Class action lawsuit against Garmin

 

See https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-pro...

Seems like an individual feels that a device with lifetime updates, should also have sufficient hardware to accomplish those updates.

--
John from PA
Page 1>>

LOL

The lawyers hope for a super large reward.

I wonder what device she bought and how much it was?

Class Action lawsuit. OK, if she wins how much do I get for each unit I own?

--
I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

Consumers Get Little in Class Action Law Suits

The lawyers get the big pay out and the consumers get virtually nothing. In the scheme of things it would cost less just to simply upgrade the GPS unit.

Maybe they need to join POI Factory.

Many of our POI Factory members are still regularly updating maps on very old Garmin's. Yes, it requires purchasing a $10 SD card, doing some reading of our FAQ's to find the best approach for updating a specific model, and sometimes a little tinkering to get it done. But POI Factory members have proven over and over again that most Garmin models sold with lifetime map updates can still be updated.

I would say this lawsuit is a waste of time and money.

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

But then there are

alandb wrote:

Many of our POI Factory members are still regularly updating maps on very old Garmin's. Yes, it requires purchasing a $10 SD card, doing some reading of our FAQ's to find the best approach for updating a specific model, and sometimes a little tinkering to get it done. But POI Factory members have proven over and over again that most Garmin models sold with lifetime map updates can still be updated.I would say this lawsuit is a waste of time and money.

many purchasers of a Garmin that do not even know that the unit has/may have a lifetime map update and even if they know they have no idea how to update the maps.
You have to realize people here are generally more savvy and aware than the general public.

I have a number of friends who have LM and each time we get a new map update I remind them by email to do the update, otherwise they do not even know.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, SmartDrive 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Two people I know: One says

Two people I know:

One says he cannot be bothered "wasting" his time updating the maps a couple of times a year.

The other does not own a computer, and uses a public computer at the library when needed. Receives email on her phone. So she will never update either.

We are probably a small percentage of Garmin owners who bother to update maps.

I wonder if Garmin has any stats on how many serial numbers get updated versus those that don't update.

--
I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

I’ve got a Nuvi 350...

...that I bought back in 2007 or 2008 that is still receiving updates and functions just fine. It doesn’t hold the entire US like it did when I bought it, but there are many more POI’s in the database now than there was back in 2006 when the 350 was first introduced. With that being said, the 350 still works just fine. A GPS is basically a computer and we all know that they don’t last forever, so why should a GPS be any different. I don’t think that the lawsuit stands any chance in a court of law. I am quite sure that in all of the Garmin legalize there is a few words that will cover this situation.

--
It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. ----George Washington

I'd swear that I bought my 350 in 2002

maddog67 wrote:

...that I bought back in 2007 or 2008 that is still receiving updates and functions just fine. It doesn’t hold the entire US like it did when I bought it, but there are many more POI’s in the database now than there was back in 2006 when the 350 was first introduced. With that being said, the 350 still works just fine. A GPS is basically a computer and we all know that they don’t last forever, so why should a GPS be any different. I don’t think that the lawsuit stands any chance in a court of law. I am quite sure that in all of the Garmin legalize there is a few words that will cover this situation.

Bought it off the back off a truck for about $ 320.00 because I wanted it to help me drive to and within Mexico. I even found a company in Mexico who made their own Mexico Garmin maps which worked from an SD card. Because they cost about $ 250.00 it was done for 3 Garmins at the time and we split the cost. Two 350's and a 250.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, SmartDrive 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

You could be right

I was thinking that they came out about 2006 but I very well could be wrong. I thought they came out a couple of years before I bought mine which was about 2008 but as I’be gotten older, I have a tendency to under estimate time. confused

--
It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. ----George Washington

Mine's a 1450

maddog67 wrote:

...that I bought back in 2007 or 2008 that is still receiving updates and functions just fine. It doesn’t hold the entire US like it did when I bought it, but there are many more POI’s in the database now than there was back in 2006 when the 350 was first introduced. With that being said, the 350 still works just fine. A GPS is basically a computer and we all know that they don’t last forever, so why should a GPS be any different. I don’t think that the lawsuit stands any chance in a court of law. I am quite sure that in all of the Garmin legalize there is a few words that will cover this situation.

