Dedicated GPS vs Smartphone GPS Debate

 

I know this topic has been discussed ad nausium and some great information has been put out, especially those incredibly informative articles by Gadgetguy.
I recently upgraded my phone to a Droid X by Motorola. I love the phone and was anxious to try the GPS apps that were available.
I own a Garmin 265wt and love it but felt that there might be something to the premise that smartphone GPS apps are always up-to-date as far as their map data and POIs are concerned.
Last weekend I tried an experiment. I ran both the Droid Navigation app on the smartphone and also ran my 265wt side by side. I live in Portland and had never visited the Mt. St. Helens visitor centers. I decided to do this field trip to see the interesting sites, but more, to see what the two GPS units would do.
I was, at first, pleasantly surprised by the accuracy of the Droid app. It presented a very intuitive display and I enjoyed the audible directions more than those given on the Garmin.
Everything was great with both units until I began to get to the edge of cell coverage. Then, things went downhill fast with the phone.
The route display became blurry when there was no cell coverage, as if to say, "we're doing our best but are sort of lost". There were no audible directions given during this time. The only audible alerts were telling me that service had been lost.
The Garmin, however, just kept chugging along, giving directions and audible ques and got me to the various points of interest along the route.
So, the jury, in my mind, is still out on this question. I'd like to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience.

--
John Feraud Sr. Fairview, Oregon U.S.A.
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you're right

It has been discussed ad nauseam.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

Couple of tricks...

I've been using my Droid here in the Willamette Valley pretty much everyday for the past 2 weeks. I've not experienced the problem you're talking about, in fact, in doing a side-by-side test myself with my Droid and my Nuvi 765, I went up some logging roads about 12 miles from my house. about 1 mile up the road, I lost cell signal, but I continued to drive a 20 mile loop and the Droid (using the Google Nav app) performed flawlessly--even showing the numbers of each logging road! Another great feature is to turn on the Satellite layer, so that instead of driving to an animated map, you're actually driving to the Satellite image which shows amazing detail!

At first, I did not understand how the Droid could have kept me navigating when I was out of cell phone range--even though it was getting a strong GPS signal. then I realized that the "tiles" that Google uses for their map compression are roughly 30 square miles in size. Given that I had used my Droid to follow a route home earlier that day, the needed map tiles were already cached on my Droid. So, when I took off on my trip through the woods, I just so happens that I stayed within the map tiles that were already loaded into my Droid.

There are a couple easy solutions to the problem of navigating outside of cell range:

1. plan a route to where you are going while you are still in cell range and all the map tiles you need for your trip are loaded onto your Droid.

2. download apps like Navigon and Co-pilot from the Droid app store that load all the maps for the U.S. right onto your Droid--this is after all how the PND GPS devices work, you install the maps and then use the GPs antenna to show where you are on those maps.

3. lastly, I understand that the next Google Maps update will allow the option of caching all the map tiles for the state that you'll be driving in, or, all the map tiles for 100 mile corridor for your planned route so that if you need to make a detour and you're not in cell range you'll already have the maps on your Droid.

Hope this helps!

NP

--
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...

.

Unbelievable. There are tons of posts on this site detailing the fact that web based nav apps will obviously fail if you lose cell coverage, and yet the OP is surprised when just such a thing occurs.

The solution is to purchase a phone based nav app which stores the maps on your phone. They continue to operate even if you lose cell coverage.

I don't know why I waste my time on this site repeating the same things over and over.

Did you actually read the OP's first paragraph

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

Unbelievable. There are tons of posts on this site detailing the fact that web based nav apps will obviously fail if you lose cell coverage, and yet the OP is surprised when just such a thing occurs.

The solution is to purchase a phone based nav app which stores the maps on your phone. They continue to operate even if you lose cell coverage.

I don't know why I waste my time on this site repeating the same things over and over.

Did you actually read the OP's first paragraph before castigating the guy?

Some of us might actually like to also hear about other peoples experiences and observations related to this subject.

--
GM Built-in Navigation system - Samsung S6 Edge+ Smartphone with Garmin Viago, Google Maps & HERE Apps

That's good to know!

ORnonprophet wrote:

3. lastly, I understand that the next Google Maps update will allow the option of caching all the map tiles for the state that you'll be driving in, or, all the map tiles for 100 mile corridor for your planned route so that if you need to make a detour and you're not in cell range you'll already have the maps on your Droid.

I guess if you wander more than 100 miles off of your route, obtaining a GPS signal is the least of your problems.

Maybe in such an instance, remembering that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west will be sufficient for heading towards the nearest ocean. smile

.

rjrsw wrote:

Did you actually read the OP's first paragraph before castigating the guy?

Some of us might actually like to also hear about other peoples experiences and observations related to this subject.

Yes, I read the OP's entire post. But if the OP had indeed read the smartphone threads on this forum he would have already known that his web based nav app wouldn't work if he lost cell coverage.

