Request Input From Nuvi Owners With Voice Command (URGENT)

Not to be Doomsday-ish, but this is critical for all Voice Command Garmin GPS model owners, whether or not you use Voice Command.

Leavings older unneeded SRX and ASR files in the ASR folder can easily take away around 800MB, or even more than 1.5GB, of storage and this may well prevent installation of a map update internally to the nuvi.

This could be a very frequent occurrence given the incidence we've seen in a very limited number of devices in the thread muell9k offered. I really look forward to seeing more data from other owners as to how often leftover srx and asr files are left after a map update—and to possibly start gathering information as to whether this is random, or if there's some common factor causing the problem.

Voice Command models go back as far as the 855 and continue right up to the newest models. Note that for the very old Voice Command models like the nuvi 855, the ASR folder will be found in the device's Garmin\ASR folder, not the .system\ASR location.

One final thought: if this is an ongoing issue for more than a tiny number of folks, and if this is a random occurrence, you will want to add to your checklist for doing map updates a check of the ASR folder for large leftover files after each map update. A one-time check now may not be sufficient if the issue can reappear with each map update.

If possible you may want to EDIT this post as I think you've said 2014.40 in a couple of places and mean 2015.40. Maybe confusing to some.

The accumulation of unused files in the ASR folder could be a result of using the cloning method for map updates. There may be other causes too, but if you use cloning for map updates and if you just simply copy the new files in the ASR folder from the clone to the device, the old files in the ASR folder don't get deleted.

The way I avoid this is to always have the complete ASR folder on the cloned SD card. Then after the map update I delete all the files in the device ASR folder and copy the full updated folder from the clone back to the device.

This process is documented in the Cloning Method FAQ for the 8xx nuvis (steps 5 and 10), but the same method can also be used with the newer models with ASR.

Thanks for adivising I've corrected the dates, I'm still living in yesteryear.

I checke my Nuvi 2597 for extra files after reading the post and found the following.I have done sall map updates since I have had this unit.

04CNCW74.SRX dated 5-22-14 at 46.7 MB.
04CNCW75.ASR dated 5-22-14 at 400 MB
04CNCW76.ASR dated 5-22-14 at 38.4 MB
04CNCW77.ASR dated 5-22-14 at 166 MB
04CNCW78.ASR dated 5-22-14 at 322 MB

Attached my 2595 and find the following
gmapprom.img (2.2GB dated 10/18/2050)
05CA6QRK.srx (46.3MB dated 12/18/2014)
05CA6QRL.asr (423MB dated 12/18/2014)
05CA6QRM.asr (57.5MB dated 12/18/2014)
05CA6QRN.asr (174MB dated 12/18/2014)
05CA6QRO.asr (333MB dated 12/18/2014)

For each file, I right clicked and looked at Properties to get my data.

Have no idea how GE came up with a "Date Created" of 10/18/2050, but a number of other files have the same range of dates (10/13 to 10/18) in 2050.

I never have used the clone method for map updates so I'm no help on that. I don't know if those who have numerous ASR files used that method.
One example for numerouse ASR files may look like this: (Notice ID # the same only last letter chaged)
The date stamp is all the same for those files so it's confusing.
05CA6QRK.SRX
05CA6QRL.ASR
05CA6QRM.ASR
05CA6QRN.ASR
05CA6QRO.ASR

My first thought were that 3 of the ASR files were of old maps that if the maps were copied back to the Nuvi there would be compatible ASR files remaining on the Nuvi for voice command to function. The Nuvi may have a limit on how many old ARS files it will retain(4) But I really don't think that's the case since you can't download an older map, only the latest. The only way to put an older map back is have a backup, and why is the date stamp the same for all files.

