New Garmin Policy concerning NüMaps Lifetime

OH not odd at all. This doesn't pass the smell test. How about, if I buy any Garmin and the maps are over two years old, I get a full refund? That's the rule, no joy no product for me-SAME RULE FOR YOU after two years. WTF? How about, after two years, if the map updates still have a street name wrong or send me down a dead end, I get a full refund? This is ridiculous. If a lady like your mom buys a Garmin with lifetime updates, and she doesn't even have a computer, you find 2 1/2 years later she has lifetime updates but you can not update it because it's been over 2 years? Come on. What about some one goes in the military and comes back, or has a car wreck and goes into a coma for two years? Garmin is punishing them? This is not alright with me. If you are a nervous Nelly and you have nothing better to do than sit around and update the GPS you don't get a reward from me. No way. If there are updates that still fit--and that's a stretch--on your Garmin, they should be lifetime--it says lifetime not within two years on the package. Garmin strikes out again.

Welcome to our forum Lake Abilene. If you need any help with your unit(s), just ask.

Wow, you're an angry little unit, aren't you?

Most of what you postulate is absurd, and pure hyperbole.

Nice way to intro yourself here.

This 'change' is all about controlling costs - Navteq must be collecting millions of dollars from Gamrin every month for these update licenses and it was clearly getting out of control, so they decided to stop paying for licenses for people who aren't taking advantage of the sevice.

It seems to me that all they've done is to define 'useful life', which has always been a condition of the program.

1. I fail to see how anyone could interpret the policy change as referencing anything except map updates. The wording is clear.

2. If you buy 'new old stock' that happens to be more than 2 years old it doesn't matter, because Garmin bases their map warranties on the TTFF (Time To First Fix). They start the clock running (so to speak) as of the date when the unit was first switched on and saw a satellite.

3. Clearly, the reason they have implemented the policy is that they are incurring royalty payments to Navteq for millions of units that aren't taking updates - and it isn't as if the devices don't nag their owners to update the maps - so If you've been ignoring a years' worth of nag messages you aren't going to 'miss' the update feature. If you haven't been using the device, then it is truly 'out of service'.

4. You don't need to log in for Garmin to know you've updated your navigator. But THEY know what navigator they are updating, because maps require unit-specific keys be generated for each downloaded map for them to operate in our units. Clearly they track this data (or if they haven't been, they certainly will moving forward) and they could care less whether your customer record knows about an update or not.

So it is a simple matter for Garmin to maintain a database of unit serial numbers for which updates have been downloaded and if yours is more than 2 years past TTFS without having taken a map update they'll remove it from the validity list and stop paying Navteq for the right to update your unit.

All very reasonable IMO.

I only agree with this scenario. A friend of mine doesn't even know there is a map in a Nuvi GPS unit. I happen to know quite a few other GPS users who are not computer savvy. Yes... finding out 2+ years later that a unit has lifetime map update can happen to some users.

See Subject.

to know how many nuvi owners just open the box and use the unit without ever hooking it up to a computer ... no registration, no software updates, no map updates, no POI loading. I suspect the percentage is a lot higher than we think, and 2 years goes by pretty fast. So with this policy change, Garmin could be writing off a large number of potential map updates. I assume Garmin would be able to use the "first satellite acquisition" marker to tell when the unit was put in service, even if it was never registered.

But in general, I see the new policy as a plus. It will make the buying/selling of used LMT units a lot more attractive

I have never done 4/year, as I find the process so tedious for very very little gain.

I will have to get going on a yearly cycle it sounds like.

I earned my embarrassment on this one.

On occasion, I myself have eaten my share of humble pie.

All you need to do is to insert a SD card into the Garmin and then purchase a one time European map and install it on the SD card, problem solved. Unless you are over there constantly, then buy the LM and install on the SD card.

Well put bramfrank.

But, we really don't know what the agreement is with Navteq. It could be a one time fee when the Lifetime Map updates are sold. Or it could be as you suggest.

Be sure to read the fine print about what models the update covers and if your 295W is listed, then you should be OK.

