Britain to Ban Social Media for kids under age 16

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AI should be banned as well...of course, now that THAT can of worms has been opened, there's not really anything that can be done.

We "old timers" learned the old fashioned way. Pretty soon, there will be no human creativity.

I, for one am happy that I'll only be here awhile longer and not have to deal with humanity being stifled by an "intelligence" greater than ours.

It's very funny. A week ago, I would have 100% agreed, and have said as much here and elsewhere. But I had a bit of an "epiphany". I am working on some very complex code for the new boydsmaps, which will actually be a virtual unix operating system that runs a mapping app, right in any web browser. Last week, I was doing my usual google searches to figure out some things and started looking at the ai summaries. They always ask a few questions, like "Can I help you write some code to illustrate this?" So, I figured, why not? 5 hours later, I finally tore myself away from the keyboard. The cat was sitting there, staring at me as if to ask "Are you ok?"

That experience pretty much sold me that ai was a lot more than I had assumed from all the hype. So, I signed up for the new $5/month Pro Plan. It's like a super Google Search and can be used the same if you like. But it has memory, so you can get into complex technical discussion without repeating it all the next day. And you build a library, full of whatever you want the ai to know about you.

Quite an experience. I have to admit, I was wrong. It's a mind-boggling tool for anything technical and complex. Ever think you might want to learn how to code? How about a teacher that knows everything, never thinks anything is a dumb question and has infinite patience? If you've ever considered anything like that, you owe it to yourself to at least spend an hour checking it out. And you don't have to buy anything, the regular, free google search does it all. I was amazed it let me spend 5 hours of intense coding without shutting me out. But, evidently, that's the way it works. It may slow you down and switch you to a simpler model if you start hitting limits, but it never shuts you out. The paid plan lets you go much deeper, with a better search engine that digs deeper.

My head was spinning. And has barely stopped. You can also just BS on any topic you want, for a break. Honestly, most of the time I'd be hard pressed to tell I'm not texting a human. It's freaky. Here's the thing, AI is a tool. It's all about how you use it, and unfortunately, lots of people are not using it for anything productive. But here's the craziest part for me. I have often "daydreamed", what if boydsmaps were a real company and I could hire a couple other people. Right now, I'm the bottleneck, with just one person writing the code, managing the server, making the maps. Then I always snap back to reality, because there's no way I'm gonna hire anyone.

It never even crossed my mind that ai could take the place of a couple real people. But it sure seems to be, and willing to listen to all my crazy ideas without dozing off, it doesn't take vacations, I don't pay employment taxes or provide benefits. And all of this costs me $60/year (which, apparently, I can even share with 5 family members). As exciting as that is for me, it's also just scary and truly does not bode well for young people seeking entry level jobs.

But, as someone who's been a "human creator" his whole like, it's very clear that the stuff us old-timers learned is changing. Approaching my 77th birthday and not like some starry eyed kid. I think the proposition is simple: AI is gonna use you, so you'd better learn how to use it. And that might be more fun than you think. It's actually a fantastic creative tool, but you have to guide it. That will always require human creativity... unless you're satisfied with AI slop.

There's been so much AI hype, I just didn't take it seriously. Meanwhile, it has gotten more powerful than I could have ever imagined. Seriously, all you cranky old guys - take the time to check it out. And not for some silly stuff (although you can, if you want). Pick something technical that interests you and try using the ai to explore it. I told the ai I wanted it to be both and assistant and a tutor, it said that's exactly what it does best.

One quick tip, which I didn't understand until I tried. Using the regular old google search (just go to google.com), the search box is pretty small, but just ignore that. You can type as much as you want in there, but just finish your thought before you hit the return key. And it will process a long question in about a second. Alternately, write your question in a text editor and paste it into a google search, that way you can break it into paragraphs. This was the realization that led me to realize that ai was a lot more powerful than I thought.

When you mention creativity, the musicians I listen to were all born in the 1940's. They were the children of rock and roll.

They wrote complicated tunes based on blues and jazz, often with 11 verses and tunes that could only be faked. Not verses, but 7 parts to a song, 7 parts. I don't think I'm allowed to simply copy/paste a song here, so google Terrapin. Lady with a Fan is part 1.....I used to play that tune.

Today, a hit can make an artist with a song that has 2 or less chords and nonsense.

AI can be used to spoof the works of above.

I carried my guitar everywhere I went when i was 19-25. I can't remember the last time I saw a 19 yo randomly carrying a guitar and then jamming with 10 other people in a public place.

When kids say things are a waste of motion and for old people, I just laugh. My next car will be my last and it will again have a manual transmission. So what if it's 1 sec slower 0-60.

