Interesting Article GPS Satellite discussion

 

Although from the UK, I found this article rather interesting. I know some people out in Colorado Springs that keep these satellites aligned correctly, and will check the validity of the story.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/may/19/gps-close-t...

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"Sometimes, when I look at my children, I wish I had remained a virgin". Lillian Carter (Mother of Jimmy Carter)
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Over budget? Really!

Very interesting. Why am I not surprised that the air force is running significantly over budget?

As the final paragraph mentioned, it's perhaps time for civilian agencies to become involved. Perhaps then, the new satellites will be deployed on time and on budget.

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"Life is a journey - enjoy the ride!" Garmin nuvi 255

Really?

ajhope wrote:

Perhaps then, the new satellites will be deployed on time and on budget.

And Nancy Pelosi will announce she is changing parties. As the specifications keep changing, the price keeps going up - and of course the launch is delayed.

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ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

Source?

I don't see any source or attribution for the original post so have to put it my my 'disbelieve' file for awhile.

That said, it's no surprise that a government project is running late and over budget but, with the importance of accurate GPS information to all arms of the U.S. military from tracking the position of foot soldiers to guiding missiles it would be hard to imagine the system will be allowed to degrade.

wink

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Nuvi 760 & 660, Streetpilot, GPS III, GPS 10X

GPS

Gadgetjq wrote:

I don't see any source or attribution for the original post so have to put it my my 'disbelieve' file for awhile.

That said, it's no surprise that a government project is running late and over budget but, with the importance of accurate GPS information to all arms of the U.S. military from tracking the position of foot soldiers to guiding missiles it would be hard to imagine the system will be allowed to degrade.

wink

Amen....I agree....

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Bobby....Garmin 2450LM

Here's the link...

Apparently the air force informed Pelosi several years ago that this would happen. But she has denied it, claiming that those air force guys are all liars smile

But on a serious note.... Here's the official link to the story:

http://gao.gov/products/GAO-09-670T

More info

Here is a thread to another post: http://www.poi-factory.com/node/22448

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Garmin nuvi 2455LMT (wife uses nuvi 255w) (sold C330)

GPS satelites

maybe Garmin should launch their own stelites

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marnoldi Nuvi 680 & Nuvi 2797LMT

Satellites getting old

Looking forward to an update when you hear back from your friends in Colorado. I have read other articles about how the original satellite system is aging and well past prime. Also, that the US goverment/Air Force is way behind implementing the needed upgrades and/or new satellite launches that are needed. But there there are many sats up there way past their "expiration date" that are still going strong.

So let's all hope the gps system of sats is good for a long time yet!

--
Winston Churchill said, “Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing, after exhausting all other possibilities.”

Oh well

Hopefully, They will fix it in time. If not hello again paper map. and excuse me I'm lost. Can I ask for direction?

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Val - Nuvi 785t and Streetpilot C340

Oh brother, what a bunch of Cr_p

Lets stop the rumors right now! be sure to check the date of the last update on the page.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/launch/launch_...

If you don't believe the above, go buy a ATLAS and don't worry about it.

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

I have made this a sticky at

I have made this a sticky at the top of the list because I have removed at least 6 threads over the last day and a half on this topic.

Please do not start threads on news that has already been reported.

Miss POI

Hmmm what does making it a sticky do?

miss poi wrote:

I have made this a sticky at the top of the list because I have removed at least 6 threads over the last day and a half on this topic.

Please do not start threads on news that has already been reported.

Miss POI

Will all othe posts on the subject stick to it??? razz

Edit: Would it be possible to lock duplicate threads and put a link to original? rolleyes

--
It is terrible to speak well and be wrong. -Sophocles snɥɔnıɥdoɐ aka ʎɹɐƃ

Yet another has popped

Yet another has popped up.

Time to fix the Subjects to be something meaningful and searchable.

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Nuvi 3790LMT, Nuvi 760 Lifetime map, Lifetime NavTraffic, Garmin E-Trex Legend Just because "Everyone" drives badly does not mean you have to.

Thread

Probably should post this here:
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/22549

Miss POI has been trying to clean up extra threads on the same topic.

Amazing How easy it is to fool the public

Make sure to get your copy on the globe for the most up to date information on this story!

FLASH
Osama Bin Laden is going to capture the satellites with a butterfly net on a long pole from his cave, on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area.

Come on people why even bother to spread this stupid rumor?

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

My sentiments exactly. It's

My sentiments exactly. It's been blown out of proportion by the rumor mongers. It's like global warming. Everybody is now on the "Green" wagon. What a crock!

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Nuvi 2595LMT Oregon 450 - Always drink upstream from the herd.

