Big Brother in Our Midst

 

Here's an example of the rise of Big Brother in the name of generating more revenue at citizens expense.
Let's install GPS tracking in everyone's vehicles and charge them for mileage since cars are becoming too fuel efficient to earn much from gas taxes. This hasn't happened yet, but you'd better believe various lawmakers are looking into this:
http://techdirt.com/articles/20090217/1353483804.shtml

http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2009/04/gps-and-gas-tax-...

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-145888.html

Page 1>>

Re: Big Brother in Our Midst

Yeah, they always fail to mention that the real reason they want to do this is because the new "Hybrid" vehicles will cause gasoline sales to drop, thereby reducing tax revenues.

And they wonder why the T.E.A. parties got started.

--
Metricman Nuvi 660, GTM-20 Traffic Receiver Nuvi 3597 GTM-60 Traffic Receiver Williamsburg, VA

Another bite

I don't think my wallet is big enough for all those hands that are trying to get into it. Are they going to claim tracking my car is all for safety reasons?
It seems that every "improvement" the government makes is directly connected to tax revenues.

--
nuvi 785 nuvi 350, nuvi 270, GTM 20, jag in dash, mercedes in dash.

Can you say law suit?

I'm sure the ACLU would be all over that. I can't imagine it getting passed without a huge lawsuit for invasion of privacy.

--
GPSMAP 76CSx - nüvi 760 - nüvi 200 - GPSMAP 78S

Re: Can you say lawsuit?

thrak wrote:

I'm sure the ACLU would be all over that. I can't imagine it getting passed without a huge lawsuit for invasion of privacy.

What if it only tracked just the miles driven and not where they were driven.

Virginia puts the vehicle mileage on the state inspection receipt. There has been no fuss about that.

Of course, there is a reason for that.

At a Chevy dealer that I was working at, a State trooper came in with a mad acting customer. Seems the trooper had pulled him over for a dragging tailpipe. We had just inspected the vehicle 4 days before and the customer was claiming that we did not inspect the car properly. He claimed that we should have seen the hanger that was about to break and he should not get a ticket for improper equipment. Well the service manager walked over to the rack that all the sticker receipts were hanging on and found the one for that car. He took the state trooper over to the car and they compared it to the odometer. Seems the guy had driven over 1500 miles in those 4 days. He admitted that he had driven to Ohio and back since it was inspected. He got the improper equipment ticket from the trooper.

--
Metricman Nuvi 660, GTM-20 Traffic Receiver Nuvi 3597 GTM-60 Traffic Receiver Williamsburg, VA

Sheesh

DrewDT wrote:

Here's an example of the rise of Big Brother in the name of generating more revenue at citizens expense.
Let's install GPS tracking in everyone's vehicles and charge them for mileage since cars are becoming too fuel efficient to earn much from gas taxes. This hasn't happened yet, but you'd better believe various lawmakers are looking into this:
http://techdirt.com/articles/20090217/1353483804.shtml

http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2009/04/gps-and-gas-tax-...

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-145888.html

You like good roads? The gas tax used to pay the 80% federal funds hasn't increased in 20 years. The highway trust fund that receives its money from the federal gas tax went broke last year. Which is why the state departments of transportation stopped any road construction or major repairs. They had no money to pay for them. Add to the fact that in 20 years the cost of all the materials has risen in some cases over 400% and for some things over 1000% and you have a lose - lose situation.

The only way to get the funds you demand for road maintenance and construction is through gasp taxes. Either raise the gas tax, convert all the highways to toll or pay by the mile. Your choice.

--
ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

The idea

was shot down in Colorado earlier this year. *whew* But you can bet they'll raise the issue again sometime in the future.

When I left Washington, Olympia was talking about taxing cars by engine displacement in the name of "limiting the greenhouse gas emission," regardless of how many miles people would drive.

As much as I hate to admit it, the only way to address these issues in a manner consistent with their intent is to raise the gas tax. sad

--
nüvi 750 & 760

big brother

thats why i will never buy a new car or a car with on star because the on star is already currently tracking somewhat

Wow

You buy hybrid or fuel efficient cars to save money which is turned over to tax revenue from mileage tracking. Where is the incentive for selling/buying hybrid or fuel efficient cars? Go figure. Feel bad for people who must drive long distance from their job site.

