Re Updated POI Loader to V 2.6.0

 

as of January 14, 2011

Change History
Changes made from version 2.5.4 to 2.6.0:

* Added ability to specify a custom POI file's name
* Added ability to handle swapped lat and lon values in CSV files
* Fixed issue with multi-line CSV files not being read correctly
* Fixed issue with extended ASCII characters in CSV files
* Fixed issue with reading large gpx and csv files making the application unresponsive

--
All the worlds indeed a stage and we are merely players. Rush
3 4 5
<<Page 2>>

I've never had problems with

I've never had problems with the version I'm running now, and as the saying goes "if it ain't broke.." and it isn't.

Yes, but ... No, but ... Yes, but ..

blake7mstr wrote:
Gary A wrote:
blake7mstr wrote:

seems like they might be making the editing more strict.

The way I see it, Garmin doesn't get to "set" the rules regarding the delimited text csv format. It's an already established standard:

arrow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma-separated_values

They get to "follow" the rules and a comma enclosed by double quotes is part of that standard.

Just my 2 cents.

a comma in a value enclosed by quotes is just a comma(special character), not a value separator see your link. If you have any question try reading the file into excel, it treats the "field, field", value, as two values not three better yet, take in one of your poi file, change one of the columns to include a comma separating fields and see how excel saves it, open it in notepad and you see the column now enclosed in quotes. If I'm not mistaken Garmin looks for 4 values when it takes in a POI file, Long, Lat, Name, other, what I think they are doing is the Name value can no longer contain special characters. Just my opinion.

Like it or not, Garmin DOES set the rules for THEIR software. If they change back to NOT recognizing commas inside quotes as delimiters for practical reasons, then so much the better, but as I found out (regarding another piece of software) a CSV 'standard' does NOT have to recognize a comma in quotes as a 'special' character rather than a delimiter/field separator.

From the wiki definition previously posted (emphasis added by me):
"Implementations of CSV can often handle field values with embedded line breaks or separator characters by using quotation marks or escape sequences"

Otherwise, the CSV 'standard' quite literally means that data segments are separated by commas. For example: the GPSBabel Garmin POI database (garmin_poi) format breaks the data at commas regardless of quote or other escape characters, and the developers consider that to be correct operation.

Time will tell if they change back, but it sounds to me like Garmin have changed to allow 'escaped commas' only in the 4th field.

surprised As much as I hate to subject myself to the wrath of the CSV-only enthusiasts, I'm compelled to mention that this kind of thing is exactly why I think GPX is the better format. It's a very precisely defined format standard by design, rather than an evolutionary 'standard' like CSV.

--
It's about the Line- If a line can be drawn between the powers granted and the rights retained, it would seem to be the same thing, whether the latter be secured by declaring that they shall not be abridged, or that the former shall not be extended.

Worked great for me

Worked great for me

Same here

JanJ wrote:

I see no reason to change...

--
Nüvi 255WT with nüMaps Lifetime North America born on 602117815 / Nüvi 3597LMTHD born on 805972514 / I love Friday’s except when I’m on holidays ~ canuk

...

d-moo70 wrote:

* Added ability to specify a custom POI file's name

Nice! grin

--
Michael (Nuvi 2639LMT)

90% POI CSV

Because most of my custom poi are CSV files I will stay with Loader ver. 2.5.4. I have way too many poi's to convert them. I have only experienced one error message with ver 2.5.4 in the past. I think it was the Godfather's file. I'm pretty sure it didn't have anything to do with ",". I'm not a poi maker but it looked like the column name was on the first line in the excel file. (maybe this is for another thread)smile If Garmin changes their formating back to the previous ver standards I'll upgrade at that point.

Poi Loader 2.6.0 works fine

Poi Loader 2.6.0 works fine for me.

--
Tight lines

One thing 2.6.0 will accomplish

I think one thing 2.6.0 will accomplish is putting a little standardization into the information in each field for those that only want to deal with CSV files. As new users will have to dig a little to get 2.5.4, the only recourse for a maintainer is to update their file so it is compatible with the new version of POI Loader.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

I understand..

I understand that the Garmin can set the standards as it pleases. But on the otherhand, it always wants feedback and opinions on how it can improve. What this new update means, is that the current POI files as far as Garmin is concerned doesn't meet the new standards it has set. The outcome from all of this will require us to update our files on this site so the newer versions can read.

