Re Updated POI Loader to V 2.6.0

@JM,

What character will you choose to replace the comma?

A space makes sense, but it is not a great delimitter if you want to split information later on. There are alreay many spaces in each columns.

It could be a period ".", a semi-column ";", ... With those, EPE could split the information when going to GPX. If Garmin makes a fix, it will be also possible to go back to commas by replacing the selected character back to commas.

What's the plan?

Don't forget to copy sox.exe back into the installation directory after you update to 2.6. Once I did that it worked no problem...

Thank you, Charles.
Also, I may be able to look for a workaround for the blank column c issue after the comma and length problems are fixed.

I was thinking of using a semicolon ";", so let me know if you (or anyone else) see any "show stopper" issues with this.

I posted in wrong thread. Here it is again:

Their answer will be: "they don't know"!

It seems it is not related to the length of the column, but to the number of chatacters in columns 3 and 4. If you have less characters in column 3, you can put more in column 4.

The maximum number of characters available for both columns 3 & 4 is...

1024 characters!

Somebody needs to have a look at TourGuides. Maybe GPX files are not limited in character size. Can you imagine limit the description field to 1024 characters? It does not make any sense. So, it is again another bug in POI Loader by Garmin. They limited the size of a character variable and forgot to check if it made sense. Looks like a Summer Student work to me...

Is the new POI Loader having problems with just the multi-line CSV files?

MULTI-LINE EXAMPLE

With a quick look through the "problem" files, it seems they all have "multi-line" values in one or more columns. For example:

Best Western Locations USA (http://www.poi-factory.com/node/12795)

-149.863131,61.187522,"Best Western Golden Lion Hotel","1000 E 36th Avenue
Anchorage, AK 99508
Phone: (907) 561-1522
Fax: (907) 743-4814"

SINGLE-LINE EXAMPLE

Some files have commas enclosed in quotes, but the columns are all on a single line. For example:

WalMart, Sam's Clubs, and Super WalMart Centers US and Canada Combined (http://www.poi-factory.com/node/25560)

-159.367215,21.982201,Wal-Mart - Lihue #2308,"3-3300 Kuhio Hwy,Lihue, HI 96766,(808) 246-1599"

Will someone please check the new POI Loader to see if commas are *not* causing problems on single line POI records like those in the WalMart file?

Thanks,
JM

The Wal-Mart file has a comma in the POI Name field on line 19. Sam's Club - Fairbanks, Gas. All information after Gas is truncated for that line.

I know there are many more, but that was the first instance.

Edit: The other lines I checked were parsed correctly and the embedded commas in the description field were allowed.

I was able to extend the Max Field Length by using a double quote on the 4th column and adding a CRLF before the 1024 characters. This way, the Col 3 and 4 size has been extended to 2048 characters without problems, but I was not able to put the information on 3 lines. POI Loader was complaining.

Edit:

I also tested column 4 with multiple commas within double quotes and it works perfectly. so the problem does not seem to be commas as much as multiple lines (more than 2) within those commas.

Thanks.

It's interesting that the first 18 lines (all with commas inside quotes) did not trigger the problem.

I was hoping I could let all the single line locations go through without replacing the commas, but the line 19 example you found *is* a single line location

Looking more closely, I see that line 19 is the first line that has a quoted comma in column 3. The earlier lines have quoted commas in column 4 but not column 3.

It looks like the problem might only occur when there's a quoted comma in column 3. Does this seem accurate? If so, I will target the fix to just column 3.

I believe JD4x4 posted that a comma in column C is a problem only if there is data in column D. In other words, embedded commas are allowed only in the last field.

Hi JM,

double quotes are not allowed in Column 3. This is not as much a comma issue as a double quote issue. Obviously, you can't use commas if you do not have double quote...

So this line is not working:

10.234, 3.1416, "POI Name", Hello world

but this is working

10.234, 3.1416, POI Name, Hello world

and this one too:

10.234, 3.1416, POI Name, "Hello, world,
and hello again"

I got answer back from Garmin but not in line with site info.Here is my question to Garmin.

In your reply you stated " Also you can not have too many characters in the description". Could you tell me how many characters you can have in description?I have a lot of files to fix to meet 2.60 requirements.Plus on our Poi Factory forum we have thousands of files to fix.Would like to get it right from the start.

