Subaru Forester No More (Still have the Garmin Nuvi 650)

We have friends with a Tom Tom based NAV system in there new vehicle. There only comment has been "WE CAN'T BELIEVE HOW TERRIBLE THIS THING ROUTES". They have gone back to using their Nuvi.

My 2019 Subaru Forester has the Starlink Multimedia Device with Android Auto, not Navigation. However, I think loading POIs in Navigation can be done. The key is whether the GPS will recognize content formatted correctly in a USB flash drive in one of the two USB ports below the HVAC controls.

2019 Subaru Navigation uses a TomTom-based GPS, HERE maps and junction views. According to the Subaru Multimedia manual, maps for the 2019 Forester can be updated by WiFi or USB. Page 196 says: "Map updates made using a USB memory device will update map information for all states. Please visit Subaru.com for more information and the latest updates."

The theory is that, if the USB port can be used for map updates, it can be used for loading POIs.

Start with all the pages on this site about TomTom:
http://www.poi-factory.com/learn/tomtom (and others)

How to add content to your TomTom:
http://us.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/13903

How to update maps using the USB port:
https://www.subaru.com/content/dam/subaru/starlink-owners/Su...

https://subaru-maps.com/#/usermanual

Good Luck!

dobs108

one would think that mapping is a commodity now. Glad to hear everyone was ok and you were able to replace the damaged vehicle.

Did that last night, it worked for a map update. Don't know about POIs, will require further study.

However, be aware that there is a significant time lag between buying the new Subaru and when it is recognized as being "available" for a map update. Our time lag was about 4 weeks.

Here is the website: http://www.subarumapupdates.com/index-en-us.html
Additionally a pdf cheat-sheet: https://www.subaru.com/content/dam/subaru/starlink-owners/Su...

Finding the website took a bit of doing, but once found its very easy to save as a stored bookmark.

I looked into that (Android Auto) but, I was told, when I went to download, that my Android tablet was incompatible. Always an unexpected roadblock. Oh well.

Looks like we are about to find out. We have not been in a navigation situation yet, were we would really be "pushing" it. Next big trip.

We do not know what format the custom POI files should be in on the USB drive, and what part of the settings menu on the GPS is needed to access the POI files.

Remember we are speculating. This has never been discussed on this site as far as I know. It is an experiment.

We could start with a single TomTom OV2 file on the USB drive without a folder, Rest Areas with Restrooms. Search through the settings menu on the GPS to see if it recognizes the file on the USB drive. Try both USB ports. If it cannot be imported to the device, then try the same file in a single folder.

Another (Garmin) method that I think would be unlikely, would be to create a GPI file on the USB drive. Start with the CSV file and use Garmin POI Loader to load the USB drive instead of the GPS. I think the TomTom will not be able to read the GPI file.

The third method would be a combination of the first two. Start with the TomTom OV2 file and use the TomTom MyDrive Connect on the PC to load the USB drive instead of the GPS. The question is, what folder structure is needed in the USB drive to imitate a TomTom GPS?

Also, I don't know whether MyDrive Connect modifies the OV2 file into something else or simply loads it as-is. If it's as-is we don't need MyDrive Connect.

dobs108

http://download.tomtom.com/open/manuals/new_GO/html/en-gb/in...

I did the obvious simple experiment of downloading the Rest Areas file using the TomTom option and placing it on a USB device. I didn't really expect it to work, it didn't; but it was worth it as a simple test.

As I have been reading some of the posts related to the TomTom, I get the impression that they are exclusive to stand alone TomToms, NOT in-dash units. I have yet to stumble across a post that discuses how a POI file can be imported into an in-dash unit.

That is right. After all my Google searches, loading POIs to in-dash units is not mentioned. It was the same situation with Honda GPS, and mgarledge figured it out. See her FAQ:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/42862

Not that a Honda/Garmin would be anything like a Subaru/TomTom, but it shows we can figure it out.

On the TomTom website, Subaru Starlink Navigation is an official configuration. How about searching TomTom support for loading POIs for Starlink?

There is one situation where the in-dash would behave like an OEM. In one thread, the OP brought a laptop to the car and connected it to the USB port. That worked, but it wasn't a TomTom.

dobs108

Got one hit that was posted in 2014 with no responses. Gave me a thought to try TomTom tech support. TomTom tech support, just pushed you into the TomTom "community". There may be a solution there. Too late in the night to be registering/searching this site.

https://discussions.tomtom.com/en/categories/built-in-car-na...

I'm not familiar with how TomToms operate, I have all Garmins. In Garmins you can 1) load individual POIs under your FAVORITES or you can 2) compile/load thousands upon thousands of POIs in files via the POILoader program under EXTRAS and 3) load ROUTES. The POIs loaded under 2 do not show up under your FAVORITES but instead creates a file/lookup structure under EXTRAS. Routes likewise show up under their own ROUTES icon. I am guessing here that TomToms have something similar.

