No new garmins?

With Google maps and Waze I think Garmin may throw in the towel.

GM Impala and Malibu come with OnStar for a yearly fee of over $300 to have navigation. Forget it I'll continue to use Garmin.
And that doesn't really disappoint me as the Garmin is always mounted and comes on whenever the car is started. And I'm not really interested in looking at any other brand of car just ot see what navigation systems they have. GM gives me good discounts and service.

Even if Garmin reduces updating maps to once a year it will still be more accurate than car systems, and less expensive.

I'll hang on as long as possible, thank you.

I agree with Sussamb as well. I have yet to see an installed unit with the versatility of my 3597. Using Garmin's products I can plan routes for a multiday trip, display points of interest that are important to me and add or change my routing as needed. Most vehicle manufacturer units will not allow any change to the unit while moving nor will many allow the installation of custom poi. No, my 3597 will be a constant companion on trips with the built-in displaying a larger area.

Still a Garmin fan. I tried to like Google navigation via Android Auto, but it just doesn't measure up to my 3597.

GPS revenue for Garmin is a drop in the bucket.

Revenue and profits from Garmin's 'Auto' devices are definitely a lot more than just a drop in the bucket. However as expected, revenue and profits from Garmin's 'Auto' devices are dropping significantly.

Garmin needs to get with the program and make a decent smartphone app with similar features are their handheld pnd's. I'd gladly pay a reasonable price fee for such an app.

Viago as a great start ... now discontinued. I suspect the pricing/profit model Garmin has based their business on just doesn't fit the smartphone culture.

It may be time, when standalone devices will fade off from market and use. Sales are down, so profit is shrinking.

I think that probably next step for manufacturers will be built-in car units. Garmin has experience with marine and aviation industry. If only you have choice to buy reasonably priced map updates from device manufacturer (or map maker) they will get good traction. First GPS standalone devices had prices comparable to today's units but with way more usability.

I seriously doubt if the majority of new car buyers will even consider getting map updates. They just are not that interested in using a GPS the way we do.

I would even go so far as to say they will never use the GPS to plan out a trip. Point A to Point B for them is good enough. Nor will they have the map displayed all the time, that Infotainment center display is all about music.

Apple Play and Android Auto apps that make your car diaplay look like your phone is a waste of phone use in my opinion. If I have to have Google maps on my phone to be able to see it on the car display I might as well hang a tablet over the display and be done with it.

I actully laughed at the dealer sales rep when he said the reason they don't put a CD player in the cars anymore is becuase of the distraction. What? The Infotainment center is not a distraction? Really?

Nor will it work in remote areas that have no cell signal. People on this forum obviously "get it" but for most, they figure the phone is all they need. It's quite frustrating. I travel into mountainous regions in summer months and have no cell signal but the GPS (either Garmin or my Pioneer) continues along just fine because of the built in maps. I think Google Maps has the ability to download maps (or regions) to use offline but I doubt you can download the entire US. Not sure about that honestly but I would think that would be a fairly decent solution for using the phone only.

Nor will it work in remote areas that have no cell signal. People on this forum obviously "get it" but for most, they figure the phone is all they need. It's quite frustrating. I travel into mountainous regions in summer months and have no cell signal but the GPS (either Garmin or my Pioneer) continues along just fine because of the built in maps. I think Google Maps has the ability to download maps (or regions) to use offline but I doubt you can download the entire US. Not sure about that honestly but I would think that would be a fairly decent solution for using the phone only.

Downloading the whole of the US in Google Maps is not possible. Thus why I have Here installed and have all of North America downloaded.

But unfortunately, Here navigation is not supported on Android Auto. I wonder if any of the car built-in units are based on Here maps and navigation.

The salesman was correct. The manufacturer doesn't want their profits to be distracted by CD players, which probably saves $15-45 per car. Multiply that times the number of vehicles produced per year and you have quite a number of "distractions."

Is it not possible due to memory constraints or do they just limit the app to a region? I haven't used Google Maps in a long while.

@alandb: I didn't know that about Here. I don't have an infotainment system in my vehicle and thus don't have Android Auto. So, are there any GPS apps that actually work with Android Auto?

