New Garmin Policy concerning NüMaps Lifetime

 

From Garmin:

nüMaps Lifetime

If you purchase a nüMaps Lifetime subscription (sold separately or bundled together with certain GPS models), you will receive up to 4 map data updates per year, when and as such updates are made available on Garmin’s website, for 1 compatible Garmin product. until your product’s useful life expires or Garmin no longer receives map data from its third party supplier, whichever is shorter. A product’s “useful life” means the period during which the product (a) has sufficient memory capacity and other required technical capabilities to utilize current map data and (b) is capable of operating as intended without major repairs. A product will be deemed to be out of service and its useful life to be ended if no updates have been downloaded for such product for a period of 24 months or more. Unless otherwise stated, the updates you receive under the subscription will be updates to the same geographic map data originally included with your Garmin product when originally purchased. In some instances, your Garmin product might not have sufficient memory remaining for you to load an update to the map data, in which case you will need to either (a) select reduced map data coverage for your updates, or (b) purchase separately a microSD™ card or a SD™ card (if and as applicable to your Garmin product) and load all or a portion of the map data coverage for your updates to the card and insert the card into the microSD card or SD card slot contained in your Garmin product. If neither of the measures in (a) or (b) can be used to address your product’s lack of sufficient remaining memory, then Garmin may conclude that the “useful life” of your product has expired. Garmin may terminate your nüMaps Lifetime subscription at any time if you violate any of the terms of this agreement or your subscription. Your nüMaps Lifetime subscription may not be transferred to another Garmin product.

The lifetime subsciption can be transferred to another person since it's now attached to the device itself smile

http://forums.gpsreview.net/viewtopic.php?t=26277

--
Nüvi 255WT with nüMaps Lifetime North America born on 602117815 / Nüvi 3597LMTHD born on 805972514 / I love Friday’s except when I’m on holidays ~ canuk
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New Garmin Policy concerning NüMaps Lifetime

Actually the new policy doesn't seem all that unreasonable. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a company to support potentially ten-year-old technology indefinately.

Phil

--
"No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse."

Ok

Sounds good to me....don't see anything wrong with the new policy.....

--
Bobby....Garmin 2450LM

.

When I first started reading it, I thought, "Crap, so much for using an SD card".

Not the case however. Nothing bad here.

--
nüvi 3790T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Maybe I'm just odd, but I

Maybe I'm just odd, but I believe two years is too short. Ten years would be unrealistic, but five to me would sound just right.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Reasonable. Maybe we can

Reasonable. Maybe we can get the photo junction view files as part of the normal update process. Garmin now confirms a memory card might be necessary to upgrade old units.

.

Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

Maybe I'm just odd, but I believe two years is too short. Ten years would be unrealistic, but five to me would sound just right.

I believe what it said was, if a device with LM did not DL an update for 24 months. So, I take that to mean if you don't update your maps for that period, it's deemed EOL. Lost, stolen, broken, or just replaced.

That's how I took it.

--
nüvi 3790T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

The way I read it...

Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

Maybe I'm just odd, but I believe two years is too short. Ten years would be unrealistic, but five to me would sound just right.

The way I read it is that if for a 24 month period, you don't update the maps, Garmin will consider your GPS no longer active and thus no longer eligible for map updates.

As long as you regularly update them, then you will continue to be able to get them in the future.

--
Garmin Nuvi 2450

Policy Change

My thanks to Canuck for posting the information.

I'm sure that is good news as a selling point for those considering selling their units and upgrading.
Prior to this I saw many units selling on Ebay that advertised Lifetime Maps, that was not true since at that time the Lifetime Maps were not transferrable to a new owner.

Going off topic a bit, what still amazes me how Garmin can remain profitable. Just think, you can buy a 40LM for under $120.00 and get Lifetime Maps. They must pay Navteq royalties for this. Now consider the cost of support with telephone bills and salaries. These calls are to English speaking individuals and not to some third world country that get paid far less, not to mention you're not understanding what they say. I'm sure there are many first time GPS owners that call often with questions they have. That 120.00 is a great value for consumers in my opinion.

