Cloning method Discussion Thread: How to install a map update directly to a SD card.

That is interesting mrbel48. The only explanation I can come up with at this point as to why this issue persists on your 885 but not on my 855 is the one hardware/functional difference between the two. And that is the blue tooth hands free calling function. Maybe with the underpowered processor, that function takes it over the edge of what it can handle. I also seldom use a traffic receiver with my 855, so I don't have that overhead.

Sorry to hear this . . . but if misery loves company . . . it may make you feel less alone to know that I had purchased not one, not two, but THREE used 885s and two voice recognition remotes -- with plans to "upgrade" the systems in 3 vehicles.

I'd purchased the Lifetime Update for one of the units, and was close to pulling the trigger for the second when the first began to get squirrelly on me.

I've now officially given up on them . . . as, to me, a Garmin with an old/incorrect map is unacceptable.

The 765s are working out fine for me -- but the screen is not quite as bright as the 885 screen. It's generally readable though, except in the brightest sunlight, when I need to use my hand to shade the screen a bit.

The 765 searches are fast and there are no weird reboots or reversions to Jill's language option, etc.
I'm not familiar with the 2597, but hope that works for you. I'd be leery of the 885 with old maps, unless you dont stray far from home with it.

I'd rather check out how the system works reverting back to a smaller map. I found a set of 2010s online but haven't a clue how to install.

Now that I have to put my maps on my SD card I just hook the GPS up and go that route with MapUpdater.

Is cloning a better way? Is there a reason I should be cloning or is it just as good to do it the way I did?
Mary

If you have backups saved to a computer of your earlier maps, you could go back to an earlier map.

But any City Navigator NA maps available online for downloading will have had the maps unlocked for use with any Garmin device and therefore are pirated genuine Garmin maps hacked to be useful to others. Be very careful before going this route. In any event, you will receive no help here for installing pirated Garmin maps.

My thoughts:

1) The cloning technique is the only way to get a full North America map update as a single map file for devices like my nuvi 855 that aren't auto-offered the map-update-to-SD-card option from Garmin. In my opinion, this is the easiest and best way to update devices of this sort.

2) For devices auto-offered map updates to SD cards as is the case for all the newer devices, the easiest solution is to let Garmin's software install the map update to the card and also update any other files on the nuvi as needed. There are still many here who prefer the clone technique for map updates to Garmin devices that would be automatically offered the update-to-SD installation. The reasoning is that by having two or more SD cards, the new map update can be cloned to a SD card, while the other SD card contains the previous map update. With this method, if the new update fails in some way (not that Garmin would ever offer maps or software updates that fail ), you always have the other SD card with the previous map to use while Garmin scurries to fix the buggy new map. So the clone method offers extra safety of having the old map instantly available for use, but at the expense of the extra effort of doing the clone technique (moving files to an empty SD card, renaming files after the update completes, etc.)

Being lazy, I use the clone technique for my 855 since it's the only way I can get a full map update as a single file, but I use the standard Garmin update (not clone) for my devices that are offered the auto-SD option. There...clear as mud?

Before cloning, I made a full backup of the entire garmin "drive" as it appeared in My Computer, which backup included the 2010 maps within the /Garmin folder, so was able to revert back to them once I recognized that the 2015 maps were bogging down my 885 so as to be be unusable.
Once reloaded with the 2010 maps, the 885 seemed to function normally again.
I know that this does not help you if you no longer have access to the 2010 maps that were unlocked for your Garmin, but may serve as a datapoint.

That said, how exactly did you update to the new maps?
Did you not make a backup first?
Did you update directly to the Garmin's hard drive, thus overwriting the 2010 maps?
Or, since this is a cloning thread, did you use the procedure herein to clone to an SD card, which would have left the 2010 maps intact on your device. If so, simply removing the SD card should boot your device up with the old 2010 maps.

