New Avoidance- Avoid Ghetto

 
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Wow!

I can hear the screams of racism now! That won't last long.

New Avoidance- Avoid Ghetto

jjen wrote:

I can hear the screams of racism now! That won't last long.

The irrefutable reality of the situation is that there are dangerous sections of every city in America: Places where one would not want to be during certain hours. This risk existed when I was a kid, more than seven decades ago, so don't toot the "racism" horn unless, of course, you equate dangerous neighborhoods with folks of a certain race. I personally would be stupid to attempt that because there is no correlation.

No, this is a great feature -- especially for people who travel a lot and like to take walks in the evening. Now I wish the capability can be established in our Garmin GPS units -- perhaps a POI file for the most dangerous localities in America?

Avoid Areas Alredy Exists

MarkZiemba wrote:

No, this is a great feature -- especially for people who travel a lot and like to take walks in the evening. Now I wish the capability can be established in our Garmin GPS units -- perhaps a POI file for the most dangerous localities in America?

Actually it is already present to some degree with some more current Nuvi's that hav CUSTOM AVOIDANCES.
It is NOT based on crime statistics but merely a certain area, road, or road portion you want to avoid.

Under Custom Avoidances you can choose Road or Area, A specific are is achieved by zooming in map to appropriate level to encompass the area, then hit two corner points of the map, then hit done.You can now give it a name.

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Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

no correlation?

MarkZiemba wrote:

.... I personally would be stupid to attempt that because there is no correlation.

No correlation? I don't believe that for a second. I think, for the moment, that the United State's population is still predominately white. I don't believe that you can show that a list of "dangerous sections of every city in America" would be predominately white areas, and if you can't then there certainly is a correlation.

However, I don't think that such a mapping of cities is raciest, I think it is realistic. Too many people like to call things racist when they report realities that are not favorable to some groups.

New Avoidance - Avoid Ghetto

Frovingslosh wrote:

No correlation? I don't believe that for a second. I think, for the moment, that the United State's population is still predominately white. I don't believe that you can show that a list of "dangerous sections of every city in America" would be predominately white areas, and if you can't then there certainly is a correlation.

I suppose one could safely say that a dangerous area would contain a majority of a certain ethic group - that's certainly logical. But what sort of ethnic group that might be in this dangerous area is a function of where the dangerous area is located. For example, there are dangerous sections of San Antonio, Atlanta, and Panama City Florida yet the preponderance of a certain ethnic group is radically different in each.

But, like Mark Twain once said, "After all is said and done, more is said than done." I didn't mean to start a social demographics discussion, only admonish those who play the race card at the least provocation. It isn't race that's the root of our problems, it's character. But this forum is dedicated to GPS matters, which are infinitely more solvable problems.

Avoid Ghetto

MarkZiemba wrote:
jjen wrote:

I can hear the screams of racism now! That won't last long.

The irrefutable reality of the situation is that there are dangerous sections of every city in America: Places where one would not want to be during certain hours. This risk existed when I was a kid, more than seven decades ago, so don't toot the "racism" horn unless, of course, you equate dangerous neighborhoods with folks of a certain race. I personally would be stupid to attempt that because there is no correlation.

No, this is a great feature -- especially for people who travel a lot and like to take walks in the evening. Now I wish the capability can be established in our Garmin GPS units -- perhaps a POI file for the most dangerous localities in America?

I stand by what I said. I am 75 years old and know how it will be viewed by some. I like the concept. Many times I have ended up in places I wish that I had never entered. Some times this has occurred where it had been safe just a few years before my experience.

.

I'd suggest this could have been better handled by naming the avoidance "Dangerous Areas". That would include high crime, drug, and other related things.

All things said and done, there's just as much 'white trash' as Hispanic, black etc. all over the world. It comes down to socio-economic reasons, not colour.

Mind you, looking at Wall Street, that doesn't ring true either! wink

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Perceptions

We travel to Memphis frequently and stay in the same motel. After several visits, I checked out the reviews on TripAdvisor. I was surprised when many posters mentioned that they thought the neighborhood was dangerous. A community college is nearby and perhaps they mistook the students for thugs, based upon their choice of attire.

