Reminder of end of Windows 7 support

That depends on the company producing the AV product. Norton for instance, and somewhat dependent on the product, is still offering users of Windows XP updates of the definition file that enables it to detect viruses and malware. They do not upgrade the actual product, just the definition file(s). The product is placed in "maintenance" mode.

The complete list of their products and compatibility back to Windows XP can be found at https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/k....

I resisted Win 10 on my 2015 laptop that had a free upgrade.

Now I use it simply because our corporate standard is 10. It's not good but funny how we got used to it.

Glad I have 7 Pro on my personal laptop.

Microsoft came out with an Android phone--what does that say about Windows? lol

it's 50/50 today, but by 2023, in industry all the mobile devices will be 70% android. Even those fancy panels outside the conference rooms where you can touch and reserve the room are android.

well yes the ink is high dollar, but on my last 2 printers both cannons, i have used 1ink for all my ink, decent cost compared to name brand ink and it works just as good as mine did with name brand ink. you might look into it .... just saying to try to cut down your ink cost.

Switch to Linux.

I was bored yesterday evening so I wiped out my Win 7 Home laptop hard disk and installed Win 10 Home. I did the upgrade in 2015 when Microsoft offered free Win 10 but reverted to Win 7 a few days later. I was just curious if Microsoft still honors the free upgrade license today.

As soon as I get connected to the internet, the status changes to "Windows is activated" so there it is, they still honor the free upgrade license. I don't really like Windows 10 but it's good to know that I can continue to use it with Win 10.

I updated a month or so ago using one of the free ways to get Win10. I use it with a program called Classic Shell so the display etc looks like Win7. Very happy with it so far.

Good to know! Thanks for the info.

What do you mean "one of the free ways to get Win 10"?

Did you upgrade to Windows 10 a few years ago when Microsoft offered free upgrade for a period of time?

Easy to still upgrade from Win 7 to Win 10. See my reply on page 1 of this thread.

Clean install works fine on my laptop.

You're asked to enter a key during setup but you can leave it blank and click Next to move on to the next step.

No keys needed.

I boot off USB setup media that I created. Format the HD (it contains Win 7 installation) and clean install Win 10. It activates fine as soon as it connects to the internet.

I did an upgrade once 4 years ago but reverted back to Win 7. It's likely that Microsoft already has my laptop in their activation servers. I want to test this on a Win 7 PC that has never been upgraded to 10 ever.

I posted earlier and those comments remain.... I will stick with W7 due to Hardware and Software limitations....

However,I'm also taking another approach too...

In the past... You'd run software on your system to protect you from bad sites, virus's, malware, etc.... This runs on your Operating Software.... And can expire with your OS Support. Each Computer has it's own software to protect it...

You might, also, even have a router to prevent pokes and prods to your IP from being replied to by computers behind the router...

WHAT IF: You could combine the two... Software that protects computers from bad sites, and Router that prevents pokes and prods, into the ROUTER?

That One device would scan all incoming and outgoing packets and drop them if needed.... protecting the computers behind the router!

This takes processing Power... and in past this processing power has slowed down web surfing in addition to being $$$.

And what if this Program, running on the Router, was FREE, with Daily Updates!

Early this year I retired my router and replaced it with such a new one.... It's Software/Firmware wasn't up to snuff at that time, but is relatively solid now.... It supports daily checking for updates, and does not slow down Ethernet or WIFI speeds, and in fact is faster on Ethernet and WIFI than my prior Gigabit speed Router! It also has an OS that daily scans itself for issues, checks for updates, etc...
And you can configure devices easily to NOT Access the WEB! (For example, I've "Denied" Web access to multiple Security Cameras...)

It does examine all incoming and outgoing packets for bad stuff and drops them if needed.... Machine Smarter than Operator!!!

Once W7 isn't supported, I'll be running software on computers as long as the software supports the W7 system, but, by moving Packet Level examination from Computer to Router, and the Router is then Supported and updated daily......

To me it seems like a Win-Win Solution!!!

Software had some bugs early on, and has a couple minor ones now, but it's becoming a very solid device.... and OS and Programs that run on it will be supported longer than W7.....

Sysnology RT2600ac is the router I'm talking about.... and Threat Prevention is the software package that examines incoming and outgoing packets, without dropping Speed...
My $.02

Yes!! Virtually all issues are solved by rebooting.

If you simply use an office productivity suite and casually surf the internet you do not need Windows.

There are some propriety programs that do require the use of Windows. Nevertheless, some of these programs may no longer function (become obsolete) under Windows before Window 10. In that case, users will be-out-of-luck.