Good point. Wouldn't it be great if rmbel48 could go back to the 2010 map by just pulling the SD card with the current 2015.20 map?

PS—why do I think of Hawaii when I see your username?

This is correct. I tried installing the new 2015.10 map on a 2 GB card and got the "file too large...not enough space" error message. The 2015 map is over 2 GB so I had to install the lower 49 states map instead. So I guess my question is how did you guys get the 2015 map on a 2 GB Card?

Can't be done, at least not the full map, which is now over 2 gigs - 2.4 I think. You gotta use at least a 4.

And if you are also downloading that gimongous JCV file (add another 750MB), then 4 will be pushing it if you want it future-proof . . . so I use an 8 for future expandability on the assumption that the maps will continue to get bigger and bigger every iteration.

Thankfully, gigs are pretty cheap these days - so 8 is not THAT much more than 2 - especially on Amazon.

It is a bastardization of my middle name, Kealoha, which is indeed Hawaiian - this butchering uttered eons ago by a high school buddy who couldn't pronounce the 'real thing' - shortened thereafter to Kimo by others who couldn't even pronounce the butchered version -- - but now in the digital age revivified in full form, glory and original bastardization because the short form Kimo is quite often taken as a username on various 'interweb' fora.

Quiz to follow.

Yes it's like mud that you can see through a little, but I'm not going to worry about it as I am lazy also and mine ask if I want the maps on SD.
So, if it makes no difference, I will keep the lazy way.

My search for old maps began with Garmin, asking if they kept an archive of past maps, alas no. The irony doesn't escape me that I struggle to find a map I can use to replace my legit one that actually functioned in the device, instead of the one Garmin urged me to install in its place -- which rendered the device useless. Sigh.

Sorry to say, I let the Garmin tech guide me through the update without backing up my previous map to my HD, so I have no old map to reuse.

A very well written piece
very useful I did not know this at all
keep up the good job
thank you thank you thank you

Thanks for the information

Thanks

Great info. I may finally update my 855 after a long time of non-use. This procedure will come in handy. Great write-up, Alan.

I used Garmin Express rather than Garmin MapUpdater with cloned devices to do the 2015.40 CN NA update. Express worked flawlessly and handled everything correctly on all 3 of my cloned devices.

As we know, Garmin MapUpdater 3.3.4 does not correctly handle the gmapdem.img file on the 3xxx nuvi models. So I am thinking it is time to retire MapUpdater and change the cloning FAQ to use Garmin Express as the recommended method.

Does anyone want to comment on this before I start making the changes to the FAQ?

Starting with this map update, I'm also switching from GarminMapUpdater to Garmin Express. So far, the new Garmin Express 4.0.11.0 is working well for me and as you say, it preserves the DEM map on devices that offer DEM.

I have used this method once or twice before with success. But things this time are slightly different or I have forgotten something.

Steps 1-9 work fine. I have a JVC folder and moved the file in it to the internal memory folder (replacing the old one).

I power up the Zumo, go to Tools, Settings, Map, Info. I find three entries: CNNA NT 2015.20, 2015.20 3D, 2015.40. All are 'checked'.

1. why is 2015.40 3D missing? Did I miss (moving) some files?
2. should I uncheck the 2015.20 entries?
3. should I (ever) remove the map files from internal memory?
4. what about installing just the U.S. lower-48 on the internal memory (to take up less space and allow more for GPX, logs, tracks, etc)? Then install the full NA on the SD card?

Thanks,
-cj

Some additional information. I also had the following files on the SD card after the install:
GMAP3D.IMG (196 Mb)
GMAP3D.uni (1 Kb)
as well as the JCV folder.

Should they remain? be removed? be moved somewhere on the internal memory?
-cj

@cj02139 ... Did you use the cloning method to install the 2015.40 map?

You definitely have some mismatched map files and some missing files for the 2015.40 map update.

Tell us more about the method you used to do the map update.