EVERY day I see the same comments on this site. Its like people complaining about not being able to turn on the lights even though they know the power is out! Well duh!

Let me repeat myself again for those who can't seem to grasp the concept: if you are going to use a nav app and there's the slightest chance you might be driving in an area with poor cell coverage, then purchase a nav app which stores the maps directly on your phone.

Problem solved.

This topic has been

This topic has been discussed and will continue being discussed because both sides are convinced that they are right and the other side is wrong. In the debate I've tried to be consistent on my point of view, that smartphones aren't yet ready to take over for a dedicated unit. But at the same time smartphone GPS apps are showing consistent improvement, so it will only be a matter of time before the smartphone GPS apps do render the consumer GPS receivers virtually obsolete.

I don't see people complaining. I do see people firmly entrenched in their points of view and unwilling to see the other side. The reality is that regardless of all the discussion back and forth on this, technology is going to march on and dedicated consumer GPS receivers will become obsolete. So, you either adapt or be left behind.

In the end, it's your choice which way to go. No amount of discussion will change that.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Both can be used

Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

In the end, it's your choice which way to go. No amount of discussion will change that.

In a nutshell. And for my 2 cents worth, on a trip of any distance I'd probably pull out the Garmin but on a short trip the other day when I wasn't too sure how the route I was on connected to streets I knew it's a lot easier and quicker to just open the app on the phone. They can both have their role to fill.

Interesting

Ad nauseum, yes. But I haven't come across enough side-by-side experiments. Thanks! smile

--
nüvi 750 & 760

Thanks, and No thanks

Thanks to ORnonprophet's informative answer.

No thanks to the posters that added quite a bit of worthless verbage to yet another thread a newb has to sort through, assuming he/she can manage to guess which topic is applicable.

A simple, concise answer works best. Ever seen a post about which to use-gpx or csv? Or search threads for the topic?

Sounds to me like you should lobby for and create an faq on the subject, GadgetGuy2008.

--
It's about the Line- If a line can be drawn between the powers granted and the rights retained, it would seem to be the same thing, whether the latter be secured by declaring that they shall not be abridged, or that the former shall not be extended.

GPS vs Smartfone

There are navigation apps that doesn't require cellular connection so when you out of coverage the navigation still on.

Guess I didn't see all the posts!

Sorry Gadgetguy, I didn't mean to frustrate you. I guess I should have realized that I would have issues with the phone if I lost cell signal. Probably, in the back of my mind, I did.
I wasn't aware of which apps would allow me to load maps to my phone. I may have left the fact out of my post that I had only had my phone 3 days before launching out on my fieldtrip.
Anyway, I repeat myself that I think the information you have provided to this forum is incredible. I will make it a point to dive into it more deeply so I don't waste the forum's time with questions about info already out there.

--
John Feraud Sr. Fairview, Oregon U.S.A.

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jferaud - there's no need to apologize. You're learning about gps/POIs and that's the whole point of this forum.

Anyway, here's a thread which lists many of the android gps apps http://www.poi-factory.com/node/31767 You want an app which is not cloud based.

I personally use CoPilot as my backup phone-based app. It only costs $5 and has a ton of features. But for day-to-day driving I use the google app because its easier to use than CoPilot and the maps are a little more accurate.

Verizon losing signal?

Verizon losing signal? Unthinkable!!!

/saracastic wink

--
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/21626 - red light cameras do not work

using GPS android and loving it!

for some time me and wife were fighting for right to have the GPS in the car, I eventually left her with it as she needs it more than I do wink

then we upgraded our phones and I started using HTC Vision (T-mobile G2) with Google Maps (Navigation app) ... geeez!!! it's so awesome I prefer using it over our older Garmin 275 smile

bought a windshield mounting bracket for phone and car charger and just love using it with all the joined features of a phone, bluetooth, GPS and what not whenever I need it... best thing I always have it with me! smile

Tested the GPS during road trip from NJ to VA and DC and I loved the option of selecting different routes easily, it shows distance and calculated travel time (traffic delays included), it even allows to avoid tolls (my garmin can't do that!) while still staying on highways as long as possible wink

--
Garmin nuvi 2595LMT; Android 5.0 (Samsung GS3)

I use

TomTom USA on my iPhone and it does not depend on a cellular connection to navigate.

--
If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else. - Yogi Berra

Phone too small

My son's Droid was handy for navigation once, working through the Garmin screens was waiting too long as was it's "boot up and find satellites" routine. But for typical use, the small screen of a phone is a major disadvantage to me. My fingers are too big for my nuvi. My phone (Blackberry) needs too much attention for button pushing while driving. I would not want to carry a phone as big as my nuvi. And I don't really want to have to change my phone to a new mount every time I get in the car. It is super simple to go to my car, get in, have the phone link to the nuvi, and then have navigation, phone calls, and music coming out of my car speakers. A phone may be able to do all this, but it will do it on a little screen my eyes have trouble with sometimes, without having to deal with driving at the same time. For a couple hundred dollars I can afford the luxury of the GPS.