From a business perspective I think Garmin should make their owners manuals far more comprehensive then what they are, thus reducing support calls.
After all manuals are no longer included and must be downloaded. Improving the manuals can reduce support costs.

--
Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

Garmin lifetime

Now a days sd cards are so cheap, when you buy your gps also buy a sc say 16-32 gb you will have double or quadruple your memory. Sd can also be used to store music, text-to-speech and travel guides tied to the poi of your interests.

I agree

Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

Maybe I'm just odd, but I believe two years is too short. Ten years would be unrealistic, but five to me would sound just right.

2 years is too short.

Me too

Juggernaut wrote:
Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

Maybe I'm just odd, but I believe two years is too short. Ten years would be unrealistic, but five to me would sound just right.

I believe what it said was, if a device with LM did not DL an update for 24 months. So, I take that to mean if you don't update your maps for that period, it's deemed EOL. Lost, stolen, broken, or just replaced.

That's how I took it.

That's how I read it too.

The way I read it...

Juggernaut wrote:
Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

Maybe I'm just odd, but I believe two years is too short. Ten years would be unrealistic, but five to me would sound just right.

I believe what it said was, if a device with LM did not DL an update for 24 months. So, I take that to mean if you don't update your maps for that period, it's deemed EOL. Lost, stolen, broken, or just replaced.

That's how I took it.

...was that if a device didn't receive a firmware update within 24 months, then it would be considered out of service. Obviously a big difference from your interpretation since with mine, roughly two years after the device was discontinued Garmin can consider the unit out of service.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Not so sure...

Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:
Juggernaut wrote:
Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

Maybe I'm just odd, but I believe two years is too short. Ten years would be unrealistic, but five to me would sound just right.

I believe what it said was, if a device with LM did not DL an update for 24 months. So, I take that to mean if you don't update your maps for that period, it's deemed EOL. Lost, stolen, broken, or just replaced.

That's how I took it.

...was that if a device didn't receive a firmware update within 24 months, then it would be considered out of service. Obviously a big difference from your interpretation since with mine, roughly two years after the device was discontinued Garmin can consider the unit out of service.

I am not sure if they are talking about firmware.. I have a C580 that has lifetime map which has been discontinued a very long time and they are no longer makeing Firmware updates for this device.

I am however, still getting the maps for the device and works great so far.. Just my input!

--
Bobkz - Garmin Nuvi 3597LMTHD/2455LMT/C530/C580- "Pain Is Fear Leaving The Body - Semper Fidelis"

Maps Or Firmware?

Juggernaut wrote:

I believe what it said was, if a device with LM did not DL an update for 24 months. So, I take that to mean if you don't update your maps for that period, it's deemed EOL. Lost, stolen, broken, or just replaced.
That's how I took it.

Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

The way I read it was that if a device didn't receive a firmware update within 24 months, then it would be considered out of service. Obviously a big difference from your interpretation since with mine, roughly two years after the device was discontinued Garmin can consider the unit out of service.

I may be missing something, but I agree with Juggernaut, the way I read it was pertaining to map updates, not firmware.

Below is partial quote of original post, it speaks of map SUBSCRIPTIONS not firmware.

"A product will be deemed to be out of service and its useful life to be ended if no updates have been downloaded for such product for a period of 24 months or more. Unless otherwise stated, the updates you receive under the subscription will be updates to the same geographic map data originally included with your Garmin product when originally purchased."

--
Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

I tend also to agree with

I tend also to agree with that policy, since GPS are so cheap today compared to when I bought my original 660 for $600.00 and other units for more, which did not included lifetime maps, I have no issue with this policy

--
NickJr Nuvi 3597LMT

Definitely pays to apply

Definitely pays to apply updates!!

