Agency Aims to Regulate Map Aids in Vehicles

 
--
If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else. - Yogi Berra

in some ways

this strikes me as classic "nannyism" but there is the underlying issue of people who don't seem to consider the consequences of their actions and then refuse to take responsibility for their actions.

--
"In order to be old and wise, one first must have been young and stupid."

I don't see a problem here

Of coarse the Gov knows what's best for us, that's why they are in charge.

Problems

windwalker wrote:

I don't see a problem here. Of coarse the Gov knows what's best for us, that's why they are in charge.

and

Box Car wrote:

this strikes me as classic "nannyism" but there is the underlying issue of people who don't seem to consider the consequences of their actions and then refuse to take responsibility for their actions.

I detected a bit of sarcasm in windwalker's comment, so -in line with Box Car's thought - I would ask windwalker who should be "in charge" of air traffic control, for instance.

Incoming

Yeah, there will probably be a big regulatory fight over this in the years to come. At least until Google's robotic cars take over, LOL. Outlawing handheld cell phone use and texting is the foot in the door that will eventually lead to arguments about all electronic devices, including built-in GPS units and sound systems. The thing is that voice-controlled devices aren't really any safer than the handheld units that require finger operation. You're distracted and prone to more accidents just the same, according to most of the research so far.

--
JMoo On

Kill the nanny

Box Car wrote:

this strikes me as classic "nannyism" but there is the underlying issue of people who don't seem to consider the consequences of their actions and then refuse to take responsibility for their actions.

Agreed on both. Unfortunately, all of this nannyism tends to create people who refuse to take responsibility for their actions. Just like raising a child, you need to let them fail so that they can learn how to succeed. Problem is, it's hard to go back from where we are now, the laws have created so many irresponsible "I need you to tell me what to do" citizens, that removing the laws will likely create more deaths. And before you say "natural selection", keep in mind that these folks have been trained by those laws to act in this manner. Additionally, they're bound to take plenty of others with them.

These new regulations are also a great way to potentially attack applications which alert for red light and/or speed cameras.

Your joking, I hope

Privatize, get rid of the overpaid lard butts that can't be fired. Let the Airlines run it, they have the incentive to make it work!

No - I was serious

windwalker wrote:

Your joking, I hope. Privatize, get rid of the overpaid lard butts that can't be fired. Let the Airlines run it, they have the incentive to make it work!

Ok, let's think about this for a minute.

How many of the aircraft do the "Airlines" control?
Unless, the answer is "All of them" then I hope you will agree that I was not joking.

I will ask you also about all of the "drones" that are about to explode on the scene. Farmers wanting to observe their crops, etc. Are the "Airlines" going to gain control of them?

What's Next?

Last Mrk wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/16/business/agency-aims-to-regulate-map-aids-in-vehicles.html?_r=0

I wonder just how far government regulations will go with in vehicle electronic devices. With most new vehicles today, the entire dashboard is an electronic device. Will it become illegal to turn on your A/C or Heater? How about your wipers and headlights? It seems to me interfacing with any of these essential controls is no less distractive than pushing a few buttons on a map navigation screen. I see no difference whether that screen is a smart phone, dash mount or in dash GPS. If mounted and used correctly, none of these devices violate the DOT's existing “2 / 12 second” rule. Years ago, I remember seeing drivers trying to read folded road maps while on the highway. Do we go back to that?

Thankfully, so far, no one seems to be proposing an outright ban on in vehicle navigation devices, at least not yet.

Listening to music, drinking coffee and conversing with other passengers also contribute to distracted driving. Perhaps not visually but certainly mentally. Do we ban radios, cup holders and require passengers to wear muzzles? Electronic navigation devices are a relatively small part of the overall problem.

While I agree anti texting and hand held cell phone legislation is appropriate, I think a little reality and common sense should be considered by our legislators.

End of rant.

in partial answer

bdhsfz6 wrote:
Last Mrk wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/16/business/agency-aims-to-regulate-map-aids-in-vehicles.html?_r=0

I wonder just how far government regulations will go with in vehicle electronic devices. With most new vehicles today, the entire dashboard is an electronic device. Will it become illegal to turn on your A/C or Heater? How about your wipers and headlights? It seems to me interfacing with any of these essential controls is no less distractive than pushing a few buttons on a map navigation screen. I see no difference whether that screen is a smart phone, dash mount or in dash GPS. If mounted and used correctly, none of these devices violate the DOT's existing “2 / 12 second” rule. Years ago, I remember seeing drivers trying to read folded road maps while on the highway. Do we go back to that?

Thankfully, so far, no one seems to be proposing an outright ban on in vehicle navigation devices, at least not yet.

Listening to music, drinking coffee and conversing with other passengers also contribute to distracted driving. Perhaps not visually but certainly mentally. Do we ban radios, cup holders and require passengers to wear muzzles? Electronic navigation devices are a relatively small part of the overall problem.

