty warm outside with the sun beating down on the windshield. I had the Droid connected to the cigarette lighter plug (with a Motorola/Verizon cable, not 3rd party) and after about 30-40 minutes of continuous use, I noticed that the charge light had gone out and the Droid battery was nearly dead.
I removed the phone from the windshield mount, and nearly dropped it, as it was incredibly hot. Apparently the phone got so hot that the charging circuitry shut down. I held the phone in front of the air conditioning vent, cooled it down, and the charge indicator came back on. After it cooled down, I put it back in the windshield mount. 30-40 minutes later, same issue.
So it would appear, that as good as the Google navigation may be, the phone is incapable of running with GPS active for extended periods of time, rendering it useless for long trips.
Would be easy to mount the Droid out of direct sunlight and still get a good, strong signal. I've been using mine now every day all day for 10 days straight--never had a single problem, shut-down, nada. Just like any GPS, a Droid needs to be plugged in, but saying a Droid is "useless for long trips" just isn't accurate.....
NP
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...
It's already having a BIG impact.....
While I agree with the fact that Google has changed the rules of the game, I don't believe you will see price reductions in the way you think. What you will see is what Garmin has already done in response to Google: bundle lifetime maps, traffic, or both with their GPS receivers. And that is a fact.
Well, it has already had a dramatic impact on Garmin's map and traffic pricing!
As little as 2 years ago, Garmin was charging $99 for ONE UPDATE, and lifetime map update were $149 and up. Traffic data/service was even more--unless you wanted the FM version with ads.
After Google, the difference in cost between a LMT and LT model is only $40--which basically means that lifetime maps now only cost $40 when a very short time ago it was $149 or more (less if you got a special deal i.e. Amazon around Xmas time).
Like I said, Google entering the GPS market will only serve to help consumers, and that's a good thing!!!
NP
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...
looking forward to it
I also just heard today that Google's next map update will give users the option of caching user-identified parameters for the maps i.e. you could cache the entire state you'll be traveling in or 100 miles in either direction of your planned route etc.
Looking forward to this feature. My droid x got a trial by fire because the nuvi 660 suddenly stopped working, and it didn't do well in that specific case...which is why I got a new 2350LMT. But I look forward to the day when the smartphone is better all around (not good for people holding grmn)!
Droid Overheating
NP
The issue with my (original) Droid was that it simply overheated (in or out of the sun) when plugged in and using Google Nav (ie GPS) on a continuous basis. When it overheated, the charging circuit (app ?) shut down so that the battery drained quite quickly.
Maybe my Droid is defective... but that was my experience on a couple of trips before I gave up.
I use it for short trips to get places, but do not trust it for a day (or longer) trip.
-hjrw
AAA
This thread has me thinking that I will switch to carbon-based AAA hardware. The maps and updates are free (they even mail them to you for free). There is even a hardware version that routes my trip and has POI's (TripTik). Why, there's even a POI book! The software is user supplied, so it is fairly reliable. If it fails, and I drive into a lake or some such, AAA will come bail me out (just like they'll bail me out with a traffic violation bond). All this for one low annual fee!
PS: I guess there's still a cell phone coverage issue for the bailout, though. No signal, no rescue. But, my maps are signal-independent.
.
@ORnonprophet
Each to his/her own. The debate will never be solved.
What I have right now works for me. What others have works for them. In a few years....who knows what I might have. We all have our reasons and our opinions.
I'm a separates guy, myself, but I do see OP ORnonprophet's point. Garmin is not adapting to the shifting marketplace. Now maybe they couldn't do that and survive, either, but not trying to adapt at all is equally risky when it comes to electronics. I do think the points OP raises represent a threat to the viability of Garmin in the medium term. Right now, more people are piling into smartphones and apps than into standalone GPS.
JMoo On
The Satellite Overlays are stunning!
well he was paying for phone anyhow.. so saving money by not buying garmin..
i agree it took 3 years for my garmin to update a local road that was heavily traveled...
Yes, not only do we get very quick map updates, but free the Google Nav program allows you to add a "satellite layer" which means that your map now becomes the actual satellite images for where your traveling! Rivers, lakes, building, etc it's all their in living color!!
NP
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...
They just not as good as
They just not as good as back in the 350 days
bye bye?
i see both sides to the argument, cheaper to have a gps but on the other hand why not have an all in 1 device.
I agree...