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1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

Run

It's been a while now, but in the past I stayed in 2 different hotels, in 2 different cities, where we asked the doorman at one and the front desk at the other what there was to do in the evenings. Both replied,"Go out the front door and see how far you can go before you have to run back."

I want that avoidance please!

--
Harley BOOM GTS, Zumo 665, (2) Nuvi 765Ts, 1450LMT, 1350LM & others | 2019 Harley Ultra Limited Shrine - Peace Officer Dark Blue

Amen

Juggernaut wrote:

Mind you, looking at Wall Street, that doesn't ring true either! wink

There are probably more crooks on Wall Street then there are in the ghettos.
Learned the hard way, for sure that's one area I will AVOID

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Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

.

I'd say that's a sure bet!

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Ghetto/get out

Perhaps the name of "High Crime Area" would make certain people happy? Probably not. Remember that these areas do exist and one must be careful because you can get hurt/killed. Call it racism or whatever, but it is a fact.

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Garmin Nuvi 765T, Garmin Drive 60LM

I have a better device for dealing with unintentional forays>>

sushidan141 wrote:

This may be a handy feature for tourists. The entire east side of Cleveland may be off limits though.

http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2012/01/06/microsoft-patents-avo...

into "bad" areas...a .45 sidearm...it sees no race creed or color...just criminals intent on doing me or my family harm.

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"You can't get there from here"

Problem is you can't carry

Problem is you can't carry that 45 into New York State and even if you had a New York State CC permit it wouldn't be recognized in New York City. Mayor Bloomberg is probably the most anti gun official in the country.

Agree with the approach...

@TMK:While I agree with your approach to dealing with the causes of bad neighborhoods, I still have to say that the feature in a GPS would be a great idea.

I have places I avoid regularly for different reasons, mostly traffic and weather. I'd like to be able to "box" these roads and permanently make them into a POI file to avoid, and have the gps route around them.

But someone made a thread like this one a while back and Ms. POI banned the idea, don't remember for what reason, but I think it was because of liability to the site.

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Garmin nuvi 1300LM with 4GB SD card Garmin nuvi 200W with 4GB SD card Garmin nuvi 260W with 4GB SD card r.i.p.

NYC is a "police state" city

NYC is a "police state" city.
I'm glad I don't go there anymore razz

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Garmin nuvi 1300LM with 4GB SD card Garmin nuvi 200W with 4GB SD card Garmin nuvi 260W with 4GB SD card r.i.p.

Bloomberg is a putz

Thanos_of_MW wrote:

NYC is a "police state" city.
I'm glad I don't go there anymore razz

The tittle of my post says it all. The only saving grace is that he is the least dangerous of the lot that want the job.

Just remember, it is better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

--
"Ceterum autem censeo, Carthaginem esse delendam" “When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”

...

Juggernaut wrote:

I'd suggest this could have been better handled by naming the avoidance "Dangerous Areas".

That would at least be politically correct; otherwise, it wouldn't "survive" for long.

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Michael (Nuvi 2639LMT)

Pretty cool feature

Pretty cool feature, but I agree with others that it should have different name to avoid complications.

Great Idea!

Great Idea!

Bla, bla, bla

Several old conversations discussed, twisted and argued over the years.

Your on the I-110 in L.A. (Harbor Freeway)heading south going to the Queen Mary, your car breaks down right by the LA Colosseum, you get out of your car looking for help and start walking. Where are you?

Your in the Simi Valley area within the South Central neighborhood (Ghetto). what good did the Ghetto Avoidance do for you? Nada! And that was just a driveby no pun intended.

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

no vaseline needed

jonny5 wrote:

Pretty cool feature, but I agree with others that it should have different name to avoid complications.

Merriam Webster:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ghetto

--
Garmin 38 - Magellan Gold - Garmin Yellow eTrex - Nuvi 260 - Nuvi 2460LMT - Google Nexus 7 - Toyota Entune NAV

Each city has one...

jjen wrote:

I can hear the screams of racism now! That won't last long.