Dedicated GPS

Dedicated GPS is the only way to go. Now Im sure the phones will catch up! But until then Garmin all the way.

--
Nuvi 660. Nuvi 40 Check out. www.houserentalsorlando.com Irish Saying. A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest.

What ever works the best for you

They both have advantages and disadvantages that both side will tear apart. So what ever works for you and you situation is the best solution for you to use. As for the smartphone side, be sure to have a download app that does not depend on a cell signal. Even if it is not the most up to date it will at least get you to someplace that may be able to give better directions.

Dedicated GPS vs Smartphone GPS Debate

You Smartphone fanatics are forgetting one SMALL thing: Smartphones MUST be able to connect to BOTH cell sites ("the cloud") AND satelites to navigate you.

Stand alone navigators need ONLY connect to satelites to navigate you.

Satelites have MUCH WIDER accessibility than cell towers.

For instance, I travel a lot in a motorhome - many times to areas beyond cell tower range. My Garmin is worth it's weight in gold when cell towers are out of range.

No No NO

974pgn wrote:

You Smartphone fanatics are forgetting one SMALL thing: Smartphones MUST be able to connect to BOTH cell sites ("the cloud") AND satelites to navigate you.

NO NO NO, you're wrong. (For the 1 millionth time.) smile

Actually smartphones do a better job, because on top of the GPS chips they have, when in an area with poor GPS reception they utilize cell phone tower triangulation.

--
If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else. - Yogi Berra

Completely Untrue...

974pgn wrote:

You Smartphone fanatics are forgetting one SMALL thing: Smartphones MUST be able to connect to BOTH cell sites ("the cloud") AND satelites to navigate you.

Wrong, wrong, WRONG!

You do NOT need to be in cell phone range to navigate with a smartphone any more than you have to be in cell phone range to navigate with your Garmin PND.

You download the maps to your smartphone (just like you do with your PND) and then you use the built-in GPS receiver to navigate (just like with your PND).

However unlike your PND which depends solely upon satellites to get an initial fix upon start-up, my Droid also uses aGPS to acquire a fix MUCH faster than my handheld Garmins do....

NP

--
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...

Impossible to compare

What GPS are you going to compare against what smartphone?

It is impossible to compare these two products.

--
GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

?

diesel wrote:

What GPS are you going to compare against what smartphone?

It is impossible to compare these two products.

Why do you say that? It's quite easy to compare them, I've been driving around for over 2 weeks with both my Droid and my Nuvi 765T mounted to the windshield comparing them at every turn....

While I've had the Nuvi 765T for 2 years and it's been a very good GPS, I much prefer my smartphone for numerous reasons.....I will likely keep it in the car as a backup, but when it dies or gets stolen I'm pretty much done with PND's unless Garmin and the other GPS makers radically change both their pricing structure and their bumbling, user-unfriendly proprietary operating systems and map databases...

NP

NP

--
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...

Why? Are you serious?

The GPS market is divided into many segments, and the smartphone market is also divided into many segments. What segment of the GPS market corresponds to what segment of the smartphone market? Please don't attempt to answer.

I doubt a smartphone GPS function can come close to a GPSMAP60CSx, or the new Montana. I prefer my 60CSx to my iPhone3G, and I've tried a couple GPS apps.

For most of the automotive users, maybe a smartphone is equivalent to the nuvis and other mid-range GPS units. But I doubt a smartphone comes close to a 60CSx class GPS, or newer such as the Montana.

A GPS is far more useful than just in a car. I wouldn't use a smartphone where I use my waterproof 60CSx such as hiking, biking, kayaking, etc. in the rain, sweating, etc.

Furthermore, I was on a x-country road trip two years ago and there was no cell service for days. Smartphone was useless. GPS was priceless.

--
GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

Totally Serious.....

diesel wrote:

I doubt a smartphone GPS function can come close to a GPSMAP60CSx, or the new Montana. I prefer my 60CSx to my iPhone3G, and I've tried a couple GPS apps.

Different strokes for different folks. A $40 Otterbox for a smartphone will provide essentially the same protection for a smartphone as you get with most PND's. Yes, if you're really in extreme conditions, and PND is still your best choice--for now.

Quote:

For most of the automotive users, maybe a smartphone is equivalent to the nuvis and other mid-range GPS units. But I doubt a smartphone comes close to a 60CSx class GPS, or newer such as the Montana.

It would be interesting to see side by side tests. I think many people would be shocked by the results.....

Quote:

A GPS is far more useful than just in a car. I wouldn't use a smartphone where I use my waterproof 60CSx such as hiking, biking, kayaking, etc. in the rain, sweating, etc.

