TSA Sexual Assault

 

Is it legal to sexually harass someone as long as you're a TSA agent?

http://www.ourlittlechatterboxes.com/2010/11/tsa-sexual-assa...

TSA to investigate body scan resister
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/15/tsa-probe-sca...

If I understand this correctly, air travelers options are:
- expose ourselves to a small dose of radiation or
- be humiliated/sexually molested or
- be prosecuted and penalized for refusing to do either one

Is this still the land of the free?

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Something else to worry about...

Even though security for passengers is “over the top”, what really worries me is the "level of scrutiny" given to the mail and freight, loaded in the cargo areas (belly pits) below the passengers, on the aircraft.

--
Sullivan's Law: Murphy was an optimist!

Opt Out Day

Just a thought for all those upset about people opting out.

Man up (or Woman up). Be grateful that you'll get to your destination at all, eventually. Don't tell others not to fly simply because they are following the rules (there for the good of everyone) and you might be inconvenienced because of it. I think you already know that everyone needs to follow the rules.

TSA says you can opt out, they're choosing to do so.

Now do you get it?

Maybe if you were a little more considerate of their position, they would be of yours.

--
It's about the Line- If a line can be drawn between the powers granted and the rights retained, it would seem to be the same thing, whether the latter be secured by declaring that they shall not be abridged, or that the former shall not be extended.

left from Detroit

I flew out of Detroit Metro to Florida last week. The line at the security check point at metro was about 1 hour long before finding myself before the TSA agent.

In hind sight, if the job of a suicide bomber is total body count, then Metro and every other airport has a very vulnerable area.

Profiling is the only way to get past the vulnerable passengers waiting to get to the first TSA agent that checks your boarding pass and admits you into the security check point.
If a belted bomber or any type of bomber was in the middle of the Zig-Zaged waiting line and detonated himself he or she would take out hundreds of people and in come the virgins. With that said, the billions being spent on our so called security is going to waste because Someone might get their feelings hurt because they got profiled. (tuff xxit)

If you object to the security checks, take an alternative way of travel. If people stop flying, the airlines would not put up with TSA. And the Government can't afford to bail them all out.

I don't condone civil disobedience, However if you object to X-Rays the take the pat down this week.

Be prepared for long lines, delays and missed flights this week and throughout the holiday season. Make your alternative plans of travel for Xmas.

--
Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

I drive pretty much everywhere

Half of the fun of getting to the destination is the scenery. That is why I drive everytime I go on vacation. The problem is, how do I get to Hawaii without flying? Can't drive. No bridge goes that far. But, if I were to decide that I wanted to go to the great state of Hawaii, I would have no problem in either doing the scan or in letting the kind folks at TSA frisk me. Although it would be good if they did it away from everyone. Say in behind a screen.

--
It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. ----George Washington

Air travel is a luxury not a right! Like driving.

Just buck up and charter a flight.
Treat yourself right.

Round-Trip and Standard Private Air Charters
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Two-hour daily minimums apply. Some requests will quote better as drop-off and pick-up.
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New Flight Charters quotes include all costs - no surprises.

--
Nuvi 3790LMT, Nuvi 760 Lifetime map, Lifetime NavTraffic, Garmin E-Trex Legend Just because "Everyone" drives badly does not mean you have to.

Crusin'

--
Nuvi 3790LMT, Nuvi 760 Lifetime map, Lifetime NavTraffic, Garmin E-Trex Legend Just because "Everyone" drives badly does not mean you have to.

chewbacca wrote: Is it legal

chewbacca wrote:

Is it legal to sexually harass someone as long as you're a TSA agent?

http://www.ourlittlechatterboxes.com/2010/11/tsa-sexual-assa...

TSA to investigate body scan resister
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/15/tsa-probe-sca...

If I understand this correctly, air travelers options are:
- expose ourselves to a small dose of radiation or
- be humiliated/sexually molested or
- be prosecuted and penalized for refusing to do either one

Is this still the land of the free?

It's the third point here that really ruffles my feathers. You can be subject to an $11,000 fine all because you prefer not to be doused with radiation while undergoing an embarrassingly revealing x-ray or submitting to a sexually humiliating pat down by an out of control agency! I have long maintained that this so-called security is nothing but an illusion.

The Grand Illusion of Security

JD4x4 wrote:

Just a thought for all those upset about people opting out.

Man up (or Woman up). Be grateful that you'll get to your destination at all, eventually. Don't tell others not to fly simply because they are following the rules (there for the good of everyone) and you might be inconvenienced because of it. I think you already know that everyone needs to follow the rules.

TSA says you can opt out, they're choosing to do so.

