Quicktrip coordinates

Welcome to the issues associated with custom POI alerts. Take your time and read this FAQ, especially right now for its "along the road alerts" which is what you're doing:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42425

Almost certainly, the issue is that the Quicktrip POI file uses the actual building location for the POIs, and if a Quicktrip building is more than 98 feet from the center of your roadway, you will not get an alert.

There are two solutions to your problem:

1) The perfect but really time-consuming solution is to revise each Quicktrip POI location from the building to its driveway entrance. (This is why the Rest Areas POI file always gives alerts since it's POI data is set for the exit ramp, not the rest area buildings.) This would best be done by the maintainer of the Quicktrip POI file but realize that asking the maintainer to do this is a very big task, with the effort needed controlled by the number of Quicktrip locations. Most likely, the maintainer got the locations from a Quicktrip website and each lat./long. is set for the building. To ask the maintainer to revise the file to work as you want would require that for each location, the maintainer go to the location for each site, then with Google Earth or similar program, find the driveway entrance to the site and change each location's lat/long from the building to the driveway.

2) Change the current Quicktrip POI file from a standard "along the road" file to a TourGuide file and set a radius for your advance warning. This is a very quick fix but there are a couple potential snafus you need to be aware of: a) a TourGuide MUST have an associated custom alert sound which these days should be a wav file although older devices can handle mp3 audio; and b) setting a radius too large will result in false positive alerts due to nearby POIs adjacent to, but not on your route. This is discussed a bit more in the School Zone FAQ for older GPS devices that don't come from Garmin with School Zone alerts:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42419

If you really want Quicktrip audio alerts with the current POI file, the TourGuide option is what I suggest you try.

Good luck and report back if you need more help after reading the FAQs and trying it out.

I am the person that maintains this file, not sure what you mean by "set up the coordinates", but these coordinates were obtained by the use of GPS Visualizer. This program uses the address to determine the coordinates. Input an address and receive an output (coordinates). The configuration of this file provides the info for a user to get to a location and in this case to a QuikTrip location. Using Google Earth, I just checked over 30 of the locations in your area (Scottsdale,AZ as indicated on your user page) and I found that only a couple of them were not at the specific locations in the file and these can be easily seen visually from the actual coordinates. I use the gps visualizer program to obtain the coord, due to the fact that it is not practical for me to either travel to each location or to use google earth or a similar method for each location and in this case, 771 locations. I rely on inputs from users like yourself to provide an "accurate" set of coordinates for a specific location and I can than correct the file. If you have any specific more "accurate" coordinates, please send them to me.

Yes,I understand the delimma, I was just comparing that particular file to other files that I have setup as favorites and use the same information, such as a.csv file, .bmp and .wave file. The only file I have noticed in Phoenix , that was not accurate, was the QT file, For example everytime I approach a Black Bear Dinner location, I always get an audio alert several blocks, perhaps 1/4 mile away from its location. I've checked this with several locations. The same is true will my SHELL file, I always get an alert about 1/4 mile from the location. But with QT stores, and I have driven by about 3 of them, one is just a couple of blocks from my house, it sometimes gives an alert , sometimes it does not, unless I am actually on their lot. I can be sitting in my car , at the intersection of where the store is located and I get no alert. the point is that I have to be right on the lot for the alert to sound. Its unlike any other file I have saved as favorite with alerts. So I just assumed that the coordinates were off but im no expert so I guess Ill just live with it. I can always see the QT icon on the map ,If i look at it, but if I were out of town , it would be more difficult to get an advance alert when a QT station is ahead or near. Didn't mean to cause a problem, I was just making an inquiry. Thanks for your input.

since I also maintain the other 2 files that you mentioned, Black Bear Diner and Shell. I use the same method in compiling all 3 of these files. How about sending me the specific ones that are giving you the problem? I will look at these and see if they need correcting.

Yes I download POI's but before I install them to my GPS I use EPE editor to set up my own desired alert distance points, it's easy.

A review of the FAQ found at
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42425
may be helpful to this discussion in order to understand exactly how our devices provide "alerts".

Next, let's consider how a maintainer establishes coordinates of the locations within the file. Most of us maintainers use some program to take an input file and let it derive coordinates. The problem is that such programs may be using data that does not accurately determine where the POI is located on the ground - it might be the point on the ground on the "road" you would pass by the POI, or, it might be the front door of the POI, or, it might be somewhere else.

So, the only way to "accurately" locate a POI is for the maintainer to first determine where to place coordinates. This might be the "front door" of the POI, or, it might be an "entrance" where a person driving would exit the nearest road on the way to a POI.

To understand how this is pertinent, consider Walmarts. They are usually set way back from the nearest road in order to provide adequate parking spaces. An "along the road" alert would likely not work for Walmarts that used the "front door" coordinates because the "front door" would almost always be more than 30 meters (98 feet) from the road.

I use the "entrance" (driveway) technique for all of the files I maintain. This would let @gerrydrake get alerts for every POI in my files.

HOWEVER - this does require me to look at every POI in every one of my files. I use Extra POI Editor (EPE) by Turbocc to inspect a satelite representation of the POI address, locate an appropriate entrance, and then move the "coordinate marker" to that point on the ground. While this takes time, I feel that it gives a user of a POI file the maximum benefit.

Just to be sure we're all together on the issue, let me reinforce what's been said:

-if you have the standard "along the road" alerts set for 1/4 mile, what you're seeing hearing is exactly as we would expect assuming the 1/4-mile alerts you do receive come from POI locations where the data point is within 98 feet of the center of the roadway you're on and that no alert (at any distance except when you actually drive into the location taking you into the parking lot) will occur when the POI lat./long. is greater than 98 feet from the center of your roadway regardless of what alert distance (1/4 mile in your case) you set.