Not necessarily racist, it just has to be factual.

Each city has a less than savory area that would be best to avoid.

We were in Los Angeles and got off the freeway in a very dangerous area, luckily we found our way out without an incident.

--
Originator of Keeping Your Windmill Alive. Live in MA & have a cooking website. 6 yr. member. http://kitchentoysmakecookingfun.blogspot.com/

.

They may have been granted a patent, but it isn't defensible.

Avoidances are commonplace. All they've done is to define a 'type', which fails the critical test; It is obvious to anyone skilled in the art.

Strangely, the patent goes out of it's way to mention pedestrian modes specifically, so you may be SOL if you want to use it to avoid driving into the 'bad part of town'.

As to what the word means, Ghettos need not be dangerous, unless of course you are a Jew, living in the isolated Jewish Ghettos in Germany and Austria in 1938.

Remember Kristallnacht

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

--
Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T

New avoidance

In reading the news article, the writer is using the term "Ghetto", not Microsoft. From a business standpoint I am almost certain they would never use the ghetto term or anything close to it for the reason's some have given.

Most cities keep crime stats by streets and area's so that would be easy for someone to get and setup with colors or sounds to let you know when they get to/near that area. POI's could be setup simulat to the redlight camera and others are already done.

Most of us know our local crime area's but for travel it would be nice.

Avoid Ghetto - Coincidence?

\\Every bad area I have seen in Mexico is predominately Latino.\\

Memphis

spokybob wrote:

We travel to Memphis frequently and stay in the same motel. After several visits, I checked out the reviews on TripAdvisor. I was surprised when many posters mentioned that they thought the neighborhood was dangerous. A community college is nearby and perhaps they mistook the students for thugs, based upon their choice of attire.

For about twenty years we were into the Blues scene pretty heavy, fund raisers, photography, etc. We traveled to Memphis fairly often, stayed in a motel up on Union Ave and would walk from Beale St., sometimes one or two in the morning. We had people say "Oh my God you're going to get mugged", but in all those years we never had a problem.

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Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.

LOL

asjogren wrote:

\\Every bad area I have seen in Mexico is predominately Latino.\\

smile

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1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

Even small towns....

Mine has a one block long cul-de-sac street that a local gang names itself after. Drive in there and you would be lucky to drive out unscathed.

--
Nuvi 760 (died 6/2013); Forerunner 305 bike/run; Inreach SE; MotionX Drive (iPhone)

Yup, lets be PC

Wouldn't want to offend the people that are gonna slit our throats and take our wallets. I think if you object to a hood being called a death trap, you should back it up by walking through it at night wearing nice things like maybe a Rollex.

When I was a kid at Fort Bragg, we had a initiation for new guys. They would take you to Fayettevile, a place called "Combat Alley". They would drop you off and wait for you at the other end, it was a fun trip. Was this racist, if you hadn't been there, done that, nowadays many would say yes. To me its a fact of life, a Hood gets run down, scum moves in and controls it. But no one will tell the Emporor he has no clothes on

Ghetto Avoidance

It would not stand a chance in this modern day of doing business. No GPS manufacturer will risk doing this. this can be very controversial. This could be seen as community discrimination. Its divisive rather than inclusive. How do the programmers decide which section of any community to exclude?

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Garmin Nuvi 260W Garmin Nuvi 1490T If you think knowledge is expensive, try ignorance.

YOU Can Do Anything YOU Want

If you want to create your own POI of avoidance areas based on crime statistics, go right ahead. Just don't expect someone else to create one for you - because the person or company might use different criteria than what you want or expect.

What would you do if Garmin decided to focus on car break-ins and minor smash and grabs, and your neighbourhood was identified as an avoidance area. Because, you know, all the "crooks" head down to your area of town because the pickings are easy? And what about all the white collar crime from those crooked millionaires? Would Stamford CT suddenly become an avoidance area?