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.
I have checked into this and find that the number of characters should be limited to 100.
With Best Regards,
Norman J
Software Support Specialist
Software Team
Garmin International
913-397-8200
800-800-1020
913-440-8280 (fax) Att: Norman J, Associate #5920
www.garmin.com
Additional solutions may be found at http://www.garmin.com/garmin/cms/site/us/support/searchsuppo...

Col3: not a comma issue, but double quote issue

Are they out of their mind? Where do you want to go with 100 characters?

It is a good thing that their program works better than their TechSupport.

Perhaps that's only for column 3?

You seem to have found from your own testing that column 4 can be much longer...

No, I tested with nearly 400 characters in column 3 and it works.

I made more tests with column 4:

1- you can use commas if you double quote the entire column
2- you can use multiple line (it was still working when I tested 4 lines)
3- You need to be under 2048 characters total
4- You need to have less than 1024 characters per line.

Point #3 was the reason why I could not add more than 2 lines earlier.

I might appear that 100 characters was just a guess on their part then.

...Or 100 characters might be the maximum that will actually be sent to show on the GPS?

They are talking about column c.Don't know how this relates but column c determines would you will hear on arrival at your destination.If to long it will cut off the message.For example someone wanted me to put in column c the city with the name for Cracker Barrel.I tried it and part of the message was cut off for a long city name.

Okay, I have a fix loaded on the site. It automatically removes commas/quotes from column 3 as files are downloaded. For now, the max length issue is not addressed.

Let's test some of the problem files again and see if this fixes most of them.

Thanks,
JM

Most 4 columns do not have 2048 characters total and not 1024 character on a single line without a line break. I think it is a good start to see how it goes.

Something interesting I just found.Installed 2.60 and deleted all my custom pois.Make a folder my pois and put Bank Of America in it.Poiloader showed error line 1801 and only loaded 1800 of the 10003 pois.Deleted line 1801.Re-ran poiloader and found error line 2180 and only loaded 2179 of the 10003 pois.Stopped after that.On my original files I had converted the csv file Bank Of America to a gpx and had deleted info column c and changed to just Bank Of America.It loaded with all my other files with no problem.But there are errors in the file.Starting to think 2.60 may be better for catching problems and like others stated a lot faster.Edit Change in statement ran the new csv file back through again in EPE and it picked up erros in line 1801 and 2180 with option to skip them.

I think you may have misunderstood Jon. I believe he was talking about reloading the POI files to POI-Factory. His filter would scan incoming files, not the outgoing ones.

It's either that or I'm misunderstanding where the filter is.

Right click on the menu bar, blank spot will tell your version

Turboccc who has done WONDERS to the GPS world has said the following concerning the new Garmin POI Loader

Now alot of people are complaining that they can't load their files with this new loader then why not revert to the previous loader ? It might not be as fast or sophisticated as the newer one but folks at least it loads the files properly.

Go ahead and fix all the files according to this new loader, in 18 months another genius from Garmin will release another new and improved loader and you'll all have to change your files again.

If you change your car every year and hear that the owners of the new model of the year are having numerous problems would you upgrade ?

If you own a 7x5 series unit and hear from other users that the new software version Garmin just put out is loaded with bugs will you still go ahead and upgrade ?

Anyways I'll leave it at that, I'm sure I got my point across and as the old saying goes and is said so often "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

I haven't upgraded to 2.6.0 yet, but I'm going to have to download it and see if Canada Rest Areas and Canada Zip Codes (Searchable) give it problems. I don't anticipate problems with Canada Rest Areas since column C doesn't have any commas, but do expect to have to modify Canada Zip Codes (Searchable) because that file has no column D and every entry in column C is quoted and has a comma. I can imagine just how much difficulty I would have with Historic Ships if I hadn't switched it to GPX last year.

At this point, maybe I should just change to GPX for my two remaining files and be done with it.

"Okay, I have a fix loaded on the site. It automatically removes commas/quotes from column 3 as files are downloaded. For now, the max length issue is not addressed.

Let's test some of the problem files again and see if this fixes most of them.

Thanks,
JM"

I just downloaded the poi files again and am getting the same errors in 2.6.0 version of poiloader. Guess we need some clarification as to if it is supposed to be fixed when downloaded to our computer or uploaded to POI-Factory.

The answer is quite simple really. If you expect people to use the old version than EVERY SINGLE DAY we're going to get posts from new members complaining about not being able to load files using the current version of POI Loader.