I object!

As you may know, I do not make POI files myself, but I am totally shocked for you by this comma issue.

I really think that the comma not supported in quoted fields is a bug. A company should follow established standards and not set standards especially if they were supporting it previously. This is a very bad mistake. Backward compatibility is essential for a business.

I am sure Garmin knows it by now. Either they will issue a new release, or they will assume their customers will continue using the previous version since it is available.

My own 2 cents!

As GaryA pointed out

turboccc wrote:

As you may know, I do not make POI files myself, but I am totally shocked for you by this comma issue.

I really think that the comma not supported in quoted fields is a bug. A company should follow established standards and not set standards especially if they were supporting it previously. This is a very bad mistake. Backward compatibility is essential for a business.

I am sure Garmin knows it by now. Either they will issue a new release, or they will assume their customers will continue using the previous version since it is available.

My own 2 cents!

As GaryA pointed out. The wording of the Standard is that an implementer - Garmin in this case - MAY treat embedded commas as special characters. Just because they always have in the past doesn't mean they have to now. That's just one of the issues with standards, you have to be very careful with the wording over what is permitted and what is required. The quoted Wikipedia article stated treating commas within a quoted field as special characters is permissive.

As Garmin does treat embedded commas in the description field (that's the 4th column) as special characters you can argue they are not consistent in how they handle special characters. But then this is getting pretty deep into how the wording of a standard can conflict with how a programmer chooses to interpret a requirement.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

Basically...

Garmin indeed improved cosmetics and some functionalities with the new update, but did they ultimately change something that really made the problem worse? This is the issue here.

Garmin POI 2.6.0

turboccc wrote:

As you may know, I do not make POI files myself, but I am totally shocked for you by this comma issue.

I really think that the comma not supported in quoted fields is a bug. A company should follow established standards and not set standards especially if they were supporting it previously. This is a very bad mistake. Backward compatibility is essential for a business.

I am sure Garmin knows it by now. Either they will issue a new release, or they will assume their customers will continue using the previous version since it is available.

My own 2 cents!

I wrote to Garmin and published what they said on this website.But I will tell you the feeling I got is they don't care

If they don't care about

If they don't care about what their customers want, they're already on their way out!

I would think cooler hands are in charge of the company. At least, I hope so.

Fred

Big mistake!

Hi mdh31951,

I am not really surprised. This is why I posted "or they will assume their customers will continue using the previous version since it is available"...

It took them so long to just publish this version (which is not a huge improvement...), that it clearly states they are not interested in developping software, but GPS. With limited resources, you have to concentrate on the important. It may have been done by a summer (or winter) students for all we know. Personally, I think they used a different CSV parser to fix one of the issues and they found out after publishing that they lost the ability to support commas in quoted fields. It is a so dumb move that it can only be a mistake.

I have been in the software business for long enough to know you never make the past incompatible with your future without getting bitten afterward. If we are lucky, the next release in 12 months may fix this problem.

garmin csv format

here is the format on the garmin site
http://www8.garmin.com/products/poiloader/creating_custom_po...
------------------------------------------------
The following are examples of Custom POIs in the proper format:

-94.79731,38.81099,Ridgeview@25

-94.74240,38.81952,Heritage Park,Perfect site for a picnic

-94.76416,38.81227,Garmin,"1200 E. 151st Street

Olathe,KS 66062
913/397.8300"
------------------------------------------------

don't see any commas in the name field, just the standard one in the address field.

.

I've said this for a while, but if you're unhappy with Garmin then speak with your wallet. STOP buying Garmin. That's the only thing that will make Garmin change.

Maybe Garmin is doing something?

I am running 2.5.4.0 version and when I tell POILoader to check for Software updates it says "There are no software updates available for POILoader".

Maybe Garmin has taken the update to 2.6.0 down until they fix the issue.

--
Nuvi 2460LMT

2.60

--
Charlie. Nuvi 265 WT and Nuvi 2597 LMT. Android Here WeGo - Offline Maps & GPS.

