Crossed the White Line at a Red Light Camera Intersection and Stopped
 10 years
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Today, my wife had stopped at a red light in a left turn lane along with a number of other cars that were ahead of her at a red light camera intersection. The light turned green and the cars ahead were all turning left. By the time she had approached the white line of the crosswalk to turn left behind the other cars, the light had already turned yellow and she decided to simply stop rather than continue. But by the time she had fully stopped, she had gone past the white line and had entered into the crosswalk with her tires and the light had turned red.
It is hard to determine from recall whether 1. she had already crossed the white line and after that the light turned red and--still in motion--she finally stopped in the middle of the crosswalk or 2. the light turned red before she had crossed the white line and she proceeded to cross the white line with the light being red and she stopped in the middle of the crosswalk, of course, just past that white line. At any rate, we shall see whether or not a ticket will arrive in the mail for that. My wife does not believe that a ticket will show up in the mail. As for me, I don't know what will happen because I have heard such crazy stories about these things. I suppose time will tell.
Lastly, I suppose the key issue is how a ticket is generated in this situation: whether a ticket is generated based upon a technicality--that is, crossing the white line on a red light--or whether a ticket is generated based upon something more meaningful--actually crossing the the white line at a red light and continuing on through the intersection to complete the turn. It seems that common sense dictates that running a red light should be the violation and not simply stopping at the crosswalk on a red light.
POI Files
seems like
Instead, people complain that the cameras are a "cash grab" and have nothing to do with safety or altering driver behavior. Of course, that position ignores the fact that the cameras only grab cash from people who are breaking a law.
The technology works..... when the cam operators set up the enforcement arguments properly.
Shortening times for green -> yellow and yellow -> red light transition times (likely rare but apparently it's been done more than once) cause otherwise law abiding drivers to receive tickets they would have not otherwise received.
What the technology and the tickets don't seem capable of doing is assigning moving points to the appropriate offenders, and this becomes one place where the technology and the law goes to pieces that helps the observation cameras are a "CASH GRAB" instead of safety item.
The person who's car gets say 40 red-light tickets and 20 speed cam tickets only pays fines. However, if that same person received traffic citations from an officer, those would be moving violations and if the DMV, MVA or other drivers licensing entity followed their rules, that person's license would likely be suspended or revoked. Cams' just can't do that.
My single biggest complaint about citations for RLC & Speed Cmas' is, the monitory penalty isn't high enough.
If the cost of getting a RLC or Speed-Cam ticket were say $40 for the first one in any 3 years, $300 for the second one in any of the same 3 years, and $500 for the third and more in the same 3 years, then I'd think the "safety Cams" were intended to promote safety as repeat offenders would certainly feel the financial pain and be more likely to modify their behavior accordingly.
But, that's just where I sit on these issues..
they simply become part of life, and for the vast majority of people, it truly doesn't matter one way or the other. Now, if you feel the $ fine is too low, I bet it would not sit right with you when vehicles cross the double yellow on red, and go through the intersection making a left turn. They have to be scot free, I have seen this a bunch of times, more often than not professional drivers.
I guess CA is the other extreme, beyond $500 for a fine.
I think we agree, the technology works, plain and simple. Again, I think the reason there is question is that the majority have never gotten such a ticket, so they are skeptical.
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That first flash is preparing the before image of the violation. The second flash occurs after the vehicle has passed the line on the red signal. If you don't pass on red, there is no second flash, hence no ticket. If it's bright enough, the strobes may not flash at all. I have triggered many a flash by approaching the intersection at a decent speed, but have stopped. I'm hoping to wear out those strobes prematurely by popping them often!
I haven seen camera flashes for no apparent reason. Anyone know why?
I suspect the flash bulb manufacturers have programmed over-use into the system, to increase replacement-bulb sales.
Actually, they are setup to err on the side of taking too many pictures rather than too few. Better to capture many non-violations than miss the revenue from a single missed violation.
:razz:
I think we agree, the technology works, plain and simple. Again, I think the reason there is question is that the majority have never gotten such a ticket, so they are skeptical.
And on that note, we'll likely agree the technology of toasters works too...
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!
If speed cameras are about
If speed cameras are about safety, explain to me why the private American company who collects a commission on speed offences is allowed to set up in a school zone at 11PM on a Sunday night in the middle of the summer.
Speed limit is set artificially low on a main thoroughfare just to raise revenue. In most places, a main road is 60 KPH. On several main roads here, it drops to 50 for a few blocks around the speed camera and back up to 60 a few blocks later. This is transparently unethical. Plus, sitting in school zones at midnight in the summer is HIGHLY unethical. But no one complains because the city is now drunk on the ticket revenue and everyone feels "Well, if you don't speed, you won't pay a ticket."
But keep in mind these are not the police who run these speed cameras or mobile photo radar units. It is private security guards working for a company who makes a percentage of every ticket. Go slightly over the posted speed (about 31 MPH) and you get a ticket at 38 MPH.
Right turn
Are the rules any different for right turn on red? I live in Florida. Will the camera flash if the sign says no turn on red and I do anyway after stopping?
Are the rules any different for right turn on red? I live in Florida. Will the camera flash if the sign says no turn on red and I do anyway after stopping?
Not as long as you make a full stop before the stop line.
not sure I understand the question
If speed cameras are about safety, explain to me why the private American company who collects a commission on speed offences is allowed to set up in a school zone at 11PM on a Sunday night in the middle of the summer.