I have no plans to sell my 765T but it is definitely a step in the right direction with their policy. As it was, the map update was essentially trash if you wanted to sell the device to upgrade to a newer unit. IMHO, the two possible solutions would have been; 1) allow the map updates to be transferred to another device for a small administrative fee or 2) allow the map updates to move with the device. Garmin went with #2 which seems fine. Plus with many devices now shipping with lifetime maps, it transferring to another device would have been pointless.

I realize my position is unique, however it does illustrate the 24 month clause can impact some. I helped my father-in-law in making a nuvi 780 purchase in 2009. He then purchased the lifetime maps update. Almost immediately, he became very ill and just recently passed away. He wanted me to have the 780. I knew he had the lifetime updates so when I went to update, well you already know the rest of that story. I own a 2595 but was going to give the 780 to my wife but with maps that are over 3 years old, not much point. I could purchase another lifetime update, but on a unit over 3 years old, again, not much point. I would have appreciated a longer-than-24-month policy. Too bad.

dwalker, just out of curiosity, did you know your father-in-law's my.Garmin login and try the map update that way, or did you try the anonymous map update without login?

I wonder how Garmin support would respond if you called them and told them the situation? It might be worth a try.

Well, I happen to agree with him. I purchased my 2595 -because- of the lifetime map feature. Do I expect to have this go on for twenty years? No. Ten years? YES! If I dont get around to updating and it's beyond two years, why should it matter? I'll probably give this unit a member of my family if/when I upgrade. (Like I did with my 255W) If they don't download a new map for three years, it shouldn't matter.

If it ever comes down to that, I -WILL- have a huge beef with Garmin. Time will tell.

True, if you didn't update it 2 years why would you get a unit with lifetime updates?

While I'm not in favour of the 254 month inactivity timer, I do understand why Garmin has implemented it.

But to play devil's advocate; What if your father-in-law had bought a car with a 5 year warranty that required oil changes every 6 months, but because he got sick, the car wasn't used at all for more than 2 years and the oil not changed?

Perhaps something then went wrong and the dealer was asked to provide maintenance records as a function of a warranty claim which in turn was denied, because the vehicle hadn't been serviced in two years?

It would be truly annoying, but the manufacturer would be within his rights since the obligation to maintain every 6 months was not fulfilled.

Certainly there's no increased possibility of equipment failure if you don't update your maps, but Garmin has always used inactivity time-outs, for example for the one free map update that comes with units that do not have lifetime maps - you go more than 60 days and you will not be getting the update.

You can ask, but if the new policy defining service life was already in force when you went to update the 780, then they are probably within their rights to deny the service, though you might be able to get a goodwill reactivation if you ask nicely,

I wonder, however whether you could even rebuy the lifetime maps for a unit once it has reached what Garmin defines as the end of the unit's useful life? Is the navigator now a 'zombie', having risen from the dead?

I am not sure when Garmin changed the policy, but since it was just recently noticed by forum members, I assume it was within the past couple of months. So it seems if Garmin is going to change the policy, they should at least give users 2 years from the date the policy was changed. Hopefully they didn't make the 2 year window retroactive.

I did attempt to update using his login information. I found it more than curious that the serial number was recognized and I was even allowed to update the software and firmware...but not the maps. I've considered calling Garmin and may still do so.

Since you are using the login that the unit was originally registered with, technically the ownership/registration has not changed. I would definitely call Garmin and try to make the case that under the original map update policy, the map update should be allowed. I would be disappointed in Garmin if they applied the new policy retroactively without explicitly notifing affected owners.

Edit: I just thought of something else. Is it possible your father in law purchased the lifetime map subscription but never activated it on the nuvi? If he purchased the subscription card, the activation code was on the card. You should be able to tell if the subscription was activated by logging into my.Garmin.com using your father-in-law's user ID and password. Click on "MyMaps", then "Details". Scroll down and you should see a section called "Map Updates" and it should show "nüMaps Lifetime™ North America ". If you don't see that there is a good chance that a lifetime subscription was never activated for the nuvi.