Big question is---

When we all are finally in vehicles that use no petrochemical fuels, what happens to all the gasoline and diesel?

In order to make plastics (for now) gasoline and diesel will become "by-products" at refineries. They can't change the "cracking" process that much so that they can eliminate them. Maybe we can export the gas and diesel to China to offset the trade deficit!

--
Metricman Nuvi 660, GTM-20 Traffic Receiver Nuvi 3597 GTM-60 Traffic Receiver Williamsburg, VA

Not everything is about the money

wingsang104 wrote:

You buy hybrid or fuel efficient cars to save money which is turned over to tax revenue from mileage tracking. Where is the incentive for selling/buying hybrid or fuel efficient cars? Go figure. Feel bad for people who must drive long distance from their job site.

If I could afford a new car, I would get a hybrid. Not for the money saving but to reduce my carbon footprint. Saving money is nice, saving the planet is crucial.

--
-- Garmin 660 Ellicott City, MD

This would be easy to fool.

This would be easy to fool. Just transmit fake gps data from your car. The receiver would think you never moved, or it wouldn't be able to make sense of the data. Either way, it will never work. smile

Tax!

DrewDT wrote:

Here's an example of the rise of Big Brother in the name of generating more revenue at citizens expense.
Let's install GPS tracking in everyone's vehicles and charge them for mileage since cars are becoming too fuel efficient to earn much from gas taxes. This hasn't happened yet, but you'd better believe various lawmakers are looking into this:
http://techdirt.com/articles/20090217/1353483804.shtml

http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2009/04/gps-and-gas-tax-...

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-145888.html

But tax on the mile could also regulate dense traffic! Some cities are so loaded with traffic that something has to be done in order to restore clean air wink

--
Nüvi 765T, Nüvi 1390T, Nüvi 2559 and 2695 LMT, GPS12, GPS18 (used in nRoute and Oziexplorer on laptop), GPSmap76CSx, SonyEricsson X1 (For OziExplorer CE maps)

Boiling Frogs

Reading articles like this and viewing many official and public rationalizations of them remind me of the fable of the boiling frog: it is said that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will never jump out.

Gradually we have been giving up civil liberties for “Public, Safety, Revenue, Reducing Carbon Footprints… Looking at each thing separately, we might be able to find some palatable, but in totality it can be viewed as very frightening, especially if you’ve read the classic novel, 1984, where George Orwell described a totalitarian society in which the government, referred to as the Party, had almost total control over the people. The supreme ruler of the Party was Big Brother. Posters announced that "Big Brother is Watching You". Telescreens droned endlessly with brainwashing propaganda about wondrous government programs. Coins, stamps, books, films, and banners proclaimed the three slogans of the Party: War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength.

Yes, I do like good roads but not at the expense of privacy and the potential of being tracked. If this is just about mileage then why not track odometer readings annually?
No, not everything should be about money but that doesn’t give license to allow government to impose anything they want on its citizens under the guise of safety, environmentalism, etcetera. For the record, at this time in our economy, many of us have probably been affected or seen raised taxes, loss in revenue, loss of jobs and severe cutting back in many households. I would venture to say saving money is crucial also.

We have cameras in public places, red light cameras, speed cameras, GPS tracking on our cell phones, government proposals to regulate the color cars you can purchase and install GPS tracking devices in our vehicles.

Big oil companies have had the connections and lobbyists in Washington that have hampered the development of alternative fuel sources for many years and environmentalists have been portrayed as radicals. Now that there is an awakening of consciousness with environmentalism becoming En Vogue, that doesn’t mean we have to buy into everything the government wants to sell us.

Once we have more efficient and less damaging fuel sources like hydrogen, solar, nuclear, wind, and whatever else is on the horizon; do you really think tracking devices mandated in the name of safety and environmentalism will go away? No, because we became used to the idea and it will be accepted.

Don’t be surprised to see tickets in the mail for speeding or other things due to a tracking device in your car. These tickets will be given without regard to the context of the situation all in the name of public safety.

“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free” - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

The way you look at the problem!

