VA state police cracking down on GPS

So it comes down to not having it on your windshield and the size of the unit that may be obstructing driver’s visibility even if it’s placed on the dashboard. Morons! I feel sorry for those citizens in Richmond, VA.

Asianfire, you might want to go with a vent mount buddy.

It sounds to me that they are having problems thinking they are radar detectors. I didn't read the link but VA doesn't let you have radar detectors. Bunch of crap if you ask me.

I bring mine to Richmond all time since I always seem to be there. Guess I better watch were I mount it in those rentals.

that has a gazillion gated communities. Each one requires vehicles that enter on a regular basis, to display the community's sticker on the windshield. the average size of these stickers is about the size of Montana, probably because of the average age of the gate guards.

Contractors and service personnel are required to purchase stickers for each gated community they work in, and it's not uncommon for vehicles to sport up to a dozen stickers, plastered somewhere on their windshield.

Since Virginia seems to be a state attractive to retired people, there must be a lot of gated communities there as well...

Tell me.. With this moronic law (actually, the law isn't moronic... Just the highway patrol's decision on how to enforce it), how do they approach the gated community sticker on the windshield issue?

Looks like the PD gives an IQ test to qualify for the job, and those that score the lowest are hired for the job.

Next thing you know, they'll be complaining about my dancing hula girl on the dash!

Does that mean that I can't set my beer can on the dash of my truck anymore?

Yeah, it is a bunch of bull! if they can't tell the difference between GPSr and RD, that is sad. Now the XM radio receivers and controllers can look much like RDs, but not GPSrs.

Asianfire Said http://www.wric.com/

The above link goes to a local (Richmond, VA) news website and if you scroll down a bit, you will see a picture of a GPS, click on it.

They are cracking down on the placement of GPS and whether or not it obstructs the driver's view. A bunch of BS in my opinion. I guess that it is best to have it mounted on the blue tint of your windshield on the far left. Won't obstruct unless you are looking for planes.

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I Agree with you it is a bunch of BS they dream up any concocksion just to make money

The ... politicians are just after our money and want to enhance their power.

Virtually all politicians are ... and unfortunately many police are just like catfish, ...

The ... and ... forget that they are our employees and are not paid to serve their self interests and personal agendas. I am almost certain that VA just like NY State does not have a law requiring a functioning rear view mirror inside a vehicle. If they did that would make all the semis & buses without rear windows that give a view of the road behind the vehicle in violation of the law.

Since we are not required to have a rear view mirror inside the vehicle mounted in our forward field of vision, but we do have one, we are in violation of the law by having our forward vision impaired by the mirror.

The ... and their lackeys are just using a bogus excuse to get our money. I hope they ticket an enterprising attorney with some time on his/her hands and drags them into court to show how ridiculous this is.

"Congress have no power to disarm the militia.
Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ...the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
---Tench Coxe (Feb 20, 1788)

Let's keep insults out of the posts.

JM

And I thought only California had this silly law. Well, misery loves company.

While it seems to make no sense to me, I read a disclaimer included with my Nuvi 660 that mentions not mounting it on the windshield in CA.

I bought a friction mount, but it appears to place the Nuvi in exactly the same place as mounting it on the windshield. I can't figure why I should have to pay an extra $40 to place the Nuvi in the same position as the included windshield mount???

In the meantimne, I've started using the windshield mount. It just a much cleaner install.

Am I taking a big risk of getting busted?

Is there a bracket that slips into the dash just above the instrument panel that will hold the Nuvi? There seems to be a perfect place to insert a thin bracket mount on the left side of our Camry's dash .

Thanks for your thoughts,

GeneL

From what I understand, it doesn't matter if you mount it on the dash or on the windsheild. If they "feel" that it is obstructing your view, they can cite you.

Very creative, Virginia. Write a law which makes compliance solely at the discretion of the ticket writing police officer. Even if you think it is not obstructing your view, if the ticketing officer does - you're fined. I use the bean bag mount and have never felt it blocked my vision - but if in Virginia, according to that news clip, compliance is solely dependent on whether the ticketing police officer "feels" it is obstructing.

That makes me curious if police officers in Virginia are now in the business taking cash only payments of fines on the spot like in certain other countries I know of since they now have such a flexible law to work with.

I agree, they shouldn't have that discretion, but then again, they have had that a long. They never have to write you a ticket for speeding, etc.

No...you must get a vent mount now.

First and Most Importantly I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY. However I work with attorneys every day and have more than the average persons knowledge of law.

IMHO the law if it is as stated here, leaves it up to the discretion of the police weather or not it blocks vision, the law can be challenged effectively and declared void.

