St. Petersburg, Florida Red Light Cameras

Well, if the voters of the area made it quite clear to their representatives that they thought this was a money grab & St Pete should wait for the State of Florida to decide otherwise they would be heard loud & clear at the next elections ...

Fred

Good old Mayor Bill Foster he is hot to get these cameras.I was in St.Petersburg until recently and watched several city council meetings,several people at the open forum part of the council meeting talked against them so did some council members in spite of the opposition mayor Bill seems determined to get them.Now mayor bill is a lawyer,but I don't that even he can write a law that supercedes (sp) state law,I am not a lawyer but I believe he is wrong it is like the state trying to tell the feds they are going to do something the feds don't like,like the Arizona law that was struck down by the courts because the state law conflicted with federal law.

I read that the camera vendor is lobbying in the state capitol to have the proposed law amended to allow pre-installed cameras to remain in place. Also, it appears that the competitive bidding process is being bypassed to get the cameras installed before the effective date of any such law. Certainly is good to see our elected officials so aggressively promoting safety

From the St. Petersburg Times --

As of 6/24, here's the tentative list of where cameras will go

Street / Cross Street / Direction

Fourth Street / Gandy Boulevard / N-S-E

Fourth Street / 4th Avenue N / N-S

Fourth Street / 22nd Avenue N / N-S-E

Sixth Street / Fifth Avenue S / E

34th Street / 38th Avenue N / S-E-W

34th Street / First Avenue N / N

34th Street / First Avenue S / E-S

34th Street / 22nd Avenue S / N-S

66th Street / 38th Avenue N / E-S

Tyrone Blvd / 22nd Ave N / SE-N-S

Residents of, I believe, Houston,Tx voted to do away with the red light cameras. The company that installed them and ran the program went to court and a Federal Judge sided with the Camera Company that the red light cameras had to stay due to procedure problems.

This is all about grabbing money more than it is about safety. I saw it happen in Naples, they made more money on Right Turn on Red tickets, once the state put the binders on that - the revenues had dropped drastictly. Don't believe them when they say it is for safety - it is more for the money.

Indeed - the lawyers are having a field day here in Florida.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article1170775....

The city of St. Petersburg is counting on $1M in fines from red light cameras to help balance their budget, and some of us doubt that they will see much, if any of that.

LeapFroggie-- Thanks for posting that one. I've been away on vacation and I would have missed that story from the St. Pete Times.

I travel many of those intersections on weekly basis.

Thanks for the information,when in Florida we are thru many of these intersections.

You are all very welcome.

It is interesting that red light camera revenue is now being counted on to help solve St. Petersburg's budget crisis. In the city's FY 12 budget almost $1M in net revenue is expected to be received from these cameras. Some question whether that money will ever materialize. Here is an excerpt from a recent St. Pete Times editorial:

"In St. Petersburg — despite City Council promises that safety will drive decisions about placing 20 cameras — the intersection selection process by Mayor Bill Foster's team is tainted by fiscal concerns. As St. Petersburg Times' reporter Michael Van Sickler reported Wednesday, the city wants the cameras to generate at least 10 paid tickets a day to help ensure they make money. City officials are looking past a paid consultant's list of intersections where red-light runners are believed to cause the most damage to people and property to consider safer intersections that are believed to have more red-light violators.

But even if St. Petersburg positions its cameras well for generating tickets, it has no guarantee it will actually collect the fines. As Times' reporter Stephen Nohlgren reported last month, other Florida governments that started down this path earlier are finding the golden goose is looks more like one big goose egg. Miami-Dade County — which uses the same vendor, American Traffic Solutions, as St. Petersburg — expected to bring in $800,000 per month, but collections so far are running a quarter of that amount. In Fort Lauderdale, which also uses ATS, ticket revenue has plummeted from an anticipated 13 paying tickets per camera per day to five tickets. The city went from anticipating $3 million in net annual revenues to $150,000, in part because of the unanticipated costs of having police aides who review the red-light videos spend so much time testifying in court."

Good luck, Mayor Foster.

St. Pete Beach has pulled the plug (so to speak..) on red light cameras, even before they got installed.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article1172151....

"....the commission reversed a decision made just a month ago and repealed its red light camera ordinance.

......

The city originally planned to install cameras on 75th Avenue at Blind Pass Road and Gulf Boulevard but delayed implementation until after the spring legislative session.

When American Traffic Solutions, a private Arizona company, originally pitched its camera monitoring services, the firm estimated that 1,800 tickets would be issued each month."

