Icon size

It's not so much the size of the display as it is the pixels offered by the screen. Yes, the icons offered here are designed to work best with the older nuvis and when offered on a device like the nuvi 3597, they are tiny. I finally got around to changing the size of my icons to make them display well on the 3597. Some icons didn't 'grow' well so I manually tinkered or even totally changed them.

The old and some of the less expensive new nuvis' screens are 480x272 pixels while the newer more expensive nuvis have a denser 800x480 display. Many of the offered icons' offered at The POI Factory have a largest dimension of 24 pixels and they work fine on the 480x272 displays. On my 3597 I modified, edited or created icons with a max dimension of 36 pixels but I'm sure I've read here that some folks prefer icons as large as 48 pixels or as small as 32 pixels so it may not be an easy task to agree on what size to offer for larger icons here.

It would be useful if icon creators here at The Factory consider offering 2-3 sizes for each icon they create. In the meantime, it's not that hard using a PC's Paint program to resize and edit icons and it'd something you could try. A major effort of someone or even a group of people here to resize all the icons available here may be a challenge because of the effort required.

Another issue: for folks with more than one GPS, if the pixel display is different between their owned models, they will need to create two separate POI folders on their computer and have POI Loader switch folders when installing custom POIs on both devices, one folder with small icons and one with larger icons.

Yes, I do use separate folders, due to Icons and audio prompts...
As long as I remember to select correct folder (Grin) when I load POI's...

Interesting topic, and one I hadn't thought of before. I've just ordered an RV660 (not in yet) and I'm still using my 765T, so I'll play around and see what the differences are!

If it's really just a matter of resizing icons though, I know there is open-source or free graphic software out there (like Irfanview for Windows) that can resize in batches so the task isn't quite so miserable. Irfanview batch mode is pretty powerful and I've used it on batches of hundreds of files.

Currently most of the bmp file (Most of mine) are

22x22 8bit or/and
24x24 24bit

What are the formats that GPS system use? Maybe if I get some time, I can try to convert or make new ones to use.

Just some information for me is needed to start this..

I created a 48 X 48 icon for the Bank of America POI file and it works great on my 3597. It's not as big as the factory installed icons, but it is very legible on the screen.

The icon can be downloaded from the BoA POI page, if anyone wishes to see the display size. Just rename it to your POI file's name and load it in as a test.

I did successfully increase size of RLC Traffic Light.... If you want I will upload it if you point me how and where to do so...
I was totally un-successful with Rest Areas and Cracker Barrel, though... it just blurred to being unrecognizable..

Yes indeed, my experiences mirror yours.

What I did for the Rest Area icon was to resize it to my 36 pixel size, then by keeping the dark blue background, turned the entire icon into solid dark blue, and finally used Microsoft's Paint (part of Windows) to create text with white characters saying

Rest
Area

where I had to tinker a few times with the font size to get the maximum two-line text to fit.

Your Cracker Barrel result was like my Choice Hotels result. I once again created a new icon as I did for Rest Areas: keep the background color, remove the logo, and create a large CH in the same colors as the logo had been.

Our results show that it's not possible to simply resize all the icons available here at The Factory and have a useful result. Some current icons will resize well and others won't.

I think a lot easier way to create an icon is to use Google Images (images.google.com). I have a great looking Rest Area icon and all I did was search for Rest Areas in Google Images and resize the image I downloaded from there (48x48). There is a really good image in the 5th row if you want to give it a try.

The same process has worked great for me for a lot of my POI bitmap images. Also turning the background of images transparent helps on some icons as well. That can easily be done in Paint which is also a good place to change the colour depth to 256 which is pretty much a requirement on newer Nuvi's, particularly the 3597.

Are we limited to 48 x 48 pixels for the 3597 and other hi-res units?

dobs108

You're certainly not limited to 48x48. I don't know how large you can go but for me, 48 pixels is too big and covers too much of the map. I found for my 3597 that 36 pixels suits me best.

I have found that 44x44 works best for most of my icons.

Here are the Rest Area and Cracker Barrel ones I use. Both taken from Google Images:

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad75/t923347/cb_3.png

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad75/t923347/Rest%20Areas...

This is what a variety of my icons look like on the 3597:

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad75/t923347/Icons.png

The MacDonalds and Pizza Hut icons have transparent backgrounds. The Chase Bank icon is the one included in the Nuvi's map data.

If anything stands out to me in this discussion, it's 3 things:

1) We're challenged by the age old problem of upscaling raster (aka bitmapped) images, where any given application is tasked with interpolating what new bits should fit between the existing bits of data (pixels). The greater the change, the worse things become.

2) Post-conversion editing is probably unavoidable and regardless how it's divided, represents a large undertaking to do in quantity.

3) This thread is still young and already has participants looking for 3-4 (maybe more) different, larger size icons.

What if instead of creating a handful of different sized bitmapped icons, the same effort was used to convert the original icons to vector based images, which scale up or down without losing detail? With a vector-based "master copy", it's relatively simple to produce an icon at whatever dimension desired and export a jpeg or other bitmapped copy that anyone's GPS can handle.