To be actively violating a law you must be doing something that is provable. Such as speeding. If you say reckless driving, an officer must get on the stand if you challenge the citation and state what you did that was reckless. I could go on with other examples.

If the police testify that he/she felt it blocked your vision without stating exactly why and how he/she came to that conclusion you are not proven to be violating a law regarding unimpeded vision through the windshield.

You can not have a valid law that allows for a conviction of an offence based on how a police officer feels. You are either guilty of violating a law or you are not in violation of the law and the legal authorities MUST provide some kind of proof, not a feeling.

A police officer may take certain actions based on feeling, such as seeing an object under your clothes that they think "might be a gun" and stops you, but you can't be convicted without proof.

If a police officer testifies that he/she got behind the wheel of your car and his/her vision was blocked that opens up an entirely different can of worms concerning whether you gave him/her permission to enter your vehicle, and if you stupidly did so, then the matter of the physical differences between the two of you comes into play.

I think any good trial attorney could cause enough of a problem that the state legislature would have to write a much tighter law, one that would stand up to scrutiny.

"Mejor morir a pie que vivir a rodillas."
Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

What I think may be happening here is a valid concern for safety had been, at some point in history, written into a law... I.E. teenagers hanging everything from fuzzy dice to teddy bears from their rear view mirror.

Evidently, some person, or persons within the highway patrol, unaware or unable to understand the spirit of law, has decided that civil laws need to be interpreted in an anally retentive way, like patent claims, and the law needs to be rigidly enforced.

Like you, I'm no lawyer, but I doubt that any claim of a gps attached to the windshield blocking the view of the driver would hold up in court. If a GPS can block the driver' view, then any car made before Detroit figured out how to bend glass, with a split windshield and a huge bar running down the middle would also be illegal, and anyone blind in one eye would be unable to drive, because an entire half of their vision is blocked.

The officers writing these tickets are making the assumption drivers are incapable of moving their head while they drive. This might be something a person, having been issued a ticket, may wish to bring up to the court. If police officers are driving around without moving their heads, they are certainly putting the public at risk.

Virginia needs money, and it has tried a number of questionable means to procure it. They're charging their own citizens usury rates for traffic infractions and this seems like more of the same.

I kinda thought this would happen only I thought It would happen sooner. July 1 2007 Gov. Kane enacted his abuser driver fees only for Virginia license drivers which I think is unconstitutional and already is going to be challenged in the Virginia supreme Court. You can bet the farm that the Police Officers or State Troopers has already been told what constitutes impaired vision, whether it,s a valet parking stub or a comb left on the Dashboard. This is all about money! Virginia need money to repair and to install new roads because of all the years of neglect and the influx of people moving down here from the North East who have retired and are looking for a much more friendly tax system and a less expansive place to live, Like I did 12 years ago. Money talks and Bull##### walks.This will continue till it is resolved thru the Courts! or the General Assembly.

We know that most politicians are Sc^m and far to many police are like catfish, Sc^m suckers.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Quoted directly from the The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America, July 4th 1776.

Sounds like something Chicago's Mayor Daley would back!

Come on down to South Carolina... Higher taxes, but further away from Washington DC and the state got rid of that stupid yearly inspection sticker years ago. People stop in the middle of the road to talk with friends and neighbors passing in the opposite direction, a gazillion places to fish and a high quotient of un-stressed residents, birds, deer, dolphin and alligators.

The wife and I cruised through here on our boat and the further south we sailed, the more we realized how much we missed the place and the people living here, so we came back and settled in. Glad we did... After 16 years, we like it even better. If you get caught speeding, you pay the same amount we do, and you can mount your gps directly in your line of sight on the hood for all we care.

that's all we need

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10032007/news/regionalnews/taxi_...

We want them they don't. Go figure.

I guess they don't want them because when they hit you, it will now be possible to prove that they cut across 4 lanes of midtown traffic at 50 MPH. It won't look good at the deposition.

One reason I can think of VA. not wanting them mounted on the dash is some GPS are large enough to be gutted, and a RD installed inside of it's case. That's pretty far fetched, and expensive installation, but some could do it. I lived in Va. when the RD law came into effect, and some would put the RD in a plastic weatherproof box mounted in the grill of the auto, and run a speaker wire back to the inside of the car.

http://www.speedtraps.co.il/valentine1/press/TheGreatDetecto...

There are remote mounts available from some of the makers of RD. However in my opinion with LIDAR and instant on radar the detectors are not a very valuable tool from a cost benefit ratio any more. The only unit worth anything at all is Valentine and it is priced at $499 I think it is not worth the dollars vs benefit.