Came across this site - it has information on the relative crash rankings, etc. of the proposed camera sites. Hope you find it useful (Note: I don't personally have anything to do with the site, just found it interesting and wanted to share).

http://www.stpetecameras.org/home/other-pinellas-rlcs/st-pet...

And just up the road from St Petersburg in Clearwater...

http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/202093/250/Citie...

After sounding like they were going to "hit the brakes" the Clearwater City Council OK's a red light camera pilot program.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=202124

Careful folks, those who travel on Rt. 19 through this area. My Mom got "tagged" by a red light camera on Rt. 19 here. Think she said the fine was $150 or so. She never had a chance to stop. Changed from green, to yellow, to red before she made it through. She's now afraid that she will cause an accident when she jams on her brakes. Go figure, eh?

But isn't that the normal cycle for a light? Sounds as if she wasn't paying that much attention to the light but was following the car ahead of her. It probably went through the light on yellow with no problem. By the time she noticed the light it was changing to red and she hadn't crossed the line.

Thanks for that link to the story about Clearwater.

Looks like the answer may be yes.
http://sunshinereview.org/core/blog/august-2011/public-vendo...

There are times (granted, far and few between), where running a red light is your only recourse because of the situation and circumstance presented to you at that time.

So the question I bring up is.. "How is one going to show/prove that running that same red light was the prudent thing to do"?

Just a thought. YMMV

Nuvi1300WTGPS

Is there anywhere that the average person can view approximately what an officer reviewing the Automated Traffic Enforcement data would see?

How much does such data vary by the vendor of the ATE equipment?

I am trying to determine how expansive the photos are and what else they might show that would be helpful to someone pleading their case.

How many seconds of video is available and how broad is its field of view?

ST. PETERSBURG, FL (September 1, 2011) - Today, city transportation officials launched a new public safety program - Stop on Red. Installation of the first ten intersection safety cameras will begin September 1, 2011 at the following locations.

. 4th Street / Gandy Boulevard
. 34th Street 1st Avenue N
. 4th Street / 54th Avenue N
. 34th Street / 1st Avenue S
. 4th Street / 22nd Avenue N
. 34th Street / 22nd Avenue S
. 6th Street / 5th Avenue S
. 66th Street / 38th Avenue N
. 34th Street / 38th Avenue N
. 66th Street at Tyrone Boulevard - 22nd Avenue N

The intersections were chosen after evaluating where red-light running crashes commonly occurred within the city and where safety cameras are most likely to increase safety.

Cameras will capture still images and video of red-light running violations. Warning signs alerting drivers to the red-light safety cameras will be installed. During a 30-day warning period beginning September 15th, 2011, a warning notice with no fine assessment will be issued to the vehicle's registered owner. At the completion of the warning period on October 15th, citations will be issued. Each violation will be reviewed and approved by the St. Petersburg Police Department prior to issuance.

"The intent of this program is to enhance safety for our residents," said Mayor Bill Foster. "Too many drivers choose to ignore traffic signals and risk the dangers of running through a red light. We want to change this behavior and encourage people to slow down and definitely stop on red."

Over the past three years, the city has experienced 21 fatal crashes at signalized intersections, resulting in 13 fatalities attributed to red-light running. A recent analysis of crashes at signalized intersections showed that 20% of collisions are directly attributed to red-light running. In fact, the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety reports that in 2009, 113,000 were injured and 676 people were killed in red-light running crashes. In that same year, 62 Floridians lost their lives making Florida the 3rd most deadly state in the nation for red-light running crashes. With the launch of Stop on Red, the city joins over 70 communities in Florida and over 500 nationally using the technology to create safer road and safer driving habits.

For more information visit www.stpete.org/stoponred

CONTACT: Joe Kubicki, Director, Transportation Department, 727-892-5274, or joe.kubicki@stpete.org
Lt. Wm. Korinek, Police Department, 727-893-7157, or william.korinek@stpete.org

ISSUED BY THE CITY OF ST. PETERSBURG
Marketing Department
727-893-7465 / marketing@stpete.org

Attn JM
FYI I just checked those locations against the POI red light cameras and they are not in the lates file released this week.

Thanks for the heads up.

I'll review and include them in the update for next week.

JM

Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully the red light camera file will get those intersections updated soon.

No problem - glad to help. I use your POI database so this will be of assistance to me, too!