What I don't get is why they call it "Free Lifetime Updates" when that is certainly not true. The terms are reasonable, but the sale advertisement is misleading.

I purchased my new Nuvi 2450 for $149 with life time updates.

I purchased my old Nuvi 750 for $600 when it came out with no map update.

I do consider I received my updates free considering the cost of the two units.

As long as it's tied to Map downloads, I don't care... My 660 has been freed up of as much space as possible... I have 108Mb free right now....

I'll use the SD card if necessary...

However, I still have the paperwork for my lifetime maps, and it doesn't mention limits that I can see... and I hold them to the agreement of my purchase..

My Intention: I'll run the 660 into the ground! but I am not a fan of ANY COMPANY 'changing the rules' after a sale where agreements were made for that sale....

There used to be an agreed to limit of 7 years for products.... Parts and Services...

Well, it only took a couple of years before my 465t was unable to fit the map updates. The device had an SD card slot - which didn't work! Considering I paid $500 for the thing, I expected the "useful life" to be a little longer than two years.
In the end, I was unable to revert back to my old maps, and could only load the lower forty-eight - even after tossing every non-essential file I could find. This, at a time when I drove to Canada twice a week. Is it really unreasonable to expect updates to fit their intended device?

It is quite unusual (although not impossible) for the SD slot to go bad. It is not a problem we hear about very often on the forum. Did you try multiple cards? Did you contact Garmin support to see if they would do a replacement of the unit?

I'm new to the GPS world, so when I bought my 1490LMT, I literally thought "Free Lifetime Updates" means free map updates for the rest of my life (which is like 50 years).

After reading these terms, I realized Garmin meant the product's lifetime (about 10 years, and my 1490lmt is already 2 yrs into its lifetime). On top of that, you have to update the map every 2 years to keep this feature.

I do love the free updates and I will definitely utilize it.

When a GPS requires repairs, Garmin often exchanges the unit with a "new" refurbished one. Previously, they would also transfer the Lifetime Maps subscription with that replacement. I'm certain, the new terms will void that option. This saves Garmin time and expense as their service staff will not need to transfer subscriptions, and it potentially generates new sales of NuMaps.

Some of us have expensive Zumo, GPSMap and StreetPilot units that Garmin continues to service for a fee of $100 to $150. It looks like an additional cost may be the map subscription replacement.

Interesting thought. Sounds logical. I remember buying tires with an included lifetime pro-rated road hazard warranty. Then they started charging for it. Then I found out I had to buy the warranty for the replacement tire as well.

Prior to the new policy my friends 265W (older than 1 year) was ruined by a flood caused by a storm, it no longer was covered by the warranty. My friend paid 80.00 for a replacement and the Lifetime Maps subscription he bought was transferred. I suspect that would not hold true anymore.

Which brings up the question,
(b) is capable of operating as intended without major repairs.

If a unit is DEFECTIVE within the one year warranty period and not due to user abuse or accidents, will they transfer the Lifetime maps to the replaced unit.
The owner should not be punished for having received a defective unit.

I personally think they will transfer the subscription under those circumstance.

Sounds reasonable to me.

I am sort of on the fence now with what I should do. I bought a used Garmin Nuvi 350 earlier this year because it works with my Uniden Home Patrol HP-1 scanner when they are connected via an Argent Data cable. Anyway, since the Nuvi had never been updated, I was able to update it to the current mapping software earlier this year. Now, in light of this policy, I am left sort of wondering if I should buy a Lifetime map. If I did get it and the Nuvi 350 failed a year from now could I still transfer it to another unit then?

Lifetime maps are not transferrable between units. They never have been..

Okay, thank you for the reply. For some reason I thought they were transferable if the GPS failed, but I guess I must have misunderstood that then.

If you send your broken unit to Garmin for repair, they may send you a refurb unit instead of repairing your old unit. They (Garmin) will transfer your maps to the refurb unit.
That is what Garmin did for me.

good information to know

It is your call of course, but I don't think I would buy a lifetime map subscription for a unit as old as the 350. The 3xx and 6xx series had a couple of weak spots in their hardware (antenna and power switch) that often fail as the device gets older. Also, I wonder when (and if) Garmin will start "calling in the chips" with their lifetime map EULA language regarding "useful life" of these older devices.

