VA state police cracking down on GPS

Saw add on TV for something similar, just a cup with the mount on top instead of the side.

I'm going to make me one for my truck, old coffe cup with round glass cut to fit the top or use the disc that Garmin has been sending with the units.

My Ford truck came with cup holders in the dashboard, for my wife's Altima I have the unit mounted where the factory GPS is supposed to be installed and ran the wire inside the dash to the lighter socket.

Hi Asianfire, I just recently started using the vent mount, I used to have the GPS on the windshield and I kinda like it on the vent much more. It's closer to me and it does not obstruct my view in any way.

I do agree that the VA police are a bunch of BS clowns but unfortunately you have to deal with their law.

Perhaps giving it a go wouldn't hurt.

It depends on how big your gps unit is and where you mount it. Below is the pertinent part of the statute from Virginia's Motor Vehicle Code that would apply to this situation:

§ 46.2-1054. Suspension of objects or alteration of vehicle so as to obstruct driver's view. — It shall be unlawful for any person to drive a motor vehicle on a highway in the Commonwealth with any object or objects, other than a rear view mirror, sun visor, or other equipment of the motor vehicle approved by the Superintendent, suspended from any part of the motor vehicle in such a manner as to obstruct the driver's clear view of the highway through the windshield, the front side windows, or the rear window, or to alter a passenger-carrying vehicle in such a manner as to obstruct the driver's view through the windshield....

I live in Virginia and have driven all over the state with a gps on my dashboard for many years (a Streetpilot 2610 and now a nuvi 660) and have never had a problem. I suppose if a cop wanted an excuse to stop you, a gps on the windshield is as good as any but assuming somebody actually got ticketed for having a gps on the windshield or dash, I am hard pressed to believe that a conviction would be likely.

As you can see, the point of the statute is to make sure that the driver has a clear view of the highway and I doubt that if you have a relatively small to medium sized gps, such as a nuvi or Tom Tom, mounted on either the dash or windshield, any judge would convict you, especially if you took a picture with a cell phone or digital camera and brought it to court and showed the judge how unobstructed your view really was.

My non-SiRF older gps does just fine mounted in the instrument cluster:

http://www.mousetrap.net/~mouse/images/gps/IMAGE_149.jpg

I tried my c340 there too, but I didn't like having to reach through the steering wheel to operate it, and I also prefer the friction mount on the dash. The gps is more along my normal line of site when I'm driving that way: I don't consider my vision to be "obscured."

Putting it on the dash makes the gps more like a HUD (except it's not transparent!).

When I place my GPS on my PT Cruiser Dash, the hood is obscured, but not the road!

Here is the actual California vehicle code so you don't have to speculate or use hearsay:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26708.htm

26708. (a) (1) No person shall drive any motor vehicle with any object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied upon the windshield or side or rear windows.

The whole issue comes down to the perception of driver safety and the rules of probable cause.

We have evolved technology that takes our focus away from the complex act of operating a motor vehicle. I make a living cutting people out of their vehicles. It is rare for someone to admit that they wrecked because they were: playing with the GPS, adjusting the radio, applying makeup, reading the newspaper, eating, talking on the cell phone, etc. However, if you watch the drivers around you on your morning commute, they are doing all of these things and more. Unfortunately people don't always act in their best interests, and government chooses to intercede. I think this is what is occuring in VA.

The other possiblity, is the expanding idea of probable cause for a traffic stop. No one is going to complain if a murderer or drug dealer is incarcerated as a result of a traffic stop initiated due to the unsafe placement of a GPS unit on a cars windshield. I know a city officer where I work that focuses on stopping vehicles for burnt out tag lights. He has the uncanny ability to see a burnt out light in his side view mirror as a car passes him. Those vehicles operated by a law abiding citizen get a repair order. Those with outstanding warrants or other legal issues get locked up. I don't personally think a fine should be levied for misplacement of a GPS, but I'm not a voter in VA.

Well I guess when I move from school back home for the summer I will be screwed.

