Should Garmin recall the 1XXX series???

If you have been with Garmin for awhile you could see the decline of software quality control start when Garmin announced their intent to jump into the smartphone market. They put their best and brightest onto this project and with dollar signs in their eyes turned PND QC over to new hires and interns which lead to such memorable moments as the near simultaneous bricking of a huge number of the 7x5 series, then said if you did the 5 minute fix yourself you would void your warranty so instead you had to be without while it was sent back to them.

Garmin should have killed the Nuviphone project about 30 seconds after Jobs announced the iPhone now had GPS and a new App Store, and started an App like their competitors did. So QC is most likely to stay status quo at best or get worse, while those "Best and Brightest" are assigned to catch up in the APP market the PND will remain in the backseat.

When I changed the firmware on my 1300LM, I got Lane Assist, Junction View support, and the speed limit indicator. Of those three, the least useful is Junction View. I admit I like Junction View, but the feature is one of those "gee whiz" features on the GPS: cool to have, but not an essential component of the GPS' software. Lane Assist and the speed limit indicator are far more useful. The former because it appears far earlier than the Junction View image, and the latter because there are times when you don't know what the speed limit is supposed to be.

My Garmin 3790LMT will zoom in and out depending on the speed that I am going.

My sincere thanks to "cbwatts" for starting this thread...and continuing to comment since then.

Here's are a few more bits of perspective, in regard to Garmin significantly reducing the usefulness and frequency of Junction Views:

I have noted several comments in this thread deriding Garmin owners who protest the lessening of Junction Views, from the standpoint that they "still have some level of JV...and thus Garmin continues to meet its original advertisement of this feature."

How would the rest of the Garmin owners feel if Garmin chose to cripple some other longstanding feature: For instance, what if you blindly installed the newest update...and found that the number of LANE ASSISTANCE views (= lane arrows for where to make next turn) were cut from 451,000 megabytes of space...to only 51 MB??? And even worse, that you couldn't go back and restore the previous version?

Would YOU be happy if that happened to you? What prevents Garmin from treating the rest of its owners that way? After all, Garmin would still be providing some level of that previously promised feature, which was ANOTHER one of the many reasons for which I originally bought the Nuvi 855.

Even worse, just imagine that your Jill or Samantha or whatever voice was now of much lesser quality (as has always been the case with the Nuvi 255/265). Those voices are supported by smaller megabyte file sizes than on the other Nuvis: What prevents Garmin from choosing to reduce file space on our Nuvis by altering our software files in future updates?

A further infuriating example of Garmin making changes to previously assumed/"promised" features is the recent practice of forcing owners to accept smaller Map files, either for the "lower 49 states" and/or forgoing the previously touted Canada maps. Owners have recently been forced to accept deleting most alternate language voices or car icons, etc., in order to install the latest Map updates.

Sure, readers of forums such as this have learned that they can save the original Mapset ranges (which they are used to) onto SD cards....BUT what about Joe Blow, who doesn't read forums, and tries to install the Map Update, and believes he has no choice but to accept a much smaller map version (onto the Nuvi itself)?: "Oh shoot, I guess I'll just click here and have to be happy without Canada and the Western U.S...."

What also gripes me about the change in JV files is that owners are NOT WARNED before they routinely install the latest Map Update, and thus not offered the option to retain a previous Mapset/JV file size. Remember, there have to be thousands and thousands of customers who do not view forums such as this...and routinely trust Garmin to notify them of available updates...and then do so online. So much for blindly trusting Garmin to treat its customers fairly and honestly.

I, too, used to proudly brag about how wonderful my Nuvi 855 was...and recommend various Nuvis to prospective buyers. No More! I just might buy another Garmin in the future, but not before I seriously consider other brands. However, I will be trying to hold onto my existing unit for as long as possible...and, of course, will not be DOWNDATING it in the foreseeable future.

Who can trust Garmin in the future to treat their customers fairly, and openly, before they "Downdate" their Nuvi online? Not Me...What About You?

I purchased a $150 Canon camera a while back. It did not have an SD card. BB at least informed me that I needed one. Canon was trying to keep the cost down due to competition.
I just bought lifetime maps for my 1490. I have the 2012.1 so far & have the D3153020A.JCV of 45MB. Chris @ Garmin states that he has 2012.1 with the 367.5MB file on his 1450, so it can be done. On August 1 he also told me he was mailing me the larger file on a disk.
Tick Tick Tick

Do nothing is the correct answer. Here's a bit more detailed info for those interested.

What every consumer needs to understand is Garmin as a company does care about the customer, which is the big box dealers like Best Buy, Bass Pro Shops, West Marine, etc.

Everyone here at the POI-Factory? We aren't customers. We are end users. The "Garmin Machine" doesn't care about end users.

