3 fatality head-on caught on mobile speed camera - Tucson

 
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Nuvi 2595LMT, Nuvi 1490T, Nuvi 260, GPSMAP 195

Pretty dramatic. There was

Pretty dramatic. There was no way the bus could have avoided the crash. The bus driver saw the guy coming and had already tried to pull toward the shoulder when the sedan shows up in the video.

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ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

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At the start, I believe that the bus driver did not leave enough room between his vehicle and the car he was following . . . and after reviewing the images several times, I think it is possible that had he done nothing, he might have avoided the accident.

It is clear that he stomped the brakes and swerved to the right to avoid the car . . . . but given what we could see, he'd probably have been better off not braking at all and, if anything he should have moved to the left.

Very sad for the passengers in the car - the driver's death probably serves to improve the world's gene pool.

Having said that, it is easy to sit in judgement when we have the luxury of reviewing the event from the comfort of our homes.

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Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T

Wow

That was ugly, and your right the bus driver was trying to avoid this by pulling over.

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

Bus Driver did no wrong

bramfrank wrote:

At the start, I believe that the bus driver did not leave enough room between his vehicle and the car he was following . . . and after reviewing the images several times, I think it is possible that had he done nothing, he might have avoided the accident.

It is clear that he stomped the brakes and swerved to the right to avoid the car . . . . but given what we could see, he'd probably have been better off not braking at all and, if anything he should have moved to the left.

Very sad for the passengers in the car - the driver's death probably serves to improve the world's gene pool.

Having said that, it is easy to sit in judgement when we have the luxury of reviewing the event from the comfort of our homes.

It is very easy to say the bus driver should have done that or this, as you mention, but that happen so fast that he just reacted by going to the side of the road and not into a on coming land. Feel for the poor guy.

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Nuvi 50LM Nuvi 2555LM

bus

The bus driver did everythign he could to avoid the accident and most of use would have done the same thing. In fact, I have hit the shoulder to avoid someone who drifted into my lane. It almost looks like the driver of the car intended to hit the bus. The investigation will show if he had been drunk or may have fallen asleep/passed out when the accident happened. Can you imagine what the driver of the car in front of the bus felt like? He missed death by seconds.

Speed

It is really hard to gauge the speed of either vehicle. I would suggest that what the bus driver is what any of us would have done. It seemed that the car was drifting but accelerated toward the left as the distance closed.

I can recall an incident that I had on an interstate. Driving the speed limit at about 70, a dog started from my left (on the median). It was right at an interchange and I started to move right and into the ramp area. The dog just kept coming and I hit it and killed it. It was a sickening experience and it was only a dog. In reconstructing it as I got back on the road, I realized that if I had done the counter intuitive thing and driven straight for the dog the moment I saw it, I would have missed it. The reflex action, which is really all you have in an event that takes less than 2 seconds, is to drive away from the accident.

As one poster said above, if the bus would have gone left rather than right he most likely would have missed the car. That might or might not be true but I don't think one driver in ten would have been able to size up that situation accurately enough to make the right call. I am just glad that none of the kids were hurt.

From what I saw in the article and the update that is now posted, there is still no word on the alcohol content of the car driver. With his driving record you have to feel that it was bad driving but there are other things that could have happened such as a stroke or heart attack.

Correct

jwboyes wrote:

... I realized that if I had done the counter intuitive thing and driven straight for the dog the moment I saw it, I would have missed it.

jwboyes, you've actually hit on the correct action I tell my flight students to take when they spot another aircraft on a collision course. If you turn directly at the other aircraft when you first see it, you will no longer be on a collision course.

The natural instinct is to turn away and that does little to nothing to resolve the conflict.

Most people will turn to the right to avoid an impact in their car, but left might be better. The only problem is that this could put you into the path of another oncoming vehicle. Certainly a hard choice I hope never to have to make.

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Nuvi 2595LMT, Nuvi 1490T, Nuvi 260, GPSMAP 195

well

rocknicehunter wrote:
jwboyes wrote:

... I realized that if I had done the counter intuitive thing and driven straight for the dog the moment I saw it, I would have missed it.

jwboyes, you've actually hit on the correct action I tell my flight students to take when they spot another aircraft on a collision course. If you turn directly at the other aircraft when you first see it, you will no longer be on a collision course.