We the people, control where we go... not police officers.

soooo... If I think a state is not opened to the way I live or the way I travel... I just stay out of that state. For the most part, I can drive around it.

It's all well and good to say you can choose not to live in a state but if you are traveling the I-95 from Florida to NY for arguments sake, it is not practical to avoid an entire state on your route. Additionally, one state sets precedents that other states follow depending on the success of the program the initial state has. Unfortunately, we do not live in a bubble, something happening in another state may not immediately affect you but it would be naive to think that is a permanent state of being as things gain momentum.

I have c340 and use a cup mount fits in standard built in cup holder in center in front of console
and it has a pressure unit to hold it securely in cup holder very sturdy and I love it. Can be bought New on ebay from $19-$49 more expenive ones are sturdier

Mine is made by RAM

rberr

Anyone have any experience, caveats, warnings, praise, etc. for vent mounts? Besides blocking a vent, are these mounts strong enough to hold GPS units securely? The last thing we would want is to hit a bump on the road, and to have the GPS flying around the cabin

There are a number of alternative mounts on eBay ( http://electronics.listings.ebay.com/Accessories-Cables_Hold... )

I too have placed my Nuvi on the lower left of the windshield but I am always leery of a right hand turn right at the time the windshield mount loses grip. Does anyone have any knowledge of a GPS taking a trip out of the window when mounted like this? I guess it would be wise to tether it somehow? Thanks

First, from a friend, who is a former policeman. If the officer is going to write you a ticket for view obstruction, point out all the devices on HIS dashboard.

Second thought - it amazes me where I see people mounting the GPSr. I have seen them mounted smack-dab in the middle of the windshield, centered so the view directly in front of the driver is blocked! As if the GPSr will suddenly show another vehicle in the way for you to avoid, like a radar in a plane!

Most patrol officers operate under direction from authorites far removed from daily highway patrol. They see a poorly placed GPSr on the way into work, and pronounce at the morning de-briefing "look at all those GPSr blocking the view! Start ticketing!" If the patrol officer doesn't start bringing in said tickets, it is noticed. Almost like a quota system, without hard quotas.

Two places to consider mounting a GPSr in a overly-regulated state: (1) in the lower left corner, behind the inspection sticker (mine hides nicely behind the NJ sticker), or on the driver side window, but not blocking the side-view mirror.

No, but the gun rack might obscure the view out of the rear window

If I was an officer and you made that comment, I would write you up with all I could for just being a smart_ _ _!

I would go to court and fight it, or better yet, I would say, "I am extremely sorry, I have a clear view but I will put it higher out side of the view of the road"

Here is the Law..(California)
CVC section 26708 a-2
No person shall drive any motor vehicle with any object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied in or upon the vehicle which obstructs or reduces the driver's clear view through the windshield or side windows....

If you put a mount on the windshield or side windows it give us the Probable Cause to stop the vehicle.

Also in California it's against the Vehicle code to have any thing hanging from the rearview mirror while the vehicle is being driven on any street or highway. This even means the handicap plaques.
There is The Letter of the Law or The Spirt of the Law.
Most Law Enforcement officers won't stop you for a GPS unit on the windshield citation. If you are stopped for a moving violation then you may get a citation for the GPS unit. A lot depends on the driver's attitude.

joemac

Further down in the code, it allows something 5 square inches in either the lower right or lower left corner of the windshield. It just can't be mounted to the glass.

Here is the Law..(California)
CVC section 26708 a-2
No person shall drive any motor vehicle with any object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied in or upon the vehicle which obstructs or reduces the driver's clear view through the windshield or side windows....

If you put a mount on the windshield or side windows it give us the Probable Cause to stop the vehicle.

Also in California it's against the Vehicle code to have any thing hanging from the rearview mirror while the vehicle is being driven on any street or highway. This even means the handicap plaques.
There is the Letter of the Law or The Spirt of the Law.
Most Law Enforcement Officers won't stop you for having a GPS unit on the windshield. If you are stopped for a moving vioation you may receive a citation also for the GPS unit. A lot depends on the driver's attitude.

joemac

PS. sorry for the double reply....don't know how to delete this one.....

ranting... we get it... no one trusts the government or it's employees. I don't agree or disagree with anyones argument on the matter but it's a bit much reposting the same opinions over and over.