DrewDT wrote:

Reading articles like this and viewing many official and public rationalizations of them remind me of the fable of the boiling frog: it is said that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will never jump out.

Gradually we have been giving up civil liberties for “Public, Safety, Revenue, Reducing Carbon Footprints… Looking at each thing separately, we might be able to find some palatable, but in totality it can be viewed as very frightening, especially if you’ve read the classic novel, 1984, where George Orwell described a totalitarian society in which the government, referred to as the Party, had almost total control over the people. The supreme ruler of the Party was Big Brother. Posters announced that "Big Brother is Watching You". Telescreens droned endlessly with brainwashing propaganda about wondrous government programs. Coins, stamps, books, films, and banners proclaimed the three slogans of the Party: War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength.

Yes, I do like good roads but not at the expense of privacy and the potential of being tracked. If this is just about mileage then why not track odometer readings annually?
No, not everything should be about money but that doesn’t give license to allow government to impose anything they want on its citizens under the guise of safety, environmentalism, etcetera. For the record, at this time in our economy, many of us have probably been affected or seen raised taxes, loss in revenue, loss of jobs and severe cutting back in many households. I would venture to say saving money is crucial also.

We have cameras in public places, red light cameras, speed cameras, GPS tracking on our cell phones, government proposals to regulate the color cars you can purchase and install GPS tracking devices in our vehicles.

Big oil companies have had the connections and lobbyists in Washington that have hampered the development of alternative fuel sources for many years and environmentalists have been portrayed as radicals. Now that there is an awakening of consciousness with environmentalism becoming En Vogue, that doesn’t mean we have to buy into everything the government wants to sell us.

Once we have more efficient and less damaging fuel sources like hydrogen, solar, nuclear, wind, and whatever else is on the horizon; do you really think tracking devices mandated in the name of safety and environmentalism will go away? No, because we became used to the idea and it will be accepted.

Don’t be surprised to see tickets in the mail for speeding or other things due to a tracking device in your car. These tickets will be given without regard to the context of the situation all in the name of public safety.

“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free” - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Is the glass half full or half empty?! wink

--
Nüvi 765T, Nüvi 1390T, Nüvi 2559 and 2695 LMT, GPS12, GPS18 (used in nRoute and Oziexplorer on laptop), GPSmap76CSx, SonyEricsson X1 (For OziExplorer CE maps)

Half Full

The glass is definitely half full at the moment but with the potential of emptying quickly if everyone is asleep at the wheel. I am concerned people get so caught up in the "coolness" of what can be done and not look at the totality of what is being done. It is far more difficult to change things once they have been put into place and have become accepted than to challenge things when they are proposed.

Government seeks to hold its citizens accountable for their actions and potential actions. Shouldn't citizens hold their government accountable also?

Since my job requires

me to drive long distances, I might as well just have my boss send my paycheck directly to the govenrment if this becomes law.

--
Not doing anything worth a darn.

Engineer's response

to the glass half full/half empty question: "The glass is twice as large as it needs to be." smile

When I was a child, I remember the covers of some of the "popular mechanics" magazines that my father subscribed to; you know, the ones that showed how in the future, we'd all be commuting to work in large, clear pneumatic tubes snaking across the landscape. Yeah. How'd that work out? Also remember 1995 was the year everything was supposed to be made from soybean derivatives.

There are societies and countries that are not any the less "free" than we are in the U.S. that are under significantly more surveillance. If you've walked in the City of London and other urban centers in Great Britain, there are many more security cameras than just the ones you can see monitoring the streets and sidewalks.

As for driving into the City of London, a lot of drivers in the U.S. could consider the traffic management techniques to lower private vehicle congestion to be unacceptably intrusive.

There are already people complaining about the GPS recorder in the rental car, where the readout proves that you drove out of the permissible rental area or chronically exceeded the speed limit. And they use that proof to sock your credit card with a penalty payment after you've turned in the car.

Orwellian? Maybe yes, maybe no.

--
"The true measure of persons is how they treat someone who can do them absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

You can always do like I did

You can always do like I did and join the movement:

http://wesurroundthemusa.ning.com/

If you join, look me up over there.

http://wesurroundthemusa.ning.com/profile/Clint

I have a LOT of good information on my site there. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it! (LOL)

--
Your Portion Of Light Whether you are a brilliant flame or but a tiny spark matters not-for the world needs whatever portion of light is yours to give.

will NEVER fly...

even text from the first link suggests it's dumb...