A new member isn't going to read all of these posts before they download POI Loader. They're just going to go to Garmin's website, download the latest version of POI Loader, and try to install POIs. And when it doesn't work they are going to blame this site, not Garmin.

I re-down loaded all my 57,340 custom pois via poisync and the comma error in the Subaru Dealership is fixed.

GadgetGuy2008 makes an excellent point.

As I said before so much for proper grammar. We all thank you very much Garmin. I do make my share of mistakes in grammar, but I really don't do in intentionally, Nor would I prevent anyone from using it the right way. Then I'm not the god like creatures on Mount Garmin!

Like I said I make mistakes. I was thinking punctuation and said grammar. I was wrong and corrected my mistake. Hey Garmin, your turn!

Fat Chance

Using Notepad, I created the following test CSV file (using alternately a semicolon, space, or period between City and State) and loaded it into my little Garmin 255 with PoiLoader 2.6.0.0:

-87.654,32.109,"Name of Restaurant
555 Street Name Here
City; State 55555
Phone: 123-456-7890","This is a test, a test, a test.Yes. A test, a test, a test.
(Yes, columns 3 and 4 are both on multiple lines.)

On the “GO” page, it read (All Bold):
Name of Restaurant
555 Street Name Here
City; State 55555
Phone: 123-456-7890 (End)

On the “More” page, it read (No Bold):
Name of Restaurant
555 Street Name Here
City; State 55555
Phone: 123-456-7890
(Double Space)
This is a test, a test, a test.
(Double Space)
Yes. A test, a test, a test. (End)

Using version 2.6.0.0, the file would not load fully with a comma anywhere in the 3rd column. It also would not load fully without the double quotes in the 3rd column, apparently since I used multiple lines for column 3. Obviously, I used several commas in the last (4th) column without creating any loading issue.

At least for my little 255, the comma, not the double quotes, is the issue in column 3. I did not find any change in how column 4 is handled from version 2.5.4.0., although there may be some.

I still prefer using PoiLoader 2.5.4.0.

Same for my 255W.

This line, as downloaded a few days ago from poi-factory did not work with 2.6.0:

-71.107665,42.834129,"Singer Subaru, LLC ","77 Plaistow Road
Plaistow, NH 03865
(603) 382-7101"

This line as edited by me worked:

-71.107665,42.834129,"Singer Subaru LLC ","77 Plaistow Road
Plaistow, NH 03865
(603) 382-7101"

This line as downloaded from poi-factory after JM's fix also works:

-71.107665,42.834129,Singer Subaru; LLC ,"77 Plaistow Road
Plaistow, NH 03865
(603) 382-7101"

It seems we have contradictory results.

10.222, 22.333, "POI Name", "bla bla"

did not work for me. Could it be the space before/after the comma could be the issue?

Since most agree that there are major problems with this new and improved POI loader why not do the following.

When a member clicks on a file to download write beside the download button in bold "POI factory strongly suggests downloading all files with POI loader 2.5.4 which can be found here" and you include a link.

That way every single time a newbie wants to download a file he'll know which loader is suggested and should be used. The exact same thing is done for the sox file that specifies the correct version to be used in the FAQ section.
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/25730

When Garmin notices the poor download percentage rate for their 2.6.0 loader, HOPEFULLY they'll learn from their mistakes and come out with an updated corrected version.

@turboccc: I could not load your file with spaces in my 255 using PoiLoader 2.6.0. The "bla bla" portion was truncated.

I then quickly removed the spaces and reloaded. I expected to see the "More" page appear. It did not.

Then, I noticed that there was no "-" in column 1. I added it and the file fully loaded in the 255 using version 2.6.0, both with and without spaces after the commas.

selfruler

I doubt that Garmin uses download statistics to guage whether to make changes to their software.

As pointed out in posts above, Garmin seems to be within the standards because they might, but are not required to, allow commas in certain fields.

What if Garmin updates POILoader with neat new features and does not "fix" the comma problem? What then? If we do not adjust, then people would be likely to view poi-factory as behind the times.

Let's figure out how to live with the new POILoader.

The issue with version 2.6.0 has to be dealt with on this end. It actually has been dealt with by JM, Turbocc, and many others. There is already a "fix" that has been installed.