I wiped out my hard disk (format) that contains Win 10 version 1511. Use Win 7 to create USB setup with Win 10 version 1909. I clicked "I don't have a license key" when asked and continue to finish the setup. Windows activates successfully. At this time I'm sure if you have updated once in the past (when Microsoft offered free upgrade to Win 10 for eligible OS), even if you changed your mind and went back to Windows 7 or 8, you don't need a key to install any version of Win 10. Just download and install it. It'll activate successfully.

No, but there are still ways to get it for free, some posted in this thread.

https://news.softpedia.com/news/time-is-running-out-for-wind...

The clock is ticking for Windows 7, as Microsoft is projected to stop servicing this OS version on January 14, 2020.

A previous upgrade to Windows 10 isn’t necessary. You can directly upgrade a valid version of Windows 7 using certain procedures, one of which is the MS Media Creation tool or follow my steps I outlined on page 1 of this thread. When the upgrade is performed, it looks for a valid Windows 7 product key and if found the process will proceed. As far as I know the same process occurs for Win 8.

Personally I recommend that prior to doing this, you download and install Belarc Advisor and run it on your PC. It does a wonderful job of retrieving most if not all your product keys. On some rare occasions I have found this to be beneficial. Usually this happens with clients that do a Windows 10 clean install and then can’t find the disks to reinstall MS Office.

why don't people do a screen dump of serial numbers and digital numbers and put them all in one place after they "PRINT" them on paper so if a hard drive dies all they have to do is go to a web page and download their programs re enter their numbers ! ive heard so many people wine about loosing their hard drive and their software are we just getting lazy, I have all of mine since windows 95 I also do a backup every 3 months on a separate drive, if you value your computer stuff protect it!

I doubt if they are lazy.

They just take a computer for granted and never worry about it failing.

Backups? When I tell people I auto-backup all my PCs weekly to a network drive. They get that "deer in the headlights" look. No clue, and think it's all OCD.

Then when their computers fail, they want me to look at them.

That is something I have not tested, upgrade a Win 7 PC that has never been upgraded to 10 ever. I'll do that later.

I'm a computer geek. I don't use media creation tool. I do it manually by using 'diskpart' to clean a USB flash drive, create primary partition, format it and make it active. Then extract the ISO, copy/paste the content to the (bootable) USB flash drive.

Thanks but no thanks to Belarc. I am against using third party software. I have the product keys of all Win 7 PCs that I have ever owned. No third party software needed to extract keys. Also, newer PCs now contain the OS license keys embedded in the BIOS.

You have to keep in mind that not everyone is a "computer geek" (your choice of words) and I tend to address my comments to the general users that need help. You may have the product keys "of all Win 7 PCs that" you have ever owned by I would venture to guess that 80% of the forum users don't, nor do they know how to get them.

By expressing your concern about Belarc Advisor that shows to me an element of paranoia. Belarc Advisor is one of the most respected utilities out there for determining what you have. For personal use it is free and can readily be uninstalled. It very rapidly builds a detailed profile of your installed software and hardware, network inventory, missing Microsoft hot-fixes, anti-virus status, security benchmarks, and displays the results in your Web browser. The results can also be printed.
Belarc Products are also used by the Federal Aviation Administration, NASA, and the entire Department of Defense.

You should try Belarc Advisor, you might be pleasantly surprised. The URL is https://www.belarc.com/products_belarc_advisor.

As to the Windows 10 Product key being embedded in BIOS, you are 100%
correct. That actually came about sometime in Windows 8 and only applies to some machines that are relatively new. It may not apply to an older Win 7 machine that has been or will be upgraded. It is in the registry but is difficult to find and may not actually be readable without some help. But to someone doing the upgrade from Win 7 to Win 10, they won't know the product key until the process is complete.

Belarc will also extract product keys from older products like the MS Office Suite of Word, Excel, Outlook, etc. These can be exceptionally useful if the user can't find or never had the installation media.

Well John it does show that One of us is not PC Savvy as you say. Have you ever heard of sectors on a hard drive. Well after awhile some go bad that is a great reason to format and "Wipe out everything on that drive". if it finds bad sectors it makes itself a note to skip those when doing a fresh install. As far as defrag goes it isn't needed nowdays windows takes care of that. This was copied from the article you mentioned :
Clean install of Windows 10

If you have a custom computer or you want to start from scratch with a clean installation of Windows 10, you can opt to format the hard drive and start with a clean install of Windows 10.