Charles,
Do you have the full North America 2015.30 on those ASR files or is that an older map (5-22-14)
Both my file, and jgermann's 4 ASR files have an ID # of 05CA6QR, yours is 04CNCW7. Our last character sequence is a letter, where yours is a number.
I'm getting more and more confused with these ASR file naming.

alandb,

I found two sets of old unneeded srx/asr pairs in my nuvi 855 which was done with the clone technique, so cloning is a potential culprit. But it can't be the only one. My nuvi 2460 had one old unneeded pair of files and it was not a map update via clone.

Yes I have the latest maps.CN North America 2015.30 All

I am not surprised CraigW if some of the older versions of Garmin MapUpdater and/or Garmin Express didn't correctly delete the oler files. I don't specically remember that bug, but as we know there have been plenty of bugs in past versions of both programs.

Good golly, it gets so much more confusing. I would have bet a dollar that all current srx/asr files would start with 05 right now. But then, the filedates are 5/22/14 implying to me that they came from a map update done in May 2014 (the 2015.10 map update). If those are your only srx/asr files, it means either that you've not done a map update after 2015.10—or even more confusingly, the .20 and .30 map updates didn't update the srx/asr files and continue to use the files from May 2014. Can you help explain? Also, does Voice Command work for you?

gmapprom.img (2.20 GB dated 11/12/2014)
05CA6QRK.SRX (46.3 MB dated 11/12/14)
05CA6QRL.ASR (423 MB dated 11/12/2014)
05CA6QRM.ASR (57.5 MB dated 11/12/2014)
05CA6QRN.ASR (174 MB dated 11/12/2014)
05CA6QRO.ASR (333 MB dated11/12/2014)

Data is from properties. 2015.3 update.

OK, experts, tell me what you think.

I think that one thing that can be stated right now in this very confusing issue is that if your ASR folder has more than one .srx file, you are a victim of having old unneeded files.

For folks finding more than one .srx file now, I suggest you start a new thread where we can potentially test and possibly delete these old files now before the next map update comes out.

I suspect that for each .srx file, there will be either one or four .asr files and regardless of the number of .asr files, they'll total over 750MB so that unneeded srx/asr sets should be looked at for a potential deletion from the device after having stored backups of the files elsewhere.

On my nuvi 2460 with one older set of srx/asr files, I did delete the old set and kept the newest set and found that voice command worked fine while giving my 2460 an extra 775MB of internal free storage.

I hope that's the case since it may mean the problem will not crop up for the next and future updates with GMU or GE and we'll just need to fix the problems left behind from when these older files were left behind.

Correction.Picked one of my old backups.
This is correct info.
05CA6QRK.SRX 11-14-14 47,489 KB
05CA6QRL.ASR 11-14-14 433,486 KB
05CA6QRM ASR 11-14-14 58,977 KB
05CA6QRN ASR 11-14-14 179,009 KB
05CA6QRO ASR 11-14-14 341,679KB

I hadn't thought of this before but I just did a Google search for

garmin asr srx

and came up with several hits. Each explains that the old versions of the srx/asr files should be deleting before performing map updates. Most links make me think they're from folks doing pirate map updates so it doesn't help us at all with why valid map updates with Garmin Express or GarminMapUpdater leave older versions behind, but it does support the thought that older srx/asr sets can be safely deleted without loss of function to the device.

Now I feel better

Charles thanks for the correction, I was really getting stumped with that one.

Criag, I’m not so sure that statement is correct that only 1 ASR file is needed, perhaps our 2460’s work with only one but other models may not.
If you look at the different ASR file sizes and the sequence of letters in member jjen’s listing,
The 05CA6QRM file is only 57.5MB, compared to the other larger ones. I can’t see having this small file as the only ASR file will let Voice Command function. I really now think that some units must have all 4 to work.
Why would the ASR file ending in M or N be so much smaller than the L &O files. Surely those can’t be a functional ASR file. Can it be possible, depending how many foreign language files users have loaded affects the ASR files. I just don’t know what the answer is.The date stamps are of no help if they are older files or not. .

It does show based on the dates no files are added and the old ones were removed on the map update.