Agree With Turboccc

I agree with turboccc that the way the latest version parses "," as an error is a bug. sad I am sticking with version 2.5.4.0

--
Tampa, FL - Garmin nüvi 660 (Software Ver 4.90), 2019.30 CN NA NT maps | Magellan Meridian Gold

I find the 2.60 version...

d-moo70 wrote:

as of January 14, 2011

Change History
Changes made from version 2.5.4 to 2.6.0:

* Added ability to specify a custom POI file's name
* Added ability to handle swapped lat and lon values in CSV files
* Fixed issue with multi-line CSV files not being read correctly
* Fixed issue with extended ASCII characters in CSV files
* Fixed issue with reading large gpx and csv files making the application unresponsive

quite a bit faster. No (cross my fingers) problems as yet..I can only hope and pray...

--
"Backward, turn backward, oh time in your flight, make me a child again, just for tonight."

POI Loader

Thanks for the heads up and the info!

loop hole

Gary A wrote:

I agree with turboccc that the way the latest version parses "," as an error is a bug. sad I am sticking with version 2.5.4.0

I suspect it was a loophole that poi file builders exploited and Garmin has shut it down. In any event it isn't difficult to fix.

POILoader v2.5.4

Why play into Garmin's hands. Stick with the one that works.

If they really wanted to do something they would make the program so that you could configure file setups so that everytime you had a new POI file you didn't have to step through every file each and every time. It's not faster if it fails to load the files.

--
Harley BOOM GTS, Zumo 665, (2) Nuvi 765Ts, 1450LMT, 1350LM & others | 2019 Harley Ultra Limited Shrine - Peace Officer Dark Blue

.

It just goes to show you, new is not necessarily better. An old adage, but still true.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Sound File Error

charlesd45 wrote:

Anyone checked to make sure we didn't lose the ability to use wav files with new poiloader?

I am having problem with loading my wav files.

I didnt have that issue with previous version.

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/7372/errorxm.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4526/error1y.jpg

--
Street Pilot C340, nuvi 265WT, Mio Moov 300, nuvi 255W, Navigon 2100 (Retired)

2.60

kmo wrote:
charlesd45 wrote:

Anyone checked to make sure we didn't lose the ability to use wav files with new poiloader?

I am having problem with loading my wav files.

I didnt have that issue with previous version.

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/7372/errorxm.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4526/error1y.jpg

Someone posted that when they downloaded 2.60 is was placed on the computer in a different location then 2.54.They had to add the sox.exe to the new location.

Never got answer back from Garmin on the problem.Just sent another one with copy of the first one asking about delay.

--
Charlie. Nuvi 265 WT and Nuvi 2597 LMT. Android Here WeGo - Offline Maps & GPS.

POI Loader

I d/l'ed 2.6.0 version and tried but it would only load half of my GPX files before quitting. Tried both "express" and "manual" with no success.

Re-installed 2.5.4 and all of the files load properly on my 680.

"New And Improved"

Juggernaut wrote:

It just goes to show you, new is not necessarily better. An old adage, but still true.

That phrase has always scared me to death, no matter what the product is. shock

--
Tampa, FL - Garmin nüvi 660 (Software Ver 4.90), 2019.30 CN NA NT maps | Magellan Meridian Gold

Agree with turbocc

I agree with turboCC that the change in the treatment of commas is likely a bug because, as he said, one always should strive to have your software backward compatible.

However, it does seem that the new feature of being able name the output file is a nice feature.

We need to wait and see what happens. there may have been a good reason why the change was made.

Re: Heads-Up

FZbar wrote:

I downloaded & installed the new POI Loader. I tried to recreate all the POI files I have replacing the last load I did several days ago with the old loader. It kept finding problems with the files that worked just fine under the old POI loader.

Removed the new loader. Installed 2.5.4 & was able to recreate all my POI's. Don't know what the problem is. I guess we'll hear from others if it's a general problem.

Fred

The problem is that the software parses the text differently. I had some commas in addresses that passed with the old version (2.5.4), but it hiccups with the new version. Says "Problem with line 852" but its the comma in the previous line that throws it out of sync. I guess it's getting plain text, when it's expecting a number in the first position on line 852. That means it's reading it in as one long string - just like it's a Binary file. Not truly parsing it line by line.

My humble guess, anyway.