There are many advantages performing a clean install of Windows 10. For example, a clean install is an opportunity to start fresh from scratch without any bloatware and trial software that might have come pre-installed with your system. You will also regain control over your apps, as you can now install only the applications you need, and you'll also start with a brand new and clean Windows Registry.

Also, your chances of running into errors and other issues will significantly be reduced. If your PC had any software or hardware issues, doing a clean install likely resolves any problems.

Hope this makes you a little more "PC Savvy". Your welcome....Stan393

Formatting disk during installation isn't what you think. It will marks bad sectors only if they were already marked by previous installation.

Formatting during install is usually "quick format". That means system is erasing only partition table, without checking disk surface. Full format can take - depending on disk size and system speed - form tens of minutes to hours.

Quick format was introduced as default with Windows 95 (or around this time). Right now it's standard formatting if you use windows graphical interface. It's meant to quickly erase disk and let user do his thing without waiting sometimes hours to finish full format with disk surface checking.

If you are concerned about bad sectors or disk errors then run a CHKDSK command on the old system or run one during startup to fix problems.

Some people run a full write test of 1's and 0's to completely wipe a disk for security reasons. Not a normal thing to do.

I don't see why any of this is necessary UNLESS you know the disk is having problems. My option would be to replace the disk IF it is having problems. They are cheap, even for a 1TB drive.

Even Laptop drives are easy to replace.

Of course this assumes you take backps to reinstall the OS to the new disk. If not then.....

Microsoft wants people to have a good experience when installing Windows 10 clean or updating from Windows 7.

When you use the clean installation method of updating Windows 7, the drive is automatically formatted and essentially something like chkdsk is run on the drive to isolate all bad sectors. At any time you can run the chkdsk command to do essentially what Windows will do automatically. You can usually view the results with the Event Viewer. The command line would be chkdsk [drive letter] /f /r /x. The “/f” parameter tells CHKDSK to fix any errors it finds; “/r” tells it to locate the bad sectors on the drive and recover readable information; “/x” forces the drive to dismount before the process starts. Running this command sometimes will take 15 minutes, maybe more; it depends on drive size and the number of errors found. The formatting and this command is what will comprise the often encountered time interval when installing (or updating) Windows.

In upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 10, if you elect to update (keep files, apps, etc.) the formatting of the drive is not done. If it was everything would be lost.

The chkdsk command will read each sector and check for read errors. If it gets a error, it will attempt to read the data over and over to get a copy without a error. If it does it will move the data to a new sector and mark the old sector as bad. This process can take a long time, often several hours. That is when people get concerned because they think they've screwed things up.

Also, many of the programs you might think you need Windows for are available for free under Linux. Office, accounting, games, CAD/EDA software, etc. I recently set my Mom up with Ubuntu and she absolutely loves it (she's 91). Try it out for yourself before dismissing it. Best of all, no more rebooting!

Have a great week everyone.

- Phil

I have used Turbo Tax to prepare my state and federal taxes for many years. I received a message from them recently warning that they could not guarantee the safety of my 2019 tax return information if I continue to use Win 7. They strongly recommend an upgrade to Win 10.

Turbo Tax will continue to work with Win 7 but data safety will be a concern after Microsoft discontinues support for it in 2020.

What I received a few months ago was that Turbotax was not supporting Win 7 and the software was not available at all. I painfully updated to Win 10.

This is the email I received:

" Dear Valued TurboTax Customer,

At TurboTax, the security of our customers' data is a top priority. We work hard to safeguard your information, so you can file worry free. However, keeping your information safe is a shared responsibility and using safety measures and good practices to protect your home computer can go a long way in protecting your privacy and data.

As of January 14, 2020, Microsoft will no longer provide security updates or support for PCs running Windows 7. While you will still be able to install TurboTax for Tax Year 2019 on Windows 7, computers running on Windows 7 will be more vulnerable to security risks and viruses. To avoid these risks, Microsoft recommends that Windows 7 users upgrade to Windows 10.

To help safeguard your personal information, like your Social Security number and bank account information, we strongly recommend that TurboTax customers using Windows 7 upgrade their operating system before installing TurboTax or switch to TurboTax Online.

How do I know if my computer is on Windows 7?

For instructions on how to find out what version of Windows your PC is running on, please visit our Windows 7 End of Support FAQ, here.

If your computer is currently on Windows 7, we recommend that you take one of the following actions:
Update your operating system For options on how to update your operating system, please visit our Windows 7 End of Support FAQ, here.