On the file format
If it is possible to load a POI from a USB stick I would think it is also possible to export 1 or more POIs and possibly trip data back to the USB stick. Note that the export option may only show up in the menu system after a blank USB stick is installed. If you can export, the file should be a good example of the format used.

Multiple POIs are the problem
The FAVORITES icon usually has a limit of 500, 1000 or maybe 2000 POIs if you're lucky. Again, I am guessing TomToms have the same. With all of these GPSs installed in vehicles it sounds like you can barely store a POI much less a route. So where would all the thousands of POIs get stored or display on the screen.

I was lucky enough to figure out the format on the Harley Davidson Boom GTS to send a POI to it and it showed up under the SAVED icon. There is some info available for this. So away I went trying to figure out how to load a file with my tens of thousands of POIs to the unit and bricked the GPS. It apparently tried to enter the tens of thousands of POIs under the SAVED icon which has some undocumented limit, guessing maybe 1000.

So do any of these vehicle GPSs have the capability to store a single POI outside of the FAVORITES, SAVED or the equivalent icon area. If not only individual POIs can be loaded into the SAVED icon area if you can figure out the format. Very Limited.

P.S. - I was able to recover the GPS by getting into the Diagnostics after a reboot, then navigating to the Master Reset. Data Resets didn't fix a thing. Afterwards it was like turning it on for the very first time. I had plenty of play time that particular day. I bricked the unit a few times prior with errors in my formatting of a few single POIs. So this GPS is not very forgiving in file format structure or number of POIs installed, it just bricks itself.

My advice is to hang on to your Nuvi in the Subaru glove compartment for now and take a few longer trips out of your immediate area with the Subaru before deciding what to do with your Nuvi.

There are obvious advantages such as convenience and a cleaner look to in-dash navigation systems. But as you spend more time with yours, you may decide the Nuvi (or a cellphone-based solution) works better for you than your in-dash nav in some ways.

Now I don't know how Subaru handles this, but disadvantages include (for most car manufacturers) very pricey and possibly inconvenient map updates compared to free lifetime maps on a Nuvi. If you don't update, chances are good that the great majority of mapping directions to a street address will work fine say, six years from now. But what may start to become increasingly problematic, if you're not paying for updates, is the retail, gas station, lodging, etc. data which tends to go out of date faster than road mapping.

Also YMMV depending how Subaru does this, but my last in-dash nav purchase was with a 2015 Nissan. One time I programmed in a route to a town 150 miles away from home, in a small-town area in North Carolina. Not deserted farmland by any stretch. Lots of other traffic around, in comparison to roads I've driven in the Mountain time zone where one can drive an hour or more without seeing any other vehicle (and have no cellphone coverage either). So on this route I programmed in NC, the in-dash nav system calculated a correct arrival time and didn't warn me of any problem. But half an hour from the destination, the in-dash nav announced that it had no map data for the area I was now in and was "ending route guidance. Follow all posted speed limits." No more "turn here" etc. Thanks a pantload Nissan. Map data can be incomplete for these in-dash systems compared to what you're used to with Garmin.

Now keep in mind, if you rely solely on something like Waze or Apple Maps on a cellphone, those maps can conk out on you at key times as well out on low-population areas, especially if you want to program a new route in an area with no cellphone coverage, though Waze and Apple Maps certainly had map data for my route in NC. Also, it's questionable how long Garmin is going to continue to support their Nuvis with updated maps. Many here think Garmin is moving away from standalone GPS. Even their legacy "lifetime map" units have an out in the terms of service that indicate Garmin's concept of lifetime may be quite shorter than yours, at least when it comes to updating its maps. They can essentially bail at will if they get out of the standalone GPS business.

Anyway until you see how you like your in-dash nav, I suggest you keep your Nuvi or a road atlas and a cellphone in your new car.

My advice is to hang on to your Nuvi in the Subaru glove compartment for now and take a few longer trips out of your immediate area with the Subaru before deciding what to do with your Nuvi.

There are obvious advantages such as convenience and a cleaner look to in-dash navigation systems. But as you spend more time with yours, you may decide the Nuvi (or a cellphone-based solution) works better for you than your in-dash nav in some ways.

Possible issues with POIs have been discussed.

I don't know how Subaru and Tom Tom are on this, but disadvantages include (for most car manufacturers) very pricey and possibly inconvenient map updates compared to free lifetime maps on a Nuvi with Garmin Express. If you don't update, chances are good that the great majority of mapping directions to street addresses will work fine, say, six years from now. But what may start to become increasingly problematic, if you're not paying for updated maps, is the retail, gas station, lodging, etc. data which tend to go out of date faster than road mapping.

Hang on to the Subaru long enough, and map data updates will become impossible, or the screen may die and be impractical to replace.

Searching for a destination can be more user-unfriendly and buggy with some in-dash systems than your Nuvi or cellphone.