I do all of those activities and then some (snowmobiling, x-country skiing, white-water rafting, fly fishing....) Again, a $40 Otterbox offers full protection for a smartphone--possibly better than what you get with a PND because you can easily remove a smartphone from a waterproof housing to change the battery, SIM card, etc, as opposed to sending it in to Garmin. In addition, in many of the locations I frequent I am able many times to get a cell phone signal, so that if an emergency comes up (which happens often with these types of activities) I can call for help. Try calling 911 with your 60CSX or Montana......

Quote:

Furthermore, I was on a x-country road trip two years ago and there was no cell service for days. Smartphone was useless. GPS was priceless.

Maybe you hadn't heard, but you don't need a cell phone signal for a smartphone to do a great job navigating!

NP

--
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...

Thanks Fellow Oregonian

ORnonprophet, Thanks for your input. Also thanks for the app tips. Your info was very helpful.

Gadgetguy2008, Thanks for letting me know where to look for your Android app recommendations. I read it before, awhile back, but had not been able to find it again. Thanks again for all your great info.

--
John Feraud Sr. Fairview, Oregon U.S.A.

Not so!

ORnonprophet wrote:

Different strokes for different folks. A $40 Otterbox for a smartphone will provide essentially the same protection for a smartphone as you get with most PND's. Yes, if you're really in extreme conditions, and PND is still your best choice--for now.

From the Otterbox website:
Environmental Protection:
Case provides added protection against bump, shock, drop and dust intrusion. Case is NOT protective against water.

That's a blanket statement for every series case manufactured. The first sentence in the statement may change slightly, but they all state: Case is NOT protective against water.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

ok....

Box Car wrote:
ORnonprophet wrote:

Different strokes for different folks. A $40 Otterbox for a smartphone will provide essentially the same protection for a smartphone as you get with most PND's. Yes, if you're really in extreme conditions, and PND is still your best choice--for now.

From the Otterbox website:
Environmental Protection:
Case provides added protection against bump, shock, drop and dust intrusion. Case is NOT protective against water.

That's a blanket statement for every series case manufactured. The first sentence in the statement may change slightly, but they all state: Case is NOT protective against water.

From the Otterbox website: "The "innovative spirit" of founder and CEO Curt Richardson has promoted the development of our product lines from waterproof boxes into four lines of device-specific cases for today's hottest technologies.

Similar to an otter's fur, our original line of cases is waterproof. So to incorporate that element with the fun and playful disposition of the animal our CEO and his wife came up with the name OtterBox while brainstorming company names during a drive to Denver, Colo."

Otterbox is famous for waterproof boxes--much like Pelican is for waterproof cases.

What I said is: "An Otterbox will provide essentially the same protection for a smartphone as you get with most PND's."

That statement is true. Most PND's are NOT waterproof, but they do provided dust and shock protection--just like Otterboxes do.

There are waterproof cases available for smartphones, PND's, ipads, etc. for about $25.

NP

--
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...

From an earlier post - by ORNONPOPHET

ORnonprophet wrote:
Box Car wrote:
ORnonprophet wrote:

Different strokes for different folks. A $40 Otterbox for a smartphone will provide essentially the same protection for a smartphone as you get with most PND's. Yes, if you're really in extreme conditions, and PND is still your best choice--for now.

From the Otterbox website:
Environmental Protection:
Case provides added protection against bump, shock, drop and dust intrusion. Case is NOT protective against water.

That's a blanket statement for every series case manufactured. The first sentence in the statement may change slightly, but they all state: Case is NOT protective against water.

From the Otterbox website: "The "innovative spirit" of founder and CEO Curt Richardson has promoted the development of our product lines from waterproof boxes into four lines of device-specific cases for today's hottest technologies.

Similar to an otter's fur, our original line of cases is waterproof. So to incorporate that element with the fun and playful disposition of the animal our CEO and his wife came up with the name OtterBox while brainstorming company names during a drive to Denver, Colo."

Otterbox is famous for waterproof boxes--much like Pelican is for waterproof cases.

What I said is: "An Otterbox will provide essentially the same protection for a smartphone as you get with most PND's."

That statement is true. Most PND's are NOT waterproof, but they do provided dust and shock protection--just like Otterboxes do.

There are waterproof cases available for smartphones, PND's, ipads, etc. for about $25.

NP

Lol! How well would your PND work without a "case?"

Droid Otterbox for $40 (waterproof, dustproof) AA battery adapter <$10.....

NP [emphasis added]

NONE as in exactly ZERO of the Droid cases by OtterBox are stated as protecting against water. The Montana unit, along with several other Garmin units are classified as "waterproof" as in being protected against weather and for many hiking and boating units even against submersion.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

nice try

Sorry, but the otterbox will not make a smartphone environmentally equivalent to standards such as IPX7 or IPX8.

If I am going to use a GPS for just about anything outside of a car, it has to be at least IPX7 compliant, such as many PNDs, like the GPSMAP60/62/76/78, Montana, etc. The otterbox doesn't meet that specification for smartphones such as the iPhone and Droid. The otterbox site does not say waterproof for smartphone applications.

