Lifetime Maps No Longer 4 Times A Year?

 

Read on another forum lifetime maps policy has changed.
I believe the wording used to be UP TO 4 TIMES A YEAR.
Now it indicates "If you purchase a nüMaps Lifetime subscription (sold separately) or if your Garmin product comes bundled with a nüMaps Lifetime or other lifetime map subscription, you will receive map data updates when and as such updates are made available on Garmin.com during the useful life of 1 compatible Garmin product or as long as Garmin receives map data from a third party supplier."

Here is the Link:
http://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/lmdisclaimer

I'm not sure if this was a Garmin decision or it was Navteq (map provider) reducing the amount of map releases per year.

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Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units
Page 1>>

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Interesting.

Navigon 'fresh maps'

Came out of the gate stating "up to 4 updates per year"... nothing really new there... perhaps its just avoiding a rigid schedule where they will release updates when they reach a certain percentage of change... speculation on my part...

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*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone6 + Navigon*

Or?

muell9k wrote:

... you will receive map data updates when and as such updates are made available..."

If one were optimistic, it could mean more often than 4 times per year.

"As many as 4 times per year" could have meant zero updates, but no more than 4 updates that year.

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Nuvi 2595LMT, Nuvi 1490T, Nuvi 260, GPSMAP 195

Wishful Thinking

rocknicehunter wrote:
muell9k wrote:

... you will receive map data updates when and as such updates are made available..."

If one were optimistic, it could mean more often than 4 times per year.

"As many as 4 times per year" could have meant zero updates, but no more than 4 updates that year.

IMHO I certainly wouldn't count on MORE than 4 updates per year. As we've experienced with delays Navteq had difficulty providing the 4 on schedule.
It's not an easy task to update the maps and POI's with the ever changing data.

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Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

Wondering

I always wondered how they could do 4 a year. That's a lot of work. We'll just have to see what goes on in the future.

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Larry - Nuvi 680, Nuvi 1690, Nuvi 2797LMT

Too busy

Garmin is starting to get too busy messing with other things other than map updates. Lifetime Updater, Express, Mapsource, BaseCamp, mapinstall, mydashboard, webupdater etc. They just keep throwing new things out there for us to beta test till they get a good product.

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ChefDon

Time Will Tell

ahsumtoy wrote:

I always wondered how they could do 4 a year. That's a lot of work. We'll just have to see what goes on in the future.

I suppose we'll have a better understanding when 2014.20 is released. If the duration is much longer I guess the possibility of less updates per year may be in store for us.

It may be Navteq will be supplying less updates per year, or Garmin has decided to offer fewer updates
to save royalty fees paid to Navteq.

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Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

I think you are absolutely

I think you are absolutely correct in your statement, keeps the pressure of Garmin to update frequently

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NickJr Nuvi 3597LMT

They should use a computer

muell9k wrote:

It's not an easy task to update the maps and POI's with the ever changing data.

Really? Isn't this done by computer now? Isn't it just a matter of running a script that compiles all of the current map data into a map? The unpaid volunteers who are doing Open Street Map are updating some maps once a week, and the full USA maps about once a month. But it is too much to expect the maps that someone paid for to be updated by Garmin or Navteq 4 times a year???

Not that updating even 4 times a year would mean that you could expect that latest road built in your area that you now travel daily to show up in the data for at least a year. But seeing data dribble into the map updates that you paid for four times a year is better than seeing updates dribble in once or twice a year.

Garmin sales down 12%

Garmin just released their second quarter financial report. Automotive PND sales were down 12% from a year ago. Competition from smartphone/tablet and buiit in GPS on new cars makes it difficult to keep strong revenue on the standalone PND market. Since map updates produce little or no revenue, I would not be surprised to see Garmin reduce the number of updates as a cost cutting measure.

http://garmin.blogs.com/files/q2-2013-press-release-final-.p...

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Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

so

Frovingslosh wrote:
muell9k wrote:

It's not an easy task to update the maps and POI's with the ever changing data.

Really? Isn't this done by computer now? Isn't it just a matter of running a script that compiles all of the current map data into a map? The unpaid volunteers who are doing Open Street Map are updating some maps once a week, and the full USA maps about once a month. But it is too much to expect the maps that someone paid for to be updated by Garmin or Navteq 4 times a year???

Are you volunteering to assist them in this effort? From your description they should be able to do these updates by just running a few scripts.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

Now

Now we're in a discussion about possibly going from 4 updates a year to something less than that. When I got my Nuvi 350 and possibly the 760, we were in long discussions about why we could only get one update a year. Oh, how times have changed. grin

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Nuvi 350, 760, 1695LM, 3790LMT, 2460LMT, 3597LMTHD, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, DriveSmart 61, Garmin Backup Camera 40 and TomTom XXL540s.

ISN'T

once a year industry standard? Do the units installed in new cars even offer updated maps once a year?

iGO is used in a lot of units. I don't think they update quarterly.