Also YMMV depending how Subaru does this, but my last in-dash nav purchase was with a 2015 Nissan. One time I programmed in a route to a town 150 miles away from home, in a small-town area in North Carolina. Not deserted farmland by any stretch. Lots of other traffic around, in comparison to roads I've driven in the Mountain time zone where one can drive an hour or more without seeing any other vehicle (and have no cellphone coverage either). So on this route I programmed in NC, the in-dash nav system calculated a correct arrival time and didn't warn me of any problem. But half an hour from the destination, the in-dash nav announced that it had no map data for the area I was now in and was "ending route guidance. Follow all posted speed limits." No more "turn here" etc. Thanks a bunch Nissan. Map data can be incomplete for these in-dash systems compared to what you're used to with Garmin, and you may not find that out until you're midroute.

Now keep in mind, if you rely solely on something like Waze or Apple Maps on a cellphone, those maps can conk out on you at key times as well out in low-population areas, not so much midroute but rather when you want to program a new destination in an area with no cellphone coverage. But Waze, Apple Maps, and Nuvi certainly had turn-based directions for my route in NC. Also, it's questionable how long Garmin is going to continue to support their Nuvis with updated maps. Many here think Garmin is moving away from standalone GPS. Even their legacy "lifetime map" units have an out in the terms of service that indicate Garmin's concept of lifetime may be quite shorter than yours, at least when it comes to updating its maps. They can essentially bail at will if they get out of the standalone GPS business.

Anyway until you see how you like your in-dash nav, I suggest you keep your Nuvi or a road atlas and a cellphone in your new car in case it seems to strand you as ours did at an inconvenient time. Backups are good to have.

Traveled to Denver last week and our rental car was a 2019 Subaru Legacy - most unusual! The car was fun to drive and performed flawlessly.

We had prepared for Android Auto by saving places on Google Maps. The car had an 8 inch display that looked very good. With the GPS running on my phone, connected to the car with a USB cable, navigation was perfect and the uncluttered screen was easy to see. The car stereo amplified spoken directions.

One more thing we should have done was download an offline map. At certain times we were inside structures like steel bridges or under buildings along the route.

Android Auto was a home run!

dobs108

I posted a question on the Subaru forum to see if anyone knew if custom POIs could be loaded. At the time of this posting, there were 198 views of my question. No encouraging responses. Worse than that, only one person responded.

https://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f77/starlink-naviga...

I have not yet signed-up to the Tom_Tom forum to research it. Indications, so far, are not good.

Great things come from tragic situations!

A bright spot. We are going to visit Texas in the near future, but we will be flying. The Garmin Nuvi 650, as it is portable, will be able to come along. Still useful after all these years!

Rental cars that we have had do not come with any navigation devices.

Most of the major rental companies will offer to rent you a GPS for some ridiculous daily cost. We just carry one of our Garmin devices when we need to rent a vehicle.

Now we wait for a response, if ever. (TomTom website)

Up to 360 views (as of today), on the Subaru website with no positive response.

saw a brand spanking new one this AM, must have been redesigned. Man was it ugly. I have to think it's my tastes that are out of touch lol But in my eyes that is a very ugly vehicle.

Remember back in the day (10 years ago) they would call certain cars boy racers? Those are the only words I can think of to describe it.

Hold onto the Nuvi. In-dash systems only cost $$$ to update them and then you are disappointed anyway. In my Acura I use a custom Proclip mount. It is a bit on the expensive side but fits absolutely perfectly with no drilling etc. and is a [perfect custom fit like it was part of the original vehicle.

Try looking here to see if it suits you.:

First the base unit:
https://www.proclipusa.com/vehicle/dashboard-mounts/3571-sub...

Then add the Nuvi ball mount:
https://www.proclipusa.com/device/gps-holders/garmin-nuvi-65...

The in-dash unit is a TomTom. The question is how to install custom POI on the in-dash TomTom.

My Nuvi 650 is an old window mount unit. I will still be keeping it. Good for use on trips where I cannot take my car, but must use a rental.

It's been over a month now since I started looking into this issue. As of today, the view count on the Subaru owner's website is 799 with no positive responses.

On the TomTom's Built in car navigation user forum, there have been 47 views, as of this posting. Again, no positive response.

I just updated the maps on my Forester's in-dash TomTom. That went well. Used the opportunity to re-test installing a custom POI file. That failed. The in-dash unit did not recognize the presence of a file on the USB drive.

In thinking about it a bit. The in-dash GPS unit has no option for importing a file. Seems strange considering that the media center allows the selection of input devices for features such as music and phones.

On the 2 new, both 2018, chevys I found that the priority for the USB port is music on a dedicated flash drive and for phones. They want you to use Android Auto or the Iphone version of that for anything else.

Don't even try to understand Corporate thinking...... except for the money motavation, of course.