While I agree anti texting and hand held cell phone legislation is appropriate, I think a little reality and common sense should be considered by our legislators.

End of rant.

In partial answer to your 'rant', the issue isn't really about operating the controls for the heater, wipers, radio or AC as it is about the human interface. Putting all those controls onto a touch screen device requires an operator to focus on the screen to find the correct screen position rather than reaching for a button or knob with tactile feedback.

Reaching for a rotary knob to adjust temperature with indents to mark the movement is one thing that really doesn't cause a significant distraction. Sliding a finger along a panel and watching a digital display is a different ballgame altogether.

--
"In order to be old and wise, one first must have been young and stupid."

@bdhsfz6, I would ask for your feedback

bdhsfz6 wrote:

...
I wonder just how far government regulations will go with in vehicle electronic devices. With most new vehicles today, the entire dashboard is an electronic device. Will it become illegal to turn on your A/C or Heater? How about your wipers and headlights? It seems to me interfacing with any of these essential controls is no less distractive than pushing a few buttons on a map navigation screen
....
End of rant.

Assuming that you have owned your vehicle for at least a week or so, I would be interested in your feedback on what effort it takes for you to turn on your headlights or wipers. My feeling is that you can do either in about a second and that you do either without ever taking your eyes off of the road. I'll bet you operate your turn signals without any thought at all.

Changing your heat/AC setting probably does result in a quick glance for you to get your hand on the correct control - but if you wanted to, you could find the control without looking I'll wager.

On the other hand, pushing a button on a "touch screen" requires a significant investment of time and effort on my part. I must admit that the distraction from driving is significant. That is why I prefer for the front seat passenger to make necessary changes.

Minor "distractions" are a good thing.

bdhsfz6 wrote:

Listening to music, drinking coffee and conversing with other passengers also contribute to distracted driving.

For me the real problem is not distraction, it’s boredom. On long drives I need to talk, eat, or whatever to stay awake. A little stimulation goes a long way to keeping me alert.

Now needing to focus on reading something is a problem because it takes too long to physically focus during which time you are not watching the road. For me the two most problematic things to read are the speedometer and road signs in unfamiliar neighborhoods. Note they are things you are supposed to do when driving. My GPS goes a long way to fixing both of those.

Every Driver is Entitled to Their own Opinion

jgermann wrote:
bdhsfz6 wrote:

...
I wonder just how far government regulations will go with in vehicle electronic devices. With most new vehicles today, the entire dashboard is an electronic device. Will it become illegal to turn on your A/C or Heater? How about your wipers and headlights? It seems to me interfacing with any of these essential controls is no less distractive than pushing a few buttons on a map navigation screen
....
End of rant.

Assuming that you have owned your vehicle for at least a week or so, I would be interested in your feedback on what effort it takes for you to turn on your headlights or wipers. My feeling is that you can do either in about a second and that you do either without ever taking your eyes off of the road. I'll bet you operate your turn signals without any thought at all.

Changing your heat/AC setting probably does result in a quick glance for you to get your hand on the correct control - but if you wanted to, you could find the control without looking I'll wager.

On the other hand, pushing a button on a "touch screen" requires a significant investment of time and effort on my part. I must admit that the distraction from driving is significant. That is why I prefer for the front seat passenger to make necessary changes.

In my case I own 3 newer vehicles and being retired, I don’t drive that many miles. It takes me longer to locate the various controls now than when I commuted using the same vehicle.

The turn signal isn’t a problem since its location is standard. Just about every other control is different between vehicles and requires some visual interaction since many are controlled by an in dash touchscreen. My GPS and smartphone are moved from vehicle to vehicle and are familiar to operate regardless which vehicle I’m using.

I agree the front seat passenger is best suited to operate any electronic device. My wife is always the navigator whenever she’s with me.

I realize driver and vehicle conditions vary as well as an individual’s point of view. As stated in my post, this is simply my opinion. The intent was mainly to question the necessity of excessive government regulation. It was not intended to cause offense.

Interesting Article

Thanks for posting this article.

Ah Yes, The Human Interface

Box Car wrote:

...
In partial answer to your 'rant', the issue isn't really about operating the controls for the heater, wipers, radio or AC as it is about the human interface. Putting all those controls onto a touch screen device requires an operator to focus on the screen to find the correct screen position rather than reaching for a button or knob with tactile feedback.

Reaching for a rotary knob to adjust temperature with indents to mark the movement is one thing that really doesn't cause a significant distraction. Sliding a finger along a panel and watching a digital display is a different ballgame altogether.

Apart from the root cause of humans being easily distracted by any of a number of things, I think you have identified a significant contributor to the problem.

