no longer use the Garmin

Although I agree that Google on your smartphone is a good alternative to a dedicated GPS, I just want to point out that my Nuvi 3597 always offers 3 route choices, or attempts to. I always use the Faster Time setting and the Nuvi will offer that route all the time, the shortest distance route if one is available and a less fuel route if it calculates a route that is different than one of the other 2.

and I am not 100% sure, but it appears that google is absolutely 100% real time, prior to calculating. meaning, I will exit the navigation (or not even have it on) prior to coming up to a major route possibility (should I take 95, 76, etc.), and redo it, to see what's going on traffic-wise, and the multiple routes.

There is no true way of verifying, but if google says 76 is +11 min due to an accident, there's a really good chance that's accurate. I have ignored it before, because I don't want to totally rely upon an app, only to see my arrival home was delayed by the same number of minutes that it said, basing upon the original arrival time if the other route was chosen.

If we had two cars in an experiment, we could determine the validity of what they show....

imho the writing is on the wall, the time is coming when folks will not spend $100-$150 for a separate gps unit. It's like when digital cams emerged, do you behave like Kodak? Or Nikon/Canon....(Leica forget it altogether you're out only the purists would buy your gear)

If my eyesight were as good as it was 20 years ago, I would consider using my smartphone as a nav device. Unfortunately, I can neither see the small screen nor manipulate the touch screen icons at a distance safely while driving.

It is also difficult to hear spoken directions with the device mounted on the dash. If I hold the device closer to view it, in my state, I run the risk of getting pulled over for texting while driving.

Maybe in my next life, but for now, the 5 and 7 inch screens of my Nuvi's serve me very well.

Obviously, there is a lot of personal preference with these devices but if the smartphone nav setup works for you, great! Go for it.

Since I just got my 3597, I am wondering how did you get it to show you all 3 route Choices? I only see the one and it is what I have set in my Preference setting. I am trying to learn all about this thing.

... if it's like my 2508, having done a Where to and selected your destination before you hit Go tap on the button that says Routes ... you then get shown up to 3 options.

After I realized I hadn't used the Garmin in over 6 months because I either used my Samsung phone with a 5.7" screen or the built in nav in my car I sold it on eBay.

I use the Google maps, HERE maps or my Garmin Viago app on my phone depending on what I need at that time. I have to say I used Google maps on my last trip to Phoenix in a friends car and Garmin Viago on the trip back and both worked flawlessly and were easy to see the map and here the directions which were very detailed.

I still prefer the built in one in my car because the turn info is displayed in the heads up windshield display in addition to the nav screen and that is very valuable not having to take my eyes off the road in heavy freeway traffic.

I use Google maps when I drive for Uber, and let me tell you, at least in my area Google is not good for routing deep in residential areas. The Garmin is much more accurate. I use the Garmin as my backup and it has saved me several times

if it considers traffic, how accurate is it...just wondering....what's at stake here is potentially 20-45 min sitting in a car standing still, that's why whatever works best is what I'll use....

I actually fall into this category. My 1300 is still very capable despite being long in the tooth, but when it finally dies I won't spend money replacing it. Why?

1. Ignoring the fact that I have a 200W and 255W as backup devices, if I needed a dedicated GPSr I could take one of the three older smartphones that is currently sitting unused on my desk, install a GPS app (and maps) and go. Some of them, e.g. Sygic, even have custom POI support.
2. My next vehicle is likely to have an infotainment system, meaning a smartphone can interface with it using Android Auto, and thus utilize the GPS app or Google Maps to provide directions. So long as the GPS app can interface with Android Auto of course.

That's fine if you navigate 'on the fly' but until systems are seamless I'll continue to use my Garmin. I can sit and plan on my PC then send it to my Garmin. With digital traffic here in the UK traffic is excellent. Nothing beats it.

Garmin is free, Garmin is easy to use.

Waze is free, data is free. What's your point? The Garmin...you had to buy. My company supplied my phone. It's truly free. Let's talk features, and less about cost.