Of course, nothing in there states that Garmin will >>>

endeavor to make units that anticpate the size of the maps being used going forward and, thus, not cause premature obsolescence...yes, indeed, Garmin...double talk is much better than real technology.

--
"You can't get there from here"

Not much change but I think they rewrite this because Garmin

wanted to know how many are still out in the market. They might have to pay how many are doing updates so they can pay the loyalty fee to Naqtek.

Updates

Well, I'd like to know what the reason is behind the change... AND... get the reason directly from Garmin.

If it ain't broke.... why change it ?

There must be something that caused the change, and I would suspect it is a way for Garmin to declare your GPS unit past it's useful life, even if it isn't.

I may be cynical, but I don't really trust Corporations much now-a-days.

And there is that vague wording on not downloading updatres for 24 months, but they do not specify what type of update.

Maps or Firmware.

Sort of leaves the door open for them to screw the customer.

TMK

TMK

Of course, nothing in there states that Garmin will
endeavor to make units that anticpate the size of the maps being used going forward and, thus, not cause premature obsolescence...yes, indeed, Garmin...double talk is much better than real technology.
=====================================================
At least Garmin has a slot for either a SD or a Micro SD card on which to store the update maps, hence your GPS may never be obsolete!

--
Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

This is how this forum

This is how this forum thread starts and it very clearly mentions LIFETIME updates. It does not mention firmware updates anywhere.
----------------------------------------------
From Garmin:
nüMaps Lifetime
If you purchase a nüMaps Lifetime subscription (sold separately or bundled together with certain GPS models)
=================================
pratzert
Well, I'd like to know what the reason is behind the change... AND... get the reason directly from Garmin.
If it ain't broke.... why change it ?
There must be something that caused the change, and I would suspect it is a way for Garmin to declare your GPS unit past it's useful life, even if it isn't.
I may be cynical, but I don't really trust Corporations much now-a-days.
And there is that vague wording on not downloading updatres for 24 months, but they do not specify what type of update.
Maps or Firmware.
Sort of leaves the door open for them to screw the customer.

================================

--
Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

That is good news when it comes time to sell a LM unit .........

canuk wrote:

From Garmin:

nüMaps Lifetime
The lifetime subsciption can be transferred to another person since it's now attached to the device itself smile

http://forums.gpsreview.net/viewtopic.php?t=26277

That is good news when it comes time to sell a LM unit and means it will be worth more at that time. grin

--
Garmin Drive Smart 55 - Samsung Note 10 Smartphone with Google Maps & HERE Apps

You trust garmnin much more than I do! >>>

Melaqueman wrote:

At least Garmin has a slot for either a SD or a Micro SD card on which to store the update maps, hence your GPS may never be obsolete!

their next policy change will be that map updates either cannot be downloaded to cards or they will make a slight software change and the maps will not be readable from the cards...yes, I am jaded.

--
"You can't get there from here"

It is amazing the number of different interpretations.

I also believe they are talking about map updates and not firmware.

--
Nuvi 2460LMT.

My understanding

First of all I don’t work for Garmin , am not a laywer nor an English major.

The subject we are discussing is nüMAPSLifetime. BEFORE this new policy, Garmin stated that the nüMaps Lifetime could not be transfered to another person. NOW Garmin states that it’s tied to one compatible Garmin product. I see this being positive because if you decide to give or sell your unit to someone, the new owner will still beable to continue downloading new map updates.

Remember we are still discussing MAP UPDATES. Garmin is now saying that if you don’t do a MAP update within 24 months your unit will be deemed out of service. Once again this seems logical.

If an owner wants to update every time a map comes out, that’s perfectly fine. If another owner wants to update only once a year because he or she doesn t get around much or finds the update process a hassle Garmin once again says it’s ok.

If after 24 months the owner hasn’t done one single MAP update, Garmin will at that time consider the unit out of service and your lifetime map update will no longer work.