Here's what the otterbox site says: "Case provides added protection against bump, shock, drop and dust intrusion. Case is NOT protective against water."

--
GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

When the rubber meets the road....

diesel wrote:

Sorry, but the otterbox will not make a smartphone environmentally equivalent to standards such as IPX7 or IPX8.

If I am going to use a GPS for just about anything outside of a car, it has to be at least IPX7 compliant, such as many PNDs, like the GPSMAP60/62/76/78, Montana, etc. The otterbox doesn't meet that specification for smartphones such as the iPhone and Droid. The otterbox site does not say waterproof for smartphone applications.

Here's what the otterbox site says: "Case provides added protection against bump, shock, drop and dust intrusion. Case is NOT protective against water."

Yes, and Garmin replaced my GPSMap76 3 times because their "waterproof" housing failed......the weak link to a "waterproof" housing will always be the battery compartment--that's where my 76's failed.

On the other hand, I've used $25 dollar "waterproof" carriers for my PND's and VHF radios in extreme conditions (i.e. Alaskan winters, kayaking/white water rafting, etc.) and NEVER had one of those units allow water intrusion.

For $500+ the Montana should be waterproof, but I'd want to take a close look at the battery compartment seal...

NP

--
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...

Hmmm...

Box Car wrote:
ORnonprophet wrote:
Box Car wrote:
ORnonprophet wrote:

Different strokes for different folks. A $40 Otterbox for a smartphone will provide essentially the same protection for a smartphone as you get with most PND's. Yes, if you're really in extreme conditions, and PND is still your best choice--for now.

From the Otterbox website:
Environmental Protection:
Case provides added protection against bump, shock, drop and dust intrusion. Case is NOT protective against water.

That's a blanket statement for every series case manufactured. The first sentence in the statement may change slightly, but they all state: Case is NOT protective against water.

From the Otterbox website: "The "innovative spirit" of founder and CEO Curt Richardson has promoted the development of our product lines from waterproof boxes into four lines of device-specific cases for today's hottest technologies.

Similar to an otter's fur, our original line of cases is waterproof. So to incorporate that element with the fun and playful disposition of the animal our CEO and his wife came up with the name OtterBox while brainstorming company names during a drive to Denver, Colo."

Otterbox is famous for waterproof boxes--much like Pelican is for waterproof cases.

What I said is: "An Otterbox will provide essentially the same protection for a smartphone as you get with most PND's."

That statement is true. Most PND's are NOT waterproof, but they do provided dust and shock protection--just like Otterboxes do.

There are waterproof cases available for smartphones, PND's, ipads, etc. for about $25.

NP

Lol! How well would your PND work without a "case?"

Droid Otterbox for $40 (waterproof, dustproof) AA battery adapter <$10.....

NP [emphasis added]

NONE as in exactly ZERO of the Droid cases by OtterBox are stated as protecting against water. The Montana unit, along with several other Garmin units are classified as "waterproof" as in being protected against weather and for many hiking and boating units even against submersion.

Box, you seem obsessed with coming up with some kind of "Gotcha!" moment and/or personal attacks against me for my opinions on smartphones vs PND's and I'm just not interested in engaging with people who exhibit that kind of behavior....

NP

--
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...

Really?

diesel wrote:

Sorry, but the otterbox will not make a smartphone environmentally equivalent to standards such as IPX7 or IPX8.

If I am going to use a GPS for just about anything outside of a car, it has to be at least IPX7 compliant....

Really? Why would you need waterproof standards to use a PND outside of your car? That doesn't make much sense unless you're expecting a flood.......lol!

As I stated before, if you're using a handheld GPS for a 2 week sea kayak trip around the San Juan islands, you're going to be better off using a waterproof handheld over a smartphone. You CAN use the smartphone just fine however, and that was my point.

NP

--
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...

.

ORnonprophet - you're wasting your time arguing with these folks. Most members on this site have an almost fanatical view of Garmin and don't want to hear that there is new technology which will make their Garmins obsolete.

What really cracks me up is all of the people chiming in on this topic who don't even own smartphones. For example, BoxCar is one of the most vocal "opponents" against smartphones and I don't think he/she even owns a smartphone!! How can you be opposed to something if you've never even used it???

And all of the people who keep repeating the same false information about smartphones - "can't use gps apps without cell coverage", "can't view screen in daylight", "battery dies quickly", etc. The majority have never even used a smartphone and are just repeating rumors.

I few months ago I thought this site would embrace a smartphone forum because its the natural evolution of gps. But its clear that the vocal majority on this site just want to protect their old Garmin technology. So be it.

Navigon on an iPad

We have a NUVI 5000 that we have used satisfactorily on many trips. We also have a smart phone and an iPad 2. The reasons for owning each device are not related in any way.