I have a Nuvi 1450 that's about 10 years old. When I got it, I put an SD card in it which I haven't touched since. I install every map as it comes out (all of North America, Mexico, and the islands) and everything still works well. By the way, filing a lawsuit and winning the lawsuit are two entirely differently things.

Phil

--
Phil in Mentor, Ohio -- Garmin Nuvi 1450

a good week

to all!

Ambulance chaser's

File a bunch of Suits and some will settle, often cheaper then defending. We need to fix our Tort System, but wait, why? The people who now benefit from "Ambulance Chasing" are the ones who would be fixing it, never happen!

760

Still updating the trusty 760. People are weird. You can sue anybody for anything. it's nuts.

--
GPSMAP 76CSx - nüvi 760 - nüvi 200 - GPSMAP 78S

OOOOOOPS

maddog67 wrote:

I was thinking that they came out about 2006 but I very well could be wrong. I thought they came out a couple of years before I bought mine which was about 2008 but as I’be gotten older, I have a tendency to under estimate time. confused

I think I'm suffering from CRS myself. You're closer at the year than I, maddog67.

I checked Wikipedia and they say the 300 series came out in 2005. That would mean I bought it in 2005. Now thinking back very carefully I seem to recall using MS Streets & Trips on my first few times driving to Mexico with the laptop on the passenger seat and a GPS hockey puck plugged into a USB port. Great at the time but a modern Garmin beats it all to heck.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, SmartDrive 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Reason for Changing Perceptions of Time as We Age

Maddog67 touched upon this, with which I'm certain many of us identify. Interestingly, I recently came across this (under 8 minutes) explanation of Why Life Seems to Speed Up as We Age.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIx2N-viNwY

POI Factory FAQs.

Melaqueman wrote:
maddog67 wrote:

I was thinking that they came out about 2006 but I very well could be wrong. I thought they came out a couple of years before I bought mine which was about 2008 but as I’be gotten older, I have a tendency to under estimate time. :???:

I think I'm suffering from CRS myself. You're closer at the year than I, maddog67.

I checked Wikipedia and they say the 300 series came out in 2005. That would mean I bought it in 2005. Now thinking back very carefully I seem to recall using MS Streets & Trips on my first few times driving to Mexico with the laptop on the passenger seat and a GPS hockey puck plugged into a USB port. Great at the time but a modern Garmin beats it all to heck.

You can usually find answers to questions like this in the POI Factory FAQ's (Garmin GPS Models | Release Date History).

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

Thanks alandb

alandb wrote:
Melaqueman wrote:
maddog67 wrote:

I was thinking that they came out about 2006 but I very well could be wrong. I thought they came out a couple of years before I bought mine which was about 2008 but as I’be gotten older, I have a tendency to under estimate time. confused

I think I'm suffering from CRS myself. You're closer at the year than I, maddog67.

I checked Wikipedia and they say the 300 series came out in 2005. That would mean I bought it in 2005. Now thinking back very carefully I seem to recall using MS Streets & Trips on my first few times driving to Mexico with the laptop on the passenger seat and a GPS hockey puck plugged into a USB port. Great at the time but a modern Garmin beats it all to heck.

You can usually find answers to questions like this in the POI Factory FAQ's (Garmin GPS Models | Release Date History).

(I had forgotten all about this topic even though I had read it numerous times.) Thanks for all of the work you do in keeping this updated. I would have saved a lot of brain cells if I had remembered this and just went and looked it up. I'll again attribute this to old age or at least the threat of old age creeping up on me. grin

--
It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. ----George Washington

not surprise

One of my friend who live alone does not have internet at home.
She regularly goes to fastfood store for free wifi to get bulk data downloaded. Think Garmin should provide such capabilities.