If you have an old nüvi® 350 and buy a lifetime MAP subscription Garmin doesn’t expect you to do a firmware or voice update but does expect you to do at least 1 MAP download within 24 months to keep it active.

smile

--
Nüvi 255WT with nüMaps Lifetime North America born on 602117815 / Nüvi 3597LMTHD born on 805972514 / I love Friday’s except when I’m on holidays ~ canuk

Simple Interpretation

@Canuck,
Now that's a simple and logical interpretation of the new Garmin Policy.

I suspect you threw the Nuvi 350 in there to indicate although the model is discontinued, and no future firmware will be available, as long as you update the map at least once in two years your subscription remains active. You may still sell the unit and the new owner will continue to get the free updates as long as he\she abides by the two year update rule.

--
Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

Seems Reasonable

This policy seems reasonable to me.

Maybe it's "Purge" time

The 24 month limit may also be a way that Garmin can clean-up their server(s).

All those units that have NOT been updated within the last 24 months can now be deleted off the system and make the server more efficient.

Less emails will be sent, although they certainly wait long enough to tell anyone that there was an update. Yes, once I actually got an email telling me that an update was available.

Less 25 character unlock codes will be generated and stored. Although the latest map code could be generated when you are logged in and go to the D/L page.

I think they are just "Cleaning house". Remember all that data stored on a server slows it down due to the increased "Lookup" time. It also creates huge back-up libraries, even if they are only doing "incremental" backups. The data base for the backups must be HUGE, considering all the units they have sold.

Just my 2¢

--
Metricman DriveSmart 76 Williamsburg, VA

Just a thought

My 295w is 18 months old. It does not have lifetime maps. If I want to buy maps for it in a year or so, will I be out of luck?

--
1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

You'll Be OK

spokybob wrote:

My 295w is 18 months old. It does not have lifetime maps. If I want to buy maps for it in a year or so, will I be out of luck?

The way I see it you should NOT be out of luck.
The 24 month rule applies for those who have lifetime maps. Even if you waited for the Nuvi to reach 3 years old, then bought a lifetime subscription you are safe.

The 24 month update rule will take effect after using the first free update with the subscription.
If you don't update the maps again after 24 months your subscription will become void.

One point Garmin mentions which I'm unclear about is the following:
"A product’s “useful life” means the period during which the product (a) has sufficient memory capacity and other required technical capabilities to utilize current map data and (b) ) is capable of operating as intended without major repairs.”

The without "major repairs" is what stumps me.
Does that mean if my touch screen goes out and I decide to have it repaired by Garmin they will void my lifetime subscription. If I chose to have it repaired at an independent repair shop, how would they ever know and my subscription would continue.

--
Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

*Shakes my head at myself*

Thanks guys for highlighting the fact I can't read. *laughs*

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Just another thought...

spokybob wrote:

My 295w is 18 months old. It does not have lifetime maps. If I want to buy maps for it in a year or so, will I be out of luck?

295w is already a more-than-2-year-old product. Would it be cheaper to buy a brand new GPS with updated map and better features in a year or so? Personally, I would not upgrade, update, adding accessories for any technology products I have owned for more than a year.

.

The 295 is the Garmin phone, IIRC. Not just a GPS.

--
nüvi 3790T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Reasonable

The condition sounds reasonable, but something I need to be aware of.

Thank you for posting this.

--
nüvi 750 & 760

My old 295w has Wi-Fi

I only paid $63.00 for 295w at Amazon. I don't want to spend 70 or 80 bucks for LM. I don't have a smart phone or a tablet.

--
1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

Perhaps for the future

metricman wrote:

The 24 month limit may also be a way that Garmin can clean-up their server(s).

All those units that have NOT been updated within the last 24 months can now be deleted off the system and make the server more efficient.

When nüMaps Lifetime first came out there were terms, agreements and limitations written by the seller (Garmin) for the buyer (us). If we purchased the product it mean't we agreed to the above terms which I now consider being a contract.