I bought the Navigon App just to compare it with my NUVI 5000. It also fits nicely in the console in my Honda Pilot.

If the Navigon software allowed me to add custom POIs, the 5000 would be history. I really like and use the custom POIs. If the 5000 fails for some reason, I will not buy a replacement.

--
iMac 20", 10.5.6, NUVI 5000

Well, you're not correct here

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

What really cracks me up is all of the people chiming in on this topic who don't even own smartphones. For example, BoxCar is one of the most vocal "opponents" against smartphones and I don't think he/she even owns a smartphone!! How can you be opposed to something if you've never even used it???

I do own a smartphone, and have used one for about 8 years off and on. The technology still has a LONG way to go. How many remember the SX-66 - one of the first to have Internet access and do more than pull email?

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

Agreed

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

ORnonprophet - you're wasting your time arguing with these folks. Most members on this site have an almost fanatical view of Garmin and don't want to hear that there is new technology which will make their Garmins obsolete.

What really cracks me up is all of the people chiming in on this topic who don't even own smartphones. For example, BoxCar is one of the most vocal "opponents" against smartphones and I don't think he/she even owns a smartphone!! How can you be opposed to something if you've never even used it???

And all of the people who keep repeating the same false information about smartphones - "can't use gps apps without cell coverage", "can't view screen in daylight", "battery dies quickly", etc. The majority have never even used a smartphone and are just repeating rumors.

I few months ago I thought this site would embrace a smartphone forum because its the natural evolution of gps. But its clear that the vocal majority on this site just want to protect their old Garmin technology. So be it.

Yeah, like I said in another thread, if there were paper map forums when GPS's came along, I'm sure the vast majority of them would dismiss the GPS units (too expensive, unreliable, battery hogs, expensive map updates, blah blah blah) and I'm sure they had a chip on their shoulder about "those new-fangled electronic maps and all those people thinking they're next great thing" and so it is here too for some folks when it comes to moving forward with smartphones and their many, many advantages over PND's. One of the great ironies is that whether they are using a smartphone or not it's crystal clear that the growing momentum is moving towards smartphones over GPS and that those people who choose to stick with a PND are reaping the many benefits that Google's entry into the navigation world is creating.

Like I said, I'll wager serious money that within 2 years, the majority of folks here will be using a smartphone/tablet as their primary GPS, and within 5 years well over 80% will be.

In the mean time, at least we can chime in on threads and clear up some of the misinformation about smartphone navigation that a vocal minority seem to engage in as they predictably defend the status quo...

NP

--
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...

Me too...

photosmike wrote:

If the Navigon software allowed me to add custom POIs, the 5000 would be history. I really like and use the custom POIs. If the 5000 fails for some reason, I will not buy a replacement.

Mike, I would suspect that you're not alone. When my Nuvi 765t dies I know that I will not bother to replace it with another car GPS--my smartphone is already doing better than my Nuvi for my needs and I'm just using free apps.

Even on the boats that I operate the truth is that with a laptop and a USB GPS receiver, the fixed-mount Garmins that we use are all but obsolete and they won't be replaced either.

NP

--
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...

I want to chime in

I want to just share my side a bit too.... I have a Garmin GPS and love it, but i also have a smart phone.. i am in sales and find myself needing to be on the phone alot, so i use my Garmin, but i also have forgotten it and need it in a pinch, having BOTH has been great!!!

--
Pierre - Garmin nuvi 1490T - MacBook Pro Navigon for iPhone

wrong path

ORnonprophet wrote:
GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

ORnonprophet - you're wasting your time arguing with these folks. Most members on this site have an almost fanatical view of Garmin and don't want to hear that there is new technology which will make their Garmins obsolete.

What really cracks me up is all of the people chiming in on this topic who don't even own smartphones. For example, BoxCar is one of the most vocal "opponents" against smartphones and I don't think he/she even owns a smartphone!! How can you be opposed to something if you've never even used it???

And all of the people who keep repeating the same false information about smartphones - "can't use gps apps without cell coverage", "can't view screen in daylight", "battery dies quickly", etc. The majority have never even used a smartphone and are just repeating rumors.

I few months ago I thought this site would embrace a smartphone forum because its the natural evolution of gps. But its clear that the vocal majority on this site just want to protect their old Garmin technology. So be it.

Yeah, like I said in another thread, if there were paper map forums when GPS's came along, I'm sure the vast majority of them would dismiss the GPS units (too expensive, unreliable, battery hogs, expensive map updates, blah blah blah) and I'm sure they had a chip on their shoulder about "those new-fangled electronic maps and all those people thinking they're next great thing" and so it is here too for some folks when it comes to moving forward with smartphones and their many, many advantages over PND's. One of the great ironies is that whether they are using a smartphone or not it's crystal clear that the growing momentum is moving towards smartphones over GPS and that those people who choose to stick with a PND are reaping the many benefits that Google's entry into the navigation world is creating.