I will say this. Competition will only force all navigation devices to improve or they will become obsolete. In the end we will end up with better service/units. This will force gamin to improve or else.
This is one of the best ways (or maybe the only way) to force companies like Garmin either finally improve quality of their products, (especially software) or, they will gradually get out of business...
vk
we have a winner
Frside007 didn't miss the point. There are hidden costs to having free GPS on a smartphone, and that is something that cannot be ignored.
Yes, you got a free GPS included in your smartphone. But Google Navigation and the GPS receiver within the smartphone both need data. The GPS uses data to pinpoint your location a lot more quickly than without it (something I've tested). Google Navigation itself downloads map tiles to your computer based upon the route you're taking. That requires data.
In Android, you can put the phone into airplane mode and then turn on the WiFI. That will solve the problem of getting the data at the beginning of your trip, since you likely have WiFi in your house. However what happens if you encounter an unexpected detour on your route? If Google cannot download new data, you're out of luck.
The point of the matter is that your free GPS isn't as free as you think it is. It's tied to the Internet and requires data to use it to its full potential. That is why there are a batch of standalone GPS apps in the Android Market. The companies offering these apps know that on-the-fly downloads of map tiles are a weakness and not a strength.
Arguably the best alternative is Copilot. For $5 you get the whole of the US. For $15, you get the US and Canada, with the free map updates you want. However, you have a smartphone, and if you are on a monthly plan, you still have to have a data plan. That is where the hidden cost of ownership comes into play. Because you still have to pay that minimum of $15/month over and above your voice plan simply because you have a smartphone. $360* over the course of two years is enough to buy two nüvi 1300LM GPS receivers from Garmin, each with lifetime map updates and the ability to easily add custom POI files.
Google Navigation doesn't do it "better". It does it "differently". For you, it's clear that you're convinced that smartphone GPS is ready to replace the dedicated GPS receiver. I believe Google Navigator and smartphone GPS apps in general are good as backup units in case of a problem with a dedicated GPS receiver, but are not going to take over the duties of a dedicated GPS receiver anytime soon.
*In my case, $720 over the lifetime of a cell phone contract because of having an unlimited data plan. But I also knew what I was getting into.
pretty much sums it up
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .
Google's next map update will give users the option of caching
My smartphone Droid X with Google Maps is a very good back up GPS unit with some cool features for occasional use but in no way replaces the Garmin for everyday use.
I tried it and it just was to frustrating and when a call comes in you effectively loose navigation.
Actually, I've come to realize some of the shortcomings of using the Droid X as a gps. I think the more you use the Droid, the more there will probably be things that are less convenient with it as a primary gps. When the nuvi 660 touchscreen went bad last week, I ordered a new 2350LMT. I could have lost sleep over justifying the $179 expense, but lifetime maps and ad-supported traffic, I just went with it...so when push came to shove I still wanted a traditional gps
I think the Navigon and Co-pilot apps are a strong step in the right direction where you're actually installing the maps on the phone (just like a GPS) so you don't have to worry about being out of cell range. I also just heard today that Google's next map update will give users the option of caching user-identified parameters for the maps i.e. you could cache the entire state you'll be traveling in or 100 miles in either direction of your planned route etc. Given Google's breakthrough vector compression software, this wouldn't require much space at all on your Droid--though most Droids accept micro SDHC cards up to 32gigs and Garmin's whole N. America map is less than 4 gigs.....
I just noticed that Garmin now has an app for iPhones (Street Pilot) hopefully one for Android will be coming out that will allow users to use Googles free maps!
NP
Google maps has had saving maps locally for several months now, but it doesn't work that way. It only saves data from a route that you ran. You can't load a whole state unless you do it from many routes.
Garmin has had an iPhone app for more than a year or two, Apple doesn't have Google Nav so they decided to do it with iOS.Still no Android version, but now that the Garmin phone is considered a dud maybe they will do an Android version.
Garmin
I haven't found any single device that fills all my needs and have found having individual dedicated devices for my needs to be better for me.
Garmin units aren't perfect, but to me, they are the best out there at this point in time.
I just picked up a 3790t,
I just picked up a 3790t, and I'm more in the boat of phone + dedicated gps unit.
I've got a droid, which is nice, but the limited memory really prevents me from using more than music and nav while I drive; if I start traptster it will just crash my phone.
.
@ pratzert ....
Exactly, whenever you have something that is not single issue dedicated you give up something in the long run.
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .