problem creating a school zone list

One of the things at work here may be the criteria that the device uses to trigger an alert.

For the moment, consider that the "route" is straight and can be visualized as a rectangle with the "route" as the centerline of this rectangle. Think of the centerline as running from the bottom of this page to its top. Your vehicle is traveling on this centerline.

The sides of this rectangle are 30 meters to the left and to the right of the centerline.

Now consider that there is a school located at the top of the rectangle and within 30 meters perpendicular to the centerline.

I the above criteria is met, then, when your vehicle reaches the alert distance from the top of the rectangle, an alert will sound.

Welcome to The Factory, cbpoi,

The link below is overkill, but the paragraph that starts Why TourGuides? may explain your findings:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42419

Switching from a standard Custom POI to a Custom TourGuide POI may cause all your expected alerts to sound. Remember that TourGuides require an associated audio file which must be a wav file for your nuvi 2495.

As jgermann stated, standard Custom alerts require the POI location (the lat/long you used for each school) to be "along the route," which means within about 100 feet of the roadway being travelled, regardless of the alert distance you set. Switching from a Custom POI "along the route" to a Custom TourGuide POI "alert radius" should help you.

The other option you mentioned of encoding multiple lat/long POIs for each school would also work without the need for TourGuides. In fact, it'd probably give you better results but at the expense of a lot of effort adding the extra POI locations.

Shout back with questions after reading the faq.

Here is how we submit POIs near schools in New York State for the poi-factory speed camera file:

Using the "add placemark" function in Google Earth, put a POI in front of the school in the middle of the street. One is enough if you load the POIs as speed alerts. Use "speed" in the filename. If the school has an entrance on another street, make one for that street also. POIs at each intersection is going overboard.

The alert distance depends on the speed of each POI loaded or the speed in the filename for the entire file.

Like jgermann says, speed and proximity alerts are "along the road." In my opinion, TourGuide radius alerts with your current POIs could possibly be made to work, but I feel a speed alert along the road would be more reliable, alerting at a consistent distance.

If it is too much work to create new POIs for all the schools, make a speed file with new POIs for the schools closest to where you drive. In another file, put the old POIs for all other schools for a radius alert.

dobs108

Great! Thanks for the many solutions and ideas. Will try out the tour guide idea first and the others if necessary. Much appreciated.

PS—and if your first post here is about a custom POI you created, we hope to see you here more often. In fact, if you're happy with your Winnipeg POI file, you should offer it here for others with Toonies in their pockets to download and use. I hope that Burger King doesn't ruin your THs! Cute story: I was in line (queued in Canuk-Speak?) at Tim Horton's in Whitehorse once and saw four RCMP folks ahead of me. They got donuts with their coffee so donuts and Law Enforcement must be at least North American if not global.

It could be quite a ways from the road because most schools are back from the road. That put put it out of reach on a "along the route" alert and could create quite a distance on a "TourGuide" alert.

cbpoi, have you checked this file:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/17686

Craig, I can attest to it being American and Canadian, but not MEXICAN even though Mexico is part of North America! Partially probably because donut places are few and far between in Mexico.

I am visiting Canada in two weeks and this is the first I have heard of Canuk-Speak! And what are Toonies?

dobs108

In Canada we have $1 and $2 coins instead of paper bills. The $1 coin is called a Loonie and the $2 coin is called a Toonie.

We also have Tim Hortons which is like Dunkin Donuts in the US. You'll hear it called Timmies or Tims or TH and in Toronto you'll find them on almost every block, at the airport, the train station, in gas stations but mostly in standalone restaurants which you will be able to find because the building will be surrounded by cars going through the drive thru.

Word is that the new Burger King - Tim Horton company will be called King Timmies.

But be careful while your here or you'll go home saying eh! at the end of every sentence, eh.

A Toonie is the equivalent of two Loonies.

Even some Canadians don't know that there are seven* animals on a Toonie so if you learn about them, you can surprise some of our northern neighbors. Be careful not to drop an old toonie in cold weather. There, you have all you need to know now.

Are you driving, flying or cruising up there? East or west side?

*Six are here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toonie#mediaviewer/File:Toonie_...

Craig, were there horses outside?

dobs108

Nope, Rex wasn't there, but I might have seen King:

http://sergeantpreston.com/sergeant-preston-of-the-yukon-tv-...

I only saw one mounted Mountie--in Dawson. Never saw the Beetle:

http://drivinginstructorblog.com/imagine-being-pulled-over-b...

"Well, King, it looks like this case is closed."

East side. Flying to Montreal. Cruising on a small ship northeast and stopping at Quebec City. Cruising to the Saguenay River. Returning to Quebec City. St. Lawrence Seaway to Lake Ontario. Oswego New York to the Erie Canal to the Hudson River to New York City.

Oh I see what a Toonie is!

dobs108

Final outcome: Couldn't get TourGuide to work on my 2595 - no icons showed up on the map and couldn't find anything online that said that model supports TourGuide.

Adding more points on streets adjacent to the schools works perfectly. In some ways it's better because I can select specific streets. Strangely, the city is not reducing speeds on major streets right next to schools. Seems to me more cars should mean more risk to the kids.

If I end up doing all the schools in the city I'll upload the list here so others can use it.

Thanks again for all your help and humo(u)r. Personally, I prefer paper money. Coins are no fun to handle at -40. Neither are donuts

All TourGuide POI files will support an icon if the POI icon name includes TourGuide as part of the name and the name matches the file name EXACTLY. TourGuides also require an audio file and that file also has to contain TourGuide as part of its name.

Let's try this.

Whenever you click on a link, hold down the CTRL key at the same time so that you open a new window - leaving this window open to come back to.

Create a new folder on your computer and name it "Winnipeg TourGuide".

Download the file at http://www.poi-factory.com/node/17686 into that new folder.

Rename the file to "Winnipeg Schools TourGuide.csv" by doing a copy of everything within the previous quotes.

Now there is a problem with this file and you will need to open it in Excel, go to line 230 and remove the characters @400 from the end of that line.

Now download the .mp3 file at http://www.poi-factory.com/node/11630. You will right-click on the link and choose "Save Link as..." Put the file in the same folder as Winnipeg Schools TourGuide.csv

Now, hold down the CTRL key as you click on the link to http://media.io/. When you are at Media.io, click on "SELECT FILES TO UPLOAD". Navigate to the folder containing
"school_zone slow down.mp3" and highlight that file. Then click "Open".

Click on the "WAV (.wav files)" button and then click on "CONVERT". Once the file is converted, click on the "Download ( )" button and place the file in the same folder it came from.

Now, rename "school_zone slow down.wav" to "Winnipeg Schools TourGuide.wav" by doing a copy of "Winnipeg Schools TourGuide" from this post and replacing "school_zone slow down" in the folder.

Now download the file at http://www.poi-factory.com/node/4218. You will right-click on the link and choose "Save Link as..." Put the file in the same folder as Winnipeg Schools TourGuide.csv

Now, rename "School1.bmp" to "Winnipeg Schools TourGuide.bmp" by doing a copy of "Winnipeg Schools TourGuide" from this post and replacing "School1" in the folder.

If you have not already done so, download Sox.exe from
http://www.poi-factory.com/images/csv/sox-14-0-1.zip (remember to hold down the CTRL key also). You can put it in the "Winnipeg TourGuide" folder also.

Unzip the file and copy sox.exe to C:\Program Files (x86)\Garmin\POI Loader.

Now you are ready to attach your 2595 and run POI Loader. (I have a 2595 and I am doing this also).

Let the POI Loader find the 2595 and agree to Install new custom POIs. On the next screen point POI Loader to the
Winnipeg TourGuide folder. You likely want to use Meters and KPH (I will use Feet and MPH). Make sure that POI Loader will proceed in "Manual" mode before clicking "Next".

Click "This file contains proximity alert points" and then press the radio button for "Alert when you get close to a point". For the distance, you might use 200 meters (I will use 600 feet). Click next and you should load 264 new locations to your 2595.

Some final thought. All nuvis can create a TourGuide. However, the character string "TourGuide" must contain a capital "T" and a capital "G". People often miss this.

Further, for TourGuides to work, there must be an audio file. The 2595 does not have a .mp3 player (like my 765 does) so you have to to use a .wav file. The .bmp file does not have to be there but it does help display the locations.

Note that the fact that there is a .zip file, a .exe file, and a .mp3 file in this folder will not impact what POI Loader will do. POI Loader only cares about .csv, .gpx, .mp3, .wav, and .bmp files. Since the .mp3 file is not associated with a POI file (ie., .csv or .gpx), it is ignored, as are the other extensions.

This poi-factory file is out of date (in the sense that it has not been updated since 2008 and I would think there must be at least one new school that has been built) and your own file may very well be better. Hopefully you will report that this exercise works for you

This Winnipegger would happily pay a twoonie for the file.... thanks for working on it.

Just in case some members decided to follow the exercise above, let me add some comments.

On my 2595, when I do
Where To? > Categories > [down arrow 3x] Custom POIs > Winnipeg Schools TourGuide, I can see the closest 50 schools. If I select one of them, and then press the "i" symbol at the bottom of the screen, I see the "School" symbol on the map and am given a "Play Audio" button. When I press the "Play Audio" button, I hear the warning that will be given.

I have found myself in the past that it is awfully hard to tell the difference in US paper currency in a bar. They all look alike.

Canadian Paper (Now plastic) bills all have a different color. Which incidentally Americans seem to dislike in their own currency.

They're brilliant. Before I saw your reply I created a simple csv file by manually selecting points on streets beside the schools. (Yes it took awhile even though I did only the schools I sometimes drive by. For the rest of the schools I am just using their formal addresses right now.) It was more work but better because I can select just certain streets.

But I will keep your instructions for future projects. Now that I know how to make and use POI lists I can see all kinds of uses.

Thanks jgermann

Thanks for the offer radiation_therapist_39. The file is far from perfect so you're welcome to it. Would appreciate feedback and corrections.

Besides, I don't know of an easy way to collect that toonie (other than be behind you in a Tim Horton's lineup

How do I get the file to you?

radiation_therapist has a "Contact" button on his/her account. Tap that to contact them and give them your email address. Once you two are in email contact, I expect that the POI file is tiny enough to be easily attached as an email attachment.

Thanks CraigW. I found the "Create content" link to upload POI files to the website but I'm not sure the list is good enough for that yet.

Yes, indeed, the Create Content is the way to go when offering a POI file to The Masses...at least to, The Factory Masses. A POI file need not be perfect since the author can always update the file. Submitted new POI files will be reviewed by TPTB before appearing on the site.

The one issue in your case is that there already is a Winnipeg School Zones POI file and I don't think two Winnipeg School Zones files are something the site would like. You may need to explain in the description that each school has multiple POI listings so as to allow for school zone alerts all around the school rather than just listing the school building's location. You could even explain in the description that TourGuides are not needed with this file to get alerts all around the school. Also, the POI file listing should distinguish itself somehow from the Winnipeg School Zones file that already exists...or somehow, work with the author of the current Winnipeg School Zones author to merge your data:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/17686

I am not really sure of this but I think that mikeymike - the author of the Winnipeg file has not posted in quite a while.

However, Craig gives good thoughts. My feeling is that old files need to be superceded but it is good manners to mention the original file author.

It is likely that most schools in Winnipeg are still in the same location. The old file would need to be checked, but probably contains good information.

dobs108

The Winnipeg school POI file that is on the website now contains all Winnipeg schools. The one I'm working on lists only the schools with 30 km/h speed limits.

I'll make sure to point that out if the file becomes good enough to post here. Thanks for the advice.

To be really precise, one should use the legal boundaries of each school zone as published by the City of Winnipeg. This is a LOT of work, as each school requires two and often three different zones to be set up. I have decided to tackle this task.

I am using RoadTrip, and placing a new POI in the middle of the street (instead of the actual address of the school) and then consulting the legal limits as published and putting in the appropriate radius proximity. They are all different, but I am finding that .2 kilometers proximity works for most main streets and .16 kilometers work for most side streets.

The reason why I am doing it this way in spite of the labour-intensiveness of the entries is that as opposed to a TourGuide file, one ONLY receives warnings on the streets that actually have 30 KPH limits, and one only receives warnings just before arriving at the actual legal limits of the zones. To me, too many warnings is almost as bad as not enough; I want a warning to be be 100% legitimate.

When someone uploads the gpx file to their GPS, they need to use manual settings, and set proximity alerts to ON, and alerts to sound about 30 KPH.

The only downside is that I wish there was a way for alerts to only sound if the speed is above 30 AND only between 0700 to 1730 Monday to Friday, September to June.