OR

Switch to TurboTax Online You can easily transfer your 2018 TurboTax return into TurboTax Online, so you won't lose any information. Learn how to switch to TurboTax Online for tax year 2019, here.

If you have additional questions about TurboTax and Windows 7, you can call us at
800-4INTUIT.

Respectfully,
Sarah Kim
Vice President, TurboTax "

I'm not sure if PC or MAC makes any difference though.

For TurboTax users running Win 7 who don't want to upgrade to 10:

https://www.intuit.com/support/windows-7-end-of-life/

TurboTax for tax year 2019 and QuickBooks 2020 will install on Windows 7. When TurboTax for tax year 2020 and QuickBook 2021 are released, all TurboTax and QuickBooks desktop products will cease installing on Windows 7.

I finally took the plunge and upgraded all but one of the machines:

1. The W7 Home Edition HP laptop that is for my special-needs stepson. That went pretty easy, only one piece of software did not make it through the W10 upgrade. BUT I reinstalled it with the original disks & key, so I do not know why W10 choked during the upgrade.

2. The W7 Home Edition HP desktop from 2010 was a struggle. The upgrade failed (MS could do better at identifying the problem for the failure) because of the Linksys USB WiFi adapter, with drivers from 2015. So I had to bring the whole desktop configuration downstairs to the router and run an Ethernet cable for a direct connection, then it upgraded.

BUT the drivers for the motherboard Nvidia graphics that W10 installed would not give the proper screen resolution and I could not find anything online that worked so I pulled a Nvidia card from a parts PC I have. Then had to get a HDMI/VGA cable to connect the monitor to the card and after downloading a new driver from Nvidia that problem was solved.

Once that was done I plugged in the Linksys USB WiFi adapter again and it immediately crashed the system. Linksys does not have a W10 compatible driver to download to replace the default W10 driver. So that meant either buy a WiFi card or find another USB adapter that was W10 compatible. As luck would have it the parts PC also donated a PCI-E WiFi/Ethernet card and that problem was solved.

3. The W7 Pro Lenovo T-420 laptop upgraded to W10 Pro on the first try. I did this via the Ethernet connection "just in case". I had to download the Nvidia driver to replace the W10 driver. Again it was a resolution option that the W10 driver did not support.

4. I have yet to try the upgrade on the W7 Home Edition desktop from 2011. I may try that after the holidays just to see what software W10 chokes on and will not run.

Summary:

When the first upgrade choked on the Acronis True Image 2013 software. I upgraded all the machines to the 2020 version.

Drivers-drivers-drivers! I went though each W7 machine and upgraded the drivers to the latest versions before attempting a W10 upgrade. But in MHO some of the W10 drivers are not up to par. After all the systems were upgraded I went back in and upgraded drivers again, finding at least 3 or 4 that upgraded over the W10 drivers.

Making W10 look, on the surface, like W7 takes some work. Especially the privacy issues. I ended up deleting a lot of the W10 installed crap-apps with ccleaner uninstall because the W10 apps delete would not allow them to be deleted.

Of course, now that I've got 3 upgrades up and running, I have been asked by friends/family to upgrade 2 other machines. Geez, when will this end!

That's a pretty clear statement. And reasonable. They're probably predicting internally that Windows 7 use will tail off before the end of 2020, and they don't want the support headache and chance for security issues in trying to continue to support Win 7 for TT 2020 (which will be released a year from this posting and on into 2021, covering tax year 2020).

I wish they would start letting me upgrade all the win 7 machine in the business. But one reason is they have many legacy application that cant even run well under win7. we even still have programs that run under XP, so I have to set up a virtual machine with XP running for those programs.

I will get them to Win10 if it kills me! lol

We still use Windows NT 4.0 Server and Workstations. XP is too advanced compared to those.

As Field engineers we tried to get our customers to upgrade but it sometimes also needed another very expensive piece of equipment to go with it. The other problem was that we couldn't get the original computer that would work on our application. To top that off, I was the only one in Upstate NY that could rebuild the software and repair them. I retired 2 years ago. I wonder how the computers are now? Not my problem!

My wife and I have a desktop system that is our main PC. We got it about 5 years ago with Win7 Pro. Earlier this week, I created a new partition and did a clean install of Win10 Pro so it runs in dual boot mode.

This way we are able to keep doing work with Win7 and in between times I boot into Win10 and do things like install device drivers and the software programs (excuse me, old terminology) "apps" that we use.

So far, so good. I'm just having a huge learning curve with the new GUI and finding the settings. Oh yeah, and doing things like shutting up Cortana.