Probably a Wish List item, an even better alternative would be for Garmin to natively support vector based files (.svg format) and allow each user to pick their own icon display dimensions in their GPS system preferences as well as in Basecamp.

I'm also a long time Irfanview user and fan, often relying on its batch mode processing (almost entirely for downsizing, though). With all its add-ins and native functionality, I haven't checked yet but Irfanview would be the first tool I'd check out for going from vector to raster if supplied with a vector based original.

As for the current issue of converting raster to vector, there may be other applications (or web sites) with the capability, but Inkscape is an opensource product for Windows platforms with such conversions among its feature set, and a notable learning curve of its own, but might offer the means to get there from what we have available today.

Some of us are reasonably proficient with Paint and a few have skills with Photoshop, but many must rely on downloading an existing image file as is and then rename and copy it to the POI folder to integrate with the others at POI Loader time. As JanJ had commented, upscaling a small image is often less than desirable. Maybe those of us who submit icons here can create a larger version than those that have been posted in the past and possibly submit a kid brother along with it. They could be named as "Icon-48" and "Icon-24" so those who want icons would have a choice.

What is going on is that It is easy to downgrade the image (and depending on the format too)

So, it might be a great idea to start with a 48 x 48 24bit and let anyone scale it down as so NOT to lose much of the image quality.

Another Option is to create these images as PNG file, when resizing or re sampling the image, you don't loss as much of the image. However, PNG files can be very picky if not done right. And Yes Irfan can use that format.

...matters even more.

Much of what I write at The Factory is to help Garmin owners with their GPS devices including how to use POI Loader for the new folks here.

Simple POI Loader instructions tend to be understood by the new folks most of the time very quickly. Instructions tend to take much more effort and back-and-forth when discussing the addition of wav audio alerts or the use of TourGuides.

As thing stand now, the addition of custom POI icons is generally understood by folks very quickly. I hope we don't start complicating the addition of custom icons by oftentimes requiring icon editing and modifications to the icons before they can be used. It may be easier to stick with icons that will work on all Garmin devices and when folks with the newer devices with dense pixel displays ask about the tiny size of the icons, to offer the suggestions as made earlier in this thread to enlarge the icons.

I agree. In my opinion, when helping a new poster, we should keep it as simple as possible. When he or she succeeds, confidence is gained, and they can progress.

Remember that posters here are only the tip of the iceberg. Hundreds of thousands could be reading these posts.

Many of the regular posters here have highly technical knowledge, and that is appreciated. This hobby can be as simple or as complicated as you like.

dobs108

Ok, what we should do then is anyone that is making a image should do it starting with a big size and then using the same software, Downgrade the image and rename it with the size at the end, Then it can get posted here so that users can pick the one they want. using 8bit (256 Color will let you keep a transparent background color with the 255,0,255)

example: Rest stops Icons in the sizes of:
48x48
34x34
24x24
16x16

Does this sound like everyone would be good with? If your building icons, it will be easy to just create all 3, put it in a package and upload here!

My understanding is that the older models GPS can handle up to 24x24 and newer models 48x48. As time goes by the older models will disappear as that has already started.Since there are many 24x24 icons already available on POI Factory.It seems that it would be a waste to spend time doing something already there. The 48x48 should be the priority. Who knows what the next generation may display.I have done appx 30 of the 48x48 for mostly the poi files I have. Labeled them XXXX 48X48.BMP .

What I have been doing is searching the web for a PNG icon for a certain POI I want the BMP file for. Then use this program to convert it http://www.iconj.com/pic_to_icon_converter.php . Been getting the 24 depth.Program does allow for some fine tuning.

Note.Older models will clip the 48x48 to a 24x24.Discussion here http://www.poi-factory.com/node/45748

I can remember discussions about loading an icon larger than 24 x 24 causing the nuvi to lock up on a proximity alert. We did not try doubling the size at that time. Also, firmware has been updated since then.

Can 48 x 48 be loaded into the 760?

dobs108

I use the same file system to load my files to the Nuvi 265 as to my 2597.No problems as to date.

See comment http://pages.citebite.com/e5t0u7s7l4xbc

Try the Arbys BMP.It is 48x48. http://www.poi-factory.com/node/10935

I typically start with a vector based icon to create icons for POIs. Many vector format logos are available on the web:
http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/
http://seeklogo.com/
Mark

I like the idea as a recommendation for folks creating new icons.

I don't know how many icons we have available here but it's a large enough number that I wouldn't put too high a priority on enlarging what's already here, especially with the size-up issue meaning many to most would need to be redone or have extensive editing to make them usable. If we have a saint or future COW here, don't let this stop you from starting the project.

You really only need to do the most popular ones. But to make this easy.If everyone would just do the icons they use and submit them that would make it easy for someone to pick up what may be left. A joint effort would be best.A lot of members most likely have some 48x48 bmp's they use now that are not posted.

Good idea. I just sent eight with text offering the size and whether the background was transparent.

How to send:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/3099

That will do it. I have sent in about 30 and all of them have not been posted yet.