KenSny wrote:

Two people I know:

One says he cannot be bothered "wasting" his time updating the maps a couple of times a year.

The other does not own a computer, and uses a public computer at the library when needed. Receives email on her phone. So she will never update either.

We are probably a small percentage of Garmin owners who bother to update maps.

I wonder if Garmin has any stats on how many serial numbers get updated versus those that don't update.

Garmin lies

"However, McVetty says the maps are not able to be updated for the entirety of the useful life of the Garmin or however long Garmin receives traffic data because the Garmin’s memory is not sufficient to receive and utilize the updates."

That's the official Garmin Party Line but in fact my approx. 16 year old Garmin 276C can work just fine with the new maps but it doesn't work with Garmin Express and Garmin won't provide the maps on MapUpdater any more and they have their tech support shills (except John!) telling people that it's because the new maps are too big but that's not true. See here for some more:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/48760#comment-485701

Lifetime update advertising.

Can you imagine? Expecting hardware to last as long as the advertised selling point, lifetime updates. Shocking. What a shock it would be if some company advertised "Lifetime updates but we don't expect the hardware to last more than 10 years".

Class Action/Harsh Action

werewolf wrote:

....... That's the official Garmin Party Line but in fact my approx. 16 year old Garmin 276C can work just fine with the new maps but it doesn't work with Garmin Express and Garmin won't provide the maps on MapUpdater any more and they have their tech support shills (except John!) telling people that it's because the new maps are too big but that's not true. See here for some more:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/48760#comment-485701

Yeah well i'm not a lawyer but have a rudimentary understanding of consumer law generally because of my marketing background. I hope (for the sake of Ms. McVetty et al.) that the class action filed by Sheehan & Associates is on the basis of "no win no fee" or the claimants may find themselves considerably out of pocket. Garmin will throw everything at this to defend it or it'll open the floodgates for anyone with an older LM device to have a go at them. My understanding reading their nüMaps Lifetime conditions (linked below) is that they are specifically stating that at some point the device may not be capable of being undated so by their definition it then becomes life-expended and therefore no longer qualifies. They've had a similar type of disclaimer linked to LM mapping for as long as I can remember and if the consumer doesn't read it before purchase it's hardly a valid reason to take exception after the event.
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/lmdisclaimer
It'll be interesting to see the court decision.

 

panama wrote:

The lawyers get the big pay out and the consumers get virtually nothing. In the scheme of things it would cost less just to simply upgrade the GPS unit.

Where did you see what consumers get? It looks like the lawsuit has barely been filed, let alone a judge certify any payments to anyone.

Moderator Note

A comment was removed.

Please keep the discussion friendly and polite.

What Are POI Factory's Forum Rules?
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/28855

my deleted comment

Dropbear is my friend. I was just kidding him.

Yes. Werewolf is my friend. My standards are low.

werewolf wrote:

Dropbear is my friend. I was just kidding him.

Dammit Melvin. You should know by now that your 'kidding' is just a normal person's 'insult'. However sorry i missed it so maybe email or PM it's content to me so i can pretend to be grossly offended then shoot you down in flames [privately of course].

Back on topic, i've been wondering which devices Ms McVetty and her co-suitor/s own because if they have very old devices without media card support (e.g. SP 2720) or ones with only Garmin Datacard for detail maps (e.g. your GPSMAP276c) then they'll be pushing the dark-stuff uphill imho to argue those devices aren't effectively 'life-expended'. Even if they have later Mass Storage capable devices they'll still be hard-pressed to claim any great loss as all modern MSM automotive devices can additionally use an SD or microSD if the entire EOM LM entitlement won't fit on the internal memory. Either way my layman's opinion is they're unlikely to succeed in court. I guess they're hoping for a confidential payout offer prior to trial as a 'commercial decision' by Garmin. Fat chance i reckon, too much at stake

You'll get a $5 voucher that

You'll get a $5 voucher that can be used on the purchase of a new Garmin nuvi. The lawyers will get the millions. Actually, this will be considered frivolous (IMO)and thrown out. If Garmin does lose, it will mean the end of lifetime updates (either by buying it or included with the device). It will cost each time you want to update the maps. The lifetime of the device will be removed and attached to a specific period of time, most likely 2 years, if they even stay in the consumer GPS market. Their bread and butter is in the other GPS markets (aircraft, marine etc.)

if

KenSny wrote:

The lawyers hope for a super large reward.