If I decide to update my unit once every three years I believe Garmin will respect their "contract" that we made at that time. If they want to change those initial terms and agreements, Garmin must first personally contact me and then take the necessary steps in proceeding with the changes which won't happen.

If for example this new policy they just made came into force on August 1st 2012, everyone who buys or activates their new lifetime card or unit from this point on will have to follow the new rules and regulations.

That being said, many must now be asking themselves if Garmin will let the thousands of customers who have nüMaps Lifetime cards/units previous to this new policy the right to benefit from these new terms and agreements.

Technically speaking they don't have to but I think they will, we shall see. smile

--
Nüvi 255WT with nüMaps Lifetime North America born on 602117815 / Nüvi 3597LMTHD born on 805972514 / I love Friday’s except when I’m on holidays ~ canuk

Update

canuk
If I decide to update my unit once every three years I believe Garmin will respect their "contract" that we made at that time. If they want to change those initial terms and agreements, Garmin must first personally contact me and then take the necessary steps in proceeding with the changes which won't happen.
==============================================

Just for arguments sake, of you have Lifetime maps, why would you not utilize this to have the newest maps available for your Garmin? As to be contacted personally, dream on.

--
Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

@ Melaqueman

If you read properly the last three words you quoted me are " which won't happen" therefore I don't understand why you would write "dream on" rolleyes

I have lifetime updates and use the program everytime their's a new map update. If someone else did just one map update when they purchased their unit and then 5 years later decide to do another map update, what I'm saying is that Garmin would allow them since at the time he purchased his lifetime map/unit there wasn't any mention of the 24 momth limitation period.

--
Nüvi 255WT with nüMaps Lifetime North America born on 602117815 / Nüvi 3597LMTHD born on 805972514 / I love Friday’s except when I’m on holidays ~ canuk

Some Extra Fine Print Involved

In the original terms and conditions you agreed to in purchasing your 'Lifetime' Maps, there likely was some standard, boilerplate legalese that allows them (Garmin) to alter the terms at their discretion and your continued use of the product(s) is consent to abide by the modified terms.

Bottom line: It is not at all unreasonable of Garmin to no longer provide a map update under a 'Lifetime' agreement if the device has not been updated at least once in the prior 24 months.

--
*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone6 + Navigon*

Garmin Nuvi 350 NüMaps Lifetime

This is interesting. I bought a used Garmin Nuvi 350 earlier this year to use with my Uniden Home Patrol HP-1 since it will send NMEA-0183 data to the Uniden. I got a free update to 2013.1 or 2 when I bought it, since it had apparently never been connected to a computer by the end user. Anyway, I have been pondering buying a Lifetime Map, but in light of this I am now reluctant.

I'm Wondering If...

I thought about the situation in a different manner.

By Garmin posing this new 2 year downloading situation, could they be possibly enticing prospective map buyers to forgo purchasing the map, but instead buy new GPS's at just a few $ dollars $ more?

Think about it. Why would one want to purchase a map download for a older unit, when the purchase of a much newer and advanced model could be had and would be more advantageous for a couple dollars more?

Nuvi1300WTGPS

--
I'm not really lost.... just temporarily misplaced!

New policy applies to old Lifetime subscriptions.

canuk wrote:

That being said, many must now be asking themselves if Garmin will let the thousands of customers who have nüMaps Lifetime cards/units previous to this new policy the right to benefit from these new terms and agreements.

Technically speaking they don't have to but I think they will, we shall see. smile

Based on my testing with my 4 year old 755T that I purchased a Lifetime map card for in 2009, I think Garmin is applying the new policy to old subscriptions.

The test I did is to update the maps without ever logging on to my.Garmin.com. I started with URL http://www.garmin.com/mapupdates, then clicked on Automotive and plugged in my 755T. It recognized it, so I clicked on Find Map Updates. It said my maps were already up to date, so I clicked on the "Device Content" tab. It took me to the download page and proceeded with the download and install ... all without me ever entering my my.Garmin.com user ID or password. Interestingly, the URL on the download page is https://my.garmin.com/mygarmin/guestDownloads/readyToDownloa.... The "guestDownloads" indicates to me that it did not validate the nuvi against my my.Garmin.com account.