--
Metricman Nuvi 660, GTM-20 Traffic Receiver Nuvi 3597 GTM-60 Traffic Receiver Williamsburg, VA

New Mac version

Maybe the Mac guys can let us PC guys know if their update works better

POI Loader for Mac, Ver. 2.2.0, as of Jan 25, 2011

--
All the worlds indeed a stage and we are merely players. Rush

Re: Re: Heads-Up

metricman wrote:

The problem is that the software parses the text differently. I had some commas in addresses that passed with the old version (2.5.4), but it hiccups with the new version. Says "Problem with line 852" but its the comma in the previous line that throws it out of sync. I guess it's getting plain text, when it's expecting a number in the first position on line 852. That means it's reading it in as one long string - just like it's a Binary file. Not truly parsing it line by line.

My humble guess, anyway.

My problem was with commas in the 3rd column as well as the 4th column.

BTW: It's been snowing in Williamsburg since 7:30 PM. Not really sticking though.

--
Metricman Nuvi 660, GTM-20 Traffic Receiver Nuvi 3597 GTM-60 Traffic Receiver Williamsburg, VA

2.60 follow up from Garmin

Finally got answer from Garmin on second email.Don't sound like they will fix the problem to me.

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

I am sorry your email somehow got overlooked and I would be happy to
assist you with your POI Loader. Usually this is caused because of the
formatting of the files being used. If you are using a "csv" file you
cannot have commas in the description fields. Also you can not have too
many characters in the description. The older versions would allow these
issues because they did a poor job determining if all lines in the file
are valid. To solve this issue, please remove any commas in the
descriptions and limit the length of your description.

If this is not an option, please try the previous version as some others
have done. Here is a link to download the version 2.54:

http://www.gawisp.com/perry/POILoaderforWindows_254.exe

Please let us know if you have any other issues or concerns.

With Best Regards,

David Mo.
Software Support Specialist
2nd Shift Software Team
Garmin International
913-397-8200
800-800-1020
913-440-8280 (fax) Att: David Mo., Associate #6387

--
Charlie. Nuvi 265 WT and Nuvi 2597 LMT. Android Here WeGo - Offline Maps & GPS.

.

Based on Garmin's response, it appears that Miss POI has to make some tough decisions.

Either (1) all existing csv files need to be reviewed and fixed or (2) this site needs to adopt the gpx format as the default format (since it appears that gpx files load properly even with commas in the description field).

It's unrealistic to expect all members to use an older version of POI Loader. So if nothing is done about this situation I can forsee new members logging complaints every day about csv files not loading properly.

Agree

I was setting here thinking the same thing GadgetGuy2008 .Trying to decide to just go ahead and change over to 2.60 and fix any files that I may have with problems.

--
Charlie. Nuvi 265 WT and Nuvi 2597 LMT. Android Here WeGo - Offline Maps & GPS.

other characters

has anyone had problems with any other characters in the "name" file like '-', '/' etc???

New Mac Version has the Same Problems

I reported this to Garmin Support and they Referred me to a page on their site. Of the examples on that page only one of three POI would load.

http://www8.garmin.com/products/poiloader/creating_custom_po...

--
Nuvi 3790t converted to 3490 software

POI Loader

charlesd45 wrote:

Finally got answer from Garmin on second email.Don't sound like they will fix the problem to me.

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

I am sorry your email somehow got overlooked and I would be happy to
assist you with your POI Loader. Usually this is caused because of the
formatting of the files being used. If you are using a "csv" file you
cannot have commas in the description fields. Also you can not have too
many characters in the description. The older versions would allow these
issues because they did a poor job determining if all lines in the file
are valid. To solve this issue, please remove any commas in the
descriptions and limit the length of your description.

If this is not an option, please try the previous version as some others
have done. Here is a link to download the version 2.54:

http://www.gawisp.com/perry/POILoaderforWindows_254.exe

Please let us know if you have any other issues or concerns.

With Best Regards,

David Mo.
Software Support Specialist
2nd Shift Software Team
Garmin International
913-397-8200
800-800-1020
913-440-8280 (fax) Att: David Mo., Associate #6387

Same response I got just from a different associate.

Add a note/warning

charlesd45 wrote:

I was setting here thinking the same thing GadgetGuy2008 .Trying to decide to just go ahead and change over to 2.60 and fix any files that I may have with problems.

I agree it is difficult to know which version users will have.

Why not just add a note beside each download section to indicate files are compatible with POI Loader v2.5.x ?

It seems to me that commas help in reading fields with multiple information. Also, EPE uses those commas to split/extract some address fields. It is not mandatory, but it helps to split address information into separate fields. Removing all commas is a lot of work. If Garmin fixes the issue next year, this would have been done for nothing.