I have about 20 schools now loaded that I have entered and physically tested, and the file is looking good. I will post on here for others to try soon. It may take weeks of work before I get all the schools, but I want the warnings to be precise and when they sound, you know they are real.

Comments? Any Winnipeg drivers want to test out the early draft files? Anyone want me to start with any specific schools?

I am a newbie at making POI files, but as far as I can see, I can export the folder I created in RoadTrip as a single .gpx file, that others can use to upload to the GPS using POI Loader.

Wow, you make me want to visit Winnipeg soon. My only connection to the city right now is the two most current seasons of Ice Road Truckers. I did enjoy previous seasons of the series as I have travelled the Dempster to Inuvik and then flown up to Tuk.

Welcome to The Factory!

Thanks for the welcome. I did some work for Ice Road Truckers once, and they are all great folks.

Wow Chickenhawks, that is going to be fantastic. I've been placing points on only the affected streets and using a 300 meter proximity for the whole file. I'm about 2/3 through the schools but I guess I can drop it if you are doing such a detailed job.

One thing I've noticed is that my Garmin takes a little while to sound the alarm and for me to brake so I like to hear it well before the legal zone begins.

I thought I read something somewhere about alarms sounding only if the speed was over the selected limit.

Anyway, thanks for all your hard work.

The important point, however, is that "Speed" is the speed number in the file name or the individual POI names - NOT THE SPEED OF THE VEHICLE - as many think it is.

It sounds like you already did a ton of work anyway. Keep at it, and we can compare files once they are almost complete.

I use a 200 meter radius on the larger streets because it matches the actual legal boundaries as provided by the City of Winnipeg. In testing, it alerts you just before you reach the 30 KPH zone - about the same distance as they have posted the 'school zone ahead' sign. This gives me time to slow down before I get to the zone but not so much time that the alert goes off too much.

On some of the smaller side streets, the radius can be as little as 120 meters, although 160 meters is the most common side street distance. I read the actual legal definitions and place each radius accordingly. They are all different, and I always use the center of the road instead of the physical address of the school.

I have found some very interesting things. The school zones are not always a consistent distance on either side of the physical school itself, and I need to adjust the POI accordingly by sliding it up or down the street a bit. This is where RoadTrip comes in handy because I can see it on the map instead of guessing at the coordinates.

If there are a few more folks willing to try this out, I will post the incomplete gpx file, and members can drive past their local school to see if the alerts correspond to the warning signs. It appears there are about 200 schools with 30 KPH school zones, and I have mapped about 26 so far.

If there are Winnipeg members reading this, please post your local schools and I will start with those because they are the ones easiest to test the warning distances.

Yes, it is a lot of work, but will give more accurate results than TourGuide. Not every street beside a school has a 30 KPH zone, and I just don't like false alerts because people start to ignore them if they hear them too often.

Again, I just wish there was a way to add a time and day field so they only sounded 0700 to 1730, Monday to Friday.

Even if you don't get a "complete" list done, post the list you do have as many others (myself included) may have started a similar POI for Winnipeg and no sense all of use doing the same thing. Just start with a "quadrant" of the city or even a school Division and put it online. Ms POI can always combine them.

As in all 179 schools with multiple streets showing 30 KPH...lots of entries

Help me understand your use of the term "radius" and the statement will give more accurate results than TourGuide.

Thanks

Radius is a bit of a misnomer. When you place a waypoint on RoadTrip, you have the option of specifying the radius for a proximity alert. If I specify .16 kilometers, it draws a 160 meter circle around the waypoint on the map.

But if you are driving on a road, it ONLY alerts if you are above the speed as specified in POI loader when you upload to your GPS, and it ONLY alerts for the road it is actually located on (or very near.)

It is like a circle around the waypoint, but it only applies to the street it is located on.

(I am assuming if someone were in off-road mode, it would alert anywhere in that 160 meter circle.)

The reason this works much better than TourGuide that alerts on any street within that proximity alert circle is that all the school zones in Winnipeg have streets where they DON'T apply. It is rare that a school zone speed area would be found on all four streets surrounding the school. If you use TourGuide, you get a lot of false alerts.

If you put them in manually, street-by-street as some of us are doing, it only alerts on the actual streets that are signed to slow to 30.

Just uploaded a .csv file with a list of the 30 km/h zones near the 171 affected Winnipeg schools. It's not perfect but hopefully will be of some use until Chickenhawk finishes his more accurate list.