"This idea continually pops up, whether as a tax idea or a new way to charge for auto insurance -- but it never seems to hold any more value beyond a soundbite."

of course we'll then need to charge for bicycle mileage, space occupied by warm bodies, air breathed by those warm bodies - but perhaps with a rebate for exhaled air....

--
non-native nutmegger

Thank You Alcoa

Thank God for aluminum foil.

--
Bob: My toys: Nüvi 1390T, Droid X2, Nook Color (rooted), Motorola Xoom, Kindle 2, a Yo-Yo and a Slinky. Gotta have toys.

This would be easy to fool.

nguy wrote:

This would be easy to fool. Just transmit fake gps data from your car. The receiver would think you never moved, or it wouldn't be able to make sense of the data. Either way, it will never work. smile

I can see crazy fine and/or jail time for doing this.

They have to protect tax money smile

Europe Does It

I remember reading sometime ago how in Europe trucks and Coaches had to have a data recorder built in. When a driver was stopped at a safety inspection or weigh station they just plugged in and got all the log info speed info etc, for example since it was GPS enabled they could see where a driver had been speeding the day before and cite them at the checkpoint.

Taxes!

wink

mourton wrote:

I remember reading sometime ago how in Europe trucks and Coaches had to have a data recorder built in. When a driver was stopped at a safety inspection or weigh station they just plugged in and got all the log info speed info etc, for example since it was GPS enabled they could see where a driver had been speeding the day before and cite them at the checkpoint.

It is always funny to listen to discussions between people from another country than my country, Denmark. Especially the discussions about the taxes! And surveillance! We don't have any problems with surveillance cameras, and we pay 50% !! in average in tax of our total income. We like it! You know why? We get something back!

--
Nüvi 765T, Nüvi 1390T, Nüvi 2559 and 2695 LMT, GPS12, GPS18 (used in nRoute and Oziexplorer on laptop), GPSmap76CSx, SonyEricsson X1 (For OziExplorer CE maps)

Happiest people

University of Leicester (UK) did a survey recently that showed Danes to be the "happiest people in the world." Here's the rankings:

HOW THE NATIONS RANKED ON HAPPINESS
1st - Denmark
2nd - Switzerland
3rd - Austria
4th - Iceland
5th - The Bahamas
23rd - USA
41st - UK
90th - Japan
178th - Burundi

The survey was done in 2008. I suspect the people of Iceland might have a different perspective now since their economy tanked.

--
"The true measure of persons is how they treat someone who can do them absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

I'm not sure about this

metricman wrote:
thrak wrote:

I'm sure the ACLU would be all over that. I can't imagine it getting passed without a huge lawsuit for invasion of privacy.

What if it only tracked just the miles driven and not where they were driven.

Virginia puts the vehicle mileage on the state inspection receipt. There has been no fuss about that.

Of course, there is a reason for that.

At a Chevy dealer that I was working at, a State trooper came in with a mad acting customer. Seems the trooper had pulled him over for a dragging tailpipe. We had just inspected the vehicle 4 days before and the customer was claiming that we did not inspect the car properly. He claimed that we should have seen the hanger that was about to break and he should not get a ticket for improper equipment. Well the service manager walked over to the rack that all the sticker receipts were hanging on and found the one for that car. He took the state trooper over to the car and they compared it to the odometer. Seems the guy had driven over 1500 miles in those 4 days. He admitted that he had driven to Ohio and back since it was inspected. He got the improper equipment ticket from the trooper.

So what's wrong with driving 1500 miles in 4 days and if the hanger wasn't broken earlier, merely going 1500 miles shouldn't have broken it. I'm not so sure the inspection wasn't faulty.

--
NUVI 660, Late 2012 iMac, Macbook 2.1 Fall 2008, iPhone6 , Nuvi 3790, iPad2

taxing

im thinking about walking to work(25+miles) to avoid all this.