Sorry I wasn't clearer - if he is writing you a ticket, not talking to you about the GPSr and explaining he thinks it might be an obstruction, but writing you a ticket (and once he starts writing, he can't stop), THEN point out the obstruction on his dashboard. This is important because he will make note of it, so say it in a respectful way ("Pardon me, but I am not quite sure how my mount warrants a ticket. I see worse examples, and even your dash is a little cluttered). At this point you are getting a ticket, you have decided you are going to fight it, and you need evidence that even police cars have permenently obstructed views and can be operated safely. The point you need to make in court is, my view was not obstructed, I had less on my dash than even a police car.

I was not suggesting you talk desrespectfully to the officer. That never works. I know - I've tried it.

Interesting article, especially pg. 2 about the guy who rents a car and then gets a speeding ticket in the mail.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourCar...

I was eating out yesterday and 2 state Va. State troopers came in and sat at a table next to me. I started a conversation with them about this and in general, this is what they told me. They enforce the law similar to the seat belt law. Normally they will not pull you over just for having a gpsr mounted on your dash. If, on the other hand, if you were pulled over for some other infraction, then they might. I believe it gets down to the owners attitude with the officer for the infraction they were pulled over for. If you are arrogant with them, they may write you for the gpsr, otherwise would let it go. If you were involved in a wreck, then more than likely they would write you for it.
It seems like it is not strictly enforced and depends a lot on the officers mood at the time.

Yeap, and that is the problem...it should never depend on the mood of the officer!!!

As far as being in an accident, they probably wouldn't be able to prove anything since the GPSr would be in the floor or backseat.

The law in VA about GPSr being "obstruction of View" is sooooooooooo faulty. What I mean is, if you are 6'2" and have the GPSr in a certain location, it may or not be an "Obstruction of View". If it is, someone who is 5'3", it might not. I HATE laws that give the officer the ability to use his judgement. I am not saying that officers can't make rational thinking, just that a law should be a clear Yes or No, not well maybe.

That is why Red Light cameras are soooo goood, you ran the light they snap the picture, no if ands or buts...

Yes, I don't disagree with Red Light Cams nor do I really (although I hate them) disagree with speed traps that use laser (although laser is so deadly).

Radar, again, depends on the officer's judgement as too who is actually speeding. Laser, they know who is speeding and don't pull an innocent person.

prismtx they have complain and stell are.

While a little pricy I use a Proclip.

Attaches to the dash and not on the windshield.

like; the simple truth is this is further evidence of government run amok. The niceties of arguing we need to rely on the largesse of individual law enforcement officers to be secure in our persons and privacy is so freaking absurd it warrants immediate, unconditional and derisive put down.

This is a money grab; like 98% of all laws in this country...and it disgusts and sickens me to read horse$h!t like this each and every time. If your GPS blocks your view, so does your rearview mirror...so does the third tailight mounted in the bottom middle of the rear window; so do the inspection sticker...

I advocate this elsewhere and I say it here now, the time for two Americas is coming...let the nanny staters have their own half of the country...ban guns, ban radar detectors, ban GPS units, bans skateboards, tax the crap out of each other all you like...me, I am moving my family to the Free States of America...all the govt. will do in the free states is pave the roads, provide a national defense and arrest any nanny stater that opens his or her mouth about grabbing, banning or curtailing any of my rights as a human!

Regards, Ted

Such as free speech?

PT

but you knew that...besides, ya'll can have your whole own country to socialist up.

Ted

my '04 Tahoe had a perfect place for it right under the center a/c vent. too bad my '08 'burban does not have this same opening...now it is suctioned onto the windscreen.

Man, everything is illegal in Virginia. While there are many, it's almost impossible to be a car enthusiast in Virginia.

