When Will GPS Magazines Start to Question Garmin??

I agree that it appears as though Garmin (as well as many other companies) seem to be in too much of rush to release their newest offerings. It seems to be a sign of the times. Quality control, it seems has taken a back seat to demands. I believe however that you'll find a number of threads on this site show that questions are already being fielded to Garmin on a number of different fronts.
Hope you thoroughly enjoy your time on POI-Factory.

I'm happy with the performance of my 660 and 680, and the response I've gotten from Garmin when I've called them (twice or so).

I work in a high-tech startup. One of the issues I see with parts of our engineering organization, is that they don't see the incredible products they're developing, and have developed. All some of them see is bug reports; all they hear is customers and field support people with problems and complaints.

They don't hear from the majority of our customers using our products, where those products perform day in and day out. They seldom see or hear the good news.

Compared to earlier generations of GPS products (such as my old 45XL), the 660/680 generation, and following, are very complex computer-based devices; multimedia computers with GPS receivers built in.

While I'd like to have perfection in the equipment I use (whether it's the gear we build, or stuff from others), I realize that's unlikely. I also realize some companies are better at things than others.

We also see a hierarchy of problems, ranging from unusual interactions in complex designs, to design/layout issues, and down the line to manufacturing/qc issues and the occasional company that just ships crap.

Those of us who fill the role of tech support for family (and/or friends) learn which companies fall into the different categories; who does a good job and who does a poor job. But even there, we tend to see (and remember) mostly the warts and the problems.

For my money, Garmin is doing a good job. The problems I've had have been minor and were resolved quickly. In contrast, there are some other products I wouldn't buy, and recommend against.

There is room for all of us to improve.

Garmin doesn't make the maps so I can't fault them there. What, specifically, have you had problems with hardware or software wise?

I think what you are seeing in the testing and reviews is that Garmin may not be perfect but when they are compared head to head against the competition they are clearly superior to the competition.

If you are waiting for the perfect unit to come out that never will have any problems of any kind before you buy then you will be waiting forever. It is obvious that most of the consumers that purchase a GPS unit are choosing a Garmin. Other then TomTom in second place the balance of the available brands barely are a tiny blip on the sales radar.

What do we ever buy that is perfect and never ever has any problems. I cannot think of anything but some are clearly superior to others even with their faults.

I also follow other forums and what I have noticed is that most of the complaining about Garmin comes from the same people over and over and nothing Garmin does seems to please them or make them happy. The strange thing is that most keep buying another Garmin when they replace their present unit. I think some people just like to try to find faults and then bitch about them.

Sure they do. They get the map data from Navteq, then compile that data into proprietary Garmin maps that only work on Garmin units.

Both of the latest downloadable map updates have had numerous issues...the latest one (CN NA NT 2010.10) was with Junction View...just scan the forum for info. This is not the only problem either as this same release also had a bug where the installer would proceed to delete the installed maps on the unit (lower memory nuvis), then abort the install due to the installer not recognizing that the low-memory nuvi can have various alternate smaller mapsets installed to it instead of the full mapset. This left many users with a map update that deleted all maps from the unit and did not install even the smaller mapset, rendering the unit useless.

The previous v2009.11 map update required two firmware update "band-aids" to correct the problems it created on nuvi 7x5 units.

OH Please!
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/21884

Software,software,software, Map Algorithms,Map Algorithms,Map Algorithms. Need I say more?

As far as features, UI etc Garmin is superior but all these tests are done on brand new units, they never do long term use follow ups. They are not taking into consideration, quality control as somebody who had 2 350's returned due to bad power switches, 2 750 returned one for having a software meltdown in the middle of a trip. Now my 765 is in Olathe for a battery that will not hold a charge for more than 15 minutes. This is not whining all these units had real problems that affected their operation

Thank's for the link you provided above to a thread that shows how quickly Garmin reacted to a limited problem and has issued a updated file for the effected units in less than a week. Werkskine verified today that the fix works. That is a good example of quick reaction to a problem that only affected a very few models. I think that supports what I had pointed out in my earlier post.

The initial strange thing about the problem was that the first poster in Southern Cal complained about having the Junction View problem but the second poster in the same thread located in Kansas City with the same GPS model didn't have a problem with Junction View. It appears the changes were within the junction view file and only affected certain areas.

I formally worked at a manufacturing facility that made automotive components, both electronic and mechanical. So I know what quality control is all about, because not only do you want to keep your customers happy, but bad parts mean less profit.

Some folks would say "Just raise the price to increase profits". SORRY, it just does not work that way at all. It is a very competitive world out there, and if another company can beat your price, then they get the contract.

I can assure you that Garmin is tracking quality and striving to improve it any way they can. Companies that do not make a profit do not stay around long. Competition is keeping the price down and lower prices mean that you must keep quality up to keep the profits up.

I think that you also have to take a few things in to account.