A team won the Stanley Cup last night. There were rules, and a grueling season leading to the win. They had to expend a lot of motion. Imagine if sports were like the office where lying cheating and making things up helped a person to succeed lol

At any rate I have a 12 yo and as best we can we want him to be rounded. He plays ice hockey. He's a scout. He volunteers at his church. He goes to karate, swims, and well it's only 6th but distinguished honor roll. He's doing a lot that I did not. I had to figure a lot more on my own, but, clearly got less attention from my parents who were always "don't call us if you end up in jail." So I didnt when it happened.

Will he end up average and struggle as most do in 2026? Probably. But at least he can create his own destiny or think that he can. I caught him giggling playing PS5 with the Phillies winning 42 to 7. he was on purpose hitting every batter that came up to the plate. he's a kid. We all should feel the joy of doing something stupid when there are no consequences.

Are we all doomed? lol I don't want to answer. But kids can do something about it if they want to.

This is a part of the reason for my feelings about this. I've played bass guitar (rock) since about 1977. I was self-taught. I still play, although only recreationally now. I know what it's like to create something like music.

We dad played his accordian (Russian folk songs) and us kids sang along (in Russian). We had fun (well, up to a point).

We now have AI that will create music for you, in any style of music you want. It skims off of what's already been created by humans and artists and gives it to you on a silver platter as if it's yours. There's a YouTube channel I watch(ed) where the creator claimed that he "penned" the music for. Later it was revealed that he only supplied a few lyrics and that AI was used to generate the songs.

Back to the topic of teens and social media, now instead of learning to actually write music, go ride a bike, go build a soap box derby car, they are glued to every morsel of information that's constantly being fed to them.

My girlfriend is guilty of that as well...and she's 64 (as I am). I have to constantly make cracks to her about it, to put the damn thing down and even take it away from her at dinner. She used to go out and garden...now, not so much. A kid is so much more impressionable. Hell, she and I are old, it doesn't really matter that much about it at this point in time but I feel like if I don't say anything at all, she'll NEVER put it down.

These kids are our future. I applaud the UK for this and I hope other countries will follow.

I have no argument with a social media ban. That has nothing to do with being "100% against ai" though. And, guess what, I also play guitar, started with electric in 1969 and got my first acoustic (1973 Gibson J-50 Deluxe) brand new. I still have it, and it fell into very poor shape. A luthier worked some magic on it 10 years ago and was - quite literally - better than ever. My son in law (who plays bass and guitar and still gigs in NYC when he can) loved this guitar and it was the first he would grab from my collection. Not to get into the weeds with guitars, but I gave it to him on permanent loan. Not a big sacrifice because I also have a 1965 J-50 ADJ, at 2008 J-50 and a 2020 J-50 60's replica (which looks like the real 1965, but is a totally different instrument. And if that's not enough, I also have telecaster thinline.

I started taking piano lessons back around 1958 and still play classical music an opera (although writing codehas monopolized my time mostly now). If that's not enough, I worked in opera for almost 40 years as a designer/techie. my scenic designs have appeared in about 200 productions across North America and I have known many singers, some who became rather well known.

Oh, and I studied Russian for 4 years in high school and a year in college, my father's mother and father (both died before I ever met them) emigrated from Russia at the turn of the century. He couldn't speak a word of Russian but thought it was great that I did. LOL, my parents wanted me to be a translator at the UN or something, so I wouldn't get drafted for Vietnam.

My daughter has a BFA in music theatre and is an amazing talent, although currently working in the NYC buisness world. Granddaughter is a straight-A student at LaGuardia High School for the Arts in NYC - the "FAME" school from the movie/tv shows. She's an incrediblly talented dancer, closest thing to a "prodigy" that I've ever known.

I could go on - I don't do this to brag or anything - just want to make the impression you aren't the only "artist" here. So - really - I value you guys from the GPSReview days! But please - just take my advice and don't dismiss AI out of hand like that. You are absolutely right about the bad things. But we can say lots of bad things about cars, yet we manage to use them responsibly ourselves (hopefully). Just humor me and think of a fun little project. Making a map would be an obvious one, if you've never tried. If you approach the ai like a "tutor" you might be amazed at what you can do. That *could* be a super power for artists, but you have to learn where and how to use it. It's a tool. Period. A circular saw can build a house or it can cut your arm off. You have to know how to use it. And if you refuse, who's gonna get the carpentry gig? You with your handsaw or the guy with the Skilsaw.

Alright, this is getting too "preachy" but if you want to brag about your "artistic" abilities, I can play that too, LOL.

Naw...not bragging. Just a tie-in to the point I was trying to make about AI skimming human-created content just to spit it out with some select few taking full credit for it.

Like you, I'm at the tail-end of my working career so I'm not worried too much about myself as such but more for those who this will affect in the future. Maybe I'll dabble with it at some point but since I was small, I figured out how to do things on my own...that's how I learned and how I still learn. Nothing was ever easy for me or fed to me in a silver spoon like AI hands it out.