I have an older laptop that can't be upgraded so I just plan on buying a new one with Win10 already installed.

HowToGeek has many articles about Windows 10 annoyances:

https://www.howtogeek.com/t/windows10/

https://www.howtogeek.com/269331/how-to-disable-all-of-windo...

https://www.howtogeek.com/356642/how-to-fix-all-windows-10%E...

https://www.howtogeek.com/219034/here%E2%80%99s-what%E2%80%9...

Been spending a lot of time on How-To Geek and also Windows Ten Forums https://www.tenforums.com/

Also lots of Googling.

Installing the apps is usually pretty quick. What takes soooooo long is manually checking the settings/options I had set under Win7 and then manually duplicating them under Win10. Lots of re-booting to switch between the 2 OS's. Sometimes there are Registry keys I can export/import, but not always. I have to make it look and work as close as possible to Win7 or my wife will be all up in my face.

Plus, I only get a couple hours a day to work on it since she is on the machine so much for business.

This ⬆️
First program I load after a W10 install.

https://www.ccleaner.com/ccleaner/download

Go to "Tools" > "Uninstall" and get rid of anything you don't use.
Much easier and faster than the Microsoft method.
Also good to check after major updates.

I did the dual boot thing when I first installed Win 7 many years ago. I don't recommend it and certainly didn't do it when I moved to Win 10 shortly after that one came out. Dual boot was more of a confusing timesuck than a help for the reason you identify. It's kind of like slowly peeling off a Band-Aid in a painful, hairy location; you may be better off just ripping it away and moving straight on to Win 10. If you have legacy software or hardware you must have that you can't replace and will not work in Win 10, that's different, but just to get used to Win 10 slowly, I don't recommend it.

Win 10 can be set up to behave very much like Win 7. Here's a good howtogeek webpage for that idea:
https://www.howtogeek.com/277448/how-to-make-windows-10-look...

ClassicShell discussed in the article is *highly* recommended for this purpose, with no new annoyances introduced. If you prefer Win 7's GUI (graphic user interface) to Win 10's, try out ClassicShell.

I absolutely hate Windows 10. Who wants to scroll through a million tiles to find the program that I am looking for? I need a magnifying glass to see the screen. Every keystroke is sent to Microsoft and the government.

I'm never without CCleaner. Great utility. Also love Revo Uninstaller.

Yesterday I ran into the first legacy program that wouldn't install in Win10. Not compatible. After some Googling, I found a help forum topic that explained my problem to a tee. A workaround was given that worked for me but it is very involved and explained how to upgrade the old version data files to the last compatible version but even that is now considered "legacy." The GUI of the newer version is totally different and I'm going to have to spend a lot of time learning it.

If I had tried to do an upgrade from Win7 to Win10, this would have screwed me up, big time. That's why I wanted to do a clean install of Win10 even though I knew it would be a long, involved process.

Thanks for the info!!

I've had 3 programs that w10 would not install during the upgrade from w7, but the upgrade told me that and kept on going. Easier to upgrade THEN figure out why those did not install.

After upgrading 3 machines (with 3 more to do) I personally could not see doing a clean install which meant a lot of extra work. If you had just let the upgrade continue, your end result would have looked like w7 on the surface. Less work.

I have dozens of clients that bring in PC’s for an upgrade and wanting a clean install. I prefer the upgrade (keeping settings, etc) and always offer to do that, and if they don’t like what they get then I will do a clean install. Keep in mind that after a clean install, after an upgrade you might need a few things, and maybe nothing.

Yesterday, my wife (busy doing other things) let me have the machine for most of the day. Made great progress. I'm close, real close to making the switchover.

For a new Windows 10 installation, these are the settings to change:

https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/windows-10-settings-to-c...

I spent hours disabling services to limit the amount of data shared and even with that it's never 100%. I agree. I still have Win-7 on desktop and Win-10 on laptop (touch screen). I know there's a lot of money in analytics but the days of getting sued for invasion of privacy seem to be out the window. The laws can't catch up with the technology.

Good information at that site!

Gary A, I will be doing what you are doing in two weeks, so I am following what you are doing. Two identical PCs with Windows 7 will be formatted and a clean install of Windows 10 will be done.

dobs108

I was using win 7 and did a clean install to a separate drive about a year ago. I never got around to finishing it up. I just did and I feel it was better to go with a clean install. It allowed me to boot W7 if I needed and to also get rid of a lot of clutter in the computer. It’s operating fairly well as I get used to the numerous idiosyncrasies in W10.