Wishful Thinking Regarding Websites

Some of them do listen. I'm the creator of the Gander Mtn. and Lake County Ohio, Lake Metroparks POI files. It took me many (and I mean many!) laborious hours of using street addresses and Google Earth to build the original files several years ago. I contacted both of those organizations and provided the information that I had gathered and suggested that they include the lat/long information for their locations on their Web sites, and you know what? A few weeks later both did. I don't know if I was the trigger or not; all I know is that it wasn't there, then I asked for it, and it was there. Made me feel good.
In my case, at least, I think that the fact that I provided the original POI information to them was the impetus for them to include GPS information on their sites.

Phil

Unfortunately they are horribly inacurate.

First off, I would venture that a majority of people that buy a GPS have no understanding or knowledge about Custom POIs. This group will never update a map, because they don't know how and think that the roads don't change that much. They are content with the internal POIs and also figure that they don't change much. It's called blissful ignorance.

Addresses might not be all that close, because the city they say they are in, is the city or town where they get their mail. So when you geocode the address, you get something totally wrong.

Last but not least, the calculation of the address is an algorithm and it can be very wrong. If you need to get it right, you have to use something like EPE, go to satellite mode and drag the marker to the site that looks like a car dealership, etc.. If in doubt, I use Google Earth Street View and actually read the signs, if possible.

It's a lot of work for someone that frequents this site, let alone for a company that has no understanding of what it's really like.

The web site purchasers like the slick JAVA enabled drop down type of location service, but if you're going to plan a trip, who knows where you're going to end your 1000 mile trip at day's end? What the heck is my local Zip code anyway? What town is this? IHOP had a choice in their location search that listed all sites. That's a very handy feature for us coders. It gives a total count, and usually a uniform method for addresses. Then there's others that give you ten hits, or a certain radius. Those are the ones that I loathe to update (take notes Advance Auto and Friendly's)...

Hopping off the soap box.

One of my POIs that I maintain is somewhat cumbersome now. It tries to show the local locations as well, and when you go into the "full list" it shows about 20 at a time. When scrolling through the pages, I've noticed that sometimes it will duplicate a few locations, and known locations are left out! Sometimes I have to refresh the page several times to ensure that none are overlooked as I'm scrolling through the states. Frustrating when I'm trying to keep it accurate....

IHOP has joined the list of flashy P-I-T-A to update web sites. They get updated last... :-/

**Addition**

I just drafted a form letter to contact these fine folks in a request for more (read better) information for location searches. See below...


Hello

My name is (your name here). I am a member of POI-Factory.com. (http://www.poi-factory.com/user/223719) As you can see from the web page link I provided, I maintain lists of different restaurants, stores and other destinations with other information that folks can add to their GPS units. The reason we at The Factory take the time to do this (it's all voluntary, by the way) is because the lists that are present on GPS units is notoriously inaccurate. Also the GPS units allow you to do more with the POI files than can be done with the manufacturer provided lists. (For example, with the right software, you can find every location from a POI file along a certain route. Handy when you like donuts. You can find every Dunkin/Krispy Kreme...name your vice...along your planned route) The reason I am writing to you is that I cannot easily get a list of sites from your web site that will permit me to update the list I currently maintain for your organization (http://link here). My free time is limited, and if I can't get a relatively simple way to update this POI file, the data will become stale and motorists won't easily be able to navigate to your properties. Please work with me to get a more useful (for my purposes) list of locations that I can use. In particular, I am looking to use:
Location name
Address (street, city, state, country)
Phone number
Fax number
Hours of Operation
GPS data (if available. If not, I'll get that myself from the provided information)

Thank you for your time.

(signature)

Above sent off to IHOP, Advance Auto and Friendly's. I'll keep you posted on any feedback.

I did a similar email to Kia Canada and asked for a spreadsheet with separate columns for Name, Address, City, Province, Postal Code.