I checked my original backup and it had only one of each file. Checked my last backup and the unit itself and they had two of each of those two file types, dated 2/14 and 11/14 that was when I did the last map update.

I deleted the two files on the 3790 dated 2/14 and then tested the voice command on the unit and it worked fine. recovered around 800MB of space.

The 2/14 files left must have been left after a failed update but I cannot remember if it was GE or Mapupdater that failed.

Garmin 2460 running software version 3.60 with Full Coverage North America 2015.30 map installed (to SD card) using Garmin Express.

I don't use voice command; if it pops up with "say a command" I tell it "exit" and wonder what it heard to get it to pop up. Doesn't happen very often, Gott Sie Dank.

Relevant files from the ASR directory:

-rwxrwxrwx 1 bob staff 2.5M Apr 26 2011 01YMLIBK.SRX
-rwxrwxrwx 1 bob staff 729M Apr 26 2011 01YMLIBL.ASR
-rwxrwxrwx 1 bob staff 2.6M Apr 23 2014 04CNCW00.SRX
-rwxrwxrwx 1 bob staff 759M Apr 23 2014 04CNCW01.ASR
-rwxrwxrwx 1 bob staff 2.6M Nov 12 07:33 05CA6QKG.SRX
-rwxrwxrwx 1 bob staff 762M Nov 12 07:38 05CA6QKH.ASR

That's 1.5 gigs of stuff I don't need...

Assuming the dates on the files are accurate, it would seem these files have survived map installs using Garmin Express, as that's what I've used for the last two map updates (at least).

Let me know if you need more. Watching for the map update.

rjrsw, that's a success in my book.

k6rtm, assuming you have a backup, I'd certainly consider deleting the four files beginning 01 and 04. To be extra safe, you could always rename the files with an added .old, then test the voice command. If it still works, then go back and delete the 01 and 04 files. Hmm, since you don't like the occasional "Say a command" when your 2460 thinks you activated it, how about editing your wakeup command to something more complex than Voice Command?

For both of you—after the next map update, check again to make sure that only the newest files are there.

I agree with what you say but that was not what I was trying to say.

I agree that some devices use just one asr file (our 2460s, for example) while others require four asr files (the 3597, for instance).

What I was suggesting and asking for input on was my thought that the presence of two (or more) srx (not asr) files indicates the presence of at least one set of older unneeded files that can be potential deletion subjects. Can you think of any instance where two or more srx files are proper?

I bought my 3597LMTHD back in January 2014 (Refurb from The GPS Store). The first thing I did when I took it out of the box was a full backup. I still have this backup so I looked to see what was in the ASR folder when it was shipped:

046VN6DC.SRX 50,561,221
046VN6DD.ASR 412,406,008
046VN6DE.ASR 37,814,861
046VN6DF.ASR 136,370,034
046VN6DG.ASR 309,887,205
en_US.srd 2,820,071
es_US.srd 1,987,690
fr_CA.srd 2,167,852

I don't recall what map version it was (probably 2014.20 or 2014.30). Note that there are no dates shown in the directory on these files ... it is common to see undated files on nuvi's that have never been updated.

I have since deleted the .srd files for the US Spanish and Canadian French languages, and the .SRD files are not typically updated by the map updates, so they have never reappeared. But it does make me wonder if some of the ASR files are also for Spanish and French language support.

I completely back up my unit before running GMU and once the update completes, I also back up the installation and log files. I'm sure GE must have an equivalent installation log and that's where I'd find the strings containing any file name I wanted to research which update it's relevant to.

There's a wealth of information in those log files and I rarely see any suggestions here to look at 'em. Wish I could be more help, but it ought to be interesting getting to the bottom of this.

It seems like we’re making some progress here. I really am surprised at the fact that member rijsw’s 3790 works with only the two files, I would have thought he had 4 ASR files on the 3790. Since his original backup only had 1 SRX & ASR file and the Voice Command worked proves that indeed many members have orphaned files wasting valuable space.