I wonder what device she bought and how much it was?

Class Action lawsuit. OK, if she wins how much do I get for each unit I own?

If you want to see how embarrassing class actions are, look to the Takata scandal where people were killed. I've seen on forums that people said they got $32, etc. Now google how much the lead attorneys got. Just feel good that you're not a person who would look to gain from peoples' suffering.

Lawyers Win, Garmin Loses, We Lose

I agree that the lawyers will be the only winners, and Garmin will have less motivation to offer life time maps or even make stand-alone Garmin units in the future.

Final result: We loose and the "class" shoots themselves and the rest of us in the foot too.

--
rvOutrider

Garmin Lifetime map history.

dropbear wrote:

Back on topic, i've been wondering which devices Ms McVetty and her co-suitor/s own because if they have very old devices without media card support (e.g. SP 2720) or ones with only Garmin Datacard for detail maps (e.g. your GPSMAP276c) then they'll be pushing the dark-stuff uphill imho to argue those devices aren't effectively 'life-expended'. Even if they have later Mass Storage capable devices they'll still be hard-pressed to claim any great loss as all modern MSM automotive devices can additionally use an SD or microSD if the entire EOM LM entitlement won't fit on the internal memory. Either way my layman's opinion is they're unlikely to succeed in court. I guess they're hoping for a confidential payout offer prior to trial as a 'commercial decision' by Garmin. Fat chance i reckon, too much at stake

Garmin announced the lifetime map update subscription as an "add on" product in late fall of 2008 and issued the first map update under the subscriptions in 2009. At that time the 2x5 and 7x5 series nuvi's were the current models and none of them were offered with lifetime map subscriptions. You had to buy the lifetime subscription at $129 for each device. I am not certain, but I think the 1xxx series nuvi's were the first ones offered with the bundled "LM" subscription, and that happened later in their life cycle, around 2010. That is how I remember it anyway.

It seems to me that this class action suit would not be valid for any devices that were not sold as "LM" models (anything older than the nuvi 1xxx LM models).

Model history: http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42240

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

Meaning of the word "lifetime"

.....

Meaning of the word "lifetime"

AlanB - Yes i purchased the "lifetime" map updates for my Garmin 276C a number of years ago. I don't recall any qualifying words for the word lifetime included in their advertisement unless it was buried in microscopic print someplace which would in and of itself be deliberately deceptive. Lifetime presumably means lifetime, the lifetime of the device. My device is the 16 year old 276C, probably Garmin's best device ever.

I've been having difficulty updating the maps on it for years now and when I've called their tech support the tech guys* AND their supervisors have been lying to me telling me that i can't get any new map updates because the new ones are incompatible with my old device because my device doesn't have enough memory - and then i managed to update it when they finally put them on Mapupdater and they were all in fact perfectly compatible with my device!

But now they've stopped putting them on MapUpdater and the G Express won't work with my 276 which is still alive and well and living, which is to say within it's lifetime, but they won't update my maps even tho i bought Lifetime map updates. Words have meanings tho Garmin's lawyers, and all lawyers, will try to mess with them.

Class action lawsuits as explained above: too true.

Dropbear (not his real name) - I'll see if i can find it and then i will send it to you if it is still within its lifetime.

* with the exception of John R, a good guy, but he no longer seems to work there. Figures.

The danger for Garmin

In this scenario is the average juror may well agree...when you think about it logically, what’s the point of lifetime updates if the device will not easily store the information. Garmin could easily remedy the situation by making internal memory 128 gb or more...if they can fit a card they can fit an internal memory that doesn’t require a card.

