Karen: "Leave the road!" in New Jersey

 

For years before they invented GPS, New Jersey has been difficult to navigate. If an important turn is missed, it might not be possible to ever get back on the original route or make a U-turn. Cloverleafs have ramps missing. Roads cross without cloverleafs. U-turns are prohibited. Roads that were built with intersections and traffic signals have Jersey barriers for dozens of miles where turns are prohibited. (How do you think the Jersey Barrier got its name?)

So I knew that a 3-day visit to the Princeton area would be the ultimate test. Both the Garmin Driveluxe 50 and the cell phone running Google Maps Navigation were tried. Which one would stand out?

We were northbound on U.S. route 1, and our destination was Whole Foods, on the southbound side of the road. The GPS had a good fix and was navigating to a saved place, a Garmin POI:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Whole+Foods+Market/@40.3081269,-74.6704654,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c3e16ad6124c47:0xc90840d0de842fd4!8m2!3d40.3081269!4d-74.6682767

The link can be highlighted and copied into the browser.

As we approached, we could see the Whole Foods sign across the road, when something happened that has never been mentioned at POI Factory: Karen said, "Leave the road!" and I said, "Leave the road?" and my passengers shouted, "Leave the road? What does that mean?"

The GPS was silent for the rest of the trip. 5 miles further, there was a U-turn posted that was part of an overhead bridge to a large shopping center which the GPS was unaware of even though U-turns had been enabled. We arrived at the destination without GPS using only brain power.

Not to be outdone, we repeated this adventure using Google Maps navigation, and Google was unaware of the U-turn.

The conclusion is that in New Jersey, satellite navigation has met its match.

dobs108 rolleyes

I've heard it many times

As we approached, we could see the Whole Foods sign across the road, when something happened that has never been mentioned at POI Factory: Karen said, "Leave the road!" and I said, "Leave the road?" and my passengers shouted, "Leave the road? What does that mean?"

I've heard this many times or at least words to that effect. Whenever a route's destination has no mapped roadways to reach it (and by mapped, I mean it's in the GPS device's map file). I can imagine this happening around cities when there's a new large shopping center at times and even more often in rural areas where the destination is along unmapped roads, very long driveways, etc.

Aha, I entered your lat/long in Google Earth (40.3081269,-74.6704654) and found that location is 0.11 miles as the crow flies from your Whole Foods and is actually in the middle of the nearby forested area, hence "Leave the Road." I expect that once in the parking lot for your Whole Food, if you looked at the GPS destination, it'd show it to be another tenth of a mile away from where you parked.

Here's your lat/long

Your original link is:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Whole+Foods+Market/@40.3081269,-74.6704654,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c3e16ad6124c47:0xc90840d0de842fd4!8m2!3d40.3081269!4d-74.6682767

and this is odd since it contains two lat/longs:

40.3081269,-74.6704654 and

40.3081269,-74.6682767

The first takes you to the forest and the second to the actual Whole Foods.
I'm not sure about Google's URL and which one your GPS was using.

congrats

I hope a kid got in to the U....I met my wife in that town on our first date.

I have always had trouble with NJ and Garmin, with addresses such as 1105 Rt. 46 E (making it up but I'm sure it's a real address).

But lately Garmin seems to just choke. I have the latest map and could not navigate to a Costco in the Baltimore area. I don't know what was wrong with the address. I figure why go through all this frustration when there is nothing to enter on google maps. Just click the destination from a webpage.

But what really takes the cake? We took the MD 200 connector from the eastern I-95 side, to the other, I-270. Garmin showed us as being off road towards the western end and suddenly recalculated. Then we were back on the road and recalculated again. This road completed in November, 2011, and here it is January, 2019. There really isn't any excuse for Garmin's maps to not have this down. For pete's sake it's an interstate highway.

lat/lon in the link is from Google maps

The lat/lon in the link is from Google Maps on the PC. The GoTo was to a Garmin POI imbedded in the map, so the accuracy of the POI cannot be determined. It is not the same lat/lon.

dobs108 smile

Ah New Jersey. Living

Ah New Jersey.

Living close to Jersey I have traveled in it often. My favorite Jersey nightmare is never knowing, when wanting to make a left turn, if you can make a left or do you have to use a 'jug handle' on the right.

Well at least they gotten rid of most of their nearly impossible to navigate traffic circles (roundabouts for you non USA folks)

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

You Can Try

I was born and raised in that section of NJ and I can tell you from experience that NO map of that area is 100% accurate. The Route 1, I-95, NJ Turnpike corridor has been the most rapidly growing part of the state for many years. Map updates are obsolete within months.

Using Google Earth to "vet" your coordinates can minimize that "Leave The Road" message. Use the mall entrance for your coordinates. You can enter the store location as a second set.

Google Earth images can also be out of date however. If the POI is in a wooded field or vacant lot, move the coordinates to the edge of the nearest roadway.

For long driveways or secondary roads not on the map, make the POI location at the intersection with the main road.

Highway dividers or "Jersey barriers" can usually be spotted using Google Earth. Routing adjustments can be made if necessary.

I realize this can be a time consuming process for large POI files or using the GPS itself to make adjustments. I do this mainly for checking routes on planned trips. It's relatively easy to do via EPE or a split screen with Basecamp on one side and Google Earth on the other.

Interesting

soberbyker wrote:

Ah New Jersey.

Living close to Jersey I have traveled in it often. My favorite Jersey nightmare is never knowing, when wanting to make a left turn, if you can make a left or do you have to use a 'jug handle' on the right.

Well at least they gotten rid of most of their nearly impossible to navigate traffic circles (roundabouts for you non USA folks)

Living in PA now, I find it interesting that the state has reinvented the traffic circle or "roundabout" idea which NJ spent many years and many millions of $$ to eliminate! Go figure.

Interesting!

I have never had that happen, but I try not to go to New Jersey. (No offense intended.) I think I have been to New Jersey once and that was back in 1969, I believe. I did have my Nuvi 350 shut down on me years ago when I was driving on a newly constructed road that hadn't been included on the map. After several 'Recalculating' announcements the GPS just shut down. It was quite funny at the time. I waited a few moments and turned the GPS back on. By that time, I was back on the existing road and I had no more issues. It was like the thing threw a temper tantrum. grin

--
It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. ----George Washington

while

maddog67 wrote:

I have never had that happen, but I try not to go to New Jersey. (No offense intended.) I think I have been to New Jersey once and that was back in 1969, I believe. I did have my Nuvi 350 shut down on me years ago when I was driving on a newly constructed road that hadn't been included on the map. After several 'Recalculating' announcements the GPS just shut down. It was quite funny at the time. I waited a few moments and turned the GPS back on. By that time, I was back on the existing road and I had no more issues. It was like the thing threw a temper tantrum. grin

While I work in NJ, I can tell you that you're not missing anything! We came this close back in 2016 to having to pay NJ income tax. Who knows how many employees we would have lost as a result. Quietly before Thanksgiving without fanfare the Gov. backed down (they also have added 24 cents to the gas tax and never delivered on lowering the sales tax haha).

To give you a clue...say a person works in NYC (very common live in NJ work in Manhattan). That person pays state income tax to New York State, then gets credit for it against their NJ income tax, and makes another payment to NJ, since it's higher! lol

In Massachusetts they called them Rotaries years ago

bdhsfz6 wrote:
soberbyker wrote:

Ah New Jersey.

Living close to Jersey I have traveled in it often. My favorite Jersey nightmare is never knowing, when wanting to make a left turn, if you can make a left or do you have to use a 'jug handle' on the right.

Well at least they gotten rid of most of their nearly impossible to navigate traffic circles (roundabouts for you non USA folks)

Living in PA now, I find it interesting that the state has reinvented the traffic circle or "roundabout" idea which NJ spent many years and many millions of $$ to eliminate! Go figure.

I don't know if they still do or not; but if they are designed correctly, they work fairly efficiently. They have started using them in Ohio and as the years have gone by, they have started building them larger. When they first started building them, they figured that they could just put a circle in, run some roads to it, and it would work. They found out fairly quickly that that wasn't the case. I know of one where school buses was running into the grass, let alone semi's. They are now building them larger and they are more efficient. There is a town off of US 33 near Hocking Hills State Park where they have two of these rotaries. One off each side of US 33. Interesting, but it works fairly well.

--
It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. ----George Washington

Another good reason

for not visiting New Jersey.

--
Garmin Nuvi 765T, Garmin Drive 60LM

.

maddog67 wrote:

I don't know if they still do or not; but if they are designed correctly, they work fairly efficiently.

~snip~

I know they could. I've seen videos of them in Europe where they seem to work just fine. BUT, the ones in Jersey I've traveled tended to dump 4, 5, even 6 streets into the circle, some with 3 lanes of traffic, and the circle could have 3 lanes around as well. In this area folks tend to have a me first attitude and getting from inner to outer lanes could make a NASCAR driver cry. They were very kaotic and I, a professional truck driver, would go out of my way to avoid them.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

yes

I routinely go through 2 or 3 here in northern Ohio that have stop signs at every road entering the round-about. What's the point of that? Every now and then, I see a police car writing tickets for, I suppose, rolling stops.

--
I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

Ah ..

bdhsfz6 wrote:
soberbyker wrote:

Well at least they gotten rid of most of their nearly impossible to navigate traffic circles (roundabouts for you non USA folks)

Living in PA now, I find it interesting that the state has reinvented the traffic circle or "roundabout" idea which NJ spent many years and many millions of $$ to eliminate! Go figure.

Having had to deal with 3-way and 4-way stops when I lived in the US I'd rather have traffic circles any day smile

--
Where there's a will ... there's a way ... DriveSmart50LMT-D, Nuvi 2508LMT-D, 1490LMT, 1310, Montana 650T, Etrex 20

Arc de Triomphe

I was in Paris as a tourist and came up on Arc de Triomphe. They have a big roundabout around it. I just stood for probably 20 minutes just watching how the drivers were handling the roundabout. It looked totally chaotic and everyone for themselves. But after a while you realize that it it actually works really well. I would probably avoid it as a tourist driving in Paris.

JCA

Motorbikes in Naples

jcavaa wrote:

...it actually works really well. I would probably avoid it as a tourist driving in Paris.

And I saw how easily swarms of motorbikes in Naples crossed the double yellow line and took over an entire lane on the wrong side of the road in the morning rush hour.

dobs108 shock

Arc de Triomphe

jcavaa wrote:

I was in Paris as a tourist and came up on Arc de Triomphe. They have a big roundabout around it. I just stood for probably 20 minutes just watching how the drivers were handling the roundabout. It looked totally chaotic and everyone for themselves. But after a while you realize that it it actually works really well. I would probably avoid it as a tourist driving in Paris.

JCA

I could watch traffic there forever! Les flics (the police) don't go thru the circle without their flashing lights. I remember a Maseratti that would go past an exit and pull over to stop and catch his breath, only to repeat in a few minutes. Endlessly amusing.

Yep

KenSny wrote:

I routinely go through 2 or 3 here in northern Ohio that have stop signs at every road entering the round-about. What's the point of that? Every now and then, I see a police car writing tickets for, I suppose, rolling stops.

I agree. I live in Northeast Ohio, (Lake County) and the state has built at least two new roundabouts in the last few years. I'm not nuts about roundabouts but they were very quickly added to the Garmin map and they seem to do the job IF ONE IS PAYING ATTENTION.

Phil

--
Phil in Mentor, Ohio -- Garmin Nuvi 1450

You haven't lived

You haven't lived until you've gone thru all the roundabouts in Mexico City! There is almost one in every block. I finally did like the locals did and just closed my eyes and went like hell.

--
Nuvi 2460LMT

not just Mexico city

mmullins98 wrote:

You haven't lived until you've gone thru all the roundabouts in Mexico City! There is almost one in every block. I finally did like the locals did and just closed my eyes and went like hell.

not just there, it seems the people that do traffic management(I use the term very loosely) seem to have fallen in love with them. I you travel 89a I think it is, near Sedona AZ you hit one after another.

89A and 179

blake7mstr wrote:
mmullins98 wrote:

You haven't lived until you've gone thru all the roundabouts in Mexico City! There is almost one in every block. I finally did like the locals did and just closed my eyes and went like hell.

not just there, it seems the people that do traffic management(I use the term very loosely) seem to have fallen in love with them. I you travel 89a I think it is, near Sedona AZ you hit one after another.

Hwy 89A has a couple but most are on Hwy 179. Doing them all can make you dizzy. confused And to Garmins (Here's) credit, they appeared on Garmin GPS devices quickly.

Check out the magic Roundabout

in Swindon England. Five mini roundabouts arranged around a central roundabout. Traffic on the central roundabout revolves in the opposite direction. Apparently disliked but incredibility effective.

Yep

It's great. It's where around 6 roads come together and whoever thought it up must be a genius. There are multiple ways you can go through the intersection so you just choose the less busiest one. Magic indeed smile

--
Where there's a will ... there's a way ... DriveSmart50LMT-D, Nuvi 2508LMT-D, 1490LMT, 1310, Montana 650T, Etrex 20

yup

zeaflal wrote:

in Swindon England. Five mini roundabouts arranged around a central roundabout. Traffic on the central roundabout revolves in the opposite direction. Apparently disliked but incredibility effective.

sussamb wrote:

It's great. It's where around 6 roads come together and whoever thought it up must be a genius. There are multiple ways you can go through the intersection so you just choose the less busiest one. Magic indeed smile

Yes, everytime traffic circles/roundabouts come up so does Swindon, in fact I've posted links to it many times, and was tempted to bring it up again here. Some probably even expected me to do so.

It's famous for sure, there are even Swindon survival videos, they should give out stickers "I Survived Swindon" for first time travelers.

I have to wonder though, if it's so magical, why is it the only one of its kind?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kafx_GGHqVg

.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Yowser!

Two thoughts

1) I see no signage anywhere. How would a first-timer ever know what to do?

2) I'd love to hear how a Garmin GPS would route someone through it.

Well ...

There's clear signage as you approach that clearly isn't visible from the air.

@soberbyker thanks for the video. They've changed the design since it was introduced, and I only experienced the old design. Looking at this newer layout I'm not sure they've made it better, the advantage of the older layout was it was all mini roundabouts given a wide choice of routes, now you seem to be more channelled in certain directions.

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Where there's a will ... there's a way ... DriveSmart50LMT-D, Nuvi 2508LMT-D, 1490LMT, 1310, Montana 650T, Etrex 20

sussamb: Do your GPS units

sussamb: Do your GPS units (those sold in Europe) have a specific AVOIDANCE checkbox for that piece of magic?

I drove in Rome back in the 60's and thought that was something I never wanted to do again. Second time to Rome I let the taxi driver do it.... that was fun! The suicidal motor bikers are nuts!

--
I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

Nope

But it's made me think, I must run a simulation through that area and see what happens smile

--
Where there's a will ... there's a way ... DriveSmart50LMT-D, Nuvi 2508LMT-D, 1490LMT, 1310, Montana 650T, Etrex 20

another video

sussamb wrote:

There's clear signage as you approach that clearly isn't visible from the air.

@soberbyker thanks for the video. They've changed the design since it was introduced, and I only experienced the old design. Looking at this newer layout I'm not sure they've made it better, the advantage of the older layout was it was all mini roundabouts given a wide choice of routes, now you seem to be more channelled in certain directions.

Sussamb, the 'mini' circles are still there, some of the paint has worn off. Maybe folks used to the circle figured the best way through and disregard the mini circles?

It's odd that they seem to take a right hand drive approach but everywhere else you guys drive on the left.

Here's another video that explains the purpose and how to traverse it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OGvj7GZSIo

.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

.

CraigW wrote:

Two thoughts

1) I see no signage anywhere. How would a first-timer ever know what to do?

2) I'd love to hear how a Garmin GPS would route someone through it.

Some ground level shots here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D22BOOGbpFM

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Last one

Here's a dashcam view through the magic circle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z2LdPtX0C0

.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Yep ...

soberbyker wrote:

Sussamb, the 'mini' circles are still there, some of the paint has worn off.

Yes, I see that but they've added other 'street furniture' since I used it last that in my view limits some of the previous options.

--
Where there's a will ... there's a way ... DriveSmart50LMT-D, Nuvi 2508LMT-D, 1490LMT, 1310, Montana 650T, Etrex 20

Oh my

soberbyker wrote:

Here's a dashcam view through the magic circle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z2LdPtX0C0

.

I fear I'd be so concerned about the roundabout issues that I'd forget to drive on the left. redface

Well ...

sussamb wrote:

But it's made me think, I must run a simulation through that area and see what happens smile

My Garmin coped well, simply treated each mini roundabout separately and guided me through.

Caveat: That was in simulation mode.

--
Where there's a will ... there's a way ... DriveSmart50LMT-D, Nuvi 2508LMT-D, 1490LMT, 1310, Montana 650T, Etrex 20

interesting

I commented to my wife about the OP's original post and she reminded me about the time we were in Eastern PA and the GPS told us to turn left and arrive at our destination. We could not, the road was divided with no way to turn, and it kept wanting us to make a U-Turn. Not possible. I ended the route (just to silence it) and made a right exit, then left onto a bridge and went over the road, then made a left to get back on the road again. I suppose the locals know how to get there, but technology did not.

--
I never get lost, but I do explore new territory every now and then.

new to me

That's new to me too. I'll look out for it