Just have to play it smart...

Dont stand out in the crowd, get a radar detector, and get a laser jammer. Most of all, use common sense and a rabbit.

don't worry about it that state is gay (wink-wink)
they dont allow radars

They allow radar, just not radar detectors.

Another nice thing about RAM mounts ... lifetime guarantee ... I used to use (still have) a mount for my eTrex Vista. It cracked, I contacted RAM, and all I had to do was ship it back to them. Within a week, my replacement mount was in hand.

Most states don't allow anything to be mounted on your windshield. It really depends on who's enforcing it and how much money they need to generate for the state.

Cali has the same policy, but I haven't heard of them being very strict on this issue.

I got a vent mount a few weeks ago. It's great. I have it mounted on the driver side vent near the door. It puts the unit just slightly below eye level near the top of the steering wheel. It doesn't pop off at random and the windshield remains completely unrestricted.

Wasn't this tried once before? I seem to recall something of a war to divide the country into two sections... Hmmmm... don't recall it working out too well. Interestingly, approximately 40% of the battles in that war occurred in Virginia. Coincidence?

Actually, I find the thought kind of frightening... especially since I agree with "some" of what Ted said. Just don't see secession as the answer.

you know, if you remove the horrible stain of slavery from the equation, the South was, actually, more right than wrong on a purely historical level...but enough in this thread

BTW, Doc, I took a motorcycle trip through Gettysburg last summer...what struck me as I looked across those verdant fields was how men could stand in straight lines, no more than 50-100 yards apart and shoot at each other...moral suassion must have been a powerful force back then

Regards, Ted

There is no way that I would stand in an open field and just hope that one of the thousands of lead bullets didn't hit me!

I rather fight in the revolutionary war where the rifles were far less accurate and they took pop shots in the forest. Yes, I know that they also fought in the fields too and I wouldn't want to do that either.

Actually, I would rather just stay home and play with my kids!

I'm conflicted on this. I don't see a problem if the GPSr is mounted to the windshield either at the lowest or highest location. However, I'm seeing more and more people with the GPSr mounted directly in front of their face or under the rear view mirror where it sits smack in the middle of the windshield. As far as I'm concerned these people have zero common sense and should be ticketed. Whether or not they get out of the ticket I don't care but hopefully they'll get the clue to move their GPSr to a safer location.

VA is my least favourite state. They even have reckless driving by speed and 80mph and above. Infact, they can even give you a reckless ticket for 75mph and above. Did I mention that they have a law that says you cannot talk to a prosecutor yourself at all? You have to hire a lawyer to talk to the prosecutor. Lawyers in VA charge a lot...and then some of your money goes to the prosecutor under the table from those same lawyers in full view of everyone including the judge. VA has many more laws that are just bogus and stupid. As far as I'm concerned, in VA they are just out to get money out of you and into their pockets.

Actually a lot of states have "reckless speeding" laws. NC is even worse, it is 15 (not 20) over. What really sucks is that on I-95, it is 70, so if you go 10 miles over the speed limit, it is reckless.

We should write Garmin and suggest a new entry in the Avoidance List: "VIRGINIA."

david

We have the same windshield mount law in Minnesota, but as far as I can tell, it is never enforced. I never read the law, I am sure it is based more on view obstruction as others have said. I am fortunate that in my car, even with the windshield mount, when I look at my GPS, it is actually below the bottom of the windshield and not obstructing my view.

The LG ln740 has a wire antenna that can mounted to any glass surface with suction cups included. The GPS unit has plastic disc included to attach to most surfaces, so that would make it a good choice for Virginia residents. It would get a signal from the antenna mounting high on any window and the unit can be placed anywhere other than the windshield.

In Canada I have mine mounted on the drivers side dash. Can't understand the issue. People drive around with dice, charms, all sorts of dangling objects flapping across the windshield from their rear view mirrors. Now that's a Hazard.

Those items are also illegal ... at least around here they are. Doesn't necessarily stop people, though.