saw a method of beating a RLC

 

Yesterday I was proceeding up to a RLC intersection on my commute. I know from feel whether I can make it or not, based upon where I come to a complete stop when the light turns red.

I would have never thought of this, and I saw it in action yesterday.

A wrecker who knew there was no way he could make his left turn while the green arrow or yellow were lit, i.e. before red, simply drove onto the other side of the double yellow, and proceeded well after the light had already turned red. The way was clear of vehicles because of the green arrow that was previously lit. I saw no flash whatsoever.

It would seem that the powers that be never thought of equipping the entire roadway with the inductive wiring, or, perhaps they're willing to let that go due to cost.

Until things are tightened down, imho people who drive for a living will always beat the authorities. The youtube with the FLA troopers was a good example. Beating weigh scales have been sung in Little Feat tunes since 1971.

Driving

I have a much better system ! I just drive to be aware of the surroundings and leave time to stop at a traffic light. Too many people hammer the accelerator pedal when they know they should stop !!!

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Hmm should I try this?

Hmm should I try this? Doesn't sound too safe. Surprised it didn't activate the flash.

and the flash didn't

ceevee wrote:

Surprised it didn't activate the flash.

I agree, doesn't sound to safe to me either.

As for not being flashed! The camera systems are set up for a specific range.

If the flash had gone off, it would flash all the oncoming traffic on the other side of the road.

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

I have a better way

Get rid of the Politicos who got bought and saddled us with the RLC's. We got rid of them in Pima County and Tucson was forced to follow suit!

Several possible charges

If a cop was present, or if the camera happened to flash due to another driver, I expect several possible charges.

Failure to drive in a marked lane, running red light, careless driving, just to name a few.

Best idea is to not endanger innocent drivers, with a head on collision, or a T-bone or a combination of both. Then you could have careless or dangerous driving causing injury or death.

--
NUVI2555LMT, NUVI350

Flash ???

ceevee wrote:

Hmm should I try this? Doesn't sound too safe. Surprised it didn't activate the flash.

A lot of RLC's do not use a "FLASH" per se, they use infrared which you cannot see !!!
How Do Red Light Cameras Work?

A red light camera system is connected to the traffic signal and to sensors buried in the pavement at the crosswalk or stop line. Traffic engineers determine the criteria that will trigger the camera to photograph a vehicle. Red light cameras usually only photograph the license tag of the vehicle, but they also can photograph the driver. Typically, two photographs are taken, one when the vehicle crosses the stop line and a second when the vehicle is in the intersection. The photographs also include the date, time and place, vehicle speed, and elapsed time from the light turning red to the time the photograph was taken.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Maybe beat it by just

Maybe beat it by just stopping. These devices are only profitable (and thus remain installed) when drivers are running these lights. Remember, this is revenue driven only, those that say they are for safety are lying or misinformed. Stop running the lights, revenue drys up and the cameras go.

While I despise RLC driving unsafe isn't the answer

to them. As has been said just because you didn't see the flash doesn't mean they video was being taken of the driver in question.

This is a bad intersection

Friday some woman in a junk minivan was tailgating me, and she pulled a pass people waiting to turn left and cut them all off and go from the middle. At the next light which was the same rlc, a dude in a F350 raced up the right and quickly turned left. I did not let him get in front of me (I don't want a ticket for any reason). With everything going on in the news lately, I think it's justified not having cops in these areas. It's not worth their safety. If rlcs can't stop this behavior, let it go. It's been going on for longer than anyone on this forum has been living.

Huh?

Melaqueman wrote:
ceevee wrote:

Hmm should I try this? Doesn't sound too safe. Surprised it didn't activate the flash.

A lot of RLC's do not use a "FLASH" per se, they use infrared which you cannot see !!!
How Do Red Light Cameras Work?

A red light camera system is connected to the traffic signal and to sensors buried in the pavement at the crosswalk or stop line. Traffic engineers determine the criteria that will trigger the camera to photograph a vehicle. Red light cameras usually only photograph the license tag of the vehicle, but they also can photograph the driver. Typically, two photographs are taken, one when the vehicle crosses the stop line and a second when the vehicle is in the intersection. The photographs also include the date, time and place, vehicle speed, and elapsed time from the light turning red to the time the photograph was taken.

The intersection I am describing flashes all the time. It's white, and people can see it.

How Red Light Cameras work in Nassau county NY

The red light cameras in Nassau County New York are operated by American Traffic Solutions (ATS) and work a lot like Melaqueman says.

There is a speed sensor on a pole and two sensor loops under the road, just before the stop line in each lane. The loops sense where the car is just before the signal changes to red.