The natural instinct is to turn away and that does little to nothing to resolve the conflict.

Most people will turn to the right to avoid an impact in their car, but left might be better. The only problem is that this could put you into the path of another oncoming vehicle. Certainly a hard choice I hope never to have to make.

That advice works great for aircraft but not so much for animals. Aircraft tend to have to always be in motion or they fall, plus they also generally don't change direction very quickly unlike squirrls, cats etc...

The bigger sin tends to be target fixation.

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Nuvi 3790LMT, Nuvi 760 Lifetime map, Lifetime NavTraffic, Garmin E-Trex Legend Just because "Everyone" drives badly does not mean you have to.

Humans

If someone is in your lane, and they are "normal," their first instinct is to pull back to the right and get in the proper lane. Ask any trooper. So the proper percentage response is to go to the left.

Animals are a different story. They don't know they aren't supposed to be on the highway. They will either continue running, stop and stare, or retreat. Unfortunately you can't really predict this as you are driving.

I too hit a dog, it was at night and he was following a tractor I met on a two lane road. I only had a second to do something. I also had a deer broadside me. In Wichita there have been two fatalities in the past few weeks of people trying to avoid animals. You will be safer slowing down and staying straight than trying to swerve, even if it means an accident.

Daniel

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Garmin StreetPilot c580 & Nuvi 760 - Member 32160 - Traveling in Kansas

The court failled us

This guy has had a suspended license among other things since 2000. Judges usually review violation history before setting fines and/or sentences. Kane must have known someone or was friends with someone important enough to keep him out of jail. This court system should be held accountable for these deaths.

Note: see driving history spreadsheet linked to the article.

Yep

onestep wrote:

That advice works great for aircraft but not so much for animals. Aircraft tend to have to always be in motion or they fall, plus they also generally don't change direction very quickly unlike squirrls, cats etc...

The bigger sin tends to be target fixation.

Correct on all counts.

I often have to avoid animals on my way up the mountain to work, or coming back down in the morning.

There is no way to tell what they will do. Some run back across the road after safely reaching the other side, while others tend to run up the road away from me. My concern here is another vehicle will come around the bend ahead and hit the already spooked animal.

I've even had one fox, apparently rabid, put its head down and charge directly toward me as if to attack.

I'll slow and swerve to avoid the animal, as most people will, but if it means losing control and having an accident or worse, going over a cliff, that animal better be quicker than my car...

As for vehicles in your lane, they tend to keep moving too, often on the wrong side of the road, until they make an instant stop. If I have no passenger in my car, I'd much rather have a glancing impact on the right side of my car, away from me, than one against my door, or a direct head on. Depending on the situation, a turn to the left may still make sense.

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Nuvi 2595LMT, Nuvi 1490T, Nuvi 260, GPSMAP 195

A-hole

bramfrank wrote:

At the start, I believe that the bus driver did not leave enough room between his vehicle and the car he was following . . . and after reviewing the images several times, I think it is possible that had he done nothing, he might have avoided the accident.

It is clear that he stomped the brakes and swerved to the right to avoid the car . . . . but given what we could see, he'd probably have been better off not braking at all and, if anything he should have moved to the left.

Very sad for the passengers in the car - the driver's death probably serves to improve the world's gene pool.

Having said that, it is easy to sit in judgement when we have the luxury of reviewing the event from the comfort of our homes.

I can't believe how big an a-hole you are!!!

Open your eyes and watch the video again. The bus driver was NOT wrong in any of the actions he took! It is clear to me that the driver of the car WANTED to die and take his passengers with him. You've heard of suicide by train? What you just seen was suicide by bus.

Jack j

What did they say about assume?

rocknicehunter wrote:
jwboyes wrote:

... I realized that if I had done the counter intuitive thing and driven straight for the dog the moment I saw it, I would have missed it.

jwboyes, you've actually hit on the correct action I tell my flight students to take when they spot another aircraft on a collision course. If you turn directly at the other aircraft when you first see it, you will no longer be on a collision course.

The natural instinct is to turn away and that does little to nothing to resolve the conflict.