Sent in a few hundred, but that was way back in its day... I have a program that will create almost anything, from making animated gifs to creating Desktop icons with muti-sizes built in for desktop resolution.

I am willing to do these files again if I can get which files people want and if they get a image, just send to me, no matter the size (Just be bigger that 48x48 so that I can resize down.)

If you send me the name of the POI file, I will try to locate a suitable photo to work with (Remember, it has to be public Domain for us to use).

Part of my job is working with Graphic and other publication so this will come easy to me and will do it on my free time.

OK sounds good. The ones I did was the files that I maintain plus the ones I downloaded from the site.All are 48x48. In the name of the bmp I included 48x48 in it.So members will know the size when they see the bmp file.

bobkz .What do you think about starting a new post and let members post what apps they would like to have? Keeping the size to 48x48 and possible 36x36?

Need to give members time to submit the BMPs 48X48 they have to POI Factory. Then to get organized.Members can post what they have submitted on the new thread.

Edit .Here are some BMP'S that I done and sent to POI Factory https://goo.gl/vIKkuq

As the discussion continues, as a reminder, be careful about how you describe where/how you got your original image for your icon.

I don't think we here have to really worry about that, but one never knows.

I will have to find that post and bring it back to life or just start a new one for requests for the BMP!

We have the attention of a lot of the in-the-know Garmin folks here discussing icons. In thinking there may be a FAQ needed with the results, I found that our Motorcycle Mama and (of course ) jgermann already have the FAQ and Beginner Education posts but they were created back in the old 24x24 pixel days for the older devices.

I've asked them to check this thread to possibly consider updating their FAQs:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/4359

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/30519

We could help them and the FAQs by offering some of our knowledge.

Questions needing answers that could help update FAQs:

-there is discussion about anything larger than 24x24 pixels offering a clipped image or may even freeze a nuvi on an old nuvi with a 480x272 display. I see that many of the very new Garmin Drive models also have a 480x272 display. Will they similarly clip or freeze large icons or is there a difference between the old 480x272 models and the new ones of the same size? Do we need to discuss this problem based on older vs newer devices or display size? (This may be a problem for us if we have no Garmin Drive owners here.)

-any advice on simple methods or software to resize or edit bmp icons could help.

-advice on preferred color depth, color to use for a transparent background, etc. would be useful.

-without checking Garmin and Google for confirmation, I've been assuming that Custom POI icons must be bmp files. Has this been confirmed or could other image formats be used with POI Loader and Garmin devices?

-anything else?

My suggestion is that as more icons for a given POI increase in offerings and sizes that it should be mentioned which icon size would generally considered to be best for a given Garmin GPS device, maybe based on display pixel dimension.

Look at what you've started, JanJ

May be wrong on this. The problem that I remember about some units freezing up was more to do with a software update and possible sound files. Some members with units that used mp3 files started using wav and sox.exe and corrected that problem. Discussion here

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/26849

It appears that bobkz has a good handle on what is needed and another member BobDee could offer a lot on this. I still have some of his icons he done in the past.

In this thread, many posters offered possible reasons why a nuvi would freeze up at a specific location. Software update and sound files were offered as the solution, but not so. This was previous to the days of sox.exe. All sound files were mp3s.

The solution, found by Curt Hinson, was that a proximity alert had been set up for a brand of gas stations. Every time that brand of gas station was approached, the nuvi froze.

Curt Hinson had loaded an icon for the gas station that was larger than 24 x 24, but not 48 x 48. When he removed the icon, the problem disappeared. The oversized icon caused the lockup.

Since then, software updates have been made and we no longer know whether the problem is still happening. Also, no one tested 48 x 48 icons at that time.

dobs108

I would love to test the icon lockup problem mentioned above. Various size icons could be loaded for proximity alerts and tested on my nuvi 3597 and nuvi 760 (which now runs on wav files for sound).

However, I cannot run these tests after recovering from foot surgery. For the next three weeks or more I will be on crutches and unable to drive! That is what I am doing on this forum now!

dobs108

Sox.exe was out back in 2008 I believe.Hornby discovered how to do it. GaryA was the first to post the sox.exe back in 2008 http://www.poi-factory.com/node/16728 . I do know the problem surfaced and disappear just about as fast..

Was hoping someone by now would load a 48x48 into a older model and report back. I don't remember a problem on my 265.Don't have it with me now but it does have the larger icons. Information on another forum says they clip out at 24x24 on older models.

This is the more specific thread where Curt Hinson found that the oversized icon had caused a lockup. It had nothing to do with sound files.

You must read through both of these threads. So many posters offered their opinion that a bad software update caused the problem or that it was caused by a sound file. Curt Hinson proved that the oversized icon had caused the nuvi 750 to lock up on a proximity alert. Alandb first noticed that the icon was 26 pixels in one dimension.

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/28569

dobs108

That did as he posted solve the problem. Not sure it was same problem for others. Same thread talked about reverting back to another version. There did seem to be problems back then with some of the 700 series. Future software updates must have solved some of them.