There is a myDashboard link on the download page. If you click that it takes you to the my.Garmin.com myDashboard page, and you can update maps and software from there, even though at the top of the page, it says you are not logged in.

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

This is the only viable reason, IMHO

metricman wrote:

The 24 month limit may also be a way that Garmin can clean-up their server(s).

All those units that have NOT been updated within the last 24 months can now be deleted off the system and make the server more efficient.

Two years seems a bit short to me as well... This sounds more like an excuse to "snare" the customer and get out of providing an update. If I haven't updated for a while, so what? Be happy that I'm not bogging down your servers every 3 months to download an update instead of using it as an excuse to get out of providing the product or service you promised when I purchased the unit.

Not sure how they implement this on the back-end and what sort of data they're storing but it seems that there should be a way to "get back in the system" so to speak if you fall out of it because they want to purge unused data. Since they're not providing that, it sounds more like a way to squeeze the customer, IMHO.

Besides, if you have a device that comes with lifetime maps then all they really have to do is check the device's model number and provide the map, or not. No extra data needs to be stored on their servers other than the model numbers of units that come with lifetime maps.

- Phil

Thanks for the info.

It's good to know.

good info

This is all good info. Thanks

YAHOO and others

canuk wrote:

If you read properly the last three words you quoted me are " which won't happen" therefore I don't understand why you would write "dream on" rolleyes

I have lifetime updates and use the program everytime their's a new map update. If someone else did just one map update when they purchased their unit and then 5 years later decide to do another map update, what I'm saying is that Garmin would allow them since at the time he purchased his lifetime map/unit there wasn't any mention of the 24 momth limitation period.

Look at all the hassles (read "Legal Problems") that some of the major online sites have gone through when they changed their "Privacy Policy". I would think that Garmin would like to avoid that kind of publicity.

I would imagine that Garmin has their legal department working on a carefully worded email that will be sent out to every owner of LM - that is, if they registered their new unit (see Jim1348's comments above). Wonder how many will get bounced back as an invalid email address?

--
Metricman DriveSmart 76 Williamsburg, VA

2 Years

I agree that they mean 24 months without downloading an update. After all, what's the purpose of having lifetime updates if you're only going not going to download them?

You are making a BAD assumtion with Garmin>>>

Nuvi1300WTGPS wrote:

I thought about the situation in a different manner.

By Garmin posing this new 2 year downloading situation, could they be possibly enticing prospective map buyers to forgo purchasing the map, but instead buy new GPS's at just a few $ dollars $ more?

Think about it. Why would one want to purchase a map download for a older unit, when the purchase of a much newer and advanced model could be had and would be more advantageous for a couple dollars more?

Nuvi1300WTGPS

that assumption being newer is better. It isn't...the unit that killed Garmin for me, the 1490, was a "better" unit than my C530...the C530 still works fine...the 1490 is more trouble than it has ever been worth and chased me to TT.

--
"You can't get there from here"

Garmin vs TT

TMK wrote:

that assumption being newer is better. It isn't...the unit that killed Garmin for me, the 1490, was a "better" unit than my C530...the C530 still works fine...the 1490 is more trouble than it has ever been worth and chased me to TT.

I am very pleased with my replacement 1490. Garmin solved my problems...I used a TomTom for a few days last year, but would never consider buying one of those.
Kinda like Ford vs Chevy

--
1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

2 GPSes then

Guess this means I will need to buy 2 GPS units. One for the US, and one for my trips to Europe.

--
Unless you are the lead sled dog, the view never changes. I is retard... every day is Saturday! I still use the Garmin 3590 LMT even tho I upgraded to the Garmin 61 LMT. Bigger screen is not always better in my opinion.
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