This morning, I saw a Ford Thunderbird convertible with a GPS attached right in front of the driver. He was looking at the car in front of him around the GPS unit.

I may not agree with the crackdown on the windshield mounted units, but this driver had gone too far.

It must have been the leader of the General Assembly for the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Sadly I have seen some knuckle heads with their GPS stuck to the windshield directly in front of their faces. Most recently I saw one this afternoon. So now we all suffer for the few idiots. But seems to me that there are plenty of existing laws about obstructed vision to take care of those outrageous violations without targeting GPS users specifically, as VA has done. Unfortunately, like red light cameras it's all about the money and has little to do with public safety.

Stan

why do they even bother? do people really put it in the middle of the windshield just to obstruct their view?

I would've asked the T-bird driver I saw this morning, but he ran a red light in front of me and was gone.

Incidentally, this intersection didn't have a red light camera. Oh, the irony!

I guess I'm in for a lot of comment; however, I happen to agree with the VA police. I spent a number of years on the professional rally car circuit and we were very careful to ensure that everything in the passenger compartment was tightly secured and we had a totally unobstructed view of the ourside from all quarters. It took me almost two weeks to properly position my GPS (360) to the dashboard in such a manner as to be easily seen and operated without any view obstruction (drove my wife nuts!) Sorry but I'm against hula dolls and kleenex boxes in teh back window. (Ever seen a kleenex box hit a small child when it comes to sudden stop at a combined speed of 90mph? Never again!

Even the pillars obstruct some of omy view but that is an accceptable trade off for MY safety. Anyway, I know I'm in for it so bring it on!

Yeah, but you have worse roads and have to deal with racism. I rather move up to Northern Va, except for the dang traffic.

VA has one of the largest state inspection stickers. When coupled with the local jurisdiction license sticker, these two stickers take up more space in the center of your windshield than do some GPS.

yeap, now that you mention that, they should get rid of those stickers as well.

Compared to PA, the paved roads here are beautiful (except for the trash... We still haven't learned how to cover pickup truck beds). We do have a large number of roads weaving through woods with large oak trees lining both sides, creating the need for focusing on the task of driving. We also have a large percentage of unpaved roads, which may be what you're referring to. I can't speak for the racism part. I've been to other areas of the country and lately have read about racially motivated hate crimes, but it seems to be happening in other states, not here. Maybe I'm wrong about that... But we just don't see it where we live.

You're right, Virginia's high speed roads are good, not as wonderfully drivable as those twisting through the mountains of West Virginia, but maybe more efficient.

Don't think you're the only one with traffic. Last week, I got stopped behind a line of 3 cars, while the first car in line, wanting to make a left turn, waited for a break in the oncoming traffic ( a tractor and a VW bug, I believe). Boy, was I stressed!

Sounds like a lot of very unreasonable replies here in this link. I have no doubt that my Garmin 350 would block my view a lot more than having a red & blue strobe bar and a radar gun mounted on my dashboard, wouldn't you think?

We got off topic there... Sarcasm aside, the police do have a full plate and a lot of serious business to handle day in and day out, but raising money for the local government shouldn't be one of their duties. Their may be a high proportion of individuals who like to shove their weight around seeking employment in law enforcement, and the ranks may be top-loaded with these types, so the word works its way down to the guy on the beat who discovers he/she needs to meet a quota. All of a sudden, you have patrol people looking at GPS units, trying to determine if they impede the driver's view of the road and if they can add another pinch to their weekly list.

This is a poor excuse for law enforcement and the politicians and police supervisors who push this type of slop should be ashamed of themselves.

Yeah, please trust me when I say I don't have anything personal against police. I don't. However, I don't believe that they are any better then anyone else, including myself and I know (cause I have done it) that it is near impossible to pick a person out of a group speeding (unless they are obvious) with radar. I also know that what I think may be an "obstruction of view" would not be one to someone else.

I just put 2&2 together and came up with a possible reason why the state may be looking for more money by any means possible...

I agree with you. This whole discussion seems to be blown out of proportion. Beside what was reported on the VA news station, does anyone out there have firsthand knowledge of a citation actually being written for "GPS vision obstruction"? I suspect that the VA state police are a reasonable group of people and would only issue a citation if the driver’s vision was blatantly obstructed. I have seen people do some pretty bizarre things, and someone mounting a GPS or other device right in front of their face would not surprise me. It is all a matter of reasonableness. I have a Garmin Nuvi 360 mounted on the lower left corner of the windshield of my squad car, and there was never a question of my vision being obstructed.

Unless you are looking for bugs on the ground...lol.