1. How does one know that quality is getting worse?
Just because you see a lot of complaints does not
mean that the quality is bad. One has to ask: How
many million of units were made to generate
these complaints? We would actually have to see
Garmin's data to get a real perspective. Or we
would have see data from Consumer's Report, to
get a good idea.
Also, complainers make a louder noise than a
satisfied user does.

2. Consumers are demanding more bells and whistles!
This keeps the R&D folks very busy. New products
are going to have problems. Units are getting so
complex and the competition comes out with their
version right behind you, so you have to design
as fast as you can and start manufacturing as
soon as physically possible. To top it off, test
a product all you want, but there is no test
harder than the American public. The more complex
a device is, the harder it is to think of every
single scenerio that could go wrong in the
manufacturing process or in the consumers hands.

3. The "Top Dog" is always a target.

Now, I don't know how Garmin really compares to all the other brands, I just know that the 660 that I have is doing great and I didn't know how much I would use it, till I got it (Father's Day gift)! And except for the problem with the "FM Traffic Lifetime Subscription" it has performed better than I expected.

If it's stolen, smashed or burns up, I will probably get another Garmin to replace it.

He initially reported that it worked, then came back and said only one view showed, the other did not, then proceded to report to tech support. His was the only report that I heard amongst three different forums that it worked partially and that was using my posted test route here in SoCal, not in Kansas. How on earth could locale affect whether or not it's working since the test is run in simulation mode? Most users that reported JV was broken reported it being broken in my test as well as their own tests and in their own locales.

Regardless, a fix was issued and for that Garmin deserves thanks for issuing it so quickly.

The problem I and others here have is:

1. The map should NOT have been released *untested*

2. The issue was discovered by the end-user when it could easily have been discovered by Garmin *if they tested it*

3. A "fix" was issued this morning via their online tech support page...it did not work with a corrupted file download. The file was replaced with another on their server that did not work either. The installation instructions were incorrect (and they still are incorrect as I'm writing this) stating the file is in zip format when in actuality, the file is NOT compressed and when downloaded is a different file size every time. I have NOT re-downloaded this file to verify that it has been corrected yet.

EDIT: I have again downloaded this file posted earlier this morning and it is still incorrect and does NOT work. What's the point of issuing a "fix" that is still broken? They should just REMOVE the file until the correct one is posted.

The Junction View issue was very minor compared to the other problem where users *lost their maps* on low memory nuvis because of the other issue with the map release. I'm sure if this had happened to your unit, you'd be fuming too.

Bottom line is that Garmin (or anybody else for that matter) needs to test these various updates and not rely on the end-user to find the bugs. If they're going to release beta software, they should clearly state that fact along with the obligatory disclaimer.

And if you think being a beta tester is ok.. then you go ahead and do just that, But the software should have never hit the market place in the first place.. Can you say Kazan, in the quality control department?

Come on BobDee ... you make it sound like the sky is falling.

It isn't.

If you are like me (and all the others who frequent here) ... you are an "early adopter," a "power users." some one who is itching to get their hands on the latest and greatest ... to push the gps device to its outer limits.

Sure I've found some bugs in the maps ... but I have at least 20 friends who have asked my opinion, bought a GPS, and have lived happily ever after with their GPS's ... having no desire to update the maps or add their own POI's or flash their units with the latest firmware.

In many ways, what you are reading on the net does not reflect the vast majority of GPS users ...

It's the price we pay to be one of the first to update to the latest and greatest.

Also ... surely you have a glimmer of how complex the programming and database structures are in a GPS.

I'm proud to have been a part of the early days of computers ... long before anyone ever heard of Microsoft ... back when Bill Gates supplied PC-Dos to IBM.

Back in those days, we were absolutely amazed at the power of computers ... and we were also absolutely amazed that our programs even worked at all.

I remain amazed at the technology that allows GPS's to work at all ... and I enjoy helping companies improve their devices.

If you don't have the heart for this, stick to your paper maps.

And, if you really understand the complexity of these devices ... and think you can do better ... start your own GPS company.

I have followed some of the other brand forums also and see similar complaints on most all of them.

It appears you apply different standards to be met for Garmin then you do for Navigon.

I know you have stated many times how you feel Navigon is clearly superior to Garmin and you just leave your Garmin in the drawer and always choose the Navigon to actually use. The following are some examples of postings on the Navigon forum and it sounds like they, according to your standard, are also using their buyers as beta testers and are also lacking in quality control.

A few examples of Navigon problems with links:

1. Empty Map list preventing use:

http://forums.gpsreview.net/viewtopic.php?t=12555

2. After the update, I found that I had lost speed assistant and the lane guidance completely:

http://forums.gpsreview.net/viewtopic.php?t=12022

3. Another Navigon Frustration

http://forums.gpsreview.net/viewtopic.php?t=11782

Bla bla bla

I havn't made a navigon post because of you for a while now.. and I don't own a new Navigon, so now what are you going to say,

Besides this is a Garmin post not a NAVIGON post. So please don't try changing the subject. Garmin's software Quality control still sucks.