I have rented several cars recently that do not have tactile controls for basic functions such as AC, windshield defroster and radio. All controls were on a touch screen. It got a little exciting one night when it started to rain. While I found the wipers easy enough, I finally had to pull over to the side of the freeway to figure out how to turn on the defroster. Since I was traveling by myself, I couldn't ask anyone else to do it for me. I probably should have done a better "pre-flight" of the controls before leaving the rental car lot, but it wasn't raining then, it was late, I was distracted...

It its wonderful having new features technology provides (automatic windshield wipers, automatic temperature control, etc.), but the designer's integration of the human interface is occasionally suspect. One wonders if they considered having to use those controls under real driving conditions. shock

--
Shooter N32 39 W97 25 VIA 1535TM, Lexus built-in, TomTom Go

Does anyone know what this means?

No ... know what it 'really' means! rolleyes

More Regs means more confusion

The laws and regulations in this country are getting out of control. Of course it's a moneymaker for lawyers though as they defend those who think that the law is unjust or poorly defined.

The changing technology is great, but there is no standardization on control locations. My wife's car has a lot of gee-gaws and I have to constantly ask her where the heck something is when I drive it.

--
Metricman Nuvi 660, GTM-20 Traffic Receiver Nuvi 3597 GTM-60 Traffic Receiver Williamsburg, VA

Agree ... down with boredom

zeaflal wrote:
bdhsfz6 wrote:

Listening to music, drinking coffee and conversing with other passengers also contribute to distracted driving.

For me the real problem is not distraction, it’s boredom. On long drives I need to talk, eat, or whatever to stay awake. A little stimulation goes a long way to keeping me alert.

Now needing to focus on reading something is a problem because it takes too long to physically focus during which time you are not watching the road. For me the two most problematic things to read are the speedometer and road signs in unfamiliar neighborhoods. Note they are things you are supposed to do when driving. My GPS goes a long way to fixing both of those.

There are places we travel that I certainly don't need Jill to tell me where to go, or what POI is coming up, but I too, need that bit of boredom distraction in order to keep alert, eyes open, and not missing the next potty stop.

--
Garmin nuvi 2460LMT (2)

what's really confusing

Shooter wrote:
Box Car wrote:

...
In partial answer to your 'rant', the issue isn't really about operating the controls for the heater, wipers, radio or AC as it is about the human interface. Putting all those controls onto a touch screen device requires an operator to focus on the screen to find the correct screen position rather than reaching for a button or knob with tactile feedback.

Reaching for a rotary knob to adjust temperature with indents to mark the movement is one thing that really doesn't cause a significant distraction. Sliding a finger along a panel and watching a digital display is a different ballgame altogether.

Apart from the root cause of humans being easily distracted by any of a number of things, I think you have identified a significant contributor to the problem.

What's really confusing about this supposed push to limit connected devices in vehicles is on of the US DOT's biggest technology programs going on right now. The DOT is developing a means for cars to talk to cars and for cars to talk to devices on the side of the road under the Connected Vehicle Program. The units installed in cars will have indicator lights, speakers and possibly display screens set to display messages and warnings.

http://www.its.dot.gov/connected_vehicle/connected_vehicle.h...

So, almost in true governmental doubletalk, one side wants to do away with distractions while the other side is spending millions to add more devices that can cause distractions. Go figure.

--
"In order to be old and wise, one first must have been young and stupid."

Agreed

zeaflal wrote:

For me the two most problematic things to read are the speedometer and road signs in unfamiliar neighborhoods. Note they are things you are supposed to do when driving. My GPS goes a long way to fixing both of those.

Agreed... absolutely. But I'd be surprised to see a serious move to outlaw the driver **looking** at a GPS, though when it comes to regulations, common sense can take a back seat.

I think it's the driver making data entries or changing settings on a GPS particularly with fingers while driving that would draw regulatory fire as a distraction. Some municipalities at least have regulated not just handheld cell phones but handheld electronic devices, but I'm unaware of a court upholding this as applied to GPS; in the case mentioned in the OP's linked article, prosecution of electronics use as applied to GPS didn't hold up in court on appeal. Most users don't hold a GPS unit anyway--it's usually on a stand or holder of some type.

--
JMoo On

funny

just wanted to chime in!
there is some awesome and funny comments!
love it!

Not handheld

dagarmin wrote:

.... Some municipalities at least have regulated not just handheld cell phones but handheld electronic devices....

Do you think it could be an exclusion that the Nuvi is not a handheld device? It's attached to the car and not being held in our hands.

I would hope

johnc wrote:
dagarmin wrote:

.... Some municipalities at least have regulated not just handheld cell phones but handheld electronic devices....

Do you think it could be an exclusion that the Nuvi is not a handheld device? It's attached to the car and not being held in our hands.

I would hope it was an exclusion, yes. But I have to admit, in my opinion it is a distraction to operate a GPS while driving a moving vehicle, whether it's handheld or not.

--
JMoo On