Now do you get it?

Maybe if you were a little more considerate of their position, they would be of yours.

First of all, everybody does not need to follow the rules, especially if the rules are an affront to common decency. We are not a nation of sheep. The citizens of this country have a constitutional right to question authority.

And this has nothing to do with being considerate. It doesn't matter how considerate you are of their position. Do you think they are going to forgo the inspection because you are "considerate of their position"?

You are, however, correct on one point. The TSA does give you a choice of how you want to be humiliated. You can either be doused with radiation over your entire body and have every part of your anatomy revealed, or you can have a complete stranger groping and pawing at you in places no one, except your doctor, has the right to go. Which one do you prefer?

and for the lighter side

TSA Announces Facebook Integration For Full Body Scanners

http://wondertonic.tumblr.com/post/1600226419/tsa-announces-...

At least some see humor...

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

too bad...

are we still have "don't ask, don't tell"?

or, I really hope I can avoid someones....

or, at least, I can ask and know who is someones...

just, too bad... maybe it is not really a bad thing for someone else.

What's going on

Is starting to be called: Gate Rape.

--
*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone6 + Navigon*

And

kch50428 wrote:

Is starting to be called: Gate Rape.

Since it is sanctioned by the TSA it is legal rape.

--
Nuvi 2460LMT.

I'm with ya

My position is yours .. I think.

scyntax wrote:

First of all, everybody does not need to follow the rules, especially if the rules are an affront to common decency. We are not a nation of sheep. The citizens of this country have a constitutional right to question authority.

You have to follow 'em until they are rescinded though, or you're a criminal. I still try to get the moronic ones squashed before they're passed into law, but when that fails (as it mostly does), I've resigned myself to being a 'criminal' when need be and it doesn't affect anyone else. It's a bit tougher to rescind the regulatory laws though, as this one is. Voting is ineffective short-term. Public outcry, not so much.

Quote:

And this has nothing to do with being considerate. It doesn't matter how considerate you are of their position. Do you think they are going to forgo the inspection because you are "considerate of their position"?

I meant considerate of those who oppose the scanners/tactics that we have because TSA can't or won't take more truly effective measures.

Quote:

You are, however, correct on one point. The TSA does give you a choice of how you want to be humiliated. You can either be doused with radiation over your entire body and have every part of your anatomy revealed, or you can have a complete stranger groping and pawing at you in places no one, except your doctor, has the right to go. Which one do you prefer?

I happen to think I'm correct on most of what I say. mrgreen ..but I try too watch for signs that tell me I might be wrong. razz

--
It's about the Line- If a line can be drawn between the powers granted and the rights retained, it would seem to be the same thing, whether the latter be secured by declaring that they shall not be abridged, or that the former shall not be extended.

What about a police officer

scyntax wrote:

The TSA does give you a choice of how you want to be humiliated. You can either be doused with radiation over your entire body and have every part of your anatomy revealed, or you can have a complete stranger groping and pawing at you in places no one, except your doctor, has the right to go. Which one do you prefer?

For as long as I remember, police officers "pat down" "suspects" before putting them in a police car. A person may or may not be guilty of anything but still may be taken into custody for belligerent actions toward the officer while being questioned (and it sounds like this might be a distinct possibility for some of the posters in this thread).

Why does no one object to this disregard of a purported "inalienable right"?

This reminds me about all of those who were given to opposing stem cell research because it "murdered" the embryo while not giving a second thought to the fact that embryos are "thrown out" all the time by IVF clinics. Are the people who banked those embryos accessories to murder?

If you frame this issue as "sexual harrasment", lots of people will jump on the bandwagon because they are generally opposed to government. Not many people take the position that - perhaps, just perhaps - the current procedures are not well thought out and need to be changed so that "personal dignity" and security are balanced. Too many people just react. I wonder what might change if Rush Limbaugh thought it were a good idea?

There's one big difference

There's one big difference between the police searching you and the TSA searching you, other than the fact the TSA's search is far more humiliating: probable cause. If the police are searching you it's because they saw you doing something you weren't supposed to. In other words you were caught breaking the law. The TSA has no such restriction and can pat down anyone they desire. Therefore, the TSA's practices qualify as an unreasonable search. The sexual molestation aspect only adds fuel to the fire of unreasonable search.

I agree that the current procedures aren't well thought out, but that also implies thinking went into it in the first place. I'm more inclined to believe it was a knee-jerk reaction by an administration that needed to be seen as doing "something" in response to terrorism that it brought upon itself by sticking its nose into places where it doesn't belong, instead of taking care of its citizens here.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

TSA

I think they should change their name to T & A...all they would need then is to have all the passengers perform a poll dance....maybe they would put money in our underware...just remember to wear your thongs......I guess were all to get around on brooms....I guess that Garmin makes an attachment to a mount on your broom for the nuvi....