Did you read the reason the Danes are happy?

ntwajumela wrote:

University of Leicester (UK) did a survey recently that showed Danes to be the "happiest people in the world." Here's the rankings:

HOW THE NATIONS RANKED ON HAPPINESS
1st - Denmark
2nd - Switzerland
3rd - Austria
4th - Iceland
5th - The Bahamas
23rd - USA
41st - UK
90th - Japan
178th - Burundi

The survey was done in 2008. I suspect the people of Iceland might have a different perspective now since their economy tanked.

The conclusion they came to was that Danes have very low expectations and and always expect the worst, when that doesn't happen they are are surprised and happy.

Clairvoyant mechanics needed...

geochapman wrote:

So what's wrong with driving 1500 miles in 4 days and if the hanger wasn't broken earlier, merely going 1500 miles shouldn't have broken it. I'm not so sure the inspection wasn't faulty.

Every bump and/or pothole driven over in that 1500 miles put another strain on the hanger, and at some point, it broke. Maybe the shop's crystal ball hadn't been calibrated?

--
"Recalculating... drive 0.2 miles, then abandon vehicle." ------------- [ETrex Venture CX; Nüvi 200]

E85 and its footprint...

ktempesta wrote:
wingsang104 wrote:

You buy hybrid or fuel efficient cars to save money which is turned over to tax revenue from mileage tracking. Where is the incentive for selling/buying hybrid or fuel efficient cars? Go figure. Feel bad for people who must drive long distance from their job site.

If I could afford a new car, I would get a hybrid. Not for the money saving but to reduce my carbon footprint. Saving money is nice, saving the planet is crucial.

What about the land usage needed for the increase in corn needed for E85?

Dig deeper!

alokasi wrote:
ntwajumela wrote:

University of Leicester (UK) did a survey recently that showed Danes to be the "happiest people in the world." Here's the rankings:

HOW THE NATIONS RANKED ON HAPPINESS
1st - Denmark
2nd - Switzerland
3rd - Austria
4th - Iceland
5th - The Bahamas
23rd - USA
41st - UK
90th - Japan
178th - Burundi

The survey was done in 2008. I suspect the people of Iceland might have a different perspective now since their economy tanked.

The conclusion they came to was that Danes have very low expectations and and always expect the worst, when that doesn't happen they are are surprised and happy.

Dig deeper. It could be we are a realistic nation and arrange our lives according to the given conditions. Some nations don't! razz
Re your conclusion for Iceland: Are you using the same argument for The US? wink

--
Nüvi 765T, Nüvi 1390T, Nüvi 2559 and 2695 LMT, GPS12, GPS18 (used in nRoute and Oziexplorer on laptop), GPSmap76CSx, SonyEricsson X1 (For OziExplorer CE maps)

Shovel at the ready, sir!

Only if Happiness = Money.

You'd think if happiness were based on per capita income (nominal GDP), then the people of the United Arab Emirates would be the happiest people in the world. According to the IMF's 2008 figures, Denmark ranks 16th at $37,266/yr. Is that before or after taxes? wink

The OP was about potential Big Brother uses of GPS, if you'll permit me to gently nudge us back on-topic. smile

--
"The true measure of persons is how they treat someone who can do them absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

Where do you live ?

a_user wrote:
DrewDT wrote:

Here's an example of the rise of Big Brother in the name of generating more revenue at citizens expense.
Let's install GPS tracking in everyone's vehicles and charge them for mileage since cars are becoming too fuel efficient to earn much from gas taxes. This hasn't happened yet, but you'd better believe various lawmakers are looking into this:
http://techdirt.com/articles/20090217/1353483804.shtml

http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2009/04/gps-and-gas-tax-...

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-145888.html

You like good roads? The gas tax used to pay the 80% federal funds hasn't increased in 20 years. The highway trust fund that receives its money from the federal gas tax went broke last year. Which is why the state departments of transportation stopped any road construction or major repairs. They had no money to pay for them. Add to the fact that in 20 years the cost of all the materials has risen in some cases over 400% and for some things over 1000% and you have a lose - lose situation.

The only way to get the funds you demand for road maintenance and construction is through gasp taxes. Either raise the gas tax, convert all the highways to toll or pay by the mile. Your choice.