It's all good, Boyd. I get your your point and I'm sure you get mine. We're buds...in fact I think we have a lot more in common than you think, but I won't get into that here. Don't want to brag any more.

has blocked almost all AI websites.

When I told my bro who works for a ginormous co based out of Switzerland, he said you have to be joking? We are REQUIRED to use AI to do the annual reviews of ours, and those who report to us.

I thought wow. They are forcing you to do what when I was a kid would have been considered cheating. It's a 40 bil. co. so not tiny.

Sometimes I think European cos are in fact out there, such as have a baby, get one year off with pay, husband gets one month off with pay, and most people never return back to the co after that 1 year. But they provide such a benefit anyway.

About Time they looked at doing something!

…on the topic of AI is the book The Digital Delusion by Dr. Jared Cooney. Dr. Cooney addresses AI across multiple chapters, specifically focusing on how these tools impact learning and memory in youngsters One example is the discussion of a paper hand-held book vs. a display on some digital device. Most of us have probably read a “true” book with some specific content, as an example say a chart of tire sizes vs. circumference on page 100. At page 200 we read some content that says the circumference affects the indication of vehicle speed, engine RPM, etc. In our mind, we know we saw a chart early in the book and want to look at it again. We might even remember it was near the top of the left page and often in seconds we can find that chart. That ability is lost with a digital source; we don’t know where the chart is or where it is located on any given page. That seriously affects the learning process at early ages.

As an mechanical engineer for many years I have taken many open book tests. Conceptually the idea was to not necessarily know the material but where to find it and thus apply it to a situation. We of course today can look at reference material online and even readily search the material. But we still have to go back to the kids and their early days of learning and hopefully change to a better learning model. If you don’t learn early and well, you don’t learn at all. Last week I read that 800 professors in the California secondary education system complained because about 75% of the students (many from STEM high schools) could not read or write a complete and grammatically correct sentence. A truly sad state of our education system.

And - beyond the concerns you expressed - there's the bigger problem that we're all becoming more dependent on digital services to the point that if there were widespread disruptions, chaos would reign. And even if we aren't worried about that, we are becoming more and more dependent on a handful of huge corporations.

I think it's sad how much government IT infrastructure has been outsourced to private companies. I "get" the idea that a private company can be more innovative and probably do it for less and avoid the heavy load of benefits associated with govenment employees. But it just saddens me to see the government become a bunch of bureaucrats wholly dependent on private companies, whose duty to the public is just not the same. Of course, there are benefits.... the USGS has been moving their open geodata to Amazon AWS. Since I'm a big user of them for the maps I make, it's been great to download a huge file in one minute instead of 10 minutes (if it worked at all) from the USGS' own servers.

Regarding students, I have never regretted my own Liberal Arts degree (from the University of Virgina). I've been told more than once by a boss that my writing skills were one reason they hired me. For several years, I wrote quite a lot of letters signed by "the boss" until the company grew larger. I always took that as a compliment instead of extra duties (and we were old friends anyway).

But in terms of the current AI landscape, I'm of two very different opinions. I agree with most of the concerns expressed here and think they will need to be addressed by society. But - in the meantime - AI exists and it's not going away because we don't like it. Look at the astronomical amount of money being poured into AI investment. Some of this is just gamblers at the stock market "casino". But there are also some very wealthy people and companies pouring tons of their own cash into AI. Why? Because they're finding everday uses for it that make them more productive and improve their bottom line. You can hate on that as much as you want, but I would think twice before betting againt it.

So, in this environment, I'm going to take advantage of ways that AI can help me. There's so much hype, it's very hard to see through it. But if you can manage to, it's just unbelievable what AI is capable of today - especially for software development. But you have to (first) open your mind and (later) change your way of thinking to understand what it can do for YOU. This has been a mind-blowing experience for me so far. Only about a week into my AI journey, but it's going far better than I ever could have imagined. I'm not talking about adding cheesy features to my website so I can say it's "AI enabled". Users will never see the AI, but it's helping me build something much cooler than I imagined possible.

In the end - if people with torches and pitchforks storm the data centers and shut them all down, I'll just go back to what I've done for the past 77 years; doing it all myself!

But that's because you KNOW how to do it yourself. You've been taught or figured it out on your own.
Others may not be that lucky and won't have these skills to fall back on. They won't have their AI to help them out.

Somewhat related...the girlfriend and I were in Target a few months ago. We were looking for staples which we could not find. So we asked one of the workers there on the floor (of course, MUCH younger that us) where the staples were. We were shocked when she asked "What are staples?". She had to look it up on her handheld device.

Oh, no argument there. But that's my point.... every man for himself! I know what I'll do... you guys are on your own. LOL

But seriously, of course you're right. And what about 50 years from now, will people even have a way to know what is truth and what is fiction? I sure would't count on a google search to find out, and it might be hard to find a library with hard copy books.

