Want to edit an existing POI to fix a location error

 

While I wait for a communication to arrive, want to ask if this can be done....

A POI that I use, reports a location to be blocks from where it really is, and since the POI location is set back from the street it's really easy to miss it. I'd like to fix this... at least temporarily, until I can report this to the POI Writer.

I did find the location in the CSV file, and the address indicated is correct, so I'm assuming that it's the co-ordinates that are in error.

I remember doing this before on my 660, except that I didn't know that the 660 supported multiple co-ordinate settings, and so the information I gave the POI Writer turned out to be incorrect (Different Format) for what he needed.... I don't want to do this again!

Using my new 2689LMT Where Does one find the co-ordinates, and how do I determine if the co-ordinates selected match the one's in the POI?

Thanks

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

Use Google Maps

I use Google Maps. Go to the satellite view then click on the location, a small box will pop up with the coordinates. Now, just put those coordinates in the CSV file.

--
Garmin Nuvi 2450

I must be doing something

I must be doing something wrong. Google Maps, Satelite View, click on location get a review of place, no co-ordinates...

Taylor Ford 524 Russ Avenue Waynesville NC

What am I doing wrong?

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A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

AH FOUND IT! I have to click

AH FOUND IT!

I have to click "What's Here"!!!

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

AH!!! Not only did I learn

AH!!! Not only did I learn how to fix a co-ordinate in the Ford csv file, I figured out how to add a new location to the Trader Joe's csv file (to add an Ashville location)!!! and verified they worked afterward!

Informed both of the folks who support these files of the new information!

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A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

Correcting location data

Be sure to let the maintainer of the file know, otherwise next time they update the file, it will still have the incorrect coordinates.

I prefer

JanJ wrote:

AH!!! Not only did I learn how to fix a co-ordinate in the Ford csv file, I figured out how to add a new location to the Trader Joe's csv file (to add an Ashville location)!!! and verified they worked afterward!

Informed both of the folks who support these files of the new information!

I prefer to use this app to get locations.
http://www.itouchmap.com/latlong.html

You can drag the pointer and then right click it for the coordinates.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

Using a PC is Much Easier

I use Google maps to locate an address then switch to Google earth. I put the pointer on the location I want and read the coordinates at the bottom of the screen. You can import the .CSV file into Google Earth and see where all the POI's are located.

It isn't always obvious from an aerial image where a POI actually is but landmarks, driveways and mall entrances are easily located.

All of this can be done using EPE, a program that is highly recommended by many here at the factory. It will even allow you to modify the .CSV file.

Me too

Box Car wrote:
JanJ wrote:

AH!!! Not only did I learn how to fix a co-ordinate in the Ford csv file, I figured out how to add a new location to the Trader Joe's csv file (to add an Ashville location)!!! and verified they worked afterward!

Informed both of the folks who support these files of the new information!

I prefer to use this app to get locations.
http://www.itouchmap.com/latlong.html

You can drag the pointer and then right click it for the coordinates.

I have used this app for years and it has always worked for me. I prefer it to Google maps when I am looking up a location.

--
It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. ----George Washington

Better yet

bdhsfz6 wrote:

I use Google maps to locate an address then switch to Google earth. I put the pointer on the location I want and read the coordinates at the bottom of the screen. You can import the .CSV file into Google Earth and see where all the POI's are located.

bdhsfz6, I use Google Earth all the time, and there's even a better technique than the one you cite.
First of all, you can download GE directly and not go through Google Maps.
Using GE, when you locate your target, just click on the yellow pushpin on the top. The pushpin will appear in the middle of the satellite image. If you move the cursor to the very tip of the pushpin, you can drag it to the EXACT location you want: a building, a driveway, anything. The coordinates are displayed in a separate window that had opened. Copy and paste into your POI and you're all ready to go.

Phil

--
Phil in Mentor, Ohio -- Garmin Nuvi 1450

Thanks For the Tip

plunder wrote:
bdhsfz6 wrote:

I use Google maps to locate an address then switch to Google earth. I put the pointer on the location I want and read the coordinates at the bottom of the screen. You can import the .CSV file into Google Earth and see where all the POI's are located.

bdhsfz6, I use Google Earth all the time, and there's even a better technique than the one you cite.
First of all, you can download GE directly and not go through Google Maps.
Using GE, when you locate your target, just click on the yellow pushpin on the top. The pushpin will appear in the middle of the satellite image. If you move the cursor to the very tip of the pushpin, you can drag it to the EXACT location you want: a building, a driveway, anything. The coordinates are displayed in a separate window that had opened. Copy and paste into your POI and you're all ready to go.