If there might be a violation based on the position and speed of the car, the time is flagged in the full-motion video of the camera, for inspection later by an ATS employee in Arizona. Then the flash operates only if needed. Each camera is online 24/7 and the video is stored on a server.

However, if the lighting is good, the flash does not operate. The equipment senses when the flash is needed. For example, on a sunny day it is not needed until the sun is lighting the front of the car since the back would be in shadow.

If the flash operates it does not necessarily mean a summons will be issued, and if the flash does not operate a summons can still be issued. It all depends on the judgement of the employee watching the video which includes a view of the car and the traffic signal, as well as the time that the car went over the sensor loops.

Thus, a flash does not mean a summons was issued, and no flash does not mean you got away without a summons.

The RLC YouTube videos are all low-res. However, the quality of the camera records high resolution video, probably 1080p. With the summons, they send a still picture of your car passing the red light and a clear and sharp full-frame of the plate alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XoTvbqsT68

dobs108 smile

Hmmmm...

johnnatash4 wrote:

Friday some woman in a junk minivan was tailgating me, and she pulled a pass people waiting to turn left and cut them all off and go from the middle. At the next light which was the same rlc, a dude in a F350 raced up the right and quickly turned left. I did not let him get in front of me (I don't want a ticket for any reason). With everything going on in the news lately, I think it's justified not having cops in these areas. It's not worth their safety. If rlcs can't stop this behavior, let it go. It's been going on for longer than anyone on this forum has been living.

Overall your description of your actions make me think it was an immature and unsafe reaction.

Who cares if the guy in a truck gets ahead of you.

Is it worth risking being involved in a crash where your vehicle is damaged and perhaps put out of operational condition or worse seriously hurting yourself or others?

Do me a favor, share where you tend to drive so I can deliberately avoid those areas!

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

It seems to me that driving

It seems to me that driving on the wrong side of the road is extremely unsafe. The accidents always occur with that car you didn't see. In this case it would be a head on collision.

johnnatash4 post

Some of you must be able to understand this posting.
As for myself, I can not understand the sentence structure and or wording of whatever is written in the post.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Good stuff!

Good stuff!

I dunno why but I thought you were a

BarneyBadass wrote:
johnnatash4 wrote:

Friday some woman in a junk minivan was tailgating me, and she pulled a pass people waiting to turn left and cut them all off and go from the middle. At the next light which was the same rlc, a dude in a F350 raced up the right and quickly turned left. I did not let him get in front of me (I don't want a ticket for any reason). With everything going on in the news lately, I think it's justified not having cops in these areas. It's not worth their safety. If rlcs can't stop this behavior, let it go. It's been going on for longer than anyone on this forum has been living.

Overall your description of your actions make me think it was an immature and unsafe reaction.

Who cares if the guy in a truck gets ahead of you.

Is it worth risking being involved in a crash where your vehicle is damaged and perhaps put out of operational condition or worse seriously hurting yourself or others?

Do me a favor, share where you tend to drive so I can deliberately avoid those areas!

New Yorker

The car I drive is provided by a car mfg so there are no financial consequences to a total wreck. If it happened, I would need a ride home, yes, but the next day, I just get another car. But at the same time, if I get a rlc ticket, I would have to pay it, not the car mfg., so there would be financial consequences.

Yes, it is a highly questionable area that I pass through on my commute--it did dawn on me finally, with all the goings on over the last two weeks, that in these areas, it does not pay to have cops patrolling and jeopardizing their safety for the sake of traffic tix. Let the cams do their job--if people beat them, let them go. /they are beating them day in, day out.

One particular intersection that I pass through did have a cop murdered, but I could never figure from the news which corner it was.

Do I have to pass through this way? No, I could go the 1%'er way (not really one could say the safe way) and avoid all this, but I do save 10-15 min. when traffic is backed up.

I'm a kid who loved to drive to Hunts Point and watch all the activity at night, in the early 90's. So I suppose I was never phased...

Except...

johnnatash4 wrote:

The car I drive is provided by a car mfg so there are no financial consequences to a total wreck. If it happened, I would need a ride home, yes, but the next day, I just get another car. But at the same time, if I get a rlc ticket, I would have to pay it, not the car mfg., so there would be financial consequences.

That's assuming you don't kill yourself or someone else...

--
The Moose Is Loose! nuvi 760

It So Sad That Its Come To This

Moose135 wrote:
johnnatash4 wrote:

?

That's assuming you don't kill yourself or someone else...

Moose.....

O'l Buddy...
O'l Pal..