...didn't really care for it. Phone is to small and not easily seen from a distance. However, I do like my GPS's and they work just fine for me. Tried Waze; didn't like it either. I will use Google or Here on my phone to find something, but I don't use either for navigation while driving. As the old saying goes; Whatever floats your boat.

You just have the wrong phone, or more accurately, the wrong screen size for a phone. A phablet (5.5" and up) screen is better suited for standalone GPS usage due to the larger screen size.

The advantage of Android Auto is that after connecting the phone to the head unit, you use the head unit's screen to navigate. Those screens are roughly 7" - 8" in size.

We go to many places where you don't get cell service. But then we don't have a smart phone ...... just a dumb one.

I agree with maddog, a phone is a phone and should do THAT well. A GPS is developed to be a GPS and should clearly do that well.

I find that the problem with trying to do too much with too little is that we have to settle for too much less for everything(i.e. battery life).....particularly when both activities are simultaneously being used .

(e.g. Jack of all trades, master of none!)

For those who do not see a problem with that ....great!

My activities still require the flexibility that these two units offer independently.

Mobile apps can do many other things than PNDs, especially in terms of syncing to your contacts, calendar, etc. so that you can start navigation a lot more easily than with a PND.

All of the major internet map sites have MobileOS mapping/Nav app counterparts, including
Microsoft "Windows Maps" Win10 app
"HereWego" Android & iOS app
Google's "Maps" Android & iOS app
"MapQuest" Android & iOS app

The first three allow map data to be stored locally ("offline maps"), which means a navigation will continue without any data connection.

This also means Wi-Fi only tablets work fine as long as they have a GPS receiver.

These three also allow new trips to be planned without any data connection too but with some limitations: typically they find any manually entered street addresses just as well as if online, and can read addresses of any "saved places" but usually there are limits to finding other places by category or keyword search. Google's "Maps" app shows its typically complete set of POIs on the map, and allows any visible POI to be easily selected for navigation (but only for the destination; selecting any point on the map for an intermediate step is different & much more cumbersome than the way it works on google.com/maps)

MS & Here use a conventional map download by state/region/country. Google's "offline map" scheme is more limited, but it is good enough regional areas (saving larger map areas is much more tedious). MapQuest only caches the current navigation locally, and apparently still only does that on iOS, not android.

There are also other Mobile OS mapping/Nav apps by mainstream PND makers, including TomTom (iOS & Android), Magellan (Roadmate iOS), Garmin (StreetPilot iOS) & Navigon (iOS & Android), but they are more-or-less just ports of their PND software to a different OS, using the same proprietary map data as their PNDs and have mostly the same legacy-style UI their PNDs have.

Note: Garmin Viago was discontinued less than a year after

I tested all of these (except Viago) couple years ago, and found them to be lacking for any user accustomed to how map sites like google.com/maps work. introduction. They also seem to have ongoing trouble killing the bugs that keep cropping up because they don't have control over the hardware & OS like they do on their hardware PNDs.

Lastly there are also Mobile OS mapping/Nav apps by not-well-known developers (Sygic & MapFactor are two examples, but there are others with more generic names). They typically use a variation of freely available Open Street Map (OSM) data, which is one reason they are cheaper. For the most part, these have legacy-PND-style UIs and that combined with the usually less-accurate OSM map data is probably why every time I've tested these (again) I end up thinking "Why did I waste my time testing this POS again?"

At the risk of pissing off fans of other systems, And Google's map data is just plain better and more up to date than ANY of the others, especially in terms of the detail used for local search/discovery.

Meanwhile the navigation component of Google's "Maps" app has steadily gotten better in terms of the detailed info and voice guidance it provides . It's still not as good as a mid range PND in terms of offering bells & whistles (e.g.: no automatic zoomed-in Junction View, no truck or RV optimized directions), but it does what it does do well enough that you really don't need that other stuff.

Those who complain about GoogleMapsNav being too hard to see on a phone screen do have a point. Part of the problem is GoogleMapsNav has to work on a lot of different devices, with different physical screen sizes and resolutions. The GoogleMapsNav UI is really not optimal for a small hi-res device (it's pretty easy to see on a ~10" tablet, though).