--
WLF

Apologies To BurmaShave

You Won't See London

You Won't See France

'Till We See You

In Your Underpants.

TSA.

--
*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone6 + Navigon*

airport screenings

Maybe the solution is to have 2 smaller planes to each destination. One for screened passengers, and one for non screened passengers (the 2nd one would be flown by a volunteer pilot with additional danger pay and a parachute). Choose one.
smile

Good one!

kch50428 wrote:

You Won't See London

You Won't See France

'Till We See You

In Your Underpants.

TSA.

grin shock mrgreen rolleyes surprised

--
Ted in Ohio, c340, 1490T with lifetime maps

0 for 3, not so much...

flaco wrote:
GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

If you believe for a second that the TSA's security measures would prevent a terrorist from blowing up a plane then I have some beach front property in Kansas to sell you.

So far TSA is 0 for 3, the shoe bomber got on board and shoe failed to detonate, underwear bomber also on board and bomb did not go off as intended, packages shipped from overseas did not go off.

We are not getting good at catching terrorist before boarding, just being lucky.

I am no great fan of the TSA, but flawed as they might be, they are NOT responsible for the screening for flights originating OUT SIDE OF THE USA. I know many in this thread do not wish to be encumbered with the facts, but Richard Reid (the shoe bomber) flew from France. He had been denied boarding on to a US bound flight by the French National Police - who use profiling - on the previous day. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the undies bomber, flew out of Amsterdam.

According to numerous reports, the government agency most responsible for stopping the UPS Cargo bombs was Ri'āsat Al-Istikhbārāt Al-'Āmah, the Saudi Intelligence Agency, folks that make the TSA look like a Girl Scout Troop out for a walk in a meadow.

None of these are failures by the TSA, they are failures of a far larger kind...

Personally...

If they start grabbing the 'boys', I'll just tell 'em, "A little to the left, please..."

That should cut that crap short! mad

kch50428 wrote:

You Won't See London

You Won't See France

'Till We See You

In Your Underpants.

TSA.

I go 'Commando'... Man, are they gonna get a surprise...

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

A new song to the TSA... with apologies to Oscar Meyer

Well, I have an Oscar Meyer wiener,
Touching it is what you want to do
But, if you touch my Oscar Meyer wiener,
You'll see how fast that I am gonna sue!

mrgreen

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

H'mmmm

scyntax wrote:
JD4x4 wrote:

First of all, everybody does not need to follow the rules, especially if the rules are an affront to common decency. We are not a nation of sheep. The citizens of this country have a constitutional right to question authority.

And this has nothing to do with being considerate. It doesn't matter how considerate you are of their position. Do you think they are going to forgo the inspection because you are "considerate of their position"?

You are, however, correct on one point. The TSA does give you a choice of how you want to be humiliated. You can either be doused with radiation over your entire body and have every part of your anatomy revealed, or you can have a complete stranger groping and pawing at you in places no one, except your doctor, has the right to go. Which one do you prefer?

Yes, one does have the choice not to obey any law/regulation. There are sanctions for doing so. We are "free" to not follow rules, but then there will be a sanction. However, laws, rules and sanctions can be changed.

I am surprised at the alarmist reaction to exposure to radiation when one is about to board an aircraft. Flying itself results in an increase of radiation, more than the scan. Radiation (although not good for you) is a part of the natural environment. I don't think every part of the anatomy is revealed either. The face, for example, is obscured. Although I have not had the opportunity to view the images in detail from a whole body scan, the views I have seen in the media would not create much interest at a porn site. (not that I visit them)

--
Ted in Ohio, c340, 1490T with lifetime maps

Just to be clear

I never mentioned all of the reasons I myself might (or might not) object to scanners and/or pat downs/extended body searches. Even if I did it's only my point of view and not everyone's. My point was more that we need to better understand the entire picture, as well as consider the whole of the flying public's opinion & liberties, without simply taking one entity's word for it being 'necessary'(like the TSA).

For everyone jumping right in about having to stop shoe & underwear bombers somehow.. they used PETN for an explosive. It's harder to show up with sniffers and current methods (might be impossible), but shows on x-ray. Well, anyone also know that it's so hard to set off that even the military has issues with using it? That's the main reason the bombers actually failed. Granted, if you can get it to go off it's extremely powerful. But.. in the big picture.. ?