My parents taught me as a child there was no reasoning with a <_Fill in your description of preference here_>...

I'll let your functioning mind extroplate the final conclusion to a mindless conversation...

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

yes

When I was 19, I did drive 155 in a 55, and paid the price. That was reckless and just the fact that at that age I was invincible.

I have never had an accident since. I would consider myself middle-aged.

I take notice there are always the same people who play devil's advocate here (on this forum), whether the topic is driving, or Windows 10. I often wonder if there is a reason why there's no ignore or block feature (can it be added?).

Do you folks (rhetorically) actually let people treat you like a human rug, in real life? Meaning, if you waited for something for 5 min., or 20 min., you would really let someone barge in, in front of you? C'mon now, you've got to be as mean and tough in real life, as you are on the forum.

This thread, by the way, started out by me stating I saw a flatbed beat a RLC, and that I would never have thought of it. Suddenly, I'm the one who does it. LOL

good thing I didn't mention the mfg. of the car as I was tempted, that would open up some more comments 1%'er etc

Beating the camera

Everybody looks for a way to beat the RLCs. So far none have worked.
It can get very expensive to try these when you get the ticket.
Wouldn't it be easier (and cheaper) to just stop at the red lights?
I took a driving course for truck drivers a long time ago, one of the examples they used was, two identical cars, driving the same trip,
the drivers were given a complete physical before the trip.
One driver was told to get there as fast as he could, the other driver was told to obey all the traffic rules. The trip was 200 miles.
After the trip was over, they found the first driver used his brakes 5 times more than the second driver, his gas consumption was a lot higher. and after another physical, his blood pressure was a lot higher.
The time difference in the two trips was only 25 min.
Was it worth it to take the chance for tickets or a accident for
25 min?
Sorry for venting but I always wonder why so many people waste more time looking for ways to beat the system.

--
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things!

definitely

Timantide wrote:

Everybody looks for a way to beat the RLCs. So far none have worked.
It can get very expensive to try these when you get the ticket.
Wouldn't it be easier (and cheaper) to just stop at the red lights?
I took a driving course for truck drivers a long time ago, one of the examples they used was, two identical cars, driving the same trip,
the drivers were given a complete physical before the trip.
One driver was told to get there as fast as he could, the other driver was told to obey all the traffic rules. The trip was 200 miles.
After the trip was over, they found the first driver used his brakes 5 times more than the second driver, his gas consumption was a lot higher. and after another physical, his blood pressure was a lot higher.
The time difference in the two trips was only 25 min.
Was it worth it to take the chance for tickets or a accident for
25 min?
Sorry for venting but I always wonder why so many people waste more time looking for ways to beat the system.

I agree, wouldn't it be easier to stop? And obviously, stopping for red lights makes sense. There really isn't any argument for running lights, except I suppose people become frustrated when the lights are not synchronized. If I'm not mistaken NYC began that in the 1940's, so it's truly beyond me how it's not done across the board.

Personally, I would never have thought of crossing the double-yellow, to beat the RLC. I'm sure the flatbed does it day in, day out. I also see people going up the middle, and then turning left, so as to not wait their turn, in line, day in, day out.

What did dawn on me is it's not worth the safety of a LEO to issue summonses in this location, and many. So again, if behaviour modification can't be accomplished with the RLC, which is the case based on my observation at this intersection, then let it go.

In a sense, it's like a LEO with a Camaro trying to catch a bike, it's dangerous for everyone. Let the biker go.

I just find it hilarious that by mentioning what I observe, that suddenly I am reckless--c'mon let's get the ignore feature or block feature working here.

I would say nobody here wants a ticket. Not only should everyone not run the light, to avoid a ticket, they should get a feel on when they should brake or proceed, on yellow. Anybody who cannot do that should have their license revoked.

Just today

A short aside. On my way to work this morning, I witnessed a major accident. SUV going west ran a stale red light. The driver in the VW going east decided to run that same red light. Usually not a problem, but the SUV thought he could beat the VW, and made a very late left in front of the even later VW. The SUV driver wasn't wearing his seat belt. He was found unconscious in the passenger seat with a cut to his head. Both cars were toast, air bags deployed, fluids all over the road... Would a RLC have prevented this? Probably, but there more than likely would have been two read end collisions instead... Although I saw the entire thing unfold in slow motion, I couldn't see what the two [idiot] driver's were doing when they should have been paying attention. I was too busy repeating in my head "Is this really going to happen???" I picked the wrong day to leave my dash cam at home.

--
Striving to make the NYC Metro area project the best.