Like I said, I'll wager serious money that within 2 years, the majority of folks here will be using a smartphone/tablet as their primary GPS, and within 5 years well over 80% will be.

In the mean time, at least we can chime in on threads and clear up some of the misinformation about smartphone navigation that a vocal minority seem to engage in as they predictably defend the status quo...

NP

you have made assumption that I think time will be wrong, that GPS in smart phones are the threat to PND, sorry but you are wrong, the biggest threat to PND are not smart phones but built in navigation devices in cars, sooner or later all cars will have built in GPS systems either by government mandate or manufactures will add them as valued added devices to cars.

Maybe.....

blake7mstr wrote:
ORnonprophet wrote:

Yeah, like I said in another thread, if there were paper map forums when GPS's came along, I'm sure the vast majority of them would dismiss the GPS units (too expensive, unreliable, battery hogs, expensive map updates, blah blah blah) and I'm sure they had a chip on their shoulder about "those new-fangled electronic maps and all those people thinking they're next great thing" and so it is here too for some folks when it comes to moving forward with smartphones and their many, many advantages over PND's. One of the great ironies is that whether they are using a smartphone or not it's crystal clear that the growing momentum is moving towards smartphones over GPS and that those people who choose to stick with a PND are reaping the many benefits that Google's entry into the navigation world is creating.

Like I said, I'll wager serious money that within 2 years, the majority of folks here will be using a smartphone/tablet as their primary GPS, and within 5 years well over 80% will be.

you have made assumption that I think time will be wrong, that GPS in smart phones are the threat to PND, sorry but you are wrong, the biggest threat to PND are not smart phones but built in navigation devices in cars, sooner or later all cars will have built in GPS systems either by government mandate or manufactures will add them as valued added devices to cars.

I'm not so sure about that. Many folks I know with built-in GPS systems in their car don't at all like their proprietary nature. Need map updates? You'll pay what we tell you to pay! Need more memory? Take it to the dealer and bend over......

No, I think the great thing about the smartphone/tablet platform is that the consumer has the freedom to add or delete whatever features/apps they want and they are free to buy from whoever they want without being beholden to anyone.

If the PND's and built-in GPS units abandon the archaic and consumer unfriendly proprietary model and embrace open source software and map development, then yes, they will retain some market share.

NP

--
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...

My two pence

If you're going out into extreme conditions (heavy water/overseas sailing/extreme outdoors conditions/etc.) or are using a GPS for purposes of formal surveying, then yes, a dedicated GPS unit will probably serve your needs better.

That said, few people are using a GPS in such severe conditions, and the average "car GPS" would also have issues.

As for smartphone GPS, there's three areas where this may be problematic (and I do acknowledge this), and the best solutions:

a) GPS tools such as Google Maps not always loading maps in low cell coverage areas. The solution here is to use an alternative tool that pre-loads maps (lots of 'em for Android, probably the best is CoPilot Live for the price; TomTom is available for iPhone, so best choice there).

b) GPS not working as well as expected--this is often due to either a provider that deliberately cripples GPS (Verizon used to be infamous for this) or a manufacturer using GPS chips of less high quality (Samsung devices, both WinMo and Android, tend to be weaker on GPS compared to HTC).

c) Extreme conditions--in this case, use a GPS device adapted for the extreme conditions you'll be entering (this will likely NOT be a "car GPS", but rather a GPS device specialised for boating, hiking, etc.).

For normal use (i.e. not going into extreme conditions) my G2 does nicely, and I can "switch personality" (from CoPilot Live for road use to Google Maps for city public transport use to Trimble Outdoors or OruxMaps for outdoor hiking). I'd not take the thing whitewater-rafting, of course (thanks to a slide-out keyboard, it's pretty much impossible to make "water safe" without putting it in a plastic bag) but for what I use it for, it does well enough.

As for the cloud-based stuff like Google Maps--I mostly stick with this in cities, and with public transportation (there ARE nice tools to map out public transport networks in many major cities).

For road travel--not a huge fan of "cloud" apps, save for traffic alerts (and not even these outside of major cities)--CoPilot Live works nice there, and I have the advantage of loading my own POI sets. (Yes, I know you can do it in Google Maps. It's a bit of a pain with large POI sets, though.)

I CAN say that with a phone with a decent GPS chipset, however, you don't really need the phone to help get a lock with aGPS. The G2 has managed to get a GPS lock when cell towers are down or nonexistent (such was the case a few days ago with severe storms that came through here) using CoPilot, even in the midst of a severe thunderstorm(!). I'd say this is more of an argument against Verizon and an argument for the chipset HTC uses. grin (I've heard this process is more...problematic with Samsung phones. YMMV.)

Another thing of Android-specific note--many folks have reported improved GPS performance with Gingerbread (Android 2.3) based firmware versus Froyo (v2.2) or earlier. I've noticed this a *bit* myself, but then again, my phone has tended to hang on like a bulldog to GPS satellites. grin

I'll also admit aGPS is helpful in large cities where there's a "canyon effect" that makes conventional GPS locks more difficult.