-as suggested, it would be very useful for each QT you find that does not alert, that you contact the maintainer of the POI file with your finding.

-also as suggested, a quick fix that will always work for you (with potential false positives if you set too large an alert distance) is to change the "along the road" alert to a TourGuide alert. Since you mention in the OP that you have a custom audio alert wav file alreay associated with the POI file, all you need to do is change the csv or gpx file name from, for example, QuikTrip Stores & Travel Centers.csv to QuikTrip Stores & Travel Centers_TourGuide.csv and also for the wav file and if present, the bmp file.

-although not discussed yet, I can see one other situation that may cause intermittent alerts with "along the road" alerts. This occurs if the QT location has multiple driveways from different roadways. A good example of this would be POI files for businesses in a large shopping center that have multiple entryways to the shopping center. Unless the POI maintainer has a data point for each entryway (which could create other issues like multiple alerts), if your route sometimes takes you to the entryway with a POI data point, you will receive an alert while the times when you approach the shopping center from a different direction and enter from a non POI data-pointed location, you'd get no alert.

If you carefully read the FAQ made by jgermann, this will make sense.

But all in all, you have two ways to succeed in getting QT alerts: contact the file maintainer and report the non-alert, then download and install the revised POI file; or use a TourGuide alert instead.

The specific QP locations I am referring to are (1) location at the intersection of Happy Valley Rd and 67th avenue. SW corner. (2) I think this one is located at the SW corner too, of 67 Ave and
W Thunderbird. Thanks

Were you driving on Happy Valley or 67th?

I was driving on 67th, north and south. Driving north or south on 67th, produced no alert. when I drove on Happy Valley Rd east of 67th av, same result, no alert. However, driving west on Happy Valley Rd, west of 67th Avenue, it worked much better in this direction. Which led me to believe that the coordinates used for that QP location were actually west of its actual location. (just a guess).

What you can expect with the present coordinates in the file:

6721 W Thunderbird Rd, Peoria,AZ 85381, Store No 430|623-362-1504

Location at SW corner of 67th and Thunderbird
Alert; would alert when traveling east on Thunderbird
may alert when traveling west on Thunderbird
would not alert when traveling either north or south on
67th

6739 W Happy Valley Rd, Peoria,AZ 85383, Store No 436|623-878-3937

Location at SW corner of 67th and Happy Valley
Alert; would alert when traveling east Happy Valley
may alert when traveling west on Happy Valley
would not alert when traveling either north or south on
67th

Only 1 set of coordinates might possibly give an alert for east,west,north,south and that would be at the center of the intersection. I said might possibly give an alert. When you
have multiple lanes of traffic such as these intersections and you are traveling in the farthest outside lane, you still may not get an alert.
However,I will not put these in the file. My personal preference for the files that I maintain is to use a poi address. I want to know if a location is either left or right of the direction that I am traveling. I will not intentionally put a set of coord in the
middle of a road,highway or intersection.

NOTE: 1 Exception is the Rest Area File.

I plan on putting the new coordinates at the SW corner of these locations, but not directly on either road. This would provide the following:

Alert; would alert when traveling east on Thunderbird or Happy Valley rd
may alert when traveling west on Thunderbird or Happy Valley rd
may alert when traveling south on 67th
would not alert when traveling north on 67th

For those members/users that require an alert for all directions of travel, please refer to the subject on Tour Guides

Thanks for your detailed explanation Mahoney and for all the careful detail you put into the many POI files you provide for us. As with many things in life, there are compromises that have to be made and no perfect solution that fits all cases (or even a single case as you demonstrated in this situation).

Thanks for the explanation. I was unaware that just traveling in another lane, in any direction, would negate an alert. I assumed that if you set an alert for example, for 500 yards, just being in another lane would not make a difference. I guess it's different with rest areas, where you get an alert no matter which direction or lane you're in, at the same distance away from the rest area location.

Not to beat a dead horse but a truly simple solution to getting alerts from the existing POI file is to make it a TourGuide. Given that there are only about 17 Quicktrips in Greater Phoenix, false positive alerts would be rare with a quarter mile alert distance (a radius distance) given the size of Greater Phoenix.

Not to question anyone's reason for adding alerts to a custom POI, I don't think I'd like to receive alerts whenever I'm passing by any kind of a chain business. It's true that QT wouldn't alert as often as a McDonalds or Starbucks, but I do think many folks would keep the POI file but drop the alerts after hearing them as frequently as they'd appear on a driver's route.

CraigW, YOU ARE A GENIUS .iVE BEEN ON THIS SITE FOR PROBABLY CLOSE TO 15 YEARS AND i NEVER KNEW THAT. I SIMPLY WENT IN AND INCLUDED THE _TOURGUIDE EXTENSIONS TO THE CSV, BMP AND WAV FILES AND VOILA, IT ALERTS PERFECTLY COMING AND GOING IN ANY DIRECTION. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.
I agree about having too many alerts but in my usual travel pattern, I only encounter about 3 QT markets. So, I dont hear it often. Im more interested in when I travel, to be alerted because I use a credit card for Quick Trip stores , so I like to stop there when I can.

That's great news, gerryd. TourGuides are a good workaround when the standard alerts fail to alert all the time. But as you found with your other custom POIs with alerts, if the standard alert works, use it rather than going the TourGuide route.

I do the same. I also drag the marker to the driveway or beginning of an off ramp to the POI.

One has to think about what POI files you set proximity alerts.

Do you really want the GPS constantly giving alerts for gas stations, convenience stores and donut shops.

It could drive you nuts. I only set proximity for rest areas and red lights.