Phil

Actually, I do boot Google Earth pro first then run Basecamp to view .CSV files. I only use Google Maps for address information. I didn't know about the yellow pushpin however. Thanks for the tip!

Want some clarification on

Want some clarification on what I did, as it still may not be correct.

I entered the co-ordinates according to the procedure indicated above... However.. as I went by that Ford location in the car today, it did not announce the ford dealership, though the Icon was shown, and it is being displayed where the building is.... Set Back from the road...

My Question to POI folks in the know....

Should the Co-ordinates be shown at the frontage street? Google and the Garmin (Ford Icon) shows it set back from the road which is correct according to Google. Those set back coordinates is what I used.

Prior to this The POI thought the dealership was about 6-8 blocks further away...

So I'm "Close" but "No Cigar"....

Since it's set back from the road, this might be why it didn't announce, as I have that POI set to announce at 2000 feet.

So, should I have requested the coordinates at the main road in front of the dealership? Google has it set back from the road, as is the coordinates I posted...

Again, I'm seeing the Ford Logo set back from the road, and do not hear the .wav file 'ford dealership ahead'...

??????

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

For alerts, be near the road

JanJ wrote:

Want some clarification on what I did, as it still may not be correct...

My Question to POI folks in the know....

Should the Co-ordinates be shown at the frontage street? Google and the Garmin (Ford Icon) shows it set back from the road which is correct according to Google. Those set back coordinates is what I used...

If you want an audio alert, my suggestion is to set the location at the driveway entrance. I didn't find a faq here after a quick search but as I remember, then POI locations needs to be within maybe 50-75 feet of the roadway for the alert to work as a "drive by" alert.

Thanks much CraigW... Here's

Thanks much CraigW... Here's more info on this....

The first coordinates I entered were:
35.50134 & -82.987123

(According to Google Maps) This is about 250-300' back from the street, and this makes what you just posted correct for the symptoms I heard.

I took a reading on 524 Russ street (Address of Dealer) Adjacent to the street and get:
35.50093 & -82.98782

I'm going to try that, and post how that works...

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

30 meters

If one wants an alert "along the route" the coordinates of the POI must be within 30 meters of the road on which you are traveling.

Note that the software is written using the metric system. 30 meters works out to about 98 feet.

see
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42425

Aha

jgermann wrote:

If one wants an alert "along the route" the coordinates of the POI must be within 30 meters of the road on which you are traveling.

Note that the software is written using the metric system. 30 meters works out to about 98 feet.

see
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42425

Aha, I now need to remember to search for "alerts" to find this number which I always forget. Thanks.

Good News!

The "revised" coordinates work beautifully!
Thanks for the info about 'alerts' distance!
35.50093 & -82.98782 is correct!!!

I'll send the writer a revised email

P.S. I also took the audio file, which sounded lower level (Compared to other POI audio files) and increased gain 5db.

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

That accounts for my making

That accounts for my making Cracker Barrell a TourGuide years ago, after a lot of Cracker Barrels didn't 'Alert' because they are also 'set back' from the road, and didn't 'Alert' until I changed it to a TourGuide POI!

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

TourGuide revisited

JanJ wrote:

That accounts for my making Cracker Barrell a TourGuide years ago...

Isn't it funny how we forget things. It seems that every 2 or 3 years we have a two- or three-week long discussion thread about simple alerts vs. TourGuide and which one requires our destination to be close to the road vs. within a defined radius. Maybe we'll be good now for another couple of years.

Phil

--
Phil in Mentor, Ohio -- Garmin Nuvi 1450

Actually, I wouldn't have

Actually, I wouldn't have had to learn about it if the Cracker Barrel POI had all Coordinates set by the roadways .. Which some were, and some weren't.... causing all sorts of ambiguous user results... My use of TourGuide was a simpler fix than going through all the entries and editing them!