Another forum started today . . .

Sorry, BobDee, but someone started another thread called "GPS system could fail by next year." Even though it's a Fox News article, it does quote both the GAO (government accountability office) and PC World. I consider both to be trusted sources not rumor-mills. I also believe the Air Force is working on updating the system but they are behind schedule.

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Winston Churchill said, “Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing, after exhausting all other possibilities.”

Sticky puts it at the top of

Sticky puts it at the top of the list in the discussion front page.

Miss POI

ONCE AND FOR ALL

the goverment will not let the GPS sat. fail, they depend on them too much for security and mil. ops. so this has to stop , lets stop rehashing the same ole topic!

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Everyday is a GREAT day :)

The GAO report had to be completely read to the very end.

ZenHiker wrote:

Sorry, BobDee, but someone started another thread called "GPS system could fail by next year." Even though it's a Fox News article, it does quote both the GAO (government accountability office) and PC World. I consider both to be trusted sources not rumor-mills. I also believe the Air Force is working on updating the system but they are behind schedule.

You seem to have missed the link so here it is again:

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/launch/launch_...

If you do a search on the subject, it amazes me that each news agency has word for word, the exact same story.

And none of them including yourself mention the very last sentence in the GAO report that read as this"DOD and others involved in ensuring GPS can serve communities beyond the military have taken prudent steps to manage requirements and coordinate among the many organizations involved with GPS. However, GAO identified challenges in the areas of ensuring civilian requirements can be met and ensuring GPS compatibility with other new, potentially competing global space-based positioning, navigation, and timing systems.

So you see our sky isn't falling and our planet isn't warming either, because we are on the verge of another IceAge.

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

False Alarm

Talked to the GPS guys in Colorado Springs today, and they indicated that the system IS secure for the foreseeable future. They do not know what started the rumors of either its demise, or degraded service capability, but they are blantantly false. Should have called my guys in C. Springs before ever posting the UK article. Sorry for the mayhem! Navigate on!!

Joel

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"Sometimes, when I look at my children, I wish I had remained a virgin". Lillian Carter (Mother of Jimmy Carter)

Navigate on

You bet, and we all will!
wink

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

WAAS

Another reason to switch to WAAS/EGNOS as it also relies on ground based stations so fewer satellites are needed.

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Garmin c330 w/ 2011 maps

Of course...Should the GPS

shock
Of course...Should the GPS Satellites start to go bad just when by accident we mis-direct a missle to one of our own targets friendlies.. "OOOPS ..sorry guys ! (waving happily like nothing happened)"

Yes. We as civilians are a tad spoiled with these items but our own military rely on these puppies 100% in the battlefield. They should be appropriately budgeted for the this..whatever system they choose in a time of crisis.

We the People of the United States of America can voice our opinions to our representatives of such matters. It is our right to so. God Bless America ! wink

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OrlandoV (Nuvi 765T, Nuvi 885T, Nuvi 2589)

I Agree -

California just kicked some legislators in the hind side to let them know we are fed up with their way of spending, taxing, spending. Most of that is pork.

Then along comes something as important to our troops as GPS and they have no money. Give me a break!!

Looks like I'm going to have to get back on the computer and start sending emails to the people who are suppose to represent me.

I think we all should do that - not for our own GPSr but for those who defend us. We should also add - "God Bless the Troops".

Paper maps again ?

I guess I may have to try to find paper maps to find my way from here to there again. If there is no reliable GPS system, I doubt we would be able to fly either. But would it only be our country that would be paralized without the US GPS satelites?

Great news right from the source . . .

PaintballCFO wrote:

Talked to the GPS guys in Colorado Springs today, and they indicated that the system IS secure for the foreseeable future. They do not know what started the rumors of either its demise, or degraded service capability, but they are blantantly false. Should have called my guys in C. Springs before ever posting the UK article. Sorry for the mayhem! Navigate on!!

Joel

THANKS for getting the news out from your friends! The forum started with an "interesting article" and turned into a very "interesting" discussion (if not a bit heated at times). Put this one to bed.

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Winston Churchill said, “Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing, after exhausting all other possibilities.”

Great news right from the source . . . but heated?

ZenHiker wrote:

THANKS for getting the news out from your friends! The forum started with an "interesting article" and turned into a very "interesting" discussion (if not a bit heated at times). Put this one to bed.

Doesn't just amaze the heck out of you how a rumor can run it's way all the way though the media?

It just goes to show you can only believe half of what you read. As far as heated goes do you really believe this thread was heated, it was just several reasonable people telling the gullible not to believe what they were reading and the sky wasn't falling.

