That you can ignore data and facts when you write one. I actually didn't see any hard data to support the claim. It's the "everyone who gets busted is guilty" and so we don''t even need a court system anymore argument. Just hang them.
But here in my state, the first intersection in the state was studied in detail and it was found that the accident rate of people running the red light and hitting someone did not drop yet once the pubic became informed about the camera after it had been installed and operational for some time, the accident rate due to rear end collisions increased 50%.
I've pulled out while the light was green and I had the right of way but was cut off by another driver. Now I'm out in the intersection and have to complete the turn, but the camera doesn't know I was already out, it only knows I Was late in getting done.
The article stated that the camera only takes the picture when you cross the line AFTER the light is red, so if you are sitting out in the intersection waitng to turn (in most jurisdictions this is legal) it will NOT take your picture. That is the way the light cameras work in the DC area also.
... http://www.chron.com/mm/ymap/lightcams/ then click on the camera icon that is on the right hand side of the screen. Watch the red light runners in the act.
When I clicked on the camera icon at Richmond and Dunvale, you can see a cop car running the red light!!! I kid you not. ( and no, he did NOT have any red lites flashing at the time )
I current own a Garman Street pilot that I had purchased in 1998, when they first came out. I am now looking to upgrade for obvious reasons.
I was checking out the Street pilot C530. I currently drive a 30 passenger limo-bus in the tri-state (NY, NJ, CT,) area. I do a lot of trips to Atlantic City, Foxwoods, and Mohegan Sun. Along with Red light cameras and speed traps; I am also seeking POI software that shows areas with low bridges. Does it exist?
This is exactly why I don't like the red light cameras. Not because I run red lights, I don't.
thehill wrote:
once the pubic became informed about the camera after it had been installed and operational for some time, the accident rate due to rear end collisions increased 50%.
First offense. THought I made it. I have heard the cameras actually detect your speed when approaching intersection and that is how the camera knows to take your picture. The picture are good 4 of them no doubt it was my car
-- Garmin 660; Nintendo DS soft carry case, YM, rd1chaos, Blackberry PIN 30154995, way too many gadgets to list here.
This thread proves that their is more emotion involved in this issue than facts. One side says it decreases redlight running, others say it increases rear end collisions and other say that it is a government conspiracy to increase revenue. All these statements are verified by unidentified sources.
Interesting enough they may all be true. The thread does seem to lose track of the poor folks who get hit by redlight runners and what if anything we should do about it.
The ultimate fact here is that people are breaking traffic laws and the underlying debate is based on who catches them.
If a police officer was stationed at these same intersections and observed the exact same behavior that the cameras record, the guilty parties would be just as guilty. The cites/counties would collect the same revenue and the laws would still be enforced. Life would be a little safer.
It isn't even a privacy issue since the US Supreme Court has ruled many times on the subject of the ( false ) "expectation" of privacy in public places. These cameras are not taking pictures on private property nor are the recording the actions of law-abiding drivers.
Nuf' said, and I vote we go back to making more POI files!!
The cameras in Costa Mesa, California take 30 frames. The system does use radar to anticipate cars that will run the light. The cameras start filming when the distance and speed reach certain limits. The 30 photo frames are viewed by a tech located at the company that owns the system. If the tech can see the front and rear license plates, the driver’s face and the vehicle has entered the intersection after the light turns red he sends all the frames to the Costa Mesa Police Department. An actual policeman must view these same photos to say that an offense has occurred. He then sends a violation to the Orange County Courts. The court sends a summons to the registered owner of the vehicle which will include 4 photos that will show the car in the intersection on red, the vehicle license plate and the drivers face.
The six cameras in Costa Mesa produce a minimum of one ticket per minute each 24 hour day seven days a week. Our illustrious city council stated that when the cameras were installed that all proceeds would be used for driver training. The city is making so much money that we will have another 6-8 cameras installed.
There have been studies - google for them - which support the common sense notion that short yellows produce lots of red light runners, long yellows drops it dramatically.
Most cities are too lazy to properly maintain the necessary yellow light timing which can be calculated, I've posted the formula. For cities, it is simply easier to collect automatic fines, rather than calculate, set and then maintain proper yellow light length.
Think about the length of a yellow and do a simple thought experiment. If the yellow was set at 0.01 second - could your stop in time to avoid running the light? No. So there is a real value in seconds for how long the yellow should be. Few if any lights in my city are set right - they are all given some nominal length not taking into account the speed of the road or other variables.
Hence my assertion that this is simply a revenue grab. It is nice propaganda to claim "public safety" - but it is all about the money.
The speed cameras worry me
The speed cameras worry me more.
I didn't have any issues
I didn't have any issues with drivers running red lights when I visited San Fran. I think it's just the writer trying to build a (BS) story.
readership
One has to make the article interesting to get readership.
I haven't noticed any difference compared to other places.
HarveyS - Nuvi 350
What this article proves is:
That you can ignore data and facts when you write one. I actually didn't see any hard data to support the claim. It's the "everyone who gets busted is guilty" and so we don''t even need a court system anymore argument. Just hang them.
But here in my state, the first intersection in the state was studied in detail and it was found that the accident rate of people running the red light and hitting someone did not drop yet once the pubic became informed about the camera after it had been installed and operational for some time, the accident rate due to rear end collisions increased 50%.