Defensive Driving

johnnatash4 wrote:
Timantide wrote:

I would say nobody here wants a ticket. Not only should everyone not run the light, to avoid a ticket, they should get a feel on when they should brake or proceed, on yellow. Anybody who cannot do that should have their license revoked.

A defensive driver not only has a healthy level of paranoia about other drivers, they anticipate situations that could cause them harm.

That anticipation involves watching ahead for things like a a mini-mall with a Tim Horton's that will mean people turning left into the mall. Make a point of moving safely to the right lane, before the mall, to allow you to smoothly get past the line of stopped cars.

It also means watching for the pedestrian light and if it goes to a warning mode to for the pedestrian, then consider if you if you will hit the subsequent amber for the driver under a safe condition, without accelerating. If the pedestrian countdown timer or the duration of the pedestrian warning suggests that I will hit the stop line late into an amber or red, I slow down to ensure that the guy behind me that plans to run the light knows that I plan to stop.

Why the rush? The odds are good that you will catch up to the red light runner after one or two additional red lights.

--
NUVI2555LMT, NUVI350

when

when you venture into the some areas, the above is totally a normal occurrence. At least 3/5 days per week, I'm the guy in the VW (although I would never buy a VW/Audi although I like their products, they just haven't handled the Takata thing honorably and dieselgate).

I would say 1/10 times someone from the middle lane shoots up and ultimately cuts somebody off who was legitimately in line for the left arrow. So in this case, the rlc doesn't prevent that person in the SUV. There's always going to be the small % who defies the law plus technology.

So technology either has to cover that small %, or let it go. My hunch is it's let go due to cost, and that's fine.

if

GPSgeek wrote:
johnnatash4 wrote:
Timantide wrote:

I would say nobody here wants a ticket. Not only should everyone not run the light, to avoid a ticket, they should get a feel on when they should brake or proceed, on yellow. Anybody who cannot do that should have their license revoked.

A defensive driver not only has a healthy level of paranoia about other drivers, they anticipate situations that could cause them harm.

That anticipation involves watching ahead for things like a a mini-mall with a Tim Horton's that will mean people turning left into the mall. Make a point of moving safely to the right lane, before the mall, to allow you to smoothly get past the line of stopped cars.

It also means watching for the pedestrian light and if it goes to a warning mode to for the pedestrian, then consider if you if you will hit the subsequent amber for the driver under a safe condition, without accelerating. If the pedestrian countdown timer or the duration of the pedestrian warning suggests that I will hit the stop line late into an amber or red, I slow down to ensure that the guy behind me that plans to run the light knows that I plan to stop.

Why the rush? The odds are good that you will catch up to the red light runner after one or two additional red lights.

If you're in Ontario, the fact of the matter is for the most people, society follows the rules. The same in California. It doesn't make people nicer, or more do-good, it's just the way that society behaves. In Los Angeles, nobody attempts to turn left across ongoing traffic as soon as the light turns green. On the east cost, it's all the time. Possibly over the years enforcement and heavy fines changed behavior. I'm not going to get a $640 red light violation in CA, I'm going to be in control of my behavior even more so than I would in DC.

Nothing in this link is earth shattering, but on the East coast, practically none of these requirements are followed. It makes me wonder if people even know how to curb their car? SF will go so far as to ticket for not curbing properly (example, turning the wheels as if there is a curb, when there is not--I bet 70% of people driving in NYC don't even know what to do).

https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/parking/how-park-legall...

Breaking The Law Might Just Save Your Life !!

"Johnnatash4" said in part...

johnnatash4 wrote:

"There really isn't any argument for running lights..."

Really..!..?

Years ago I was stopped at a red light, with my daughter in the passengers seat. As I often do, I watch my rear view mirror as the traffic behind me approaches my stopped vehicle. In my lane coming toward me was a large 10 wheeler dump truck. I saw the driver look down. I assumed he dropped something and was reaching around to get it.

At that point in time I knew that he would be unable to stop before rear ending me. Luckily I was first in line... and there was NO cross traffic in the intersection, so I blew the red light as I laid on my horn.

The truck driver slammed on his brakes and ended up stopped just past the cross walk. I guess, using your reasoning of "NO argument for running red lights" twisted rolleyes , I should have let him run over us, causing our small car to be completely demolished, thus having the gas tank catch on fire and explode letting both my daughter and I burn to death in the flaming inferno evil Right question

Next time before making such a closed thought statement, you might want to think about the following... "There are times when going against the law is the prudent thing to do".

Nuvi1300WTGPS

--
I'm not really lost.... just temporarily misplaced!