As opposed to the Ford POI, where this one Ford Dealer had moved and the new location is set back 300' from the road... and I used what Google Maps provided, thinking it was correct (well it was,in a way!) smile!

Unfortunate part was I didn't realize Cracker Barrel and this one Ford problem was on and the same issue, and I fixed but masked the problem with TourGuide in one issue, and coordinates in other issue.

And don't forget the newbee: (ME) that is attempting to fix something, and falling into all the potential traps that one could do..... because he's new at this...

And you get this topic!!!

At least it ended with a positive ending, instead of a vague cry for help from someone who doesn't attempt to fix anything!!!!

Hopefully this will help others!

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

Talk about "Traps"

@JanJ, your comment about "traps" made me want to make sure others reading this thread understand more about how "Alerts" and POI file coordinates interact.

"Alerts" are one of the most misunderstood aspects of a GPS. Many new user download some POI file and load it onto their GPS using POI Loader expecting that they will get an "alert" (either a "bong" or a sound file) whenever their GPS ventures close to one of the locations in the POI file. Most of the time, they are disappointed and confused when "alerts" do not occur.

Perhaps the best place to start when trying to understand "Alerts" is with POI files themselves. Why? Because the placement of the coordinates for each POI location has an impact on whether or not one will receive alerts.

Let's think for a minute about how a POI file gets created in the first place. On this site, at least, a member decides that he or she will spend the time to research some business and create the POI file. In the best case, the creator will be able to contact the business and get a complete listing of all of their locations with information like store number, complete address, phone, etc. And, in the really best possible case, will be given coordinates, too. However, most times the creator will just use the internet to find store locations - laboriously cutting and pasting information from the web site to, say, Notepad or Excel. Each case is different.

If the information the creator gets has coordinates, the hardest part of producing a POI file is done. Otherwise, the creator must "geocode" addresses to obtain these coordinates. While there are various ways this can be accomplished, I prefer to use Extra POI Editor (EPE) which was written by a poi-factory member named TurboCC.

But, just because one has an address, does not mean that it can be turned into a set of coordinates - regardless of what tool one uses to geocode. It takes time even for superb tools like Google to access data from jurisdictions on addresses in new developments.

Further, having an mailing address does not mean one has a "store location" address - think malls.

Suffice it to say that the process of turning an address into a set of coordinates is fraught with problems. I have found that the only way to be sure that you have proper coordinates for some POI is to check them in GoogleMaps. Even then, one is dependent on when the Google images were last updated.

Once a POI creator has turned addresses into coordinates, a determination must be made as to where these coordinates are relative to, say, the "front door" of the POI. My feeling is that most GPS users just assume that the "front door" is where the coordinates will be set.

From the perspective of the creator of a POI file, having any set of coordinates for the location may be all he or she is after. Because, if the purpose of the POI file is to allow a user to navigate to a specific POI - think "find me the nearest Walmart" - then it does not matter exactly where the actual coordinates are so long as one can see signs to the location or the location itself. In the ballpark is close enough.

Herein is the rub. The ability to get an "Alert" for a POI while not actually navigating "to" a specific POI is dependent on whether you want the "Alert" to occur when you are "along the route" or whether you want to be notified whenever you get somewhere near a POI - whether you are navigating a route or not.

The best example of an "along the route" alert may well be the "Rest Areas Combined" file (now being maintained by Vito and previously by MrKenFL). Take a look at http://www.poi-factory.com/node/6643. In the explanation is this statement:

Quote:

The coordinates shown, in the great majority, are the coordinates for the entrance to the "location" off ramp.

The reason this is important is that "along the route" alerts will occur ONLY when the coordinates of a POI are within 30 meters of the centerline of the road on which you are traveling. Here is a Garmin FAQ I saved some time ago:

Quote:

How close do I have to be to a proximity point before my nuvi will alert me?
Answer:
While navigating, the proximity point will need to be within 30 meters of the route, regardless of the distance set in the POI Loader, to trigger an alert. This helps to reduce false alerts that can occur if you are traveling on a road close to a proximity point even if it is not affected by the alert.
Last modified on: 03/10/2011

Note that the distance is specified in meters because the metric system underlies the Garmin software. And, 30 meters is about 98 feet.