The question of an obstructed view is very subjective as stated in the report. I am 6' 2" tall, and when I mount my Nuvi 660 on the windshield of my Pathfinder, it is down low and out of the line of sight to the road. The view that gets obstructed is of my hood - no problem.

With some of the cue tips I see driving down the road, if they even knew how to use a GPS, for them, mounting the unit up high on the windshield would be fine. Especially since they need to look through the wheel to see.

Common sense (which is not very common), or basic intelligence needs to be applied when deciding where to mount your GPS. Don't put it between your eyes and the road in front of you.

Try this experiment - hold your arm in front of you, and point a finger straight up (pick one - your choice - just if you pick your driving finger, I take no responsibility for possible reactions). Close one eye and move your finger in front of you. Take note of what you STOP seeing as your finger passes by. Now imagine what you would miss seeing if your 3 - 6 inch wide GPS was in the same area of your windshield.

Think!

Joe

BTW, to find the report as it is no longer on the front page, goto the box at the top right of the page for the TV station and search on GPS.

At home, our Nuvi 350 is mounted on the dashboard of my wife's car, but we also use it when we rent cars. The first thing I noticed about the glass mounted suction cup, was the windshields of new cars are so steeply angled, that even if I could reach far enough to mount it in the center of my vision, it's too far away to use. If I mount it high up, near the rear view mirror, I can reach it, but the power cord hanging in front of my face aggravates me and and if I mount it to the left of the steering wheel, my wife can't see or use it, so we end up keeping it in a cup holder on the center console.

I'm wondering if I'm the only one with this spin on glass mounted gps units? It seems to me the suction cup is a nice convenience feature for people who don't have any better place to mount their gps, but it seems to me, that isn't a very good way to permanently mount one.

If I were a product developer (and I am), I'd work on a way to mount gps units to the headliner, somewhere above the mirror and off the windshield (velcro works well on some fabric headliners and removable putty adhesive, the kind that can be purchased in office supply stores, works extremely well on plastics)...

Or a clip that mounts it to the rear view mirror (above or beside... Not in front of:)

Or a dashboard clip, like those already available for some vents

Or a clip that attaches the unit to the center console

Or an adjustable mount directly off the cigarette lighter

Or a "heads up", transparent projector that places the image directly in the line of vision, transparently... Just like in those phenomenal F-16s, so a person could just set the thing on the dashboard in front of the steering wheel.

Or a knee mount

Or a CD disk slot mount (of course, then you couldn't listen to CDs, but with those sexy gps voices, who needs CDs?)

Or, for lefties, a mount that attaches to the driver's window.

Any other ideas?

On the way home I was passing a California Highway Patrol office, so I decided to stop in. A very pleasant officer came out to my car and we discussed the Nuvi placement.

He said that he, too, was using a GPS unit in his own car and that there was no actual CA law that restricts attaching something to the windshield. He gave the Toll road transponder as an example and said that if I attach the Nuvi in the lower right or left hand corners of the windshield that I should be fine. The criteria, he said, was if the view was obstructed.

I showed him the friction mount, which he was quite interested in for himself.

For now, it seems I could be alright using the windshield mount in the lower left corner or using the friction mount set low on the center of the dash.

It seems as if my problem is solve for the moment. :^D

I use some sort of GPS every time i travel - with my job that is a lot. Hertz system, blackberry (mapquest navigator) or my Garmin Nuvi.......and am as guilty as the next guy at paying more attention to the GPS than the road while driving.

That is getting a good bit of attention here in SC with the SCHP - not the placement - but the fact that - like cell phones - they cause a good bit of distraction.

Just yeserday i was behind someone who was "all over the road" and it was obvious that they were trying to operate their "new toy" from Christmas while driving - probably trying to store the new starbucks location - or whatever.

Technology is moving way fast - too many toys out there to "simplify" our lives - which get in the way of being responsible while behind the wheel. Law enforcement will have to crack down at some point - and gps placement is an easy way to start out.

Just my .02

I am a big fan of both law enforcement and the commonwealth where I've lived my whole life. But it's always been "driver beware" here in VA. The state legislature makes no attempt to disguise the fact that tickets and fees are a major source of revenue for the state.

It's long been told that most VSP troopers have an "open door policy." That is, if they open their door, you're getting a ticket. I've been fortunate to get out of 2 tickets from VSP over the years, but unfortunate enough to have received some as well.

I obtained cup RAM mount starts at $19+ ship to
$38 I got $38 one and love it U can remove power source from orig cradel and ad it to new mount.

Mounts are solidly made.

There are mounts for several type GPSs esp Garmin

good hunting