Are there employees are Garmin that care about the end user? Sure. If you call into the Garmin's customer support the agent will care for the most part. The reason is because you can call them. You can't call Garmin's engineering teams.

Garmin engineering? They don't care about the 1xxx. They do care about the big box dealers buying the next product line which is where the Garmin business model comes into action. The so called fixes will come in the next model released so there is more volume. The example is the 37xx series. This device doesn't work with MapSource. I've personally been to meetings where engineering was told customers were upset, yet nothing happened. Why? Because it's not the Garmin way. The firmware won't change for the 37xx but it will for the next 37xx series. Mark it down now folks - the newly released device will work with MapSource.

I shouldn't blame Garmin though because Apple does the same thing (Apple's profit margins are 21% & Garmin's are 24.5% so these models do work). They know consumers won't do anything about it except to get in line for the next product.

My advice is to try to do something about it. Buy a different product. Or use tools like Twitter to let @Garmin know what you think as a consumer. When sales drop, which is already happening due to smart phones, someone at Garmin might decide to listen.

Just as an example, I added this thread to Twitter about 30 minutes ago. Feel free to share!

@DarthTedd
Should @Garmin recall the 1xxx series? poi-factory.com/node/34035 #Garmin #GPS

You've now said basically the same thing in 4 different threads in the last 11 hours since you've been a member here. You seem to know a lot about the internal workings of Garmin, like you work there. If that's the case, most forums, and I suspect this one does as well, require employees of Garmin, TomTom etc. to state that fact so that all members know who they are dealing with.

It would be interesting to know exactly where your seemingly inside information is coming from.

I used to work there. Just trying to get a bit of the word out. There are issues at Garmin but there are good people working there who care about the end users.

DarthT

If you really used to work at Garmin, please forward links to this thread to any of your old contacts so that Garmin realizes they aren't pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.

>>I am quite surprised with the frustration over Junction View

This thread is about Garmin reducing the number of junction views ... not about the "value" of junction views.

But if you've ever pulled a 30 foot travel trailer through a "new" large metropolis, with numerous connecting interstates ... you'd realize the value.

However, let's keep it on topic.

Garmin is giving many people 1/10 the junction views ... on many model lines ... and hoping nobody will notice.

Well, we noticed ... and we're going to complain until Garmin allows us to install future updates (complete NA and JCV files) on an sd card if our Lifetime map units don't have enough space internally.

I could see Lane Assist being useful at times, every now and again I've had the last second change if I didn't see the sign in time. Speed limits would be good to know as well, so when the detector goes off you know what you need to slow down to

If you have Facebook, it doesn't hurt to hop on over to Garmin's wall (https://www.facebook.com/Garmin?ref=ts) and say something there. Somehow, I don't think they can really keep things under wraps if half a billion people see it.

You're sort-of right in saying it's the same as looking our your windshield. The difference is that looking at the JV on the screen shows you a picture (roughly) of what is out your windshield but with giant magenta arrows showing you which lanes to be in (which isn't out your windshield ).

You still have lane-assist in the top-left corner which, with what's out your windshield effectively cover it.

I think as a whole, we need to take a look at what really is important here and put things into perspective.

If Garmin decided to remove the Interstates and highways from the maps, that would cause some problems, but life will go on. By removing a few pictures that can be seen looking out your windows, even less of an issue. I think people are relying WAY too much on the GPS, and not as much on the real world.

I guess this mindset can explain how people can drive down a boat ramp, or get lost in the wilderness because their GPS told them to...

Come ON Shrifty ... our very presence here means we are GPS enthusists, who want to get the max out of our GPS units.

Don't rain on our parade ... and don't crap on my thread.

Like I said, this thread isn't about the value of junction view files ... it's about the fact Garmin is giving us less and less with each update.

Let's keep it on point, ok? No thread crapping.

By the by, the problem has been solved for 2012.2.

Garmin has released a new 752mb JCV file that works perfectly on a microSD card.

It's a huge file ... but there no distortion and a whole bunch more junction views.

Let's hope Garmin offers the option to load everything on an SD card with 2012.3.

So why do you own a gps if you can use paper maps and look out the window??

Of course there are millions of things more important in life than stupid jcv files, but we aren't here to discuss those other things. This board is for the discussion of Garmin gps devices.

Garmin did something unethical by crippling a feature on their gps devices. Just because there are more important things in life doesn't excuse Garmin's actions.

I guess it's good to have someone that tells us what to think and what we should like. But, at 75 I don't need or want it.

I think some of you (I'm not going to go back and re-read the thread - I just remember reading it) mentioned that you'd have some crazy routing happening. Things like: you're on an interstate, it routes you off the interest and and onto side roads, then it puts you on the interstate a ways down the road. things that don't make any sense.

I've seen this happen in one of two ways.