So this is why Vito is placing Rest Area coordinates for the entrance to the "location" off ramp (as opposed to the door to the restrooms) and also suggesting that you set a proximity in manual mode of POI Loader to 1 to 2 miles so you will have time to make a decision as to whether or not to stop at the next Rest Area.

Now, just to muddy the water a bit, let's think about those Rest Areas that on either side of a divided highway - directly across from one another. There are several of these close to me and I will get an alert for both of them, even though I can only turn into one of them because of the divided highway. Also, there are some Rest Areas where you will be alerted only to find that this particular Rest Area is on the opposite side of the divided highway you are traveling on.
How would this occur? Well, the coordinates for such a Rest Area will turn out to be within 98 feet (30 meters) of both sides of the divided highway. The only way Vito would know of any of these instances would be to be notified by one of us - which I try to do when I find them. My point in mentioning this is to emphasize the fact that "Alerts" can produce quite unintended results.

Before one uses any POI file for "Alert" purposes, one must determine whether or not the creator/maintainer of the file had any specific purpose in mind when determining which coordinates to use.

For example, I was asked to take over maintenance of Jo-Ann Fabric and Craft stores. I got a complete list of stores from the corporate offices and proceeded to "geocode" them. I then looked at each location using Google so that I could be able to say in the following in http://www.poi-factory.com/node/19280.

Quote:

The coordinates have been placed at an intersection into the (usually) strip malls in which these stores are located. Whenever possible, I have tried to pick entrances that also contain signage indicating that there is a Jo-Ann store in the mall (whenever I was able to find such using Google street view)

Now, I do not expect that many people would want an "Alert" to occur for a Jo-Ann. But maybe this would be a scenario. Say, I am out-of-town at a conference that will last several day and I have my wife with me. There will be enough free time for us to go places during the day. I might have said to myself - if ever I am on my way somewhere - say to eat - and there is a Jo-Ann along the way on the "route" to the restaurant (or wherever I am routing to), I want to be notified so we might be able to stop there on the way back to the hotel after we finish eating.

A discussion of "Alerts" would not be complete without a discussion of "TourGuide". One POI that many of us use as an example of why we like "TourGuide" is Cracker Barrel. When traveling, this is always a good place to eat. You know just what to expect when you eat at any of them. So, many of us use "TourGuide" in the name of our Cracker Barrel POI file - see http://www.poi-factory.com/node/17225 - and set a proximity of several miles. Then, whenever the GPS device comes within an "as the crow flies" distance of 2 miles of any Cracker Barrel (whether we are on a "route" or not), an "Alert" will occur. Now bear in mind that this particular Cracker Barrel might be on the other side of a, say, river, and be extremely difficult to get to from where the GPS device is currently. Such a situation is another of those unintended consequences of "Alerts".

Great Explanation, jgermann

As always, you have done a great job explaining this, John. It was not new to me, but I read this from the perspective of someone that was less familiar, and it proved to be excellent.

--
NUVI2555LMT, NUVI350

Thanks,

Thanks, Dave, I really appreciate those comments.

Based on some of the files you maintain, I would expect you would agree with the need for explanation of the interaction of coordinates and alerts.

I will probably turn this into a FAQ

Many Addressing Issues

Anyone that maintains a file(s) has seen many geocoding and creation issues.

A site like Jo-Anns, or Kia, GM, etc, often has a store locator section. However, just because it says the store or dealership is in a major city like Syracuse, or Saginaw, etc., the location, might be officially in a small township, or town. Using the name of the larger city, is because someone looking will be familiar with the the main city, but is not familiar with the name of the suburb, that it's actually located in.

I had many like that with the KIA Canada file, and had to do a lot of scrolling around Google Earth to find the actual physical location.

In other cases the geocoding, may be way off the actual physical location. Geocoding often uses an algorithm to determine the location based on the street number.

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NUVI2555LMT, NUVI350

That was Fantastic!!

Thank You, so much for that post!

Talk about needing to be a "Sticky"!!!

Cleared up questions regarding multiple things I seen and heard in the past, and didn't know exactly why it was happening... (RestAreas included by the way!)....
I never took into consideration of how multiple people contributing could cause inconsistencies in a POI.
Prior to today, I was guilty of some of the issues you explained.
As I posted, "Close" May or May Not be what the POI wants...
I'm copying and pasting your post into my GPS Help document.
Thanks again!

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!