Last week in south Florida I was approaching a light and it turned yellow and there was an officer close on my tail. I jammed on the brakes to stop at the light because I didn't want to take the chance of getting a ticket from either the red light camera or the officer. Since I have a tiny car I can stop on a dime. He jammed on his braked and slid into the curb. After the turn he pulls me over telling me I made an improper stop. I said that I didn't skid or slide and insisted I did nothing wrong. After requesting him to call his Major we reviewed the dash cam and his Major admitted that HE was following too close. After doing some research from a street vendor a couple of days later he said that he has noticed that since the installation of the red light camera he has seen between 5 and 7 crashes at this intersection in the last 3 month and that was more than he has seen the entire 3 years he has been selling flowers at this intersection.
The interesting thought is it creating safety or diminishing it.

I geocoded each of the 11 intersections & just emailed the list with coordinates to Jon.

The first batch of St. Petersburg cameras are now included in the camera files.

Red-light cameras going up in St. Petersburg
By Michael Van Sickler, Times Staff Writer

In Print: Thursday, September 8, 2011

ST. PETERSBURG — Red-light cameras are here.

City crews started work to install cameras at four intersections Wednesday morning — the first of 11 intersections that make up a red-light ticketing program that could generate nearly $900,000 in fines next year.

The good news — fines won't be issued until at least Oct. 15.

Although the cameras will begin operating on Sept. 15, a month long warning period will follow. That means violators will get only notices and not a $158 fine. During that time, the city will unleash a media blitz intended to convince people that the cameras will improve safety. (Academic studies are split on whether cameras do improve safety.)

Anyone who receives tickets after Oct. 15 will get a printout of two photos of the car, plus a website address to view a video of the car going through a red light. A violation occurs if the first photo shows the car with its front tires behind the stop bar after the light has turned red, and if a second photo shows the car continuing into the intersection. The video also captures the violation.

The city hired American Traffic Solutions of Scottsdale, Ariz., to run the program for three years at a cost of $3.7 million. They expect to pay for it from money raised by tickets.

The company is spending about $50,000 to advertise the program in St. Petersburg. Tampa also is debuting its red-light program in October, with tickets for infractions beginning Oct. 31. The publicity campaign combines testimonials from top officials of both cities about the benefits of red-light cameras.

In one TV ad to be aired next month, Tampa Mayor Bob Buckhorn appears with St. Petersburg Mayor Bill Foster in between footage of car crashes.

After one collision, according to the script, "quiet, emotional music" plays as Buckhorn and Foster appear sitting together.

"Red-light running is a serious and deadly problem in Tampa, St. Petersburg and all of Florida," Buckhorn says. "And it stops here. Intersection safety cameras are now in place in Tampa and St. Petersburg to protect us, our families and friends from injuries — and will save countless lives."

"Together," Foster says, "we're putting a stop to red-light running and making our roads safer for every driver, passenger, bicyclist and pedestrian."

Footage of another car crash quickly follows. The screen fades to black with a message scrolled across it: "Save lives. Stop red-light running."

Joe Kubicki, St. Petersburg's director of transportation and parking, said he wasn't certain when or on which channels the ad would run.

Already, Kubicki has met with neighborhood and business groups to alert them of the program. Beginning this month, city utility customers will be receiving information in their bills about the program. A brochure was created, as well, touting "safety cameras" as life-savers.

American Traffic Solutions wrote the scripts and brochures. In its bid for the job, it pointed out that it has two goals for "public awareness."

The first is communicating "accurate information."

The second: "Increasing overall public support."

Michael Van Sickler can be reached at (727) 893-8037 or mvansickler@sptimes.com.

This St Pete/Tampa video ran on last night's local news.

http://www.wtsp.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1162175674001

From today's Times:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/briefs/fines-for-red-light-viol...

NO red light fines until Oct. 29 in St. Petersburg

St. Petersburg won't hand out fines for running red lights until Oct. 29. Originally, the city intended to begin fines for violations on Oct. 15, two weeks after warnings were supposed to have raised awareness of the program. But there had been a delay in sending out the warnings. Violators won't get the first of the warnings until next week — the same week the city was set to issue fines. That timing wasn't consistent with the intent of raising awareness of the cameras before the fines were issued, so Mayor Bill Foster decided to extend the forgiveness period another two weeks, said Joe Kubicki, the city's transportation and parking director.

I had lunch with a city transportation official last week, who told me that this year's municipal budget includes $800K in anticipated net revenue from the red light cameras. He indicated that is was about half of what they were really expecting.

Not only will the revenue go up but so, also, will the hostility for elected officials.

The voters can demand a referendum.

Fred

More than 2,200 motorists have received warnings for running red lights in St. Petersburg since Sept. 15, but that probation period ended at 11:59 p.m. on Friday, October 28th.