And cases of failed profiling.. consider the expertise and resources of those countries vs. the (potential) expertise and resources of the US. I'd contend that if we tried, we just might be better than the current best. But then again, we can't even get the US 'intelligence' services to talk & share.

Lastly, I'd venture that most all of us have, will, or do violate a law, rule, or regulation on more than one occasion. Most of which we aren't even aware of.

--
It's about the Line- If a line can be drawn between the powers granted and the rights retained, it would seem to be the same thing, whether the latter be secured by declaring that they shall not be abridged, or that the former shall not be extended.

The land of the free & TSA

Well I guess you could have two planes. One for the ones who were scaned and one for the ones who desided not to be scaned. I'm not sure who they will get to fly the plane, but i'm sure there will be someone

Dr Orders

Funny no one complains about an x-ray when the doctor orders one or an MRI is is also not good for the body. Most law inforcement us full body pat downs when booking someone and full body searches when in prison. Nobody complaint about them either.

--
johnm405 660 & MSS&T

Wow

I just got off a plane a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed at what steps the TSA were going through to help protect us. We don't get upset that the department of transportation is out there patching our roads to keep us safe. Oh, but wait there are some that complain about that too. GOD bless the USA.

--
Dwayne, Nuvi 1690

department of transportation

Dwaynes wrote:

I just got off a plane a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed at what steps the TSA were going through to help protect us. We don't get upset that the department of transportation is out there patching our roads to keep us safe. Oh, but wait there are some that complain about that too. GOD bless the USA.

While the department of transportation is out there patching, they can also keep their hands off my ass-fault the same as the TSA.

--
Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

Funny

I guess you can choose not to fly and just ride in a car or walk. Whatever works best for you. I choose not to complain and be thankful that we still have a choice.

--
Dwayne, Nuvi 1690

.

Dwaynes wrote:

I just got off a plane a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed at what steps the TSA were going through to help protect us.

I wouldn't be the least bit upset if the TSA were ACTUALLY protecting us. But they're NOT!!! All of their security measures are just window dressing.

If you're a terrorist are you going to stand in a security line and hope the TSA doesn't discover your explosives? Or are you going to print a fake employee ID and pretend to work for a catering company or a baggage handling company and sneek onto the tarmac through one of the million side gates at every airport?? Heck, why even fake it. None of the airport companies really screen their employees, the terrorist could just go and get a job at the airport!!

Oh, but wait. The terrorists must be too dumb to figure this out. They're just gonna stand in the security line and hope they don't get caught!! LMAO

Edit - after I posted I was reading some other tech blogs and came across this interesting article.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/11/tsa-training/#more-... Seems the TSA can't even train their people properly. Who woulda guessed!

Agree Somewhat

You make a valid point however I believe that they will not get us by plane again anyway. I just believe that it is a no win situation for us. The second we back down is the second we will lose our great county.

--
Dwayne, Nuvi 1690

America Did The Wrong Thing

Dwaynes wrote:

The second we back down is the second we will lose our great county.

We've already lost it. We lost it the moment we changed the way we did things in this country due to outside pressure from the few (the terrorists). Now it's just waiting to see who picks at the carcass first.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

There's a missing prospective here...

And, that would be from the other members of this forum that are all over the world. It is conspicuous, don't you think?

What are they experiencing at their airports? Is it the same, or different?

I'd like to see what they have to report.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

No, we won't get blown up in the air

with any more or less probability than with the regular explosive sniffing and metal detectors.

Terrorists have moved on to printer cartridges and other electronic items for explosives delivery.

Undie bombs are so last year...

I think the next attack vector will be a bomb hidden in a body cavity.

Are you ready for a body-cavity search next? That coupled with an x-ray is the only way to make sure that you aren't carrying any contraband on-board.

The greatest chance of bombs getting onto the airport is via airport workers - not passengers through security.

Body cavity?

Hell, what if they surgically implant it? OMFG! Strip searches for recent stitches or wounds!

What if they find some? Hernias, heart surgery, gall bladders, etc.

Holy Moses, what a can of worms.

/sarcasm

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Is that silicone?

What? You didn't hear the one about the fake breast implant?

No...it's not the Onion.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/03/24/terrorists-use-explo...

I have

Quote:

What? You didn't hear the one about the fake breast implant?

My sarcasm was a bit tongue-in-cheek, though.

The bad guys will always be one step ahead, just like the 'black hats' (hackers).