Different strokes for different folks. grin

Be careful

A smartphone has aGPS, which has many definitions, dependent on the manifestation of the carrier and/or handset manufacturer.

aGPS is required by law for 911 location services, therefore it is redundant and expensive to have a high sensitivity GPS receiver in a smartphone. Hence, the cell phone system assists the aGPS in a smartphone. If a cell phone system is not available, an aGPS device can not come close to the performance of a high sensitivity GPS receiver. With aGPS, the cell systems acts as the ears for the aGPS, and gets the satellite info to the aGPS faster than if the aGPS was to get the data directly from the satellites (id it is an aGPS configuration that allows such direct satellite access). Think of the cell system as a dynamic cache of satellite data that can be available to an aGPS. Now if that cell system isn't there, there can be problems.

How many smartphones have sirf high sensitivity GPS receivers? Go ahead, list them.

And triangulation only works if there is a cell system.

--
GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

Good question

diesel wrote:

A smartphone has aGPS, which has many definitions, dependent on the manifestation of the carrier and/or handset manufacturer.

aGPS is required by law for 911 location services, therefore it is redundant and expensive to have a high sensitivity GPS receiver in a smartphone. Hence, the cell phone system assists the aGPS in a smartphone. If a cell phone system is not available, an aGPS device can not come close to the performance of a high sensitivity GPS receiver. With aGPS, the cell systems acts as the ears for the aGPS, and gets the satellite info to the aGPS faster than if the aGPS was to get the data directly from the satellites (id it is an aGPS configuration that allows such direct satellite access). Think of the cell system as a dynamic cache of satellite data that can be available to an aGPS. Now if that cell system isn't there, there can be problems.

How many smartphones have sirf high sensitivity GPS receivers? Go ahead, list them.

And triangulation only works if there is a cell system.

I'm not sure which GPS receiver is in my Samsung Prevail (I'll check on that and report back) but I can say that several times now I've been completely out of range of cell towers (thus no aGPS) and my Prevail has had a full-strength (i.e 3 bars) GPS signal and never missed a beat in side-by-side comparisons with my Nuvi 765T.

Bear in mind that while the Prevail is a brand new model, with a $180 price tag it is definitely on the lower end of the smartphone scale in terms of features--and yet it does and excellent job with navigation!!!

NP

--
In times of profound change, the learners will inherit the earth while the "learned" find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists...

Take it to the Dealer and Bend Over

ORnonprophet, you're right on there. We have a Toyota Avalon with built in nav. The maps are archaic technology and if you want an update it's going to run about $250.
The only way that savvy GPS enthusiasts will accept built in nav systems is when they are able to be updated free or at least more economically.

--
John Feraud Sr. Fairview, Oregon U.S.A.

.

diesel wrote:

How many smartphones have sirf high sensitivity GPS receivers? Go ahead, list them.

Yeah, because only Garmin devices can contain gps receivers! So you're telling me the $300 smartphone can't have the same gps receiver as the $99 Garmin. Okay......

I'm not going to do your homework for you, but the first result in a simple google search pulled up this http://www.wireless-electronicspecifier.com/Wireless/CSRs-Si...

Oh, and FYI, I've used my smartphone gps a couple of times in airplane mode which disables all wireless connections. So I guess my phone is magical.

I'm glad you finally get it

ORnonprophet wrote:
diesel wrote:

Sorry, but the otterbox will not make a smartphone environmentally equivalent to standards such as IPX7 or IPX8.

If I am going to use a GPS for just about anything outside of a car, it has to be at least IPX7 compliant....

Really? Why would you need waterproof standards to use a PND outside of your car? That doesn't make much sense unless you're expecting a flood.......lol!

As I stated before, if you're using a handheld GPS for a 2 week sea kayak trip around the San Juan islands, you're going to be better off using a waterproof handheld over a smartphone. You CAN use the smartphone just fine however, and that was my point.

NP

Thanks for letting us know you finally get it and don't get it, and we can teach you so much more. Just keep showing what you don't know.

--
GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

AGPS

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

Oh, and FYI, I've used my smartphone gps a couple of times in airplane mode which disables all wireless connections. So I guess my phone is magical.

No. That's why it's called Assisted GPS. The cell phone towers allow for quicker lock-on, but in an instance where no signal is available, either because there are no towers or the phone is no longer connected to the network, the GPS will still function.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

WOW...

cool

If any of you are pissed off at a question, new or old,... Who told you that you must reply???

We are here to help I thought?

If you are not going to HELP!... Then

DON'T RESPOND OR REPLY.

There are too many,,, "LOOK how smart I am", on this site!

reply to that.

--
"Destination Eternity" Garmin 765T, & Samsung Galaxy Note Edge
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