Warning statistics:

Direction - Location / Warnings per day
SB - Fourth St. N at 22nd Ave. N / 10.9
SB - 66th St. N at 22nd Ave. N / 7.6
EB - 22nd Ave. N at Fourth St. N / 7.2
SB - Fourth St. N at 54th Ave. N / 6.0
NB - Fourth St. N at Gandy Blvd. N / 5.6
SB - 34th St. S at First Ave. S / 5.3
SB - 66th St. N at 38th Ave. N / 5.0
EB - 38th Ave. N at 66th St. N / 4.5
NB - 66th St. N at 22nd Ave. N / 3.6
EB - Gandy Blvd. N at Fourth St. N / 3.3
NB - 66th St. N at Tyrone Blvd. N / 2.8
NB - 34th St. N at First Ave. N / 2.0
EB - First Ave. S at 34th St. S / 1.1
SB - Fourth St. N at Gandy Blvd. N / 0.6
NB - Fourth St. N at 22nd Ave. N / 0.3
EB - Tyrone Blvd. N at 66th St. N / 0.1

The cameras are live now for sure. Here's an article from the St. Pete Times.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/st-petersburg-r...

This information was received from a friend of mine today - posted without attribution:

"I got a warning notice today showing that on 10/25 I went through a red light at 34th St and First Avenue North while making a left turn onto First A/N. The car to my right, which went straight, is obviously in the intersection on a red light but on close examination you can see the little delayed green arrow I was turning on. The light is red but the green arrow is there and apparently the cameras can't distinguish.

A letter requesting a review is going out on Monday to this department, cc to both the mayor and the chief, so they can see that if you're going to set these things up, you'd best be careful. This was only a warning (I don't run red lights so I don't expect to ever get cited) but I want the record set straight and I want our dear traffic people to figure out a way for the camera to recognize a light that's red and green at the same time Wonder how many people are being cited for this without realizing they didn't do anything wrong. If after I check out the intersection on Monday I can confirm that what I'm seeing in the tiny little photograph that came with the warning is what I think it is, then perhaps we need to let the newspaper know there's a problem."

Indeed you should certainly call a reporter or editor from the Times on this issue. They will certainly follow up on this "glitch in the system."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/clearwater-appr...

Six month trial. Cameras going in at:

The eastbound and westbound lanes of Gulf-to-Bay Boulevard at Belcher Road, and the eastbound lanes of Chestnut Street at Fort Harrison Avenue.

Thanks for catching that LeapFrogie
Someone in the area needs to inform JM when the cameras are operational.

@LeapFroggie

I added these to sites two the system, but they won't be published in the files until I see they've been installed.

Also noticed your profile was missing a POI contributor badge, so I fixed that.

Thanks

Jonathan (aka JM)

Thanks for the recognition.... your site's POI alerts have saved me more than one ticket over the years - returning the favor is the least I can do.

I went through one intersecion at night and the light was still yellow when I went through. But there was a camera flash anyway.
I am going to mass vote against any and all incumbants at the next election!

Why don'r you wait and see if you get a ticket?

If the light was still yellow, I do not see how you could get a ticket. And if the light was still yellow any photo would show that.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/tampa-st-peters...

"In St. Petersburg, where police began ticketing red-light runners in late October, fines produced about $1.9 million through the end of April, according to Joe Kubicki, city director of transportation and parking.

The city kept about $900,000. Take away operating costs, and that's in line with Kubicki's original $850,000 estimate for the first half of the year."

"In St. Petersburg, Kubicki said, rear-end crashes are down 45 percent since the cameras were put in, and red-light related crashes at intersections are down 60 percent.

He said his department compared the average number of red-light accidents in the three years before the cameras were installed to the numbers in the six months since the cameras were installed.

The number of accidents related to red-light running at the 10 intersections with cameras has dropped 60 percent."

ST. PETERSBURG — Rear-end wrecks at intersections with red light cameras have spiked 44 percent in the last year, city records show.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article1266845....

Today, the future of the program could be at stake when the City Council debates whether cameras make streets safer or only generate cash for the city. Mayor Bill Foster wants to increase the cameras from 22 to 31, and the council has no power to halt the expansion.

It could, however, dissolve the contract with the private vendor that supplies the system, effectively killing the program.

City Council voted to keep the camera program and the mayor can go ahead and add 9 more.

The statute enabling red light cameras in Florida does not require one to come to a complete stop before making a right on red as the general statute does.

Thanks for the update on this issue. I'll have to download the latest file when it is updated.

Thanks for the update on this issue. I'll have to download the latest file when it is updated.