That brings up something I haven't mentioned yet:

ALK CoPilot.

CoPilot was around in its original form long before Google's "Maps" app and while it also has a legacy-style UI, it's not nearly as bad as PND maker's mobile OS apps. I have tested & used CoPilot since 2011-2012, around the same time I decided S&T was itself on a dead end journey. CoPilot does have a few drawbacks, though, and I'm still working through those.

But that one thing CoPilot DOES get right compared to GoogleMapsNav, MapQuest, etc, is it the easy-to-see design of the Nav screen. Young people who can see all the fine details on other apps might think CoPilot's nav display is cartoonish, but older folks will appreciate it. And keep in mind one key factor: almost all mobile OS device have much higher resolution (meaning many more pixels) to work with than a typical PND. Even Garmin's glass screen PNDs pale in comparison to 1920x1200 -to-2560x1600 tablet that you can buy for about the same price.

Some on here might find this thread (FWIW, I'm the OP) interesting:
http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/5658-who-wants-help-design-all...
It has a lot of long posts, but they are that long mainly because they go into a lot of detail about what does, and does not, work now. The goal of this thread is to devise a way to fill the now-unmet needs of former Streets&Trips users (and those who might be using something like if MS hadn't stopped meaningful development a decade ago), which is to say, those who need more than navigation for a short trip that begins now.

Bottom Line, for those whose eyes glaze over at such a thread-hogging TLDR-post, here's the short version:

For the typical user who needs navigation for a short trip that begins now, google's "Maps" app is very difficult to beat, especially when you consider the ease with which it syncs up with events on your calendar (if you use google's Calendar app) or your other notes (if you use google's Notetaking app)

For those who need more than that, here is what appears to be the way forward at this point...

Android: Furkot or equivalent (trip planning)->Copilot (navigation of long distance trips) & "HereWego + ???" (navigation of short trips/detours that begin now)

Windows: Furkot or equivalent (trip planning)->Copilot (navigation of long distance trips) & "Win10Maps + ???" (navigation of short trips/detours that begin now)

OK, I hope somebody will find this useful.

To me, I have to have both. Google maps and Garmin units have their advantages and disadvantages. Neither are perfect.

Google can sometimes take you around and around or up and down sketchy roads and in direction it thinks it's best just to save a theoretic minute or two.

Many times Google's addresses don't work right but it has become better; street names are often pronounced incorrectly, with abstract forms of their names that most people won't know and in duplicate; map data is subject to human error because it takes fellow users to report and correct data whether it's good or bad.

When travelling and I don't have an internet connection, carrying a GPS around is a no brainer for me. Sure, now you can install maps offline using Google maps but you always run into map size issues etc. Sometimes Google won't allow you to download offline maps for certain regions which is ridiculous. For that, one has to resort to other options such as using HERE maps or buying a mapset for that country from Garmin.

Because the way Google is run, nothing can beat Google in terms of updated POIs because it's updated at a faster rate by users. GPS software manufacturers cant compete here. Garmin did something foolish and partnered up with Foursquare with outdated POIs instead of Yelp.

Overall I find Garmin maps and Google maps compliment each other much like a mustard compliments a hot dog. I wouldn't have one without the other.

In my area, Waze is pretty much garbage. Besides, the developers rendered the app more or less impotent because you can no longer see a list or reports around you.

Dumb phones typically have better reception and coverage then smartphones.

For one thing, not every auto manufacturer has Android or Apple Car Play. Toyota, and Mazda for starters. Both Android and Apple infotainment systems have received much criticism due to issues and reliability.

If you have an old smartphone, charge it up and try using your apps in particular GPS. In my case, it's enough to want to throw the devices against a concrete wall. That's why I had to upgrade to an iPhone 7+ from an iPhone which died on me because I was foolish one day when I charged at a Best Buy kiosk.

On using a smarphone, what if you are on a call (using bluetooth, of course?) How does the navigation work then?