Speed limit is set artificially low on a main thoroughfare just to raise revenue. In most places, a main road is 60 KPH. On several main roads here, it drops to 50 for a few blocks around the speed camera and back up to 60 a few blocks later. This is transparently unethical. Plus, sitting in school zones at midnight in the summer is HIGHLY unethical. But no one complains because the city is now drunk on the ticket revenue and everyone feels "Well, if you don't speed, you won't pay a ticket."
But keep in mind these are not the police who run these speed cameras or mobile photo radar units. It is private security guards working for a company who makes a percentage of every ticket. Go slightly over the posted speed (about 31 MPH) and you get a ticket at 38 MPH.
They shouldn't setup during the summer? One would think that that would be the least intrusive time to do it. In NYC, the fines are only in effect when school is in session. What city are you describing? Sounds like maybe they need to call NYC and ask them how they can issue fines only when school is in session. Probably have to go into the app and set the hours of school. It's smarter than just a repeated weekly schedule, as they now have this thing called a computer. Can you imagine being stuck in the mentality of 1940 when NYC began to synchronize traffic signals? Could be that school was off on Monday, but the lights still flashed because the mechanical system does not know there is a holiday. That's gone with computer controls.
Stuff to keep in mind
Stuff to keep in mind
Local Legislation
They shouldn't setup during the summer? One would think that that would be the least intrusive time to do it. In NYC, the fines are only in effect when school is in session. What city are you describing?
I believe Chickenhawks was referring to local conditions in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
The Winnipeg Police Service web site actually states that speed limits and enforcement are in effect 24 hours per day in school and playground zones.
The web site also indicates that the individuals in the photo radar vehicles are provincially appointed peace officers. They may not be police officers but they are authorized enforcement officers.
Local Legislation
They shouldn't setup during the summer? One would think that that would be the least intrusive time to do it. In NYC, the fines are only in effect when school is in session. What city are you describing?
I believe Chickenhawks was referring to local conditions in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
The Winnipeg Police Service web site actually states that speed limits and enforcement are in effect 24 hours per day in school and playground zones.
The web site also indicates that the individuals in the photo radar vehicles are provincially appointed peace officers. They may not be police officers but they are authorized enforcement officers.
Each city has their on rules
Look for the rules at in your city. Each city has rules and posted on line.
Speed Cams Too?
That first flash is preparing the before image of the violation. The second flash occurs after the vehicle has passed the line on the red signal. If you don't pass on red, there is no second flash, hence no ticket. If it's bright enough, the strobes may not flash at all. I have triggered many a flash by approaching the intersection at a decent speed, but have stopped. I'm hoping to wear out those strobes prematurely by popping them often!
Do speed cameras do the same thing?
I'm really convinced
that the time is getting closer for front/rear cams to get installed (my hesitation now is the hardwiring and power). The cost is < $400, maybe the more we wait, like many things, it will drop another 25%.
This is real life, and I'll name the intersection for those familiar with my area.
Yesterday, I approached Broad St., traveling west on Vine St. A RLC intersection.
The countdown was at 9. As I got closer, a POS Mini cut me off, AND, an emergency vehicle traveling south blipped the intersection. These two actions reduced my time off of the initial "9" decision factor.
I proceeded into the intersection on green, it changed to yellow while I was in it, and I did not see red because I looked in my rearview to verify no flash.
This is real life, every day. The city is not going to be able to produce a video nor a snapshot of my car behind the line on red, and then proceeding through.
But, what if they do? If they do, I know it's false, and that they used technology to alter what really happened, but it would be my word against an altered video.
The above is far fetched, and I think very unlikely, but front and rear cams on my car could at least make it so it's your video against mine, they are different, yet only one event took place.
I stand by my reasoning that 4 y.o. playing ice hockey and soccer are able to stay onside, I am able to decide what to do given the above, it is unfathomable that traffic controls cause accidents, just not even remotely possible. Green? GO. Yellow? Proceed if safe, do not if unsafe. Red? Stop. That's not difficult at all.
traffic light (Stanmore UK)
Today at traffic light where I was suppose to go straight. By the time I reached the white line it was yellow light and I moved forward but in middle it turn red and I stopped before the “keep clear mark”. Its at Stanmore traffic light infront of spice rack restaurant. I didn’t spotted any camera.
My intension was not to cross traffic light but stopped at wrong line.Will I get a ticket and penalty point. Please help me as this dilemma is killing me.
What!! 2 DASH CAMS??? Whats wrong with this pic.. get 6 :)
I'm really convinced the time is getting closer for front/rear cams to get installed (my hesitation now is the hardwiring and power). The cost is < $400, maybe the more we wait, like many things, it will drop another 25%.
Dude / Dudette... I've had cam's in both windscreens for a while now... just make sure whatever cam(s) ewe get, have the ability to have all the LED's & screen displays completely turned off!!
Otherwise the light from a cam pointing out the rear windscreen might become a real pain in the tail as you traverse around...
Also, here's a little tip you might find interesting and maybe useful..
For the cam in the rear windscreen, don't have it directly in the middle of the glass, having it off to the right of center by a few units (inches / Cm's, I've got mine off by about 10 Cm) So when I look in the mirror I don't see the cam first... but YMMV
I stand by my reasoning that 4 y.o. playing ice hockey and soccer are able to stay onside, I am able to decide what to do given the above, it is unfathomable that traffic controls cause accidents, just not even remotely possible.
Green? GO.
Yellow? Proceed if safe, do not if unsafe.
Red? Stop.
That's not difficult at all.
Naw... you got it all wrong mate....
Green = Go Fast!
Yellow = Go Faster!!
Red = at least 1 more car!!!
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!
what if you back up after
what if you back up after you stop?