I've pulled out while the light was green and I had the right of way but was cut off by another driver. Now I'm out in the intersection and have to complete the turn, but the camera doesn't know I was already out, it only knows I Was late in getting done.
What the article proves??
The article stated that the camera only takes the picture when you cross the line AFTER the light is red, so if you are sitting out in the intersection waitng to turn (in most jurisdictions this is legal) it will NOT take your picture. That is the way the light cameras work in the DC area also.
follow this link...
... http://www.chron.com/mm/ymap/lightcams/ then click on the camera icon that is on the right hand side of the screen. Watch the red light runners in the act.
$380 Wow!
First offense. I thought my $100 fine was excessive.
Hey, that www.chron.com link was cool
When I clicked on the camera icon at Richmond and Dunvale, you can see a cop car running the red light!!! I kid you not. ( and no, he did NOT have any red lites flashing at the time )
dd
Yikes!
Some of those were very close calls!
B_P
Skip nuvi 660
And...
Some were actual collisions ( Chimney Rock at Southwest Fwy ) , not too bad but an insurance rate increase nonetheless.
there is also a Metro bus
there is also a Metro bus running a light.
Check the camera at Richmond
Check the camera at Richmond at Hillcroft
New to this web sight
I current own a Garman Street pilot that I had purchased in 1998, when they first came out. I am now looking to upgrade for obvious reasons.
I was checking out the Street pilot C530. I currently drive a 30 passenger limo-bus in the tri-state (NY, NJ, CT,) area. I do a lot of trips to Atlantic City, Foxwoods, and Mohegan Sun. Along with Red light cameras and speed traps; I am also seeking POI software that shows areas with low bridges. Does it exist?
Look under the "POI Files" tab at top
there are lots of custom POI files available on the site ... I have not used it, but there is a Low Clearane POI file.
Bingo!
This is exactly why I don't like the red light cameras. Not because I run red lights, I don't.
once the pubic became informed about the camera after it had been installed and operational for some time, the accident rate due to rear end collisions increased 50%.
$77 ticket
First offense. THought I made it. I have heard the cameras actually detect your speed when approaching intersection and that is how the camera knows to take your picture. The picture are good 4 of them no doubt it was my car
Garmin 660; Nintendo DS soft carry case, YM, rd1chaos, Blackberry PIN 30154995, way too many gadgets to list here.
No Sympathy For Redlight Camera Critcs
This thread proves that their is more emotion involved in this issue than facts. One side says it decreases redlight running, others say it increases rear end collisions and other say that it is a government conspiracy to increase revenue. All these statements are verified by unidentified sources.
Interesting enough they may all be true. The thread does seem to lose track of the poor folks who get hit by redlight runners and what if anything we should do about it.
Garmin Nuvi 660,Software Ver. 3.2, Audio 1.8, GTM 3.7, GPS 2.9, BT 2.4, NA Map v8: Mapsource; Cingular Treo 650
Agreed...
The ultimate fact here is that people are breaking traffic laws and the underlying debate is based on who catches them.
If a police officer was stationed at these same intersections and observed the exact same behavior that the cameras record, the guilty parties would be just as guilty. The cites/counties would collect the same revenue and the laws would still be enforced. Life would be a little safer.
It isn't even a privacy issue since the US Supreme Court has ruled many times on the subject of the ( false ) "expectation" of privacy in public places. These cameras are not taking pictures on private property nor are the recording the actions of law-abiding drivers.
Nuf' said, and I vote we go back to making more POI files!!
What say you?
dd
Red Light Cameras
The cameras in Costa Mesa, California take 30 frames. The system does use radar to anticipate cars that will run the light. The cameras start filming when the distance and speed reach certain limits. The 30 photo frames are viewed by a tech located at the company that owns the system. If the tech can see the front and rear license plates, the driver’s face and the vehicle has entered the intersection after the light turns red he sends all the frames to the Costa Mesa Police Department. An actual policeman must view these same photos to say that an offense has occurred. He then sends a violation to the Orange County Courts. The court sends a summons to the registered owner of the vehicle which will include 4 photos that will show the car in the intersection on red, the vehicle license plate and the drivers face.
The six cameras in Costa Mesa produce a minimum of one ticket per minute each 24 hour day seven days a week. Our illustrious city council stated that when the cameras were installed that all proceeds would be used for driver training. The city is making so much money that we will have another 6-8 cameras installed.
round and round on this
There have been studies - google for them - which support the common sense notion that short yellows produce lots of red light runners, long yellows drops it dramatically.
Most cities are too lazy to properly maintain the necessary yellow light timing which can be calculated, I've posted the formula. For cities, it is simply easier to collect automatic fines, rather than calculate, set and then maintain proper yellow light length.
Think about the length of a yellow and do a simple thought experiment. If the yellow was set at 0.01 second - could your stop in time to avoid running the light? No. So there is a real value in seconds for how long the yellow should be. Few if any lights in my city are set right - they are all given some nominal length not taking into account the speed of the road or other variables.
Hence my assertion that this is simply a revenue grab. It is nice propaganda to claim "public safety" - but it is all about the money.
___________________ Garmin 2455, 855, Oregon 550t