Your company provided phone and data plan may be free to you but for most of us, they are not.

but obsolete AT&T commercials, where AT&T users were able to talk and surf, but Verizon customers were not.

Verizon has emerged as the 1,000# gorilla, and wins all around, on everything, except price. Heck they even replaced that can you hear me now nerd with Jamie Foxx.

I love my Nuvi 3597 but I would love it if the route option feature showed the proposed routes, like mapquest and google (on a pc, I have not tried the apps). As a backup to the GPS, I check online and print out the rout that I want to take, in case it is different from the GPS route (which is not always the most intuitive route)

This is why I prefer to plan long trips on a large display.

It's very difficult to see exactly where a cross-country route is going on the small screen of a typical PND, or even a ~5" phone (which is almost always higher-res than a similar size PND).

The conventional solution is to use products that use the same map data and routing engine for both trip planning (on a website) and navigation (on a mobileOS app). Examples include:
www.bing.com/mapspreview -> Microsoft "Windows Maps" Win10 app
www.wego.here.com -> "HereWego" Android & iOS app
www.google.com/maps -> Google's "Maps" Android & iOS app
www.mapquest.com -> "MapQuest" Android & iOS app

Another way: Garmin's (oddly named) "Basecamp" trip planner (Windows) along with a Garmin PND, but I've tried the then-latest version of "Basecamp" several times over the years, and always come away with the impression that Basecamp is not a user-friendly substitute for any of the big four above.

Lastly, Furkot.com allows trips to be planned using google's maps, and can export .gpx for newer Garmin PNDs, automatically inserting something like 50 via points per route segment in the .GPX, which typically forces the Garmin PND to follow the same route planned on the website.

Thanks for posting this. There are a lot of great comments on this thread.

Short trip Google is much better but long trip I rather have my Garmin.

I agree.

Phil

Not just that. Google's other main advantage comes from sending a fleet of cars out to actually drive all the roads and capture a lot of data & photos.

I think a few of the others (maybe Here and TomTom?) are (or were) trying to do that do, but even if they are, google probably has many many times more "street view" cars on the road than the others combined.

One of the Google street view cars was in the Chandler Fashion Mall in Chandler AZ this week, actually taking pictures etc. within the mall parking areas. Four Google people in a white SUV that had a butch of cameras and other equipment attached to it and the Google logo on both the rear quarter panels.

...and that's a big reason why they rule this space. The others fall short when it comes to detailed map data like this.

The real-world consequences are like these two examples of CoPilot providing directions to the residential neighborhood BEHIND the intended destination:
http://imgur.com/a/HSi8n

Not only can you not get to the POI from there, if you're in a large vehicle and if CoPilot guides you in from the opposite direction (where you might not see the POI's signage), which it did in both cases shown above, you might not realize the directions are wrong until you're facing a cul-de-sac in your 40' RV.

MapQuest is also particular bad about doing that, and for a similar reason: a lot of their location data stops at the nearest major street, and for POIs in a large shopping center, that might be too far away to see your intended POI's signage.

My new Caddy has android auto and I very much like it for all its features voice command texting and calling and music as well as the navigation BUT it doesn't have red light cameras or Speed Cameras or the 2 dozen other POI's I have loaded on my Garmin and it is funny when everyone asks me why I spent a ton of money on a Cadillac and don't have navigation I say I do I have both but I keep the Garmin for the POI's until I can install them into the car there will always be a Garmin GPS in my vehicles!

POIs and proximity alerts will not work on Google Maps anytime soon, if ever.

dobs108

I can see using Waze on a smart phone - you'll get good traffic information.

What about red light cameras and speed cameras?

What if you get text messages and phone calls and then miss a turn?

Depends on whether or not there's a solid object in front of you when a text message or phone call causes you to miss your turn.

I don't expect to replace my vehicle for several years to come, just as I expect my existing GPS receivers to last several more years. I thought I made that abundantly clear, but I guess not. Your comments on Android Auto, while true now, may not remain so in the future, especially as my post is looking forward into the future.