I was amazed when I got exactly what I asked for within 2 weeks. It still took a lot of work, but I was able to import the spreadsheet into EPE and used satellite mode to and sometimes going to the dealers own site to fine tune.

I love your letter and I trust that you won't mind if others "Plagiarize" it. It is very well written and explains something that many businesses would not understand or appreciate otherwise. You combined very subtle threats, with a request for them to work with someone who is asking to partner with them.

"Steal" to your heart's content. We're offering to do some free leg work for them. If they refuse to cooperate, they're just hurting themselves.

Just to make sure that everyone knows, EPE will access Google Street View when looking at a specific POI. As a matter of fact, from the top right part of the top right pane (of the four panes) of EPE's POI Edit dialog, just drag the Yellow" man over the red pointer and you are in "street view"

I missed that fact. This does make things much easier, then surfing into Google Earth and then back. Thanks jgermann.

Not a peep from any of the three...

It's my experience if you do hear anything it will be on the order of "That information is available on our website."

I go back to them and ask when was the last time you accessed the website while driving?

I went to their web site, used the contact page, asked for a list of their stores and about a week or two later they sent me one.

...crickets chirping...

To this day, haven't head a peep from IHOP, Advance Auto or Friendly's... Undecided what I'll do next. Advance has bout 3500 locations. I am NOT going to code them in 100 mile radius circles...

have the audacity to complain the files on the Factory are getting outdated. It makes you wonder who is running these companies. From the customer facing web side it is clearly the IT department. They may know the web and site design but when it comes to service, that's a door they ignore.

I'm taking a road trip from Long Island to Florida....because I can. An extended weekend, so to speak. If and when I stop, I have no clue where I am. If I have the GPS loaded with every location of 'Store X', I don't need to know where I am to get to the nearest location. This small fact is what these 'pretty' web site designers fail to realize. I may not know what town I'm near, and I definitely won't know the ZIP code... The GPS doesn't give a damn about any of that stuff. It's just business, nothing personal. I won't be looking for any Advance Autos, Friendly's or IHOPs on this junket...

Your observations are one I've used in speaking to many companies about the way their sites are designed. Like 99.999% of all people, I don't have access to a web browser while driving so how does the company expect me to find one of their locations when I feel like stopping? When you explain it to them in this manner, some of them light up with the proverbial light bulb above their head and actually "get it." Others say something on the order of you could search before you leave. Then there's always the problem of conducting a search by zip code. I'm sorry, I'll be in Las Vegas next week and I don't know the zip codes other than they start with 8. So just how is a visitor to a city supposed to know the zip code to conduct a search when zip codes are by neighborhood?

Getting to the right person seems to be the problem. This would seem to be a relatively minor task for anyone associated with the website but getting to that someone is problematic. The average "contact" person might think it was a big deal and "can" the request in order to avoid hassling the IT folks.

It isn't a big deal really. Creating a "list" of stores with the proper information and then "print to file" rather than an actual printer would do it.

Still, it is worth trying.

From a similar thread about a year ago:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/39542#comment-323677

It's amazing the Brick Wall you encounter when trying to get a complete list of sites.

I've complained about this before. Go to the Bank of America site:

http://locators.bankofamerica.com/

and see how hard it is to locate them all. It's great for someone that wants to find the ATMs and branches near them, but it is hard work to find them all due to the way the search engine works.

There has to be a way to get through to management that we want to help them get more business.

When I emailed Carlos O'Kelly's they sent me an excel file with all their info except the GPS coordinates. When I finished adding the GPS data to the list I emailed the csv file back to him and received an email back asking for my address, and a few days after sending it to him I received two coupons for free meals, a hat, and an offer for a free lunch on him if I ever went through Kansas City. I thought that was very nice of them to do that.

...between a smaller concern and a bigger corporation: The human touch. I'm not even asking for a Fribble! (A really large, thick and delicious Friendly's shake)

Did you try their android/iPhone app?