@ rjrsw
Thanks for the experiment on your 3790 by deleting the two files 2/14 orphaned files. This indicates the 3790 model like the 2460 will function with only 1 SRX and ASR file. Keep an eye out on the 2015.40 update to confirm the 11/14 files were removed and replaced with newer ones. Happy to hear you were able to recover 800MB.

@k6rtm
Thank you for your input on your 2460.
-rwxrwxrwx 1 bob staff 2.5M Apr 26 2011 01YMLIBK.SRX
-rwxrwxrwx 1 bob staff 729M Apr 26 2011 01YMLIBL.ASR
-rwxrwxrwx 1 bob staff 2.6M Apr 23 2014 04CNCW00.SRX
-rwxrwxrwx 1 bob staff 759M Apr 23 2014 04CNCW01.ASR
-rwxrwxrwx 1 bob staff 2.6M Nov 12 07:33 05CA6QKG.SRX
-rwxrwxrwx 1 bob staff 762M Nov 12 07:38 05CA6QKH.ASR

I’m sure if you delete the 4 files and only leave the 05CA6QKG.SRX, and 05CA6QKH.ASR files your Voice Command will still function. Those are the exact only 2 files I have on my 2460 that functions normally. To be on the safe side please backup all those ASR files before deleting. Looks like you’ll gain the 1.5GB space that’s being wasted from orphaned files

Edited: After posting I saw alandb indicated his new 3597 out of the box came with 4 ASR files, so I'm confused again. I know the 3597 uses the TTS3 voices but I don't think that would have a bearing other than the larger ASR files. It is quite possible then as Alan mentioned that " some of the ASR files are also for Spanish and French language support" that are present on the original Nuvi backup.

Oh well, back to the think tank (getting low).

nuvi 3597

used Map Updater and Garmin Express

full CN North America 2015.30

never cloned

this is a refurb

never used Voice Command

05CA6QRK.srx -12/22/14- 47,489 KB

05CA6QRL.asr -12/22/14- 433,486 KB

05CA6QRM.asr -12/22/14- 58,977 KB

05CA6QRN.asr -12/22/14- 179,090 KB

05CA6QRO.asr -12/22/14- 341,679 KB

An older backup is available from 7/22/14. This has the same number of files with similar sizes but the filenames are different.

My 3790LMT is now back up to around 2 GB's of free space and that is with no other standard voice or and other files being deleted plus it has an additional Arizona Topo map on the unit.

Good observation, even though the SRX files are much smaller, I don't think more than 1 SRX file would be required. Maybe that one file would be just updated.
I see member k6rtm has 3 srx files, each corresponding with a same named ASR file. Maybe that is another clue to isolate orphaned files. If it has both a SRX & ASR file for the same map, that may an indication there are extra old files present. What do you think?

I wouldn't suggest this to everyone yet, since some folks will forget to do a backup first in the event a deleted file is needed. But for my devices, if I see more than one srx file on a GPS of mine, I'd keep the most recent srx and similar dated asr files and I' delete all the earlier srx and similarly dated asr files. (In fact that's what I've done with my two devices with unneeded files.)

I found this post over on the GPS Review Forum made back in 2012 by forum member popej. I don't think popej is a member of POI Factory. He is from Poland, is very knowledgable about Garmin devices and is active in several gps forums. Anyway, you may find his post interesting:

All Nuvi owner should have a recent backup, we know that's not the case.

Craig, you are right, deleting files can become dangerous for those unaccustomed to working with files. If your not sure what your doing DON"T DELETE ANYTHING.

We don't want members to possibly render their GPS useless in an attempt to gain space with suggestions made. Backing up just the ASR folder may be time consuming due to it's size, some individuals may want to bypass the backup process and open themselve up to problems.