The first way, and for me it was riding down a major interstate in St Louis, I think it was just a map data problem. The map looked fine but, for whatever reason, my GPS at the time (an in-dash unit) did not like that section of interstate and would always route me off of it. I remember that section looking newly rebuilt so maybe that had something to do with it. I don't really know and I haven't been back to check it out.

The second way, which is user-controllable, is if you have 'Avoid Traffic' turned on. In this situation I've noticed that the Garmin will take the slightest hint of traffic and take you onto the side roads (or it used to, I've always left avoid traffic off and used the prompts to let me decide what to do). Sometimes you'll get faux traffic being reported and it'll do the same thing. Anyway, if you're driving along and you see this then you'll be scratching your head wondering why your GPS is acting so crazy. The newer units may have fixed this with Traffic Trends. I really don't know for sure, though.

Now that I think about it, my StreetPilot had a bug where it would freeze right at the NC-TN border in the Smoky Mountains. I reported it to Garmin but it was a pretty minimal problem. Flip the unit off, wait a min, flip the unit back on and it was good to go again. I haven't experienced this with other models.

As has been mentioned, Garmin made a huge JCV file for 2012.20 NA map and Nuvi 7x5 and it is available for download from Garmin's website:

http://download.garmin.com/support/2012_20/NA/JV/D3060030A.j...

According to the instructions, one can put it in the garmin/jcv folder on internal memory. If one doesn't have enough room, delete the small one in garmin/jcv file and put the new one on a SDHC card in a garmin/jcv folder.

So, it looks like Garmin is listening. Maybe they will release one for the 13xx/14xx models soon.

I hope what is likely for the future from Garmin: is that when one does a map update and there isn't enough internal memory, then the program will advise people to buy a SDHC card and then try again.

This is the file that works on these models. Just put it on an SD card. It works great. Garmin says it only works on 7X5. Little do they know.

I notice today that my GPS zooms out around 60 MPH, then I slow down and the map zooms in. There's nothing wrong with my 2350LMT.

Do you have a link to a full article about this defective memory problem in 1xxx series Garmins? I would really like to read up on it.

Its not that it is defective, its the lack of memory in the 1XXX units.

The memory in the 1xxx is not defective, just insufficient to hold the current version of the full CN NA map and large JCV file. Putting only 2 GB of memory in these models was questioned by knowledgable users on this and other forums when the 1xxx models were first introduced. It seemed like a short sighted design for Garmin to do this, and it is now obvious that they should have put in 4 GB like the older 7x5 and 8x5 series.

As far as a link to an article, I think the threads in this forum regarding this problem are about as comprehensive as you will find.

IIRC, it also zooms in automatically when approaching a turn, and then zooms back out automatically after the turn.

My 3790LMT zoom in and out depending on my speed. If I turn a corner at a slow speed it will zoom way in as I pick up speed it will zoom out.

the wrong description; try this...the scum at Garmin, having created a large JCV database and installing it on earlier units, knowing users would tout it, decided to GREATLY truncate the JCV files on newer units and NEVER advise buyers of the new units that due to crappy memory size the JCV files were MUCH worse than on earlier units.

On my unit (1490) they truncated the files with a map update after I bought the unit and that is outright FRAUD IMHO...but apologists don't care about that.

I think that is entirely accurate. Some lawsuits get tried in a court of law...sometimes the "lawsuit" gets tried in the court of public spending and then go to bankruptcy court when the scummy manufacturer goes out of business.

I have sent few emails to Garmin.. I always read customers come first (not for Garmin i guess)..

I know they are not going to do ANYTHING.. but who knows they might prove me wrong and actually do something about this memory issue (at least let us download full map with full JCV as provided to 37xx units straight to SDHC card)

LM is a rip off if you can't install the full map. And I hope they warn people by labelling their 1xxx units with 2GB ONLY..

This is exactly why I love my built in.....update every two years for about $150 and works perfectly...never have had one problem (repeat never had one single problem)....I also have a 2450LM that I like but no where near the capabilities of the built in unit....

I still don't understand all this complaining over an entry-level unit. Everyone complaining about the gimped Junction View file is justified. I agree that Garmin should have put 4GB in the 1xxx series, but to claim that lifetime maps are a rip off because a user will eventually have to use a MicroSD card to store portions of the map that do not fit in internal memory is a pile of horse s#!^. Perhaps you and others like you, those who are throwing a hissy fit over limited memory on an entry-level unit, should instead hold yourselves responsible for purchasing the wrong unit.

That does not mean Garmin is blameless here. They could have put the added memory in, and they could rewrite MapInstall to automatically send portions of the map that don't fit in internal memory to external memory. But the end user must also share the blame.

yes

Come on Garmin. Do the right thing and keep your loyal customer base.