Competition for the Red Light Camera

 

There is a lot of criticism for red light cameras on these forums. Maybe the color of the future, "Green", will placate some folks. What do you think?

http://whotv.com/2014/11/06/des-moines-police-exploring-idea...

Twas

jollywally wrote:

There is a lot of criticism for red light cameras on these forums. Maybe the color of the future, "Green", will placate some folks. What do you think?

http://whotv.com/2014/11/06/des-moines-police-exploring-idea-of-green-light-traffic-cameras/

Only a matter of time until something like this was proposed

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

actually

they are just adding a speed component to the red light cameras.

society

Our society has too much time on their hands at times. Rather than getting to work and producing, it chooses to either debate incessantly, or come up with a new service that adds no value.

How many of these threads add value?

Let's say we were to have no speed limit, like the autobahn. Think about it, you are responsible for your actions there, you must accelerate to match the speed of traffic (we don't seem to accomplish that here), and you are held responsible for accidents.

If we had "amnesty month," in which everybody were free to run lights and drive whatever speed they chose, would that really be a good thing? Somehow, I doubt it.

I was driving 40 in a 25 yesterday, in a hurry. Luck of the draw, the person in front of me got nabbed by a townie, and I did not. With speed cams, we would have been treated equally, and fairly.

And your point is....

That you were

Lucky

Stupid

In a hurry

Distracted

Ignorant

What?

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

"You have a rught to face your accuser!!!

How do you face a RLC in Court? They assume it is "telling the truth, "Cams never lie". You can't reasonably check calibration, conditions. You have to trust the people setting them up and testing them are honest and knowledgeable. Sure a LEO can lie too, but you can question them and check their record easier then a RLC

Misinterpretation of "Right to face your accuser"

windwalker wrote:

{"You Have A Rught To Face Your Accuser!!!} How do you face a RLC in Court? They assume it is "telling the truth, "Cams never lie". You can't reasonably check calibration, conditions. You have to trust the people setting them up and testing them are honest and knowledgeable. Sure a LEO can lie too, but you can question them and check their record easier then a RLC

@windwalker, you are not the first person (nor will you be the last) to misinterpret what the "right to face your accuser" means. Opponents of Automated Traffic Enforcement (ATE) have used the "right to face your accuser" argument for years to try to inflame opposition to ATE. They do so because it has such a good ring to it and those who do not stop to think about it are easily swayed.

So, let's look at the "right to face your accuser"

The Sixth Amendment to our Constitution says "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence".

Note that this Confrontation Clause, as it is known, applies to "criminal prosecutions". Tickets given for red light running, whether by ATE or LEO, are civil matters.

So, in the first place, the Confrontation Clause cannot be invoked because we are not dealing with a "criminal" matter.

But, let's think about the "accuser".

DanielT said in thread 28351 at comment 182899

Quote:

Actually, you DO get to face your accuser in court. It will be a representative of the municipal or state government that issued the ticket, and possibly a technician from the company that operates and maintains the cameras.

The photo or video is merely EVIDENCE. Like all evidence, a photo or video can be contested in court as to it's admissability, it's accuracy, and it's validity. THAT is how lawyers make their living!

If you think governments and camera companies are using speed and red light cameras as cash cows, ask your lawyer how much he or she will get paid assisting you in court.

I am sure that all of us are aware of high profile cases reported on the TV news where the "evidence" is some surveillance camera, or DNA, or fingerprints, or bank records, etc. How many of us were up-in-arms because the defendant's lawyers were not able to "question" the surveillance camera?

But, @windwalker, to your point about checking the camera itself. Several things are made available to a person issued a ticket at a red-light camera. There will be a photo of the vehicle behind the white line with the traffic light clearly red. There will be another photo of the car proceeding through the intersection with the traffic light clearly red. There will be a video showing the incident.

Now, if this "evidence" showed the vehicle behind a tall moving van (such that it might have been impossible to see that the light had turned red), there might be a "condition" which would be mitigating.

It is also possible that the reason that the violation occurred was because the timing of the "yellow light cycle" was improper. But, if a LEO had been present instead of ATE, a ticket would still have been issued. The defense would be a too short yellow.

But, these potential mitigating factors would have nothing to do with "face your accuser"

You Gotta Know That...

johnnatash4 wrote:

How many of these threads add value?

...For one, the participants are able to download the free Red Light files.

--
Tuckahoe Mike - Nuvi 3490LMT, Nuvi 260W, iPhone X, Mazda MX-5 Nav

???

johnnatash4 wrote:

...

How many of these threads add value?

...

Well, as just mentioned, a member posting in one of these threads gets credit toward the weekly posting requirement.

But - I am interested in why you are asking the question because you have initiated a number of threads.

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/43111
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/43036
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42981
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42689
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/41972
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/41586

I think I posted in each of them. I suspect that each added value to my understanding of the subjects. At the very least, I have learned a lot about the members who also posted.

thats

Debatable

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

rlc

interesting