Edit: I missed that you referred to "steps 1-9", so that tells me you used cloning for the map update.

I am not familiar with the file layout on the zumo 660. Does the zumo 660 use the .system folder or do the maps end up in the Garmin folder when you run the map update? If you could provide me a list of all the .img, .gma and .unl file names and dates on both internal storage and SD card along with what folders they are in, I can probably help you sort this out.

As we wait for the answers, can we safely say that the older map should be unchecked for best results with the zumo? I see a conflict if the zumo is trying to use two versions of the same map simultaneously.

Is it possible that only one GMAP3D.img file is allowed, including both the zumo's internal storage and SD card?

It would certainly be worth a try CraigW. On my nuvi's when 2 CN NA maps are present (one on SD and one internal), They don't both show up in Map Info ... it always loads the newest one and ignores the older one. But this behavior is apparently model dependent, because I have seen other reports of 2 map versions showing.

In any case, I suspect you should do a full reboot (not sleep mode restart) after you uncheck the older map version.

I followed the instructions a year or so ago for a prior version. I used them twice in the last two days for the current map version. All were successful. In order to be certain of my answers, I decided to do it again (using a USB stick). It does not work (more on this in a follow-up post). So I'll try to provide the answers from memory.

When finished I had these three files:
* gmapprom.img
* gmapprom.gma
* gmapprom.unl
I also had
* GMAP3D.IMG (196 Mb)
* GMAP3D.uni (1 Kb)
and a folder named JVC containing a single file.

To the best of my memory, that is all.

What I did is:
1. I renamed the 3 map files as described.
2. I replaced the contents of the JVC file in the Zumo internal memory with what was installed on the SD card, then removed that folder from the SD card.
3. I replaced the GMAP3D.IMG in the Zumo internal memory with that which was installed on the SD card, then removed both 3D files from the SD card.

After doing the above I put the SD card into the Zumo 660 and turned it on. I went to Tools, System, Map, Map Info. This time I had 2015.40, 2015.40 3D, 2015.20 - all of which were checked. I unchecked 2015.20

So, it "looks like" things are all OK. Perhaps you could update your FAQ with information about the Zumo 660 (It would be nice to get corroboration from someone else, too).

-------------

Information and Assumption:
The internal memory of the Z660 is 4GB. The 2015.20 map file is 2.073GB. So it seems there is enough physical space for a >2Gb file. And it would seem that the Z660's operating software can read and load a map file >2GB.

Questions:
With the FAQ process, I have 2015.20 in internal storage and am not using it.
If I had installed directly to the Z660, would MapUpdater have removed 2015.20 and replaced it with 2015.40?
If I copy/rename the 2015.40 files appropriately, could I manually replace the 2015.20 files in internal memory with the 2015.40 files?

I will follow this post with my sudden issue of MapUpdater and Garmin Express not finding the clone SD card or USB stick.

-cj

Edit 5/2/15: removing embarrassing section due to operator error.

Garmin Express
So then, based upon the good comments made by alandb and Craig just prior to my first post above, I download Garmin Express. Big Mistake! [snip]

The big mistake? I cannot uninstall Garmin Express. It *does not* show up in the Add/Delete Programs window! Some internet search shows this to be a problem others have faced. I find a special microsoft tool and am getting rid of it one component at a time. See this Garmin forum post for details: https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?39477-Latest-Garmin...

I suggest that you do *not* recommend Garmin Express yet - at least on Windows.

-cj

I'm running the above version on my Windows 7 laptop and do see it within the Add/Delete programs window. Interesting that it'll show for some and not others ~ another Garmin mystery ~

Thanks for the info.....I am with you about GE. I am one of the few that has not installed it. Just a note....the Microsoft link to get the delete program on the link noted here is a dead link.

Both worked for me just now, but here they are again.

Link to Garmin Forum:
https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?39477-Latest-Garmin...

Link to Microsoft FixIt program:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/mats/program_install_and...