Like I said, we basically have the same concerns about AI. But how we *act* on them, that's where we differ. AI exists, that's a fact that I can't change no matter how hard I try. And don't expect the angry mob to storm that data center.... that would go very poorly for them. So, I'm going to use AI to *my* advantage, and the more I learn, the more massive I think that advantage is. It's like... are you gonna climb aboard the ark or just yell defiantly at the sky when the deluge comes?

But that's all way too melodramatic, fortunately it's not that bad yet. I can only say, with each day I'm more and more amazed at what AI is capable of when working with computer stuff.

It's so much more than just a tool for writing computer code. It's like a graduate course in computer science, but only for the things I need to know right now and it personalizes themn just for me, because the AI is actually learning how I think and creating the equivalent of a whole textbook chapter just to answer a simple question. And this all costs $60/year. Why would I waste money on an online course, which wouldn't be personally tailored to me and cost much more? (unless I needed some official certification or degree, which I don't)

Then another example emerges. If you follow the business news, there's lots of talk of a SAAS-pocalypse (SAAS = "Software as a Service" - subscription software, in other words). I never paid much attention to that until I saw it myself. I pay $360/year for server management software and the price just keeps going up. I'm developing a plan to dump that entirely and use AI to configure and manage the server exactly the way I want, which will be much leaner, meaner and more secure. Why? Because it's specifically tailored to my very specific needs, not some huge bloated Swiss-army-knife thing to fit every situation. And what will that cost me? Basically - nothing. I already have the AI subscription for working on code ($60/year) and that will help me do it. And the big bonus is... I'm learning so much about Linux administration in the process. Of course, I don't just blindly follow it and have caught a number of mistakes the AI makes (it usually says "you caught me red-handed", LOL). But this is actually how the AI learns, so I'm a teacher as well as a pupil

The world really is changing.... Tame the Beast!

(And by the way, this is really spooky, working on some code at the end of the day, gemini said we would "tame the beast" when I came back today. Really? Do you think it's watching this thread? Very well could be following me around the web, it's already quite aware of my presence here at this site, as that came up awhile ago.)

For the lively back and fourth...seriously. You have your opinions as do I. You're a good guy (I knew this from way back at GPSReview) and I respect you and your thoughts.

Even though my mind may be closed at times (call me stubborn), it's open in ways that I feel are much more conducive to my well being.

So if you hear me yelling at the sky and see me waving my torch, know that I'll be happy in doing so.

Those wanting to see AI get reeled in among kids in particular can be encouraged by Norway (cognizant of an unmistakable trend of standardized school test scores dropping) adapting the following public education norms:

Elementary school kids: near ban... should NOT be using AI.
Middle school kids: use AI only under a teacher's supervision.
High school kids: learn to use AI appropriately, to be prepared for further education and work.

Maybe not as stringent as some here may want, but a step in the right direction.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/norway-imposes-near-ban-a...

I'll add that such a standard is only as good as families supporting it. If parents are undermining the policy by using AI to help their kids with homework, not much is being learned here.

Also UK PM Starmer is stepping down, so who knows what will happen to his proposed social media ban? Uh no, he's not stepping down due to backlash at this proposal which has mostly been supported by UK voters if not AI companies; he's rather stepping down due to unrelated internal UK politics.

I saw a local news segment today here in Los Angeles (linked below) that showed the "employment" of individuals by simply doing housework/chores that they normally do anyways. You wear a phone camera device on your head recording everything you do and this recorded data is supplied to those involved in developing UI enabled "robots" to eventually learn how to do these things...I guess this would be for people who don't want to do these remedial tasks themselves

First off, this "employment" is temporary. When it's done, it's done. YOU didn't learn anything from it. AI did.

Secondly, with people not wanting to do these remedial everyday tasks and having an AI "bot" do them, that leaves the "human" more time...more time to do what? Look for employment that our precious AI is taking over?

Ridiculous.

https://ktla.com/morning-news/gig-workers-are-getting-paid-t...

Long before AI, I along with many of my peers, we were "invited" to submit somevof our DNA to help build out the "Human Genome" project ( think mid 1980's).

~50 of us talked about it for several days during lunch. Eventually, we came to a generally agreed consensus enough protections about our DNA exists to protect us from unscrupulous use / abuse by government & corporations. We all declined to share our DNA and those that I'm still in contact with have never knowingly given our DNA for anything. None of those sites that tell you your lineage.

Police now find criminals from decades old crimes using DNA genealogy lineage databases because they don't require any search warrants. Now, why bring this up? AI has its fingers in this. Lord only knows if our medical providers, when performing various lab tests might not have submitted a sample to see if others with similar DNA have experienced the same medical condition your experiencing.