@alandb
Thanks for the quoted post regarding voice command search. I never mentioned the .srd files since they are insigificant because they're so small. I wouldn't remove any of them. I didn't know WebUpdater updated those .SRD files, I can't recall seeing them when using WebuDater. I'm assuming GE would also update them even though popej doesn't mention GE.

What are your thoughts on the abundance of ASR files on some Nuvi's.

I assume the reason popej mentioned WebUpater instead of Garmin Express is that we were probably not using Express back in 2012 (I don't remember tho). In any case, I think his point is that the SRD files are not tied to the map and therefore are not updated with a map update.

Another interesting thing I have read about is that the SRD files must remain on the internal storage, while the ASR and SRX files can exist and be used from the SD card. They must be in folder \Garmin\ASR when they are on SD (not \.system\ASR). I have never tested this, and see no reason to run the nuvi that way. I may try it sometime tho just for the fun of it.

As to why the older voice recognition nuvi's (like your 2460 and my 855) require only one ASR file and the newer ones like my 3597 require four, I don't know. It probably has something to do with additional vocabulary, language support or something like that, but I don't recall ever seeing an explanation.

With Garmin on these files if they are needed or not?

Garmin's response to a different file question was answered with their files are proprietary and won't divulge any information.
Obviously they are needed for Voice Command to work, the question is why so many on some models and others only two.

Always up for a challenge I did the experiment although my first test was flawed.

I left the .SRT files in the .System\ASR folder and copied the .ASR & .SRX files to a created Garmin\ASR folder on the SD card, I then deleted the ASR & SRX files from the Nuvi.

Next I tried the voice command on the Nuvi by selecting a Favorite. It was working but unresponsive when I spoke back or exit. I repeated several times and finally it did respond. My mistake here was doing this indoors, it was trying to locate satellites thus the poor response.

I then took it the Nuvi outdoors and after locking on Satellites I spoke the voice commands again and everything responded quickly. Looks like the Nuvi can only do one thing at a time.
I did Not test it on an actual route to make sure it continued to work on that route so the test is not conclusive. It did give me the Go option when the favorite was selected so I think it would work.

So it appears you can have the ASR & SRX file on an SD card for voice command to work.
I DO AGREE WITH YOU I too see no reason to run the Nuvi that way.

By doing this test I also learned Windows Date Stamp has a flaw, at least on my PC. In Windows Explorer if you have both Date Created & Date Modified columns present the date stamps are opposite of what I think they should be. Under Date Created that date should be just that, if you move the file the date you moved it should be the Date Modified. The complete opposite is what is shown. If you need the accurate date of the file you must look at Date Modified and not Date Created.

Thanks muell9k for confirming that this will work. Just for grins and giggles, I gave this a try on my old 855 which has only one ASR file (and of course one SRX file). It worked perfectly on the first try.

After testing this on my 855, it occurred to me that the ASR/SRX files are about the same size as the full JCV file. So on the 855, it gives us a little more cushion to keep the full NA map on internal storage as the map continues to grow. I think for the 2015.40 map update I will put the ASR files on the SD and the JCV file on internal storage ... a reversal of the way I have been running it. I don't use speech recognition that often, so for performance, it is probably better to keep the JCV in internal storage.

Ok since i opened this can of worms thought i would add this. Besides the 2797 i started this with I bought a Rfurb Nuvi 3597 last week. It came with map 2015.10 and these files were in the asr folder:
04CNCW74.SRX 4/23/2014 47 MB
04CNCW75.ASR 4/23/2014 410 MB
04CNCW76.ASR 4/23/2014 39 MB
04CNCW77.ASR 4/23/2014 170 MB
04CNCW78.ASR 4/23/2014 329 MB
EN_US.SRD 12/19/2012 2.7 MB
ES_US.SRD 10/5.2012 1.9 MB
FR_CA.SRD 10/5.2012 2 MB

I updated to map 2015.30 USING GE and these files are in the asr folder after updating:
05CA6QRK.SRX 3/11/2015 47 MB
05CA6QRL.ASR 3/11/2015 433 MB
05CA6QRM.ASR 3/11/2015 58 MB
05CA6QRN.ASR 3/11/2015 179 MB
05CA6QRO.ASR 3/11/2015 341 MB
EN_US.SRD 12/19/2012 2.7 MB
ES_US.SRD 10/5/2012 1.9 MB
FR_CA.SRD 10/5/2012 2 MB

Perfect. That's the way your new 3597 should update.