--
"You can't get there from here"

Memory isn't the problemaaaa

TMK wrote:

In this scenario is the average juror may well agree...when you think about it logically, what’s the point of lifetime updates if the device will not easily store the information. Garmin could easily remedy the situation by making internal memory 128 gb or more...if they can fit a card they can fit an internal memory that doesn’t require a card.

The memory on my 276C is fine for all the new maps. They just stopped putting the updates on the compatible updater so then they say, sorry lifetime is up.

Memory isn't the problem

TMK wrote:

In this scenario is the average juror may well agree...when you think about it logically, what’s the point of lifetime updates if the device will not easily store the information. Garmin could easily remedy the situation by making internal memory 128 gb or more...if they can fit a card they can fit an internal memory that doesn’t require a card.

The memory on my 276C is fine for all the new maps. They just stopped putting the updates on the compatible updater so then they say, sorry lifetime is up.

So since I can't update my

So since I can't update my computer to windows 10 because of graphic hardware issues, maybe I can get a new computer and lots of money from HP or MS. I really wouldn't care who.

An LM by any other name .....

alandb wrote:

Garmin announced the lifetime map update subscription as an "add on" product in late fall of 2008 and issued the first map update under the subscriptions in 2009. At that time the 2x5 and 7x5 series nuvi's were the current models and none of them were offered with lifetime map subscriptions. You had to buy the lifetime subscription at $129 for each device. I am not certain, but I think the 1xxx series nuvi's were the first ones offered with the bundled "LM" subscription, and that happened later in their life cycle, around 2010. That is how I remember it anyway.

It seems to me that this class action suit would not be valid for any devices that were not sold as "LM" models (anything older than the nuvi 1xxx LM models). ......

Your recollections align with mine as to the introduction of LM subscriptions both initially as an "add-on" and later as OEM LM bundled with the device. However i don't agree with your musing that those not sold as "LM" models wouldn't qualify to be part of the class action. Garmin has one sole notice for LM Terms and Conditions which imposes exactly the same conditions and disclaimers on LM whether purchased separately or bundled. The very first sentence: "If you purchase a nüMaps Lifetime subscription (sold separately) or if your Garmin product comes bundled with a nüMaps Lifetime or other lifetime map subscription, you will receive map data updates when and as such updates are made available on Garmin.com during the useful life of 1 compatible Garmin product or as long as Garmin receives map data from a third party supplier, whichever is shorter". Effectively the subscriptions are the same in a legal sense so it seem to me the main test is whether the device is 'life-expired'. Whether the LM was purchased separately or bundled is immaterial i'd think. The thrust of the plaintiff's argument apparently will be that Garmin is unreasonable to claim a device is 'life-expired' because it's original memory capacity is now insufficient to contain the subscription's mapping area.

I have a StreetPilot 2720 which has an NA LM subscription purchased for it by a previous owner. Like werewolf's GPSMAP 276c it too cannot be updated directly via GarminExpress (because they aren't Mass Storage devices) however they can be indirectly updated using a tricked-up GarminDevice.xml on a usb stick or media card to download the .GMAP folder to PC then by selecting only the required tiles using MapInstall the connected device can be easily updated. MapInstall operates in Garmin Mode, unlike GarminExpress which exclusively uses Mass Storage Mode. Both his 276C and my 2720 are indisputably life-expired under Garmin's T&Cs and imo they could quite-reasonably terminate both LM entitlements. However i also have an early issue (non-LM) nuvi 40 also bought second-hand which has Lower 48 as OEM mapping for which the previous owner bought North America LM as an "add on" and I'd be very upset if Garmin stopped honoring that subscription.

Sorry about the double post

Sorry about the double post above and all the a's after "problem". I'd edit/delete it if i could but i can't. I typed it on a little phone screen and i was in a hurry. The vodka and drugs had nothing to do with it.