Comparing your iPhone to my S4 is rather funny, as the current iPhone only now has the hardware muscle found in my Galaxy S4 from 2013. In fact, any Android device from the last three or four years can run a GPS app without issue. The S4 is from 2013 and has no problems with any GPS-enabled app. This includes Google Earth, with its 3D buildings that older devices would choke on due to the devices only having single-core processors and less than 1GB of RAM.

With decent-quality midrange Android smartphones being priced at $200 out the door, unsubsidized to boot, even if my existing smartphones bogged down to the point of being unusable I could buy one that would be able to easily run up-to-date GPS apps. At that price point, does it make sense to purchase a GPS receiver in the future?

...even a lot less than that
https://www.att.com/cellphones/samsung/galaxy-express-prime-...
Galaxy Express Prime 5.0" 1280x720 SuperAMOLED display & quad-core CPU is EASILY capable of running any nav app
New (retail ): $129.99 / (on sale): $79.99

I just tried out the latest version of TomTom for Android
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tomtom.gpl...
...last night and I'm very impressed. Last time I tried it was when it was first available on Android several years ago, and at the time it had some bugs, although it had the best voice guidance of any nav app like it.

They've totally revamped the UI since then, and are using the same UI on the latest TomTom "Go" series hardware PNDs too. Among other improvements, it uses a single-line address entry like all the online map sites. No more first the state, next the city, then the street name.

TomTom has a google.com/maps style trip planning site
https://mydrive.tomtom.com/en_us/
that allows routes to be sent to mobileOS device running the TomTom app or to their newer PNDs.

The TomTom GPS Navigation app is well worth a look if you have an Android device.
It has a unique fully functional trial: free for trips totaling up to 50 miles per month.
So that's a different kind of trial period: limited in distance, but it renews.

My only complaint is, beyond that trial it uses a subscription model: $22 for 1 year or $50 for 3 years. That makes it more a lot more expensive over time than ALK CoPilot or Garmin StreetPilot.

It's AT&T, meaning a non-starter for me. For the average person who may not give a damn it will do the job, but AT&T locks bootloaders, meaning I won't touch it. I'm one of the few in the US who no longer purchases phones subsidized from carriers but either directly from the manufacturer, or from the manufacturer through Amazon. I fully expect to be able to modify my devices as necessary.

That said, taking a look through Amazon, there's a whole bunch of new devices in the $50 and up range. Refining the search to get rid of the crud should pull up a decent device that can easily run a GPS app and not cost an arm and a leg.

Refined Amazon.com search for smartphones

P.S. Installing the HERE app gives you Garmin-quality mapping without busting the wallet.

There are a lot of 4.5" 800x480 phones available for around $50 (which is pretty amazing in comparison to a $25 dumb phone)

I got a 4.5" 800x480 SuperAMOLED Galaxy Core Prime for a friend earlier this year, and it was effectively free after a $50 mail-in rebate. It's a prepaid phone with no service obligation. I have 3 grandfathered TMo legacy plans that cost as little as $10 per YEAR for service, and the minutes never expire, ever, as long as the I keep renewing the account.

I just gave that one as an example of a step up (5" 1280x720 SuperAMOLED display & decent quad-core CPU) because you mentioned mid-range and a $200 price point.

There are small tablets that will do the job as well, and then being locked to one phone carrier isn't an issue.

I have TomTom running now on an LG GPad II 8.0" 1280x800 tablet (2 years old and not all that fast), and the hardware is definitely fast enough and the GPS is plenty accurate.

Compare that to a top-end TomTom PND, which maxes out at 6" and 800x480 (though their low-end resistive touch-screen models are 908x480)

About the only other Android apps that are (potentially) comparable to a Garmin PND in terms of nav functionality & accuracy are CoPilot and Navigon. I've recently tested CoPilot and found its inaccurate maps and nav instructions to still be a major drawback. Navigon is pretty good in those areas, but last time I tested it, TomTom was better.