If you want to avoid an area because of some "valid" reason, go right ahead. The people in that community would probably be better off for it.

i guess garmin didn't heed your warning

jamstyle wrote:

It would not stand a chance in this modern day of doing business. No GPS manufacturer will risk doing this. this can be very controversial. This could be seen as community discrimination. Its divisive rather than inclusive. How do the programmers decide which section of any community to exclude?

The newer Garmin including my 2460 has a feature for the user to block areas they want to avoid and the GPS will not route you inside the designated areas or if you know a particular dangerous street to travel you can indicate to avoid that street from point A to point B.

In this case they left it up to the user to decide which area is a "ghetto"

--
Garmin 38 - Magellan Gold - Garmin Yellow eTrex - Nuvi 260 - Nuvi 2460LMT - Google Nexus 7 - Toyota Entune NAV

Some people need to learn what a ghetto is before posting

It is clear that a number of those people who enjoy this site need to learn what the word "ghetto" means. If they learn that they will realize that it is probably not the most appropriate term/name for this feature. For those who link crime to racial minorities, does that mean that their are not jails or prisons in those states that have few minorities. Do those places not have police or crime? Please let us know.

Quick, let me bury my head in the sand

I dont know what your version of a ghetto is, dont care, I call them "Hoods". But common sense tells me there are parts of many towns that a outsider might not know about, that might be best avoided.

often wondered

I have often wondered what the tourists would think if they knew what kind of area they were driving through when they enter our town coming from Milwaukee. I-43 ends and changes to city hwy 81 which takes them into Beloit. This area is known as the hood to everyone that lives here, and there is so much gunfire going on in that area at certain times that the police had a substation there at one time, and as far as I know they are still using electronic triangulating equipment to pinpoint where the gunshots are coming from.

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Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.

Tourism takes a hit too

sushidan141 wrote:

This may be a handy feature for tourists. The entire east side of Cleveland may be off limits though.

http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2012/01/06/microsoft-patents-avo...

The other half of this article is that the patent allows devices to avoid "being in an open area that is subject to harsh temperatures." There goes AZ tourism - of course, it's not as popular in the summer as the winter. grin

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Nuvi 2597 / Nuvi 2595 / Nuvi 680 / Nuvi 650 "Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment."

Android

Funny, the Android has had an app like this for a few years, and there has been no controversy. It uses crime data and the internal GPS to warn you when you are entering a high-crime area.

Handy Tool

Would come in handy to know the crime statistics of an area.

That's why God made revolvers ;)

billkunert wrote:

Problem is you can't carry that 45 into New York State and even if you had a New York State CC permit it wouldn't be recognized in New York City. Mayor Bloomberg is probably the most anti gun official in the country.

not that I advocate pissing in Bloomberg's soup smile

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"You can't get there from here"

Clearly, ....

This is controversial content, but helpful nonetheless.

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RKF (Bethesda, MD) Garmin Nuvi 660, 360 & Street Pilot

Personally, if my neighborhood started to get like that >>>

DanielT wrote:

If you want to create your own POI of avoidance areas based on crime statistics, go right ahead. Just don't expect someone else to create one for you - because the person or company might use different criteria than what you want or expect.

What would you do if Garmin decided to focus on car break-ins and minor smash and grabs, and your neighbourhood was identified as an avoidance area. Because, you know, all the "crooks" head down to your area of town because the pickings are easy? And what about all the white collar crime from those crooked millionaires? Would Stamford CT suddenly become an avoidance area?

If you want to avoid an area because of some "valid" reason, go right ahead. The people in that community would probably be better off for it.

I'd form and participate in a citizens watch group and make sure the scum got a plain lesson in community togetherness...when people cede their neighborhoods to thugs of any race, color or creed it's their own fault. I have plenty of friends that are cops in Philly that try to investigate crime and are told "I didn't see anything, I didn't hear anything"...well, all righty then, don't complain about crime...many is the "ghetto" neighborhood that got cleaned up when citizens finally had had enough.

--
"You can't get there from here"

Couldn't have put it better

rkf wrote:

This is controversial content, but helpful nonetheless.

I got stuck...

Juggernaut wrote:

I'd suggest this could have been better handled by naming the avoidance "Dangerous Areas". That would include high crime, drug, and other related things.