@Preroll: I believe it is both, but I am not 100% certain of it. The largest region I've attempted to generate encompasses all of Connecticut and Rhode Island, Massachusetts not including Cape Cod, and the lower 2/3ds of both Vermont and New Hampshire. Depending upon the cities in that region the file size varies. For example, including New York City causes the size to balloon from 505MB to 765MB.

... and then dropped it this year! I like the Android Navigon app and now it has been discontinued.

the problem with Garmin was they cut their own throats with free lifetime maps , no profit after the sale, and if it lasts 10 years ? free maps for two years might have helped keep the business going. but the free lifetime maps was their best selling point . it also contributed to no profit after the sale.
auto GPS dealers make their money charging for yearly map updates after the sale wither you do it once a every year or two.

Currently the only to navigation apps supported on Android Auto are Google and Waze. I have not tried Waze, bur Google navigation seems like 5 steps backwards compared to my nuvi 3597.

Agreed. My wife's Android Auto uses Google maps and isn't a patch on my garmins

Except from 1997 up until around 2010 or 2011 they were in fact charging for map updates, and people were buying. So I don't buy Garmin "cutting its throat" with the free map updates. I think the inclusion of free map updates was an indicator of two things. The first is Garmin diversifying itself and structuring its business to reduce reliance on the automotive GPS. The second was Garmin reacting to Google. In 2009 Google released its navigation system as a beta, with the full release available in 2010 on smartphones for the price of zero.

Garmin maintained its dominance even with smartphone GPS, and offering free updates did not appreciably hurt its bottom line, as Garmin slowly refocused on the areas where it could be competitive and branched out into new areas. Google may have changed the game with Google Maps Navigation, but its the car manufacturers including GPS systems in their infotainment systems that killed the standalone automotive GPS receiver. Garmin's reaction to Google is what will help it survive when other standalone GPS manufacturers may end up hurting or dead.

I think that is a bad statement and terrible idea. My iphone's GPS does not work when I'm out of data range, which is in a lot of places in Maine and when we went to Canada we had no data and no GPS. Why would I want to use my phone any way? The interface is terrible and I can't save my waypoints, log GPX files, etc.

What percentage of potential iPhone users are ever in an area that is out of data range? I suspect not enough to be concerned about.

Indeed. Despite the population of northern Maine being roughly 1 person for every two square miles, i.e. sparse, his sounds more like a carrier issue than a device issue.

There is no reason that a good navigation app can't have on-board maps and not require a data connection. Garmin had good apps with Viago and StreetPilot, but sadly discontinued them instead of improving them. I can understand why. I think it would be difficult to come up with a profitable business model for a premium app as long as Google offers their inferior app for free.

What they should do is get rid of free updates and go to a subscription model. Maybe $99 a year for 3-4 updates a year. If the updates were sizable updates I'd gladly pay as I drive for a living. I do use google maps but it doesn't have some of the features I need but it does show new roads faster. The problem may be that they have accustomed people to the free updates and with the free apps out there worry that people won't pay for updates anymore and thus can't kill the free updates. I'm sure they've done some research into it so it will be interesting to see what happens over the next year or two.

The reason I believe those two apps were discontinued is that Copilot (iOS and Android) was more established in the smartphone space and performs the same functions. You have to pay in order to get all the features, but apparently CoPilot not only has the capability of using custom POIs, but it also has Junction View, according to the YouTube review of the app here (time indexed to when the Junction View shows up) from 2016. The only unknown is whether the junction views are stored on device or downloaded.

We use CoPilot as a check for the Garmin at times when the route seems strange or we want to take a different route and are looking for the right road to jump on to force the Garmin to plot a different course. We have used it off and on for years, not as intuitive as I would like when my wife is navigating. Got it originally because my wife had a hard time figuring out where on a paper map we were so she could make suggestions.

The built-in GPS comes in higher end cars, so that leaves the lower end car owners to use a stand-alone GPSr. How big is that market? Who is the OEM supplier to the car companies?

So if we think that the built-in GPS has put the kibosh on standalone automotive units, why wouldn't Garmin keep the smartphone StreetPilot app alive? For the $50 or so, it's a great app with onboard maps to have with you all the time. It is up against all the free options such as Apple Maps, Google, Waze, HERE, and others.