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

I’m still just getting

I'm still just getting used to how the characters in the show Primeval refer to GPS as "satnav." Regardless, neither is going away, I guess.

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TomTom One XLS * Contact me about 1200 free print credits *

GPS satellite launch

"It is uncertain whether the Air Force will be able to acquire new satellites in time to maintain current GPS service without interruption," warns the GAO. "If not, some military operations and some civilian users could be adversely affected." The report, issued April 30, notes the Air Force's struggle to successfully build satellites on time and on budget. According to the GAO, the Air Force is running $870 million over its original cost estimate and has delayed the launch of its next satellite (now scheduled for November 2009) by almost three years. As old satellites begin to fail, it is increasingly important that the Air Force does not fall behind its current schedule. Otherwise, warns the GAO, there is increased likelihood that by 2010, "the overall GPS constellation will fall below the number of satellites required to provide the level of GPS service that the U.S. government commits to." That shortfall "could have wide-ranging impacts on all GPS users." While many of the potential problems rely on the Air Force's success working with a new contractor, the GAO has made recommendations.

The GAO recognizes that there is no single authority responsible for synchronizing procurement and field-related facets of GPS-asset deployment and recommends that one be appointed and granted suitable authority to ensure the service meets the needs of users. And, just in case potential delays turn into real delays, the GAO recommends that the Secretaries of Defense and Transportation should address civil agency concerns and determine mechanisms for improving collaboration and decision-making while strengthening civil agency participation.

Potential of GPS Failure Overblown, Says Air Force, Vendors

Potential of GPS Failure Overblown, Says Air Force, Vendors

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/science/2009/may/Potenti...

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GM Built-in Navigation system - Samsung S6 Edge+ Smartphone with Garmin Viago, Google Maps & HERE Apps

Scary

PaintballCFO wrote:

Although from the UK, I found this article rather interesting. I know some people out in Colorado Springs that keep these satellites aligned correctly, and will check the validity of the story.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/may/19/gps-close-to-breakdown

I heard this story on the news also. It sure is scary. It may be overblown though.

Paintball CFO should read

Paintball CFO should read the recent posts before opening yet another thread on this subject. It is really getting ridiculous. I don't know how many threads on the same subject Miss POI has deleted but I'm sure it was a few. Pleas take time to read the recent posts beforehand.

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Nuvi 2595LMT Oregon 450 - Always drink upstream from the herd.

This is why you need to keep

This is why you need to keep yourselkf a few homing pigeons around so you can at least always get home!!!

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" But I have a GPS. It's easy, I just punch in your address and wait for your house to pull up!"

His was the original post

bushmaster wrote:

Paintball CFO should read the recent posts before opening yet another thread on this subject. It is really getting ridiculous. I don't know how many threads on the same subject Miss POI has deleted but I'm sure it was a few. Pleas take time to read the recent posts beforehand.

This was the original post all other have been merged or deleted.

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

The sky is falling

glad I have a compass next you'll tell me
earth is changing polarity

Potential Compass Errors

mrlee185 wrote:

The Sky Is Falling!!! glad I have a compass next you'll tell me
earth is changing polarity

It's only the east pole that's shifting 8 degrees clockwise from its current position. The others are remaining stationary within their normal bounds.

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ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

Another post

Here is another post on the subject.

http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090521/full/news.2009.502.ht...

Bob

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Robert Woodcock

This Thread Seems Pretty Tame...

A couple others I've seen over the past week or two in other groups or forums have a pretty heated debate.

At least this one isn't on the consipiracy thought that the government is using the issue as an excuse to turn GPS Navigation into a Pay to Use system. wink

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And now, back to your regularly scheduled forum - already in progress . . .

Pay to use gps . . .

I didn't even want to bring that up when the discussion got going last week but there are bloggers out there that mentioned "taxing" the system if the government is "strapped for cash". Right, the gov is printing more every day to get us out of the financial crisis and the satellite launches are already scheduled (as we've all read by now). But if you want to see what Wired.com had to say . . .

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/05/tax-gps-to-save-gps/

Just food for thought if you've been following the subject.

--
Winston Churchill said, “Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing, after exhausting all other possibilities.”

Hey - The sky is not falling after all!

If one were to go by last week’s headlines the GPS system will collapse sometime next year. Thanks to a poorly phrased Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, and the ability of the national media to makes mountains out of molehills, we are in for a long, noisy unenlightening debate.

http://tinyurl.com/qzoqrb

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ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

GPS Availability

There is no question that the Air Force will maintain the GPS system. Troops as well as a number of missile systems depend on GPS guidance.
As mentioned above a more likely concern is that consumer use will be taxed in some manner to pay for upgrades. Accuracy is already degraded from what the military has. It would be relatively easy to require a subscription to access the system for consumer use. This could be built into all new units sold and older units would cease to work after a certain date.
With the current government spending, taking over businesses,and dictating all aspects of our life, would anything surprise you.