Now, back to the AI conversation; ( for reference
https://justanotherai.com/history/artificial-intelligence-in... )

When I was working on NLP ( Natural Language Processing ) that was the 1st step to getting a computer to understand your question. Think of it like this;

A child is born into the world. They have no way to communicate their desires / needs / wants. But they have a tremendous ability to get our attention by crying, screaming, fussing, cooing, giggling and all the rest. The older humans, parents, siblings, grandparents parents, peers and others speak our native language to the infant. Over time ( some earlier than others ) infants start formulating "sounds" trying to emulate "language." Eventually, they develop the ability to utter a few words, but not a cohesive sentence. With time, the child learns more words and becomes capable of communicating in limited fragmented sentences. And over time the child's NLP continually becomes more refined, complex and articulate.

That was the 1st step to transition from "normal computer automation" to AI.

Without NLP, its unlikely AI would have become what it is today.

As you said, each time you interact with your AI engine, your AI engine "gets to know you," and it learns from you as well. So your queries in essence become part of its LM ( Language Model ) for possible reuse for your others queries. Each time you formulate your query, the AI engine gathers some of your "Intellectual DNA." This may in the long run prove to be positive or negative, only time will tell.

Its true, AI ( at this point in time ) doesn’t truly have any ability to produce "origional", "creative" or "novel" output on its own accord. All AI can do is take your query, use its NLP to determine what you seek, then search its LLM's for solutions created prior that satisfy your query.

There are some interesting legal questions that arise when using AI.

Say your using AI to create a new "novel" thing ( think program, cooking recipie, electrical circut and the list goes on ). If AI because of your query results in something patentable, must the AI program be listed / identified as a contributor / co-developer / author ?

My biggest fear of AI isn't what it can do for legimiate uses, rather should for any number of reasons if an AI engine should develop any of a number of "mental illnesses" as defined in DSM's. A crazy thought, perhaps, but as its "Intellectual DNA" through its LLM's grows, some possibility might exist for an AI engine to truly go "rogue" and become evil.

Just my crack pot 2 cents!

@BarneyBadass

I'm not much of a writer, but AI (gemini) did help me improve a complaint letter to one of the warehouse club's corporate office after an unpleasant deceptive shopping experience using their website, then lies from the store about shipment status. Jury still out on what the concession will amount to, but so far we've been battling it out via email over the last week. It's been an interesting game of chess to say the least.

I still hate AI and wish we could go back to a pre AI time.

I didn't say AI is or was bad... especially if used for legimate purposes.

AI didn't write your letter, you asked it to help you improve what you wrote.

For me, trying to write something of length is more than difficult and I doubt AI would help me much.

You raised a bunch of good points, and very cool that you were working on natural language processing! I really do agree with almost all of the concerns raised here about AI. My eyes are wide open there, as everyone's should be. But, if you have these concerns, *knowledge* is the weapon you need to fight them ("know your enemy"... if you want to look at it that way). "Yelling at the sky" will not accomplish anything useful. And, IMO, the risk is that while you're looking up at the sky, you may not notice the nuggets of gold at your feet, just waiting to be picked up.

I have been working intensively with Gemini for the past week and a half or so, developing some very complex code. I work with javascript for boydsmaps.com, and it's all my own code, but AI is helping me take it so much farther, especially since this is an incredibly complex new project I'm involved in, building a unix-inspired virtual operating system (all written "from scratch") that runs right on a webpage, complete with its own persistent filesystem and virtual private disk it even has virtual terminal windows for geeks like me This is a long range project with no real deadline other than (sometime in 2027)

But, along the way, I had another fun idea for a new boydsmaps feature that will go live in the coming days, that will give users insight into site usage, with a list of the top ten maps people are using and top ten locations where these people are. It's all secure and anonymized with broad categories that don't disclose anything private. This required some really complicated logic to extract data from hundreds of thousands of logfile entries and condense into two simple lists which are updated every 5 minutes. The backend is a python script that does the heavy lifting and is completely isolated from the website. I barely know python and absolutely couldn't have done that by myself.

But Gemini made lots of mistakes along the way. I caught quite a few myself (and it would always say "you caught me red-handed!" LOL) while we had to do debugging together to find others. Still tweaking it a bit more. Gemini was so helpful, I gave it credit at the end with a simple "Custom boydsmaps user statistics software developed with the assistance of google gemini". I'm not aware of any requirement for that, but it only seemed fair.

Also, after my deep dive into the server logs, Gemini and I also improved the overall security of my site (which was already very good IMO and Gemini agreed). This is just some amazing technology and I am working with it exactly as I would with a real, human employee. But Gemini only costs me $5 month. That is worrisome in and of itself, of course, but in my case, I don't have any money, I could never hire a human assistant, so nobody is losing a job here. And I still write all my own site content and design the visual componenents myself, I don't need AI for that. And Gemini has no direct access to my server, e-mail, calendar or anything else. We just discuss things, it provides suggested code, and I have to manually execute the changes myself. I definitely am not comfortable enough to start giving an AI my passwords and kind of doubt that I ever will be.