The saddest part is, even after surrendering every right we have, it won't stop.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Screening Reports

Some of the reports are probably not true like the report that soldiers with weapons were OK but their nail clippers were taken away. Outside of a war zone I have never heard of military personnel being able to carry weapons. They are generally locked up in an arms room.

if it was up to me and if it

if it was up to me and if it was ok id just fly in swimming trunks just to avoid the hassle, but id probably be told to put some clothes on

--
A GPS can take you where You want to go but never where you WANT to be.

undies

I vote for the tin foil thong.

What might be more effective.

nansoutey wrote:

Thanksgiving day is national 'opt out' day.. so if you are flying on thanksgiving day.. make sure you opt out of going threw the body scanners.

happy traveling.

What would really work is an opt out of flying day. Not very likely to happen, but my guess would be the airlines would say "get those machines out!". Use the wands, use dogs, use eye to eye contact with profiling.
Border patrols do it in Arizona, Texas etc when we drove through. They are trained to LOOK for suspicious people and vehicles. They don't stop and inspect every car. TSA doesn't need to either.
Baggage gets on unscreened. What happens when a bag gets on, the passenger stays behind at the terminal with a cell phone detonator?
These TSA personal invasions aren't going to stop someone who is determined to do us harm.

--
Originator of Keeping Your Windmill Alive. Live in MA & have a cooking website. 6 yr. member. http://kitchentoysmakecookingfun.blogspot.com/

Sad and Funny

I always find it sad and funny when people liken the full body scans to medical imaging modalities. The former gets approval from TSA and is assumed to be safe by the FDA based on rudimentary understanding of the radiation types while the latter requires a much more thorough approval process from the FDA before it is used legally to fulfill a doctor's orders. The TSA scanners were quite simply never examined for the same standard of safety as ones being used by the medical community, despite the fact that the TSA scanners are used far more heavily.

I'm a biomedical engineer, I don't intend to subject myself to the insufficiently-tested scanners. Even if they were adequately tested, why subject myself to additional radiation. The study of science is full of situations where something was thought to be safe and years later found to have devastating results.

As for the pat down process, comparisons should be made to the custody search rather than the Terry stop search that people typically think of as police pat downs. While a Terry stop search can legally be performed to check outer clothing for weapons, etc, a more thorough custody search can only be performed by police officers in a situation that warrants taking you into custody. Since the Supreme Court held that police could take you into custody even for offenses punishable only by fine, police can pretty much do a custody search and take you into custody for anything...if they have a offense with which they can charge you.

Unless either the act of walking into TSA security zone or opting out of the full body scans is an offense, it is a very inconsistent application of law to use a custody search on a person passing through security.

Eh, next time I fly I'm going to wear a protective cup just like I would in any other situation where I want to protect key areas.

Terrorist....

Well terrorist main objective is to cripple MAIN INSTITUTIONS.....

By refusing a pat down and slowing everything down....I think they did their job...

As long as my flight is SAFE....I'll take those xray machines.....

Papillon

The 'enhanced' pat downs are partially a result ofthe failed underware bomber.

What happens when a terrorist hides a bomd in a 'plan' such as used by Papillon and Louie Dega. Will we have to turn our heads and cough at the airport?

Screening is needed but the porno x-ray machines and porno pat downs are not the way to go.

Losing our great county.

Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

We've already lost it. We lost it the moment we changed the way we did things in this country due to outside pressure from the few (the terrorists). Now it's just waiting to see who picks at the carcass first.

I second that. By definition, they made us change our ways so they "won". Now, let's not allow them to win the whole way...

Analyst: TSA Methods 'Will Kill More Americans on Highway'

Tighter TSA screening methods will cause more people to drive and could lead to more car-related deaths.
Link to blog in The Hill:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/130243-anal...

Or at http://tinyurl.com/2a4zhjn

And I wonder if any of those that decide to drive and have crashes will have their crashes classified as 'distracted driving?'

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

Land of Milk & Honey??

No - Land of Naked Imaging & Public Groping

MNew invention

They need to invent a way to detonate any explosive, They can then make a bomb proof room that you would have to pass through and if you have an explosive on you they could detonate it and only the terrorist would be harmed. smile Just day dreaming.

--
If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else. - Yogi Berra

MNew invention

Last Mrk wrote:

They need to invent a way to detonate any explosive, They can then make a bomb proof room that you would have to pass through and if you have an explosive on you they could detonate it and only the terrorist would be harmed. smile Just day dreaming.

Dreams can become reality.!LOL

--
Nuvi 660. Nuvi 40 Check out. www.houserentalsorlando.com Irish Saying. A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest.

TSA Needs To Be Reformed

Not sure if this link has already been posted on this thread, but....

11 Reasons The TSA Is NOT Making Us Safer And Why It Needs To Be Reformed NOW

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams
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