Hey a_user where do you live? Over the past 20 years there has been no increase in the amount of gallons consumed on a yearly basis ? I will bet if you bother to look up the statistics you will find that the number of gallons consumed has doubled with the corresponding increase in tax collected. The pigs that run our governments never met a tax they did not like and have no concept of living with in the financial means available.

--
"Ceterum autem censeo, Carthaginem esse delendam" “When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”

Milage Tax

I wouldn't mind taxes as much if they actually went for the purpose taxed. I wouldn't mind milage tax if I could find a job to drive to...

--
Be the change you want to see in the world. - Ghandi

Agree

ntwajumela wrote:

Only if Happiness = Money.

You'd think if happiness were based on per capita income (nominal GDP), then the people of the United Arab Emirates would be the happiest people in the world. According to the IMF's 2008 figures, Denmark ranks 16th at $37,266/yr. Is that before or after taxes? wink

The OP was about potential Big Brother uses of GPS, if you'll permit me to gently nudge us back on-topic. smile

Agree, focus on the topic, but sometimes the debate gets lost! wink

--
Nüvi 765T, Nüvi 1390T, Nüvi 2559 and 2695 LMT, GPS12, GPS18 (used in nRoute and Oziexplorer on laptop), GPSmap76CSx, SonyEricsson X1 (For OziExplorer CE maps)

I'd pull the fuse to the GPS

I'd pull the fuse to the GPS and use a paper map.

On the subject of gas taxes...

Double Tap wrote:
a_user wrote:

You like good roads? The gas tax used to pay the 80% federal funds hasn't increased in 20 years. The highway trust fund that receives its money from the federal gas tax went broke last year. Which is why the state departments of transportation stopped any road construction or major repairs. They had no money to pay for them. Add to the fact that in 20 years the cost of all the materials has risen in some cases over 400% and for some things over 1000% and you have a lose - lose situation.

The only way to get the funds you demand for road maintenance and construction is through gasp taxes. Either raise the gas tax, convert all the highways to toll or pay by the mile. Your choice.

Hey a_user where do you live? Over the past 20 years there has been no increase in the amount of gallons consumed on a yearly basis ? I will bet if you bother to look up the statistics you will find that the number of gallons consumed has doubled with the corresponding increase in tax collected. The pigs that run our governments never met a tax they did not like and have no concept of living with in the financial means available.

Not that it makes a difference where I live, the situation is the same across the country. While the number of miles driven has increased, and the amount of gasoline used as well the number of vehicles has also increased. More vehicles means more congestion on the existing roads.

Check out your own state's web sites for information on the cost of building and maintaining roads and bridges. Oh, one other thing - the national speed limit 20 years ago was the infamous double nickel - 55.

--
ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

GPS to track milage for Tax

Geroge Orwell's "1984" has come true....

"THEY" are watching ! (Big Brother)

It only took a little longer to get here.

Cameras are everywhere..... gives me a creepy feeling sometimes.

I know they do help in some situations... but I think we have to be careful not to go too far with the idea.

Pay by the mile?

Pay by the mile? The Cleveland Plain Dealer has an Op-Ed on paying by the mile as a gas tax replacement.

http://tinyurl.com/chpd57

--
ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

Virtual Cabs

I can't wait to see the third party gear that consumers can purchase as add-ons to this tracking technology... A manufacturer can create a "meter" much like one's you see in taxi cabs that keeps rolling showing you how much you owe.
Won't that be fun? shock

cut the waste first

DrewDT wrote:

Here's an example of the rise of Big Brother in the name of generating more revenue at citizens expense.
Let's install GPS tracking in everyone's vehicles and charge them for mileage since cars are becoming too fuel efficient to earn much from gas taxes. This hasn't happened yet, but you'd better believe various lawmakers are looking into this:
http://techdirt.com/articles/20090217/1353483804.shtml

http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2009/04/gps-and-gas-tax-...

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-145888.html

I don't mind paying my taxes for roads and other government programs but the government has just gotten too big and wasteful. It is a self perpetuating thing that keeps getting bigger and bigger and the politicians get all of the benefits so they will not change the system willingly.

Cut the waste

The business of a politician is to get re-elected. To change from that perspective to one of serving the country is for us to send the message that we are fed up with "Tax and Spend," "Spend and Tax," "Tax and Give Away," and the debt from similar programs. We can do that by not voting for ANY incumbent in the 2010 general election.