If you try it out please let me know if you find a 30 km/h zone that is not in the file or one that alarms too late.

I tested the file on about 20 schools and found that setting a 300 meter proximity during installation caused alerts to sound a little too early instead of too late. I wouldn't make it shorter because some waypoints depend on a lot of notice.

Quirks include differences between the city's official online list and the actual locations of signs. Also, my Garmin 2595 sometimes sounds the alarm even though the waypoint is much more than 30 meters down a different street that is somewhere ahead on a diagonal or a dogleg. Guess Garmin is being safe instead of sorry.

Anyway, hope this works well enough to save a few fines. I hear they are about $300!

Thanks very much to everyone who helped me past stumbling blocks.

To add to our files, here is a short test file of school zones in Winnipeg by the affected streets. It places a POI in the middle of the affected streets - not at the physical address of the school or its geographic location. Each POI is exactly centered according to the limits of each zone as published by the City of Winnipeg.

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/43384

It is important to note that every zone is different, and each street has been mapped so that a warning will go off if speed is above 30 KPH and you enter a school zone on an affected street. If I set the distance properly for each individual street, the warning should go off slightly before you see the warning sign for school zone ahead. Some streets have a proximity set as low as 120 meters, and others are as much as 200 meters. Every one was taken from the legal description of the zone. I am, of course, not responsible for any incorrect or missing information. This is a test file.

I managed to map about 40 out of the 171 schools so far. Let me know if this works, and what schools you want me to map next.

Chickenhawks, are your 40 schools in one part of the city? Which one?

They are spread out across the city. I am using this as a test file, so I have pockets of schools in the north end, St James, Fort Garry, Crescentwood and St Vital. I am also working the City of Winnipeg list from the bottom up, which is in alphabetical order of school divisions, but it ends with independant schools.

cb, which part of the city are you in and I will be sure to add those to the list first so you can test them against your own list.

One can either combine the lists, erase your lists from your GPS and add the new list for a week to see which works better, or do as I will do and run one list on my unit and another on the wife's that I borrow for a week.

Evidently not yet released for use

It was just uploaded yesterday and again today, so it may take a day or two to become active. I have been driving the streets (using simulator) and modified some of my distances a bit. I also added 7 new schools.

When the link works, remember to upload it into your GPS by using manual settings, and select "this file contains proximity points." Set your alert to speed, and to alert when speed is above 30 KPH. (If you feel brave, and to reduce gonging, set it to 35 KPH.)

I set my Garmin to alert with a constant gong.

So far, here is the CHANGE LOG:
Sept 13
- added 40 schools
Sept 14
- added 7 more schools (47 total - about 85 separate streets now mapped out)
- added 10 meters to some of the smaller proximity distances

Chickenhawks, I'm in Wolseley but don't rush to do that area. I'm away for awhile.

Glad to see you are making so much progress.

I have about 3/4 of Wolseley done already. Watch for an update in the next few days. I want to hold off until I can get about 80 schools mapped. (As of right now, it is about 60.)

Can you download my file yet or is it still awaiting approval from the forum?

Still waiting

The file is now ready for downloading and testing.

There are now 75 school zones (out of 171) mapped out in Winnipeg. The POIs only cover streets that are affected by 30 km/h speed limits and ignores streets where there is no speed limit reduction.

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/43384

Just to clarify - my file is not a list of all school zones in Winnipeg. It shows ONLY the streets affected by speed reduction requirements.

In Winnipeg, not every street around a school is affected. If one is driving through a school zone where there is no requirement to slow to 30, there is no alert shown.

Basically, it is designed to alert drivers on streets near elementary schools where one must slow from 50 to 30 km/hour without falsely alerting on streets where one does not need to slow down.

The whole point of this exercise (that will take many weeks of work) is that ALL drivers need to be extra alert in ALL school zones, but it is far batter to have a driver driving heads-up in a school zone watching for kids than looking at their watch and and calendars, and trying to read a lengthy sign that says "Speed 30. 07:00 to 17:30. Monday to Friday. September to June."

Note that the zones are active whether school is in session or not, even on holidays.

The city will be using these school zones as revenue generators, and the private company that runs the photo radar program in Winnipeg (ACS) is just salivating at their cut of the extra revenue. So slow down where legally required, and stay alert in ALL school zones, and keep our kids safe.

This statement applies wherever we live.