Red Light

Nuvi1300WTGPS wrote:

"Johnnatash4" said in part...

johnnatash4 wrote:

"There really isn't any argument for running lights..."

Really..!..?
Years ago I was stopped at a red light, with my daughter in the passengers seat. As I often do, I watch my rear view mirror as the traffic behind me approaches my stopped vehicle. In my lane coming toward me was a large 10 wheeler dump truck. I saw the driver look down. I assumed he dropped something and was reaching around to get it.
At that point in time I knew that he would be unable to stop before rear ending me. Luckily I was first in line... and there was NO cross traffic in the intersection, so I blew the red light as I laid on my horn.
The truck driver slammed on his brakes and ended up stopped just past the cross walk. I guess, using your reasoning of "NO argument for running red lights" twisted rolleyes , I should have let him run over us, causing our small car to be completely demolished, thus having the gas tank catch on fire and explode letting both my daughter and I burn to death in the flaming inferno evil Right question
Next time before making such a closed thought statement, you might want to think about the following... "There are times when going against the law is the prudent thing to do".
Nuvi1300WTGPS

In defense of
johnnatash4 wrote:
"There really isn't any argument for running lights..."

I do not think there is any insinuation that to avoid an imminent collision that it might be prudent to go through if it can also be done safely.

Running a RED light is USUALLY associated with just barreling through the light and the intersection!

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

.

dobs108 wrote:

The red light cameras in Nassau County New York are operated by American Traffic Solutions (ATS) and work a lot like Melaqueman says.

There is a speed sensor on a pole and two sensor loops under the road, just before the stop line in each lane. The loops sense where the car is just before the signal changes to red.

If there might be a violation based on the position and speed of the car, the time is flagged in the full-motion video of the camera, for inspection later by an ATS employee in Arizona. Then the flash operates only if needed. Each camera is online 24/7 and the video is stored on a server.

However, if the lighting is good, the flash does not operate. The equipment senses when the flash is needed. For example, on a sunny day it is not needed until the sun is lighting the front of the car since the back would be in shadow.

If the flash operates it does not necessarily mean a summons will be issued, and if the flash does not operate a summons can still be issued. It all depends on the judgement of the employee watching the video which includes a view of the car and the traffic signal, as well as the time that the car went over the sensor loops.

Thus, a flash does not mean a summons was issued, and no flash does not mean you got away without a summons.

The RLC YouTube videos are all low-res. However, the quality of the camera records high resolution video, probably 1080p. With the summons, they send a still picture of your car passing the red light and a clear and sharp full-frame of the plate alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XoTvbqsT68

dobs108 smile

And a link to the video showing the violation, just before and just after.

..

camerabob wrote:

A short aside. On my way to work this morning, I witnessed a major accident. SUV going west ran a stale red light. The driver in the VW going east decided to run that same red light. Usually not a problem, but the SUV thought he could beat the VW, and made a very late left in front of the even later VW. The SUV driver wasn't wearing his seat belt. He was found unconscious in the passenger seat with a cut to his head. Both cars were toast, air bags deployed, fluids all over the road... Would a RLC have prevented this? Probably, but there more than likely would have been two read end collisions instead... Although I saw the entire thing unfold in slow motion, I couldn't see what the two [idiot] driver's were doing when they should have been paying attention. I was too busy repeating in my head "Is this really going to happen???" I picked the wrong day to leave my dash cam at home.

How can a Red Light Camera prevent an accident? At best, it can document what happened to make it easier for insurance to assign blame.

If merely having cameras prevented accidents, then nobody would ever get a RLC "ticket."

 

Timantide wrote:

Everybody looks for a way to beat the RLCs. So far none have worked.

Wearing a bag over the driver's head in California has worked fine. No photo of the driver=no ticket.

Brilliant,

Timantide wrote:

Wearing a bag over the driver's head in California has worked fine. No photo of the driver=no ticket.

Hopefully it's a small opaque, plastic bag that's security taped around their neck! razz

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

so often that ...

johnnatash4 wrote:

nobody attempts to turn left across ongoing traffic as soon as the light turns green. On the east cost, it's all the time.

It happens so often here they post "WAIT FOR GREEN" signs here in PA when the opposing traffic gets the green before you would.

The problem is there is just so many vehicles on the road and no one will cut you a break, most intersections do not have a left arrow opportunity. You either have to jump the green or run the yellow/red to make the turn.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

easy way is to just stop

easy way is to just stop

--
nuvi 2597LMT

Mmmmm... Errrrrr.... Uhhhhhh....

ewayne1941 wrote:

easy way is to just stop

You're kidding right?

What's the fun in that? razz

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!