Time to get this fixed on our side.

Well I guess I know what I will be doing over the next few weeks.

Time to get up to speed and start fixing files. I am going to see if there is an easy program that JM can build to locate these now broken files.

I am going to go ahead and start a new thread so that we have a place to link to the files that don't work anymore.

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/32071

Miss POI

Does Not Work with GPX Files Only

Loader 2.6.0 does not work using only GPX files - at least on my system. Tried it yesterday and had to go back to 2.5.4

POI Loader 2.6.0

Thanks for the info!! grin

--
D.H.

Automatic check & replace?

miss poi wrote:

Well I guess I know what I will be doing over the next few weeks.

Miss POI

Weeks? Why not finish tomorrow? LOL! If you have a list of files with URL (direct computer access would be better!), it is easy to scan all the CSV files to detect commas inside a column. I could make a program to help you with this.

If you want to do this manually, just open the file in Excel and make a global replace from "," to something else. I would avoid a space and use maybe ";" which is a normal separator.

Let me know.

Hey Charlie, Problem solved

Hey Charlie,

Problem solved on my both Nuvi.

Thanks for helping!

You really deserve the COY award. I never doubt it.

--
Street Pilot C340, nuvi 265WT, Mio Moov 300, nuvi 255W, Navigon 2100 (Retired)

will fix on-the-fly during download

turboccc wrote:

... If you have a list of files with URL (direct computer access would be better!), it is easy to scan all the CSV files to detect commas inside a column. I could make a program to help you with this.

If you want to do this manually, just open the file in Excel and make a global replace from "," to something else. I would avoid a space and use maybe ";" which is a normal separator.

Let me know.

I will start by modifying POI Factory's "Garmin CSV" download program to automatically strip out the commas as the file is being downloaded from the site.

If this test works well, I might use similar code to go ahead and directy fix the original files (or at least show a warning on the check for errors page).

Also, I see the note from Garmin mentions there is a maximum size for the description field. I can automatically truncate longer fields during download at the same time commas are stripped.

Does anyone know the maximum field sizes allowed by the new version of POI Loader?

.

JM wrote:

Also, I see the note from Garmin mentions there is a maximum size for the description field. I can automatically truncate longer fields during download at the same time commas are stripped.

Does anyone know the maximum field sizes allowed by the new version of POI Loader?

It seems like the csv format is going to impose a lot of limitations, so I'm curious why we don't make gpx the default format on this site?

If folks need a csv file for their particular gps device there are numerous free converter programs available.

CSV vs GPX.

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

It seems like the csv format is going to impose a lot of limitations, so I'm curious why we don't make gpx the default format on this site?

If folks need a csv file for their particular gps device there are numerous free converter programs available.

I respectfully disagree with this. The maintainers should be able to decide which format works best for them to create and manage the files.

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

gpx

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

....It seems like the csv format is going to impose a lot of limitations, so I'm curious why we don't make gpx the default format on this site?....

That's a longer term type of change. Right now I'm going to put in a quick fix. Once we're back to a stable spot, we can look at what makes sense for the long term.

2.60

JM wrote:
turboccc wrote:

... If you have a list of files with URL (direct computer access would be better!), it is easy to scan all the CSV files to detect commas inside a column. I could make a program to help you with this.

If you want to do this manually, just open the file in Excel and make a global replace from "," to something else. I would avoid a space and use maybe ";" which is a normal separator.

Let me know.

I will start by modifying POI Factory's "Garmin CSV" download program to automatically strip out the commas as the file is being downloaded from the site.

If this test works well, I might use similar code to go ahead and directy fix the original files (or at least show a warning on the check for errors page).

Also, I see the note from Garmin mentions there is a maximum size for the description field. I can automatically truncate longer fields during download at the same time commas are stripped.

Does anyone know the maximum field sizes allowed by the new version of POI Loader?

I just sent another email to Garmin for answer to how many characters you can have in the description.I know a lot of files may have overdone the description field.I have changed several I downloaded.Because the arrival notice is based on what is in Column c and if to long it gets cut off.Some file don't even have it.Making it very hard when you use the all tab for custom pois.You have no idea what it is when it pulls up the ones closest to you.

--
Charlie. Nuvi 265 WT and Nuvi 2597 LMT. Android Here WeGo - Offline Maps & GPS.
3 4 5
<<Page 2>>