BTW, if you think Here is Garmin quality, you must not like Garmin too much. Here *IS* a great value (it's free after all) but (to name just one example) as it stands now, Here won't even announce street names (unless you have the Hi-Fi voice files they stopped offering), much less provide junction view, or any POI alerts (it does flash a small visual warning if your speed is higher than what it thinks the posted limit is).

It's difficult to justify $200+ on a new 6" 800x480 PND when you can get the same nav functionality (and more versatility) on a phone or tablet (larger, easier to see), even if you never use the phone service, or use it on a cheap pre-paid service.

I have a company iPhone with unlimited data and I still use my 1390T.

Here is Garmin-quality because Garmin maps are derived from Here data. All the other stuff you mentioned is app related and has nothing to do with the maps. That said, there are plenty of options for offline GPS use. Some good, and some not so good.

I know I cannot justify spending $200 when I could head to the right Walmart, find a cheap Alcatel from Straight Talk for $30 (clearance) and use that for a navigation device. While I said $200 because I was thinking the midrange, which means a quad core processor with 2GB of RAM and usually 16GB storage, a low-end device will still work well for a GPS. Which is why my 1300 is the last dedicated GPS receiver I will buy.

I find google maps to be much, much more up to date than the maps on my Garmins.

If it didn't use my data up on the phone, I'd use google maps any day of the week over the Garmin unit.

on long road trips I like Garmin I can glance at it when I'm driving and my wife likes that it also tells you where to turn before you get to it , when on short trips around town and walking the droid is handier as it also talks to you and has poi's . my wife drives more then I do so in the passenger seat I can look at the screen and tell her how far something is ! so it is according to where your going as to which one to use and which is the easiest to use at the time .

Just got back from a trip. Would have been so much better with the Nuvi 2450. Could have had more information at my fingertips...

and use my phone (Google Maps/Here) as a supplement. Sometimes the phone is better with newer roads/developments but overall my Garmin 2558 is my preference.
If I'm out an about in my personal vehicle it is easier to just grab the phone and use google maps but this is rare when I have to use it.

... Use my Garmin too, far more convenient and visible. Easier to load speed camera warnings also.

This has been one of my test routes for quite a while. It's a tricky route that's intended to find flawed routing algorithms.

Fundamentally, this test is not just about the one route. It is one of several that help to determine if a routing engine is reliable, so that the user count on it to not produce an unexpected result, reducing the need to scrutinize a route overview (like was par for the course more than a decade ago. It shouldn't be that way now).

START:
1200 Main St, Imperial, MO 63052

END:
Whitehaven Welcome Center
1845 Lone Oak Rd, Paducah, KY 42003

Then replace that END with either one of these:
204 Largo Dr, Nashville, TN 37211
1530 Collins Avenue, Miami Beach, FL 33139

The *only* default routing that was correct for both the short trip and the longer trip was Google Maps.

All the others (except for Streets & Trips 2013) changed to an entirely different route when either of the two farther destinations (Nashville or Miami) replaced the first one (Whitehaven Welcome Center, which is as close to being on the way as you're going to find)

I don't have a Garmin to test so I can't comment on how well it handles long routes, but Here, Bing & TomTom didn't pass this test. TomTom did not pass an even easier test discussed here:
http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/5660-new-tomtom-gps-navigation...

Fans of "HereWeGo" (formerly "Here") should check this post, because it was the worst of all those tested on this tricky route:
http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/5658-who-wants-help-design-all...

Even though I have given my kids their own garmin's they still prefer to use their cell phone as a GPS. I have never really used my cell for other than having it with me in the car for emergencies. Old fogey I guess that does not want to change.

Then again, kids will only text and almost refuse to talk on the phone. I must have fat fingers or am not patient enough, but texting drives me nuts.

My Smartphone, will never replace my trusty, custom, dash mounted Garmin. Sorry, but in bright sunlight, while even when parked, I'll take the Garmin with all my pre-loaded POI's from this site any day over trying to deal with Google maps, Google search, Siri, etc on a smartphone.

I have no reason not to use it. it never does me wrong.