I think the young of the country made a huge mistake,

Mike107 wrote:

[snip]

With the current government spending, taking over businesses,and dictating all aspects of our life, would anything surprise you.

[/snip]

You hit that right on the head, especially the dictating part.
Just,don't even try to blame me I didn't vote for him!
And remember your Garmin Nüvi® or any other gps as far as that is concerned are one switch throw away from derogation at the hands of BHO.

What's that you say, no way?
let's just sit back and watch, and see if navigation becomes pre Clinton unless you pay to play.

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

Agree

Let's try to remember that the GPS system is a DOD paid-for and maintained system. The DOD will (I believe) always have the system for navigation reliance, right down to a knats butt (required for targeting). Civilian use of the system (due to reductions in DOD funding) may come down to pay to play, but I would tend to doubt it. Time will tell, but with commercial use of GPS technology only down to a measurement of feet (and several feet at that), I doubt that we'll see ourselves paying for use of these devices in the foreseeable future.

--
"Sometimes, when I look at my children, I wish I had remained a virgin". Lillian Carter (Mother of Jimmy Carter)

But I paid for use of the DoD GPS system already

PaintballCFO wrote:

Let's try to remember that the GPS system is a DOD paid-for and maintained system.

Civilian use of the system (due to reductions in DOD funding) may come down to pay to play, but I would tend to doubt it.

But it was MY dollars I paid in taxes that paid for the system. I have yet to see the DoD generate any revenue, and if it did, it would have to be returned to the citizens.

--
ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

Huh? May be a few cells on a solar array

a_user wrote:
PaintballCFO wrote:

Let's try to remember that the GPS system is a DOD paid-for and maintained system.

Civilian use of the system (due to reductions in DOD funding) may come down to pay to play, but I would tend to doubt it.

But it was MY dollars I paid in taxes that paid for the system. I have yet to see the DoD generate any revenue, and if it did, it would have to be returned to the citizens.

Oh please dude!

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Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

Okay

a_user wrote:

But it was MY dollars I paid in taxes that paid for the system. I have yet to see the DoD generate any revenue, and if it did, it would have to be returned to the citizens.

Granted, but realistically, DOD is not in the "money making" business. General Motors, on the other hand, was in the money making business. Wanna take any bets on OUR money being returned to US? Slim to none, I'd wager.........

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"Sometimes, when I look at my children, I wish I had remained a virgin". Lillian Carter (Mother of Jimmy Carter)

Satellite glitch rekindles GPS concerns

Suppement GPS Data With Terrestrial Information

While I am pretty confident that GPS will be maintained, I do think it could be slick to incorporate the ability to add data from other sources. Although dead reckoning seems to be generally unavailable now, perhaps supplemental data from cell phone towers could be used. I realize that cell phone towers aren't everywhere and triangulation from them isn't as accurate as satellite based GPS, but there are many cell phone towers around and it wouldn't be like the GPS is using air time. It would just use data for positioning.

Another possibility that I think might be worth looking into is using existing U.S. Government tower sites. The ones that I am aware of that are most common around the U.S. are the NOAA weather radio sites. In fact, building in a weather alerting capability could be a handy feature for GPS units. As it stands now, you can buy a weather radio and set it for known locations, but having it built in to a GPS would give the ability to select the correct NOAA weather radio frequency, there are seven, based on current location, and alert to watches and warnings based on the location.

Actually, I seem to recall that cell phone triangulation is essentially what the current iPhones use now. Granted, they have announced that the latest roll out will have true GPS, but I recall legacy iPhones using cell phone triangulation. I suppose the ideal GPS cell phone supplemental data would have the ability to take data from either GSM or CDMA sites. I know that I have certainly traveled to areas in the U.S. where GSM towers were not available, but CDMA sites were available. In fact, since current cell phones are the hand held variety and the systems limit range, I think getting supplemental PS data could actually be configured to work further out than typical cell phone voice range. With an external antenna, I believe the range could be extended several more miles than typical cell phone range.

Granted, I think all of this is purely academic at this point. I am quite confident that the current GPS system will be maintained, but it is kind of interesting to think of other features and means to get navigational data.

We ARE taxed for these GPS Satellites

Anything the government does requires that we be taxed for it. By duplicating the effort, we are being taxed over and over and over... for virtually the same thing.

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Garmin DriveSmart™ 65 & Traffic in Bakersfield, CA
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