It took me a while to transition from using a GPSMAP to the iOS StreetPilot app, but once I realized it was every bit as good and some ways better, it became the goto automotive nav app. So much that I'm bummed knowing that I'll have to go back to the GPSMAP or use Waze once iOS StreetPilot goes obsolete.

Vehicles in the 18,000 - 21,000USD range all have infotainment systems as an add-on. That of course means that some people will order a new vehicle without such a system, but the number of people going without I would say is negligible. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell exactly how many of a particular vehicle were ordered with such a system versus ones that weren't. The main takeaway from this is that the available pool of customers for Garmin is shrinking as cars get replaced.

Garmin's StreetPilot app is arguably great, and Viago had potential. Garmin also owns the Navigon brand, and thus Garmin had a Navigon-branded app available. The biggest problem however with Garmin is price. For example, the USA version of CoPilot is only $9.99, and at least to me it's easy to see why Garmin would discontinue their apps. CoPilot offers most of the same features found in a Garmin GPS, and does so at a fifth of the Garmin asking price. It's rather difficult to compete on features when the competition also has them, and Garmin simply cannot compete in terms of price.

StreetPilot was too expensive for the feature set it had compared to other paid apps in the same space, and that's why it died

@Strephon ... I think you are right about the marketability of higher priced premium navigation apps. My last shopping experience for a new car was one year ago (Sept. 2017). I was looking for a car under $30K. In that price range, I did not find that many cars in stock at local dealers in my area that had built-in navigation systems ... maybe one it 10. Since I live in a relatively rural state, it is possible that option just isn't as popular as it is in more urban settings.

I think you'll find that most people living in rural or remote areas just don't travel too far from home and simply have no need for a navigation system in their vehicle. They know where they are and where they are going, and know how to get there...because they've done it for years.

It's entirely possible. I live in New England, and it seems like everyone here with a reasonably new car has one if the vehicle had the option available. My car is a 2006 and was bought used, and thus my infotainment system is my Pixel 2 XL and a bluetooth FM transmitter. So there you go.

Looks like Garmin is definitely beefing up its presence in the wearable markets

The Garmin Introduces Instinct: a rugged smartwatch for outdoor activities

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/10/11/17965748/...

"Most people living in rural areas don't travel too far from home"

Wrong. THEY MUST TO GET ANYTHING AND ANYWHERE.

I've done numerous cross country trips, and I'm stunned at how much driving and travel rural folks do. I was chatted up by locals out west, Alaska, western Canada, etc. and they drive vast distances. I was at Glacier National Park and a woman sat next to us and asked where we were from, started a conversation. I asked how do the locals live out here, given the sparsity of stores. She said they drove >70 miles one-way to go grocery shopping. The list of errands and chores I get done in a day or half day (I'm in CT), takes folks out west in the rural areas a couple days because of all the driving they have to do, unless they do it all in one town. Forget emergency services. You are on your own. Better be healthy and never need an ambulance. I have a couple grocery stores within a couple miles, several within several miles. I was in North Dakota and chatted up some people I was near at an airshow. I asked how do they manage say if they have a plumbing issue, furnace problem, or need other tools, hardware, etc. They said they add it to the list and once a week or less often, they take the trip into town (hours away), depending on weather and such, for supplies and provisions. I pulled over at a rest area along the Ice Fields Parkway to rest and take in the sights. A car pulled up and two kids got out and started working on the car, they had mechanical issues. I'm handy and had plenty of tools, so I offered help and we chatted. They were locals. They only knew the vastness of the northern Canadian Rockies. It was completely normal for them to drive hours to get anywhere. I stopped at a visitor center in northern Canada and chatted with the girls there. They said the big thing to do was drive 5-6 hours one-way to some other town that had a shopping center on the weekends. And on these trips I was camping. I'd go into the grocery stores when I could and was stunned at the so-called produce departments. Just about non-existent. Only very sturdy fresh produce like potatoes and oranges. Otherwise, any other fruits and veggies are canned. Think about it... the population density is incredibly low. That population can not support the kinds, sizes and quantities of grocery stores we that live in population dense areas are used to. The distribution systems can't do it. It's not worth it at all, and the fresh food won't last, and the delivery orders will be so small, the distributors won't be able to make a buck given the distances and hours that must be traveled. Delivery costs are prohibitive.