The latest push for "agentic AI" is very concerning, and I hope that people really understand the risks before "handing the keys" to an AI in that fashion.

Regarding DNA, I couldn't agree more. Nobody has my DNA on file. I really worry about people who are so cavalier about using things like ancestry.com, that is definitely not for me.

At this point in time, I lump the capabilities of "agentic AI" in with the capabilities of a telephone "Psychic reader."

Basically, if the psychic can tell me something that can change my life, why don't they call me?

I suspect "agentic AI's" capability will, in the end resolve to the equivalence of autonomous vehicles.

Without either a specific "monitored event" ( programmed for ) or a set of one or more conditions being met ( likely being sampled in a given time period ) I suspect "agentic AI" will only be able to respond with solutions to problems that have been solved through prior knowledge.

I rue the day any AI engine acquires the ability to autonomously, without any external input comes up with "origional", "novel" and "creative" new "previously unknown" inventions / works of art ( painting, literature, culinary, medical, scientific, etc..) things ( yeah, thats a technical term geeks use! )

I'm under the impression that the bulk of LLM code generation comes from "swallowing whole" the likes of github and other like sources and using that code as model building blocks. I'm sure that someone somewhere has trained a neural net from high level language syntax manuals and generated code that way but I've never read of that in the little industry news that I do read. I don't read technical journals any longer either.

Develop code that determines how "similar" two things are.

You might get some really interesting responses.

This might be a new way to get it.. and it might be able to get physical DNA as well of much more information and report it to the authorship.. for corporate / government use & abuse...

I'm not a conspiracy person.. but.. there are just to many scary possibilities for all this to go off the rails

https://ktla.com/news/technology/your-smartphone-could-becom...

This is what bothers me the most about all of this. While people right now are playing with and seemingly enjoying all of this AI, they won't be too happy when/if something goes dreadfully wrong.

For starters, I sure don't want a world like the one in that article which was linked to.

But I'm trying to understand what you're getting at here. Exactly who are the "people" you describe who are "seemingly enjoying all this AI"?

Let's start here:

* Google is "all-in" on AI, spending billions to expand for it and integrate it into everything

* Amazon is also all-in, going so far as to replace humans with robots and planning to do it on a huge scale in the future.

* Microsoft is all-in, building their own platform and weaving it into Windows. They are building a huge data center near me, in rural Southern NJ.

* Apple has been criticized for being late to the AI craze, but are still moving in that direction

* Do I even have to mention SpaceX/Tesla/Musk???

Now, let's just look at some recent posts on this forum...

* how about the people here who post long quotes from Google AI searches? Are they part of "these people"?

* There are some threads about high brightness Android smartphones. Google controls Android. Are the people discussing Android "these people"?

* People are discussing the use of Google Maps, from the company that is weaving AI into everything. Are they also "these people"?

* Somebody posted about his Tesla. Is he one of "those people"?

* Lots of forum members are talking about the great deals they found on Amazon Prime, where every purchase funds the development of robots and software that will replace humans. Are those forum members also part of "these people"?

* I am clearly one of "those people", using AI to write software for my free website which has no ad, no registraton and no affiliation with any company or organization. (hanging my head in shame for doing that)

Look, I don't know how many times I need to say it, but I don't disagree with most of your AI concerns. The difference is, I'm taking the time to understand it, and am just accepting that this is a huge wave I couldn't stop if I wanted to. And since it exists - and will continue to exist - I want to understand it and - yeah - use it for my own benefit.

"If you were King" what would you do? And if the answer is "I don't know" that's absolutely fine and totally honest. But like I've repeatedly said, just "open your eyes". That's something concrete that you can actually do. The way things are shaping up, you may need to *use* AI in order to *fight* AI.

It's like this huge tsunami is coming, but I've been studying weather patterns (or tectonics, or whatever, you know what I mean) and think it's a good time to move up to the mountains. Now, you can stand on the beach and yell at the waves - because it's totally unfair and wrong that a tsunami could destroy your village. But I like the view from the mountainside myself...

The US should consider restrictions too.

Let's take a few steps back...

How in the world did we get here?

We as people, have always tried to build a "better mousetrap."

That better mousetrap might make an existing product better or more efficient.

To that end, we built

• Abacus - A A manual computing device consisting of a frame holding parallel rods strung with movable counters.

• slide rules - so we could get quick mathematical approximations to get "nearly close enough" results using a mechanical assistance device.

• adding machines - for quick evaluations of math problems

• computers - to perform repetitive tasks.