@cj02139 ... I'm glad you were able to get the 2015.40 map successfully installed to the SD card. Here are a couple of responses to points you made in your posts:

You might want to remove the .img, .gma, .unl and .jcv files from internal storage for the old map. No reason to leave them there if you nuvi is working correctly with the new map.

Even though your zumo has 4 GB, there may not be room for the full NA map in internal storage. It does still fit on my 4 GB nuvi 755T, but it is very tight on space and I have deleted all unused voice, vehicle, text and help files. I suspect your zumo has even less available space than the nuvi because of bluetooth support and other additional functions contained on the zumo. That said, the answer to your question is "Yes, you can copy the files back to the zumo from the SD card if there is sufficient space. You will want to rename the files back to their original gmapprom name."

It is sad to hear that you had an issue with Garmin Express, Many of us on this forum have had problems with earlier versions of Express, but the current version seems to be working well for most of us. In fact I had intended to update the Cloning FAQ to reflect using Express instead of Map Updater. But your issue with Express may cause me to rethink that decision.

As cj has just indicated, the links work for me too. Tried in IE, Chrome and Firefox - all work.

Having worked with computers for most of my life, I can't tell you how many times I have cursed a program only to later find that it was "operator error" or as the great philosopher Pogo said: "We have met the enemy, and he is us"

Why does this happen so often?

Well, it is likely because we expect every program to work in every circumstance - REGARDLESS OF WHAT ELSE IS HAPPENING ON OUR COMPUTER.

There really is a reason why so many software packages tell you to close all other programs before proceeding with the installation of their software. That reason is conflicts that arise when the computer tries to do multiple things.

YES, I do know that computers are built to multi-task - but we are talking about mucking around (writing to) the registry when installing programs - and that opens issues. How often have you closed other running programs before proceeding? Never? Thought so.

It would be interesting if all those who curse GE would just try working with a relatively quiescent computer. Maybe they would avoid the problems that arise when a "message" is covered up by another program that just grabbed focus. The message wants a reply from you and waits while you say that the program has hung up?

One of the reasons I run several utility programs at least once a week is to see if I have done myself in by acting to quickly or without really looking. I use AutoRuns to see what packages have decided to put themselves in "startup" and then decide whether I really want them to be there.

I really do not want the "Adobe Updater Startup Utility" to fire off every time I restart my computer. Nor do I want "ItunesHelper", or the "RealNetWorks Scheduler", and several others.

I do not want the "IntuitUpdateServiceV4" to run after I file my taxes with TurboTax, but Intuit has set this service up to run all the time. Maybe you need the "iPod hardware management services" running all the time, but I don't.

We already know about GE wanting to run in startup, and as a "Service". I use AutoRuns to keep this from happening until I want it too.

I run Revo Uninstaller regularly to do nothing more that look to see what software was installed in the last week. I keep the listing Revo gives me in Descending Date order of software installation so I can see if there is a program that shows up that I really did not want or mean to install. As a side note - if you really want to properly uninstall programs, you ought to use Revo in "Advanced" mode.

I also regularly run CCleaner to keep my computer healthy.

I have found that when I install software it works better when I right click on the executable that I am about to run and choose "Run as Administrator".

I did an update using the current GE and experienced NO problem on my 2797LMT. Then using my SD card for my 855LMT I am updating to 2016,10 as I write this.

BTW I more or less followed your instructions to a T, but at the end I do NOT delete the GarminDevice.xml but rather rename the SD card to Garmin SD as a means of identification. Works fine for me Alanb.

On my recent trip to Europe I had the older European 2010.10 map in the internal memory and the NA 2015.40 on an SD card.
In my observation there did not seem to be problem other than manually selecting Europe instead of North America.

The one problem I have run into with not deleting the GarminDevice.xml is that if there is a firmware update for your Nuvi, starting up Garmin Express will find the old file, see that the firmware needs updating and attempt to update the firmware on the card where there isn't any firmware to update.