Take a cross country trip through the remote, low population areas, it will be a shocker. I appreciate all the stores that I have nearby that I can choose from, and even price shop, that folks in the rural areas can't even imagine. To them, waiting a week or more for the regular trip of several hours into town is the normal way of life. Now I understand what people meant when they said if you see a gas station west of the Mississippi, fill up. You don't know when you'll see another one.

My hope is that they will stay in the auto hardware market as they move towards sortware. I think annual updates are over, but i can still see new devices every few years being profitable if they are already developing software for in dash units.

...they'll put in a 3hr battery in the 51/61 series and call it the 52/62 series. lol

Navigation just doesn’t measure up to a Garmin

interesting to see where Garmin goes. Most people I see no longer use dedicated GPS units, instead use their cell phone. But then again this is an urban area.

In my travels to locations with limited cell service I still see people using dedicated GPS units in their cars.

Having taken a recent drive across country I wouldn't want to rely on cell phone only nav in a car that doesn't have some type of GPS nav. Ran into more than a few locations were there was limited/no cell phone reception.

My wild guess is Garmin is pivoting to find new markets like the wearable (watch) type units that do more than just GPS. It would be nice to see them get into the embedded dash market somehow with some type of map app. Haven't been impressed with some of the dash units GPS feature that I've seen that come with newer cars.

For years ago I use to use Delorme Topo for all my navigating needs plus a Nuvi every once in a while. But then Garmin bought Delorme. Seems like they bought them then killed the project. I'm just waiting for the inreach program to be deleted soon. It was a sad day for me when DeLorme was gone. I think they had the best Topo software coupled with their Streets and Trips.

As for using the phone for dedicated trips. Not really useful when you need to use the phone and navigate at the same time. Plus the over heating thing too. My Nuzi has out lasted every summer heat wave vs my phone shutting down, now the wait for a reboot, re start waze, reinput he address after stating you a passenger, wait for navigate, pres the let's go..... I hope I didn't miss my turn in that time.

I often thought that Garmin never did any sort of market research, but simply came up with products on their own and then sent them out to the field. Kinda like throwing spaghetti on the wall to see if it sticks. They have had so many products, and so many discontinued products.

It's no different than Sansung or Apple (etc) coming out with a new Galaxy or iPhone smartphone every year. The old one works perfectly fine but everyone runs out to buy the latest and greatest. It's all about revenue and satisfying shareholders. Gamin lost out because the GPS and mapping got better and better so no need for most people to buy a standalone GPS. But, there's always us here that prefer standalones.

It will be a sad day when you can't buy a standalone GPS and a pocket camera because Smartphones have taken over the market even if they don't fill all our needs.

While everybody is complaining about the lack of auto support (the telematics and infotainment in many cars is still pretty lacking and ca be filled in with CarPlay and Android Auto integration), they really should possibly refocus on those products for motorcycles. Short of the BMW centric Navigator series, the last MC specific one, I believe, was my old zumo 665. I still can use it due to the standard mounts, but I know it's very long in the tooth. However, they are very useful and don't require "hacks" or weird non standard mounts the way throwing a phone on (and god forbid your expensive cellphone gets broken while mouthed or the need to buy special gloves with tips to use the capacitive screens).

Seriously, there's a need to help in this market. I mean, if they are sign small aircraft and boat/maritime units, they could also cut out some for this space too.

Here! Here!
Smartphones are becoming "the jack of all trades, master of none"!
Useful but not dedicated for each need……

There have been numerous zumos since the 665

Complete iist can be found here: http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42240

Ha, I'm still using a Zumo 450 and my wife has the 550, I never upgraded because they did away with the locking screw, not foolproof but enough to keep honest people honest talk about old, and when using one of those just after using my DriveSmart 61 in my car, well, it's like the difference between dial-up and cable internet.

With the concern of no new units, my 61 is wonderful and fills my needs. Claimed "Refurbished" units selling at $119 (mine totally look new) there is a lot there for the money. I would recommend it for all.