All of these were created to create that "better mousetrap." (yeah, I know we learned how to tame animals to plow crops and use them for transportation, and all that but let’s jump ahead a bit)

Then we wanted to "automate" certain kinds of things rather than having to perform those actions manually each time. Over time our automation has become quite sophisticated.

So we created programs to calculate things based on specific events… sales tax when items are purchased, MPG for cars, delivery of specific amounts of products into containers and the list goes on… these are simply various forms of automation.

Then we created word processors, and along the way someone decided it might be nice if there was a way to “automagically” help identify and resolve spelling errors. (yes folks, this might be considered as one of the first Language Models use by programs. It didn’t understand what you were writing, it just found misspellings and offered alternatives.)

Then all the other tools were added to word processors.

Along the way our automation kept improving. We could reduce the number of people required to perform certain kinds of tasks, again building new or improving on our mousetraps through the use/abuse of automation.

Each time automation was performed it was based on specific sets of input criteria. And our automation has become successively more complex (much like the infant growing up learning how to communicate using complex, cohesive and complete sentences [ not that I do that very well sometimes].)

Now comes along this thing we call “AI.” In the final analysis (at least juncture in time) it’s little more than an overgrown automation program because it can’t do anything on its own accord without prompting.

It’s based on providing specific results based upon specific queries or requests. But on its own, it’s just a bunch of program modules and language models collecting dust…. until it receives a query or request to perform an action.

In reality, “AI” is little more than a whole bunch of little modules that are designed to perform a “kind of function” and these modules are invoked from and by other modules or themselves recursively.

The downside of automation and “AI” is frequently found where working individuals are replaced because of automation or “AI.”

When a company implements automation/ “AI” to replace a worker, the company might get a capital expenditure tax break. What doesn’t’ happen is the device replacing the human (at least here in the U.S.) doesn’t contribute proportionate monies to Social Security, Medicare and other social programs humans provide. Nor do the automation / “AI” devices receive wage increases which in turn contribute again to the Social Systems people have relied upon.

I’ve believed for many years, any time a device (real or programmatic) replaces the job of a human, that device should be providing equivalence in Social Services that the human would have provided. Additionally, each year the device replaces the human, a based wage increase should be applied such that the Social Services donations are increased as well.

While I discuss an automation/ “AI” device replacing a real human it may replace many humans. That being said, the Social Service contribution of the automation/ “AI” device should provide the same equivalence for as many humans it replaces.

Fortunately, our glorified automation we call “AI” has no real means to, without prompting, create things. It has no means for that illustrious “AH-HA” moment we all experience when the light comes on.

Thus far, “AI” has no real “rights” to exist like humans. I’m thinking of HAL in “2001 A SPACE ODYSSEY”

If and when that day comes, I sincerely doubt there’s a mountain high enough to escape the tsunami that will sweep mankind.

(As a side note, we all know that the computer’s name HAL is based on IBM …
“H” is one letter before I
“A” is one letter before B
“L” is one letter before M

Coincidence? I dunno…

And if you’ve not seen “Bicentennial Man” you might find it interesting, humorous and perhaps enlightening

I'm glad to see someone else thinking analytically about this instead of just saying "Hey AI: get off my lawn!"

The HAL aspect is something I've thought about a lot, and taking a break from writing code, I even discussed it with Gemini last week, that was really fascinating, LOL. When you spend some time working on a project with AI, you just can't help but think of 2001, the experience feels so similar. It was like Clarke and Kubrick actually "saw the future". Or did they? Another way of looking at SciFi is as a "blueprint for the future" instead of a "prediction".

The people who are building AI today were inspired by movies like 2001, and look what we got. But I'd say AI is considerably more powerful than HAL already. Hal speaks so slowly and with such determination. I can ask Gemini about some aspect of code, and it will spit out 4 pages of results loaded with historical facts, a philosophical discussion of the thing, a hundred lines of (very good) code and a partridge in a pear tree. This takes about two seconds. Definitely not the "HAL experience". It happens so fast, it makes my head spin and will probably take me a half hour just to understand it all.

And Google/Gemini knows basically everything. Yeah we can quibble about that, but Google knows what's on the internet better than anyone else. What do you think they're storing in those big data centers? Meanwhile, HAL is a computer on a spaceship. I don't see any suggestion in 2001 that he is supposed to have that level of knowledge about the whole world, but he (supposedly) knows everything about running the spaceship and making the mission succeed, plus fun stuff like playing chess and commenting on sketches of the crew. If HAL did have better knowledge of the world, maybe he would have known better than to kill the humans because he thought they were jeopardizing the mission.

I think the Star Trek "computer" is more like AI. "Computer" *is* supposed to know everything about the entire known universe. And it's nothing but cold, scientific, matter of fact logic. Funny thing about 2001, the people are all pretty boring and lacking in emotion. HAL seems more "human" than any of them in that respect.