Most people will turn to the right to avoid an impact in their car, but left might be better. The only problem is that this could put you into the path of another oncoming vehicle. Certainly a hard choice I hope never to have to make.

Quite right, assume the driver of the other car will do nothing to save himself. Aim for where he should have been and you'll be safe. What a load of crap!!

What will happen 99% of the time is that the other car's driver will correct and then YOU will be the one in the wrong lane. The resultant wreck will be your fault!

Jack j

Leaving enough room

Leaving enough room is allways a good idea to avoid hitting the guy in front of you, in this case it has nothing to do with it, if the vechicle in front of the bus was not there nothing would of changed, you only have a split second to react, the bus driver did what he had to do in that second, It could have been worse, the bus driver could have rolled it.

conjecture

jackj180 wrote:

You've heard of suicide by train? What you just seen was suicide by bus.

You are making a *massive* assumption there. The driver of the car could have been drunk, he could have fallen asleep, he could have had a seizure, he could have been turned around yelling at the back seat passengers, he could have been on a cell phone, etc., etc. Asserting a cause from just that video footage isn't realistically possible.

.

I'm guessing that Jack got up on the wrong side of his bed today . . .

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Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T

OMG

OMG

Bus driver did right.

Lateral evasive maneuvers in a vehicle with a high center of gravity is dangerous. The driver did all that could have been done, by applying the brakes to reduce impact speed, and slowly going to the right shoulder. Going left of center would have been unwise on so many levels.

Check your own shorts

jackj180 wrote:

Quite right, assume the driver of the other car will do nothing to save himself. Aim for where he should have been and you'll be safe. What a load of crap!!

What will happen 99% of the time is that the other car's driver will correct and then YOU will be the one in the wrong lane. The resultant wreck will be your fault!

Jack j

I think you need to reread what I wrote. I never said always, or most of the time. I said that turning right isn't always the correct move. The natural instinct in a plane is to turn away. That's wrong 99% of the time.

The natural action in a car is to turn right. That's correct 99% of the time, but not 100%

The pilot, or the driver has to see and react correctly for the situation, not just what is a natural reaction.

Sometimes the correct move IS a turn to the left.

I just hope you or anyone else here never has to figure this out in real life.

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Nuvi 2595LMT, Nuvi 1490T, Nuvi 260, GPSMAP 195

Did I miss-read?

Okay, I give up. You're right, the driver should have waited until the wreck was over before deciding what to do. That way he would have the same benefit of hind-sight that you have.

Get real! Moving into oncoming traffic to avoid another vehicle drifting into your lane is never a good idea. You seem to think that the school bus driver should have broken the law, placed his charges in mortal danger and done something you yourself would NOT have done.

I'm done!

Jack j

.

Another sleepless night, Jack?

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Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T

Very Fortunate For The Kids

It's rare that you get to see the accident actually happen and can replay it. Most people only see the aftermath. Unfortunately we may never know the exact reason the driver crossed the center line. It's rare that you see a suicidal person take two other people with him. My bet is on impairment. Either way, this is exactly why it is so important to be paying attention when you're driving. A split second may be the difference between dying or just having to change your underwear.

Whether the bus driver should have turned right or left is a luxury that we can debate. He had a split second to recognize the danger and just as fast had to react. We were not in his shoes. The one thing that worked in his benefit was slowing down. This reduced the rate of closure and quite possibly kept the bus from rolling up onto the car and flipping over. Bus roll overs cause many deaths since there are no restraints to keep the occupants from becoming projectiles.

This is sad

People have had their life change forever.

Wow

Quite a video, the bus driver couldn't have reasonably done anything to avoid that. The other car was going a lot faster and was coming straight at the bus. Whatever turns the bus driver could have made were insignificant in comparison to the turns made by the driver of the car.

It's just a very good thing in this case that buses are so much bigger than cars, otherwise the students and bus driver may not have been so fortunate to walk away from the crash.

Physics

jonny5 wrote:

It's just a very good thing in this case that buses are so much bigger than cars, otherwise the students and bus driver may not have been so fortunate to walk away from the crash.

The laws of physics will always win. Good thing for the kids.