If the politicians don't understand the message we are sending then repeat the process for the 2012 elections. When we put people into office who will best serve this country instead of themselves we will all benefit. IMHO.

--
"It's not where you start, but where you end up." Where am I and what am I doing in this hand basket?

Big Brother Gaining Ground

Apparently it is unnecessary in WI to need a warrant to place GPS trackers secretly onto people's cars. I wonder what would happen if someone saw one on their car and disposed of it?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/chi-ap-wi-gps-polic...

big brother's equipment is sacred

there's another thread started discussing the WI decision about gps tracking and warrants. But I wondered the same thing--what if you found a gps on your car attached by someone (?) else and destroyed it? If it was the police, you'd likely get arrested for destroying public property! just my guess, though.

(PS the police did get a warrant to attach the gps in that case against a stalker. But the court ended up saying they really did not need it. go figure!)

--
Winston Churchill said, “Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing, after exhausting all other possibilities.”

that would void the warranty

that would void the warranty on the car, no doubt?

Didn't realize

Didn't realize it was started on another thread. I saw it on the news and figured it would be good to keep it in the Big Brother thread so people can have one place to go to reference the various Big Brother type happenings out there grin

The vehicle warranty shouldn't be voided by removing a third party piece of equipment that was attached.

The bigger question is, what would the consequences be if I saw something attached to my car that I knew didn't belong there and I decided to remove it. It isn't like an ankle bracelet used by parolees that are told specifically not to attempt removal. Similarly, if I found something in my home, like a listening device, I would probably remove that as well. Any thoughts?

device

If they went a route like this, I would hold onto my classic car and keep my "classic" GPS unit. the problem with something like this is getting people to voluntarily use it. What if the 12V/cigarette lighter receptacle is broken? Or what if it is used just for the cigarette lighter?
Ok hardwire it... you know there will be people disconnecting the wires... or modify the power wire so they flip a switch to show they drove 200 miles this year and not the 20,000 miles on the odometer.

then you have to look at how this punishes those driving fuel efficient vehicles... since the tax they claim will be based on number of miles driven and not fuel used, it will help these big 5-10 mpg beasts stay on the road since they pay the same tax that the Hybrids or electric vehicles do.

The only way to effectively increase funding is force legislation saying that money collected by fuel taxes can only be used for transportation based stuff like highways, bridges, roads. Switch the collection to the counties so areas with higher tourists and more road usage will have more money to maintain their roads.

National control is being taken over one item at a time rather then leave most of the powers with the states...

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Garmin c330 w/ 2011 maps

NY Courts Disagree with Wisconsin Courts

Thankfully there are some judges that are somewhat sensible. I wonder if they are becoming the minority in this assault on our privacy:
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=79937...

Ridiculous

I can't imagine a system be used in such a wide scale. This would cost ridiculous amounts of money to implement, to have a system in place that accurately tracks each and every card on the road, and bills each person by mail. I'm sure the cons outweigh the pros in this instance.

1984 is here already

You use a credit card, your are tracked.
You walk into a business, you are on camera.
You buy gas, you are on camera and if you pay with debit you are tracked.
There isn't any part of life now that doesn't track you or your dealings. Just wait until the credit cards are chipped and then the powers to be can turn off your cash and ruin your life. All this of course is for those BAD people but then the folks that wrote the declaration of independence were BAD people in the eyes of the British.

Bob

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Robert Woodcock

Consequences of removal

DrewDT wrote:

The bigger question is, what would the consequences be if I saw something attached to my car that I knew didn't belong there and I decided to remove it. It isn't like an ankle bracelet used by parolees that are told specifically not to attempt removal. Similarly, if I found something in my home, like a listening device, I would probably remove that as well. Any thoughts?

That is an interesting question. I would also remove anything "foreign" I found on my car or in my home. And now that I think about it, even if the police had a warrant, if it's the kind they dont' serve you directly (surveillance vs. search) then I gues you can't get in trouble--you didn't know who the equipment belonged to anyway!

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Winston Churchill said, “Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing, after exhausting all other possibilities.”
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