If anyone is going to keep track of the GB of free space gained on The Factory members' Garmin devices from your discovery, I'm wondering if we need to celebrate and have a Stan cake or something once it reaches 1TB of freed up storage. Of course, if this happened two days ago, we would have had pi.

lol good laugh

It should be a Stan-ly Cup Cake.

I need to make a trip to the drugstore today to replenish my supply of aspirin, for some reason I've been having these terrible headaches lately.

As CraigW mentioned those files look good. We've come to the conclusion some models, mostly older ones, function with only 1 ASR and SRX file.
Newer models may require 4 ASR files and 1 SRX file.

It is interesting to note how the file names changed,
the 2015.10 map files last character ending in a sequntial numeral, and the 2015.30 map ending in a sequential letter.
They are both in the same year map versions(2015).

As we can see your files increased slightly with updating the map two map versions, this is expected since the maps are ever increasing in size. In the future if members are complaining of lack of available memory on Voice Activated units, we can have them check their ASR folders to see if there are orphaned files.

What would be a good test is to take note what files are there now by the members.Then after this next map download .Compare those who use mapupdater to Garmin Express and see who gets extra files.

From what I've learned so far, it's possible that both MapUpdater and GE were guilty of leaving orphaned files at intermittent stages. Meaning the ASR file download worked properly on one Map version but failed to remove the files at other times. Unable to determine what program was used at the time since users used both programs and weren't even aware there were orphaned files.

My 3597 as of 3/17/15

This device has been updated several times since new, always with Garmin Express.
2015.30

05CA6QRK.SRX 11/11/2014 46.3MB
05CA6QRL.ASR 11/11/2014 423MB
05CA6QRM.ASR 11/11/2014 57.5MB
05CA6QRN.ASR 11/11/2014 174 MB
05CA6QRO.ASR 11/11/2014 333MB

In my case I don't recalled using Garmin Express because of past problems.Used Mapupdater and on the old backup it shows 4 asr and 1 srx. The same for the latest mapupdate using Mapupdater.Based on dates of the files I feel OK that is the number I should have. Plus the old files were replaced with the new ones.So my thoughts are.What map update process was used and what did a few members do different on the update?.Did they have a problem that resulted in the extra files?Is it just confined to Garmin Express with all the numerous updates?Is Mapupdater getting the best results or is it a part of the problem?

Many times I used Garmin Express on the 3597, and there are no orpan files. Perhaps this happened with older units when using an older version of Garmin Express.

dobs108

Your files look OK for the model 3597.
No, I don't intend to create a spredsheet. I think the best course of action is to have each member that has Voice Activated models monitor their own ASR folders and check for orphaned files after an update.

I think the simplest method of detecting orphaned files is look at firat 7 characters of the file.
We know that 2015.30's map ID for ASR files is 05CA6QRO. If you see other files that don't match those characters and have the 2015.30 map loaded, those files are orphaned files.

The 05CA6QRO Id's the map as Full North America, I don't know the ID for lower 49 states is if that's what came with your Nuvi.
For those individuals EXPERIENCED working with files, you can backup your ASR folder, remove those orphaned files and test the Nuvi for Voice command. DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK.

I am curious to see what ASR names will be given to the 2015.40 map when released. We still don't know why sometimes GE or MapUpdater failed to remove old files. It's even possible it was user error when Map updating by a cancellation or interuption of the update and then a re-install which prevented the intial update to remove the old files. These are varaibles that would prove difficult to pinpoint.