And yes, who hasn't heard of the HAL is IBM theory? There's a really interesting interview with Clarke in a documentary about 2001 and the whole thing is complicated, how he and Kubrick developed this complex script that actually explains everything. Kubrick basically threw out all the dialog and went for a "mystical" approach, which Clarke was very upset about initially, to see all of that work get thrown away. IMO, Kubrick was right and that's what makes 2001 so brilliant. I wouldn't want to count how many times I've watched that and it still looks fresh and new - and just as weird as ever (and as boring as ever, at times).

But Clarke directly responded to the "IBM theory" in that interview and pushed back hard, saying he absolutely had no intention of associating HAL with IBM, and it actually meant "Heuristic Algorithmic Logic"... or something like that. Of course, that pushback will only reinforce the conspiracy theory, LOL. And that's another great thing about the whole mystery surrounding the movie IMO.

About taxing AI when it replaces humans, I'm totally open to that, but it seems like a classic "slippery slope". Shall we also pay reparations to all the descendants of blacksmiths and stable owners for the work they lost from the automobile? How about all the typists that lost their jobs to word processors and computers, which many executives now use to write their own e-mails. A secretary would have taken notes in shorthand, then typed them up in the past. Some of those secretaries learned how to use computers and survived that transition, others didn't.

One of the big AI CEO's (Altman? Don't remember..) actually said he's in favor of eliminating taxes completely on humans (or maybe it was humans who make less than $1 million, or something) and in favor of taxing companies that use AI. Interesting concept, works me.... but "good luck with that".

Anyway, happy to see somebody else actually thinking about these things. It doesn't matter whether anybody agrees with you.... or me. My only point is: you'd better start trying to understand it, then form your own opinion.

I'm also shaking my fist as well as wondering what my sister and a couple of friends will be doing for employment after getting directly replaced by AI.

..But will shaking your fist help them find a new job? About two months ago, my daughter lost her job when the huge conglomerate that owned the big advertising agency she worked for shut down their whole NY office and laid everyone off. And to add insult to injury, they used some loophole to get out of paying her the full amount of severance she clearly deserved. Her friends said she should sue them as it was pretty clear, apparently. But she figured that wouldn't help her career much in the end. I actually have no idea if AI was involved with any of this, or just the usual corporate sleaze.

While she was updating her resume and pouring through listings on LinkedIn, out of the blue she got a call from another company that offered her a new job at a better salary than before, and she didn't even get the month off she was hoping for, they wanted her to start right away. This was simply the result of contacts she made and the other company needing somebody just like her.

That's pretty much what I'm saying. I could have shaken my fist all I wanted at the scumbag huge corporation. But it was her own resourcefulness and the reputation she developed over the years that saved her. I'm SO proud of her. I won't be there forever to help her, but she is proving she can make her own way in this cruel world.

Hoping that your sister also finds something good in the end.

Haven't people learned yet if the kids want something they will find a way around it.

It doesn;t mean the kids are right, of course, but they *are* the future and it's pretty much a given they will always push the boundaries of parental control. Of course, we need to guide them in the right direction and make decisions today that will give them a better future though.

And this is just a general comment - not something specifically about posts here, although it's related. When I see older people complaining about "these kids today" I always wonder if they remember their own childhood and things they might have done which their parents didn't like. I sure do, graduating from High School in 1967 and college in 1971. I loved my parents, but had real problems with some of their views. But they were always supportive of me finding my own way (as long it wasn't against the law, or whatever). I feel lucky to have been raised like that. But I clearly remember the frustration with older people who just "didn't get it", according to my 1970 world view.

We used to say "never trust anyone over 30", which is hilarious to think of today. I was watching an old documentary from Bob Dylan's early years in the 60's and they asked him something about what he wanted to be in the future and his answer was like "Not old" then went on to say how much he hated everyone over 30 (he was like, 21 at the time, maybe).

For me, it's useful to step back for a minute and remember his lyric about "don't criticize what you can't understand" and "your old road is rapidly aging, please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand". There's good reason to doubt the sincerity of any of his early "protest songs", but that doesn't matter to me, they can stand on their own.

And the other one I often remember is the Crosby, Stills and Nash "teach your children well". The only point being... understanding the next generation is at least as important as criticizing or tryiing to change it. And it's just a fact of life, whether we like it or not, they will still be here long after we're gone, and most likely, we'll depend on them to take care of us in our final days.

(enough deep thoughts for today, LOL )

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/ford-rehires-experien...

smart move!

Look at the quote from that article:

"Artificial intelligence is a fantastic tool, but it's only as good as the information you use to train it," Charles Poon, Ford's vice president of vehicle hardware engineering, said ..."

Translation: we brought the engineers back long enough to train the AI. Yeah, I'm cynical...

bad case of the hiccups

Press post and I go away. I come back and its still sitting there.. not posted, I post again, go away, come back not posted.. that'll teach me..
Not!