And since you seem to have forgot, I will remind you what the thread title is, "When Will GPS Magazines Start to Question Garmin??"
It didn't say NAVIGON, Just to be perfectly clear it said GARMIN.

I think Garmin has good products. I haven't had a problem with my GPS.

This is one issue I agree 100% with Bob. Unlike most people here, I travel every week, I might have to fly commercial or my private plane and then get into a rental with my Garmin, or I use my car. I have used Garmin for many years. The older units had less problems. Yes, some of the new features are nice like touch screen, but if the darn thing can't find and Interstate exit and routes you to the next one and then back to the exit you passed to get off, (a u-turn) something is wrong. I'm not going to rehash all of the software and mapware problems again. To answer the question that will be asked 'why don't I buy a different brand?" Because I already have Map Source and many other Garmin tools and I really don't want to start over, but I can complain and hope for better.

I have had various computers for over 30 years and the newest ones still have problems. They lock up, are slow to boot and have other occasional issues. However, I can't live without one now. A Garmin is an electronic device that is really a miniture computer. It is not a perfect world so bugs exist and you work around them. Based on what I have seen, the Garmin has the best track record and my Nuvi 350 has performed great. I try to keep my expectations realistic in this ever changing world.

Really. After reading most of these posts, there is probably a bit of truth in each of them. However! I’ve seen many, many posts here that need not have been here if the poster would have simply read the directions. Like always, when all else fails, read the directions. I’ve also seen many posts here where the given information is wrong. Without calling Garmin to get the right information, I've seen some cases where units have had to be returned to Garmin because of the wrong information being given. Yes, on this forum. We get a gift, or buy without researching, and at the first speed bump we’re off to raise heck. Slow down and read and understand what the unit is, what it’s supposed to do and how to use it. Sure, there are defective units. Name one product that doesn’t have a defective unit! There ain’t none. An old adage is that the squeaking wheel gets the most oil. I’ve had to send two units back for replacement. I’ve had tech support for other problem more than once and Garmin has always been there for me. They have never failed to help.
I think Garmin is far superior to other brands, having tried several myself and have stuck now with Garmin. Every company right now is having their problems. I think Garmin will continue to flourish and grow and the units will continue to grow too.
My only suggestion is that if you’re unsatisfied with your Garmin product, sell it and hit the competition. We’ll always welcome you back!

What I don't understand is how you think Garmin is superior to other brands when they can't get Software right, time after time, model after model on the Nuvi Line.

As I quote you below:

Since you didn't state how many units are involved with your squeaking and oiling, I will say one return is too many yet alone two. Then you call to tech support, was that also for the same unit? if not, don't you find it Amazing the problems you had with Garmin products and needed oiling? I do!

Another quote of yours below:

Please speak for yourself, I recommend that when you buy a product the first thing to do is read, read read the instructions. I wouldn't assume everyone is like yourself and only read instructions as a last resort.

Software is becoming problematic for Garmin, and it's going to end up costing them.

Ah, you are one who reads but does not understand. To quote you is a waste of time. Read. Comprehend. You direct your unfounded comments directly to me because you didn’t understand what I wrote. I see no point in making it any plainer than I have already done. It would again be a waste of my valuable time and would not help you.

Why don't you design a map, write the OS, test it all out and then give it to Garmin. You seem to know exactly what's wrong with Garmin so you shouldn't have any problem fixing it.

I have had a 750 for almost a year now. I can't believe how good it works and how much information is packed in less than 2 Gbit of memory. Is it perfect, it was made by man so it isn't perfect. There is room for improvement but I wouldn't trade it for a paper map for any amount of money (well, maybe a million dollars).

Instead of concentrating on what you perceive as problems, making yourself unhappy and attempting to make others unhappy, why don't you concentrate on what is right with the device?

Jack j

Nuvi 360,660 and 780 your three Garmins that have or had Firmware problems out of the Factory! And should in no way be tolerated at the inflated price Garmin demands.
If your time is so Valuable you should have steam coming out of your ears, you shouldn't have to deal with these problems to start with, you admitted to having problems at least three times, and two of them bad enough to need your Garmins sent back for repair or replacement, thats not a waste of your valuable time?

So maybe your talking about the directions not being read, Like I said speak for yourself, I happen to read them first then use a product, unlike maybe you?

Since you don't like to waste your valuable time, I did the leg work on your units below, just because you think your time is more valuable than others . Or just maybe you have your head in the clouds

Nuvi 360 firmware problems:
http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=61381

Nuvi 660 Stuttering problems (many sites with complaints)http://www.poi-factory.com/node/17208?page=7

Nuvi 780 stuttering freezing while speaking
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/19593

Preceived?
So it's ok that you Garmin GPS and has buggy software?
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/20585

I hope the moderators will close and/delete this thread.

Why is it certain people always revert to personal attacks?

I don't log onto POI FACTORY to read such dibble.

If you don't like Garmin ... don't buy one ... and please don't read the Garmins posts or write your heavy handed "i'm superior" tones.

It's just garbage

And it's always the same people who post

This thread is now closed

Miss POI