All things said and done, there's just as much 'white trash' as Hispanic, black etc. all over the world. It comes down to socio-economic reasons, not colour.

Mind you, looking at Wall Street, that doesn't ring true either! wink

in a section of Baltimore MDvthe last time I was there! I had to run 3 red lights because every time I stopped at a red light, I was a sitting target with my brand new rented SUV Very scary to say the least! I'll never do that again...

--
"Backward, turn backward, oh time in your flight, make me a child again, just for tonight."

I got stuck...

jmkthird wrote:
Juggernaut wrote:

I'd suggest this could have been better handled by naming the avoidance "Dangerous Areas". That would include high crime, drug, and other related things.

All things said and done, there's just as much 'white trash' as Hispanic, black etc. all over the world. It comes down to socio-economic reasons, not colour.

Mind you, looking at Wall Street, that doesn't ring true either! wink

in a section of Baltimore MDvthe last time I was there! I had to run 3 red lights because every time I stopped at a red light, I was a sitting target with my brand new rented SUV Very scary to say the least! I'll never do that again...

Just lock the doors and wait what would you have told the cop if you had a wreck or stoped for running a redlight. (Sorry officer I am afaid of the neighborhood) don't think that would go over very good.

--
johnm405 660 & MSS&T

Camden NJ

jmkthird wrote:

in a section of Baltimore MDvthe last time I was there! I had to run 3 red lights because every time I stopped at a red light, I was a sitting target with my brand new rented SUV Very scary to say the least! I'll never do that again...

I got lost (pre-GPS) in Camden NJ a few years ago around 1AM. Not exactly the place to be at any time of the day! I asked a cop how to get out, he told me how to get out, and as quickly as possible. Speed limit through the town was 25, but I was doing a good 60+ and almost ran a few reds along the way. There was no way I was stopping for anything!

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Streetpilot C340 Nuvi 2595 LMT

Cops always appreciate being told the truth >>

johnm405 wrote:
jmkthird wrote:
Juggernaut wrote:

I'd suggest this could have been better handled by naming the avoidance "Dangerous Areas". That would include high crime, drug, and other related things.

All things said and done, there's just as much 'white trash' as Hispanic, black etc. all over the world. It comes down to socio-economic reasons, not colour.

Mind you, looking at Wall Street, that doesn't ring true either! wink

in a section of Baltimore MDvthe last time I was there! I had to run 3 red lights because every time I stopped at a red light, I was a sitting target with my brand new rented SUV Very scary to say the least! I'll never do that again...

Just lock the doors and wait what would you have told the cop if you had a wreck or stoped for running a redlight. (Sorry officer I am afaid of the neighborhood) don't think that would go over very good.

they know the score, they work there.

--
"You can't get there from here"

sensitive issue, but needs

sensitive issue, but needs to be discussed

Good luck on getting a consensus

jmkthird wrote:

in a section of Baltimore MD the last time I was there! I had to run 3 red lights because every time I stopped at a red light, I was a sitting target with my brand new rented SUV Very scary to say the least! I'll never do that again...

I hope you had your Red Light Camera POI loaded so you knew how many tickets to expect to get bills for from the car rental company! Baltimore loves them some RLCs. And yes, there are definitely large sections of Baltimore that are best avoided.

I don't know how much agreement you'd get on a lot of neighborhoods in a lot of cities, though. Sure, in some neighborhoods, most people would say, not good, but in others, you'd have an argument. People have varying levels of tolerance on this. Some want to make a u-turn with the first metal grate they see pulled across a storefront. Others are oblivious to gunfire going off around them.

All of this plays into our desire to take things that have gradations of challenge on multiple dimensions and make it one or the other--life isn't that simple.

I remember Miss POI posting, Not on my watch will we have a POI file like THAT.

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JMoo On

This is too funny

[/quote]
in a section of Baltimore MDvthe last time I was there! I had to run 3 red lights because every time I stopped at a red light, I was a sitting target with my brand new rented SUV Very scary to say the least! I'll never do that again...[/quote]

life or red light tickets? What a dilemma...

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