Just my opinion, but something to think about.

I agree.

Why would you have them and not download them?

I found that both of my Nuvis now will let me use a memory card to store my maps. I was really upset that I could not get all my maps on befor the second 2013 update then Flash they both will allow me to use my additional memory and ALL of my maps are on my units.

Try again after the 2013-02 update. You will like it.

Welcome to The Factory.

Updating maps to SD cards is easier for some Garmin models than for others. Here's a list of the slam-dunk-easy series with some help on what to expect:

https://support.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/case.faces?...

I agree with ptownoddy. I try to stay on top of updates, but wonder about someone who had a tour of duty and their GPS sat in the closet or someone with an extended illness. Seems that Garmin should have a little flexibility in these areas.

Another aspect of Garmin's new lifetime map update policy was recently discussed over on the gpspassion fourm. A member of that forum confirmed with Garmin support that unregistering a nuvi with a lifetime map subscription will cancel the subscription. So if a seller unregisters the product when it is sold, the new owner will NOT be able to update maps using the anonymous map update log in. In order to keep the lifetime map subscription in effect, the seller will need to maintain his original registration of the unit.

Can I transfer my downloadable content or purchases if I sell or give my GPS away?

08/15/2012

If you decide to delete your registered automotive GPS and give it to another individual or privately sell it, please consider that most of the purchases you made for that device are not transferable.

Below is a list of downloadable content or purchases that can be used if still loaded to the device, but cannot be accessed in the myGarmin account of the new owner:

Supplemental Map Downloads
Mad Maps
Safety Camera Subscriptions
Games
FM Traffic Subscriptions

If one of the above is already loaded to a device when it is received, the product can be used but no updates can be accessed from myGarmin without purchasing a new item, subscription, or service.

Because map updates (including the nuMaps Lifetime subscription) do not require registration, they may still be accessed if the device is sold or given away.

Here is the quote from the gpspassion forum post:

I would guess most lifetime map subscriptions are tied to a registered device. Does that mean the lifetime map subscription is also registered? And if you delete the device registration does it cancel the lifetime map registration?

I guess to find out, we might have to wait until someone reports back to us who has bought a used LMT unit that was unregistered by the previous owner. Unless of course someone here wants to take a chance by unregistering their unit to see if the lifetime map update still works ... won't be me

Edit: For additional clarification, the user who reported this was referring to an older nuvi that had a Lifetime Map Update subscription added to it. So the policy may be different for units that were originally sold with the lifetime maps (LM or LMT units) and those for which a lifetime subscription was added later.

Seems like a reasonable policy to me.

Certainly this is becoming confusing since the policy stated is for both units that came with lifetime maps or a purchased subscription.

"If you purchase a nüMaps Lifetime subscription (sold separately or bundled together with certain GPS models), you will receive up to 4 map data updates per year, when and as such updates are made available on Garmin’s website".

If the same policy applies to both subscriptions then the 2 year updates and being able to transfer to a new owner should apply.

Sometimes Garmin CS gives inaccurate information so by stating if a registration is deleted so are Lifetime Map updates.

I too am not willing to test the theory of deleting my registration.

Garmin updated my map to the current version.

+1

The very first paragraph of the Garmin FAQ clearly states that:

"If you decide to delete your registered automotive GPS and give it to another individual or privately sell it, please consider that most of the purchases you made for that device are not transferable." They then list that specific content and state that it can be used but not updated.

Garmin then says that:

"Because map updates (including the numaps Lifetime subscription) do not require registration, they may still be accessed if the device is sold or given away"

My old 255W which I seperately purchased nüMaps Lifetime subscription is attached to my unit. Yes it's registered but the FAQ states that if I delete my registration and give it to someone that person will beable to continue updating the maps since it's tied to the unit.

If you bought a 2460LM the exact same would apply, if there are lifetime maps tied to a unit the maps of that gps can be updated.

Tied to a unit is what we should remember.

Cheers