That's not a critical issue but an annoyance that you don't need to deal with by just deleting the file, especially if you follow alanb's procedures and install the current GarminDevice.xml from the Nuvi before the next map update, anyway.

is that there are many ways to adapt and tailor the cloning method and accomplish a successful map update if you understand the Garmin map update concepts. If you are unsure, just follow the procedure as written and it will work.

OK, I gave this method a try for the first time with NA2016.1. Seemed to work fine on my ancient 765T. However, now the unit seems to occasionally pause and freeze for a second or two, particularly when a turn or a junction view is about to appear. Seems to be a bit more pronounced than it was when the maps were stored in internal memory. Is this normal for maps stored on the SD card? I did clear the trip log, and may try a hard reset next. Haven't done that in a while.

Thanks!

There could be some performance hit when the nuvi is pulling data from the SD card instead of internal memory. That said, I have done some testing of running my 755T with all map files on SD and I didn't notice any difference. I do however try to keep as much on internal memory as possible. So far on my 755T, I can still get the entire map and JCV file in internal memory, so I only use the SD card for MP3 files. I realize the 765T has bluetooth features and therefore probably has less space available than the 755T. One thing you could try is to put the map files back on internal memory and just keep the JCV file on SD.

I've done the clone method twice on my 755T with the 2015.40 and 2016.10 maps. I renamed the three files as the instructions indicate and the GPS does have the new maps after booting with the SD card.

However, the 3D Map still shows up as 2015.30 (the last time that I did a map update without the clone method). The 3DMap files on the SD card were updated when I upgraded to the 2016.10 maps (based on time/date stamps). Do I need to delete the 3Dmap files off the unit and copy the ones from the SD card onto the device?

Is the file GMAP3D.img in the \Garmin folder of the SD card with the same date as the 2016.10 Gmapsupp map files? If so, try temporarily renaming the old GMAP3D.img in internal storage to something like GMAP3D.old. If that works, you can either leave it that way or delete the old file.

Yes, the GMap3D.img in the \Garmin folder on the SD card has the same date/time as the 2016.10 GMapsupp files. I'll try the renaming of the gmap3d on the internal storage and report back. Thanks for the information.

I was able to clone my Nuvi 660 to an SD card, but it failed to work when subsequently inserted into the Nuvi 660

With Google's help, I found that the Nuvi 660 is unable to handle map files that are more than 2gb (http://tinyurl.com/ort54vy).

After installing SD in 660, no maps are listed in the Map> Map Info (which is grayed out).

Glad you got it figured out HeloCaptiain. This limitation which applies to certain older models of nuvi and Street Pilot has been discussed many times in the forum and is documented in this FAQ: http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42561.

What you need to do is use Garmin Express to install a partial map to the internal storage of your nuvi and install the full continent map (NA or Europe) to the computer, then run MapInstall to install the remaining regions to the SD as a supplemental map, making sure that both map segments are less than 2 GB. That way you can get access to the full map from your 660. See this FAQ for more information: http://www.poi-factory.com/node/31185

For my Zumo 660 I did the following after step #9:

**** zumo 660 **** Look for file gmaptz.img in the \Garmin folder of the SD card. If it is present, plug your zumo back into the computer and copy or move this file to the \Garmin folder of the device, replacing the existing file with the new file. In addition to the map files in step 9 above, you will also find three ‘gmap3d’ files and the JCV folder. These files can remain on the SD card and not moved to the device.

-ceej

It sounds like the zumo 660 works like the nuvi 7x5 series, so I have updated the cloning procedure steps 11 and 12 to include the zumo 660 in those steps.

I have an old Street Pilot c320 would there be a way I could add current maps to a SD card and use it in this old of a unit?

I don't believe that model supports mass storage mode via a USB connection, so AFAIK, the cloning method will not work.

Ill try it again..

thanks