See, here's what bugs me about all this, and it's not money and it's not even the principal of the thing, tho actully that bugs me too for the reasons i gave above. But the main thing is I'm so used to the 176/276C system because I've had the 276 for 16 years, and before that i had the 176 for more years, and I don't even know what can properly replace it.

Red herring

ruggb wrote:

So since I can't update my computer to windows 10 because of graphic hardware issues, maybe I can get a new computer and lots of money from HP or MS. I really wouldn't care who.

Did you purchase an extra cost lifetime windows update for your computer? Besides i have no hardware or other issues utilizing the new maps. Garmin is lying when they say i do. They just arbitrarily stopped updating my maps.

Not sure I understand

Are there units that had lifetime maps that did not have an SD card slot?

While some class actions have merit..

This one is a joke.

Lifetime?

Lifetime is as long as it lives.

It does not mean forever.

--
GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

"Lifetime is as long as it lives."

diesel wrote:

Lifetime is as long as it lives.

It does not mean forever.

Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of lifetime:

: the time during which a person is alive
: a very long time
: the time during which something lasts or is useful

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lifetime

"the time during which something lasts or is useful"

It lives and it lasts and it is useful. It doesn't say the time during which something lasts or is useful until someone in the sales department decides it's too old and ugly and declares it's lifetime is over.

"Tell the the jerk new maps won't work in it because they're too new. Sell him something new. We'll never make any money if the cheap bastards keep the things forever!"

no sd card slot

fkent484 wrote:

Are there units that had lifetime maps that did not have an SD card slot?

My 276C only uses Garmin's proprietary memory cards. I bought the lifetime map updates separately.

A question

How hard is it for them to put the new maps on MapUpdater or MapInstall or whatever it's called besides the Garmin Express? Is it easy? A huge hassle?

Making lifetime maps

Making lifetime maps transferable to a new Device would be awesome. Also losing lifetime maps cause you didn't update in more than a year is stupid.

Nobody Here!

john9871 wrote:

Making lifetime maps transferable to a new Device would be awesome. Also losing lifetime maps cause you didn't update in more than a year is stupid.

To be honest, I haven't heard of anyone losing this. Anecdotal comments suggest in excess of 3 years, and still updated. I updated my sister's unit that was 2 1/2 years our.

--
Frank Nuvi 3597LMT 37.322760, -79.511267

Not bundled as an "LM" model

fkent484 wrote:

Are there units that had lifetime maps that did not have an SD card slot?

"LM" bundling started during the runout of nuvi 1xxx series. All bundled LM devices therefore have a microSD slot.

There are older devices such as my StreetPilot 2720 which only have on-board memory and no media card slot *at all*. It has an LM subscription which was bought as an "add-on" well after purchase of the new device. Then there are others such as werewolf's GPSMAP276c which have only the Garmin DataCard as additional memory (limited to 512MB as OEM or 2GB as unauthorized aftermarket upgrade), or the SP26x0 series which use a CF card. Previously all those devices could have an add-on LM sub purchased for them but i doubt Garmin would allow a purchase to go thru now.

I recently (within the last month) updated...

...my daughter’s 50LM unit which hadn’t been updated for the last 2 years, without any problems. This goes to show that Garmin is pretty lax about the time limit. I also have a Nuvi 350 that hasn’t been able to hold the entire US map for the last 3 years or so because of space limitations. Am I going to sue Garmin because the unit doesn’t have the required storage capacity? No! This would be like buying a 2 shot Derringer and then suing the company when they brought out a 6 round revolver because the Derringer couldn’t hold 6 rounds. I hope everyone understands the analogy.

--
It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. ----George Washington

Nuvi 855

When I bought my Nuvi 855 it did not come with Lifetime maps. I purchased the Lifetime maps afterwards and use the cloning method
storing the map on a SD card.
It's not my primary GPS any longer but I still update the map.

Should I now get in on the class action because the 855 cannot accept the full NA maps any longer???

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, SmartDrive 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

.

Frivolous Lawsuit

Will be interesting to see

Will be interesting to see how this goes.

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