In the Hobby Lobby.csv file at http://www.poi-factory.com/poifile/download/csv?node=15576 there was an extra comma in line 221. JM changed the comma to a semi colon but the file still would not load. The error line changed during the load to line 179. Line 179(or 178) has an extra LF that is unrelated to the replacement on line 221.

Perhaps we have more files with problems other than commas.

Line 179 shows the following:
(Approximate Location) "6115 Pinnacle Parkway
Covington, LA 70433
This store is not open yet."

Column A has no longitude
Column B has no latitude
It is not formatted correctly.

For what it's worth, I noticed on the Garmin Forums that v260 operation has been brought up, and that one of the Garmin software Desktop App Developers had responded that they were "looking into the issue".

I sent the developer the message listed below, so if I get a meaningful reply I'll post it here for everyone's info:

"Hi there. The difference in csv parsing between POILoader 254 and 260 seems to be causing quite a stir with at least one (major) POI web site community I belong to.

I noticed that you said someone is looking into it so I'm hoping you might be able to tell me if it looks like v260 represents a permanent change that Garmin wants to introduce, or if the change might have been unintentional.

The community seems divided on staying with v254 until another POILoader release, or going through a major effort to make the legacy csv files conform to v260 operation.

Any insight from your point of view would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks."

Been away the last few weeks in China. Thanks for the heads up. I will try it out and see if I have any of the issues that have been reported.

Thanks

I have fixed this error, the file should work now.

Miss POI

Looks like most if not all of the Home Depot csv files give errors. Looks like too many LFs.

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/12306 this is Home Depot USA.csv

This comment has been moved here.

Use version 254, if that is what you want! The fix, replacing commas in column 3 with semicolons, apparently works on most of the files here. As noted above, many of the other errors discovered in the files seem to be formatting errors.

My preference is to avoid semicolons in column 3 of my personal files. Conventional English usaage doesn't put a semicolon between City, State. To me, such usage is not "elegant". So, I will stick with commas and 254 for now.

My Rant: What has Garmin really accomplished by eliminating all commas from a double-quote-enclosed column 3 in CSV files? Garmin has only perplexed some of its best customers and caused them to create convenient, but in-elegant, workarounds!

If you can keep the files virtually unchanged except for substituting a semicolon for a comma, what real change is that? It can't be worth it just to implement some nebulous, ill-defined standard, can it? And, if you can choose to allow numerous commmas inside double quotes in column 4, why not allow at leat one comma inside double quotes in column 3?

As others have noted, it looks like slipshod (my word) work done by an intern that created an unintended consequence that needs to be corrected - and, corrected quickly.

At any rate, each of us can choose to use the version of PoiLoader we want to use for now, while we wait for a further response from Garmin.

The problem is that the regular users of the forum and files KNOW how to deal with the issue, but new users won't know how to get around the problem. They will be using the new poi loader and have problems. We need to take action on this side (and JM has).

Last two emails from Garmin.

Question 1.Are you sure about 100 characters for description?Looks like it would be more then that.Just want to double check before our forum starts work on all the files.

Answer.I wasn't able to find anything to confirm or refute the 100 character limit and the POI loader makes no reference to it. The prudent thing to do before undertaking a huge project would be to create some test files with varying numbers of characters and see if there is indeed an upper limit to the number that can be used.

With Best Regards,
Rich C
Software Support Specialist
Software Team
Garmin International
913-397-8200
800-800-1020

Question 2.Is there any chance someone will be looking into changing the 2.60 release more like the 2.54?Or do we need to just go ahead and confirm to the latest release of 2.60?

Answer.The 2.60 release is barely two weeks old but with any software, a problem has to be quantified before a fix can be rendered and that takes time. If 2.60 isn't working for you, going back to 2.54 would probably be the best course to take.

With Best Regards,
Rich C
Software Support Specialist
Software Team
Garmin International
913-397-8200

800-800-1020

I updated to 2.6.0 and now can't get it to install any of my old POIs (all in .csv format) onto my new nuvi 3790. The loader reads data files and writes databases, but then hangs after initializing the transfer. 2.6.0 was able to install those same files onto my nuvi 750; however, several of the files were reported to have a data error.

FWIW, the installation the 30-day trial of Garmin's safety camera POI file to the 3790 went without a hitch, so I know that POIs can be installed on that unit.

I was on the phone with Garmin's customer support this a.m., but the only suggestion I got was to try plugging the 3790 into a different USB port. That made no difference.

Where can I get a copy of 2.5.4?