Does anyone know how many times a year google maps, mapquest...updates maps on their servers?

edit to say--I was wrong. TomTom says:

If you buy a new TomTom GPS device or smartphone app which includes FREE Lifetime Maps, for the life of your product you can download 4 or more full updates of your map every year. You will receive all updates to the road network, addresses, and Points of Interest.

Subject field is required.

Box Car wrote:

Are you volunteering to assist them in this effort? From your description they should be able to do these updates by just running a few scripts.

Sure. Have them get in touch with me. Glad to hear they want my help.

not a valid comparison

lewc wrote:

... once a year industry standard? Do the units installed in new cars even offer updated maps once a year?

Updates for GPS devices installed in new cars are somewhat different. Yes, they generally do have a yearly update. The manufacturers charge an outrageous amount for these updates (more than a new portable GPS would cost with a map). Even when you buy a Toyota with a Tomtom GPS in it and it uses a Tomtom map! (No lifetime maps for YOU!) And they offer a physical item, not a software download (it used to be a CD or DVD, some recent car GPSs update by a memory card). At the high price and the problems of inventorying physical items, they are likely not going to do more frequent updates.

.

Here's Garmin's official press release from 2009 announcing the nuMap program

http://garmin.blogs.com/pr/2009/01/garmin-offers-n.html#.UgK...

"Garmin International Inc., a unit of Garmin Ltd. (NASDAQ: GRMN), the global leader in satellite navigation, announced today that it would offer nüMaps Lifetime, a single fee program that enables customers to download the latest map and point of interest information every quarter for the life of their personal navigation device (PND)."

The third paragraph then states "Subscribers can sign up to receive email notices when each new map update is published – up to four times annually."

Email Notices

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

Here's Garmin's official press release from 2009 announcing the nuMap program

http://garmin.blogs.com/pr/2009/01/garmin-offers-n.html#.UgK...

"Garmin International Inc., a unit of Garmin Ltd. (NASDAQ: GRMN), the global leader in satellite navigation, announced today that it would offer nüMaps Lifetime, a single fee program that enables customers to download the latest map and point of interest information every quarter for the life of their personal navigation device (PND)

The third paragraph then states "Subscribers can sign up to receive email notices when each new map update is published – up to four times annually."

Anyone have the link on where to sign up for email notices?

Notice

Go to My Garmin Page and sign in https://my.garmin.com/mygarmin/login.htm?service=https%3A%2F... .Once signed in go to account then manage my account.

--
Charlie. Nuvi 265 WT and Nuvi 2597 LMT. Android Here WeGo - Offline Maps & GPS.

Garmin Financial Report

alandb wrote:

Garmin just released their second quarter financial report. Automotive PND sales were down 12% from a year ago. Competition from smartphone/tablet and buiit in GPS on new cars makes it difficult to keep strong revenue on the standalone PND market. Since map updates produce little or no revenue, I would not be surprised to see Garmin reduce the number of updates as a cost cutting measure.

http://garmin.blogs.com/files/q2-2013-press-release-final-.pdf

Good point alandb on cost cutting measures due to revenue being down. Garmin, as all public owned companies, need to show their shareholders they are taking steps to increase revenue.

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Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

Oh No!!!!!

What are we going to do with our threads where we sit watching and waiting for the revision???? And speculating on the launch date?

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GPSMAP64s, iPhone XR w/Garmin North America, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS.

not a good point as I see it

muell9k wrote:

Good point alandb on cost cutting measures due to revenue being down. Garmin, as all public owned companies, need to show their shareholders they are taking steps to increase revenue.

For map updates there is extremely little cost to provide what you have already led customers to believe they were getting for their money. There is no physical inventory. There is minimal if any delivery charge. I expect that the data itself is updated more often than map releases are made, with someone adding new roads or corrections as the information comes in. Really all that should be needed is someone running an already written script to crank out the new map from the data. As I already mentioned, unpaid volunteers for OSM can do this on a much more frequent basis, it doesn't seem unreasonable for a commercial enterprise to generate the maps on the schedule that they led customers to expect when they paid for the service. Rather than increasing revenue, reducing the number of updates seems likely to upset customers and potential customers and cause less future sales.

Maybe You Should Be Running Garmin

Frovingslosh wrote:
muell9k wrote:

Good point alandb on cost cutting measures due to revenue being down. Garmin, as all public owned companies, need to show their shareholders they are taking steps to increase revenue.

For map updates there is extremely little cost to provide what you have already led customers to believe they were getting for their money. There is no physical inventory. There is minimal if any delivery charge. I expect that the data itself is updated more often than map releases are made, with someone adding new roads or corrections as the information comes in. Really all that should be needed is someone running an already written script to crank out the new map from the data. As I already mentioned, unpaid volunteers for OSM can do this on a much more frequent basis, it doesn't seem unreasonable for a commercial enterprise to generate the maps on the schedule that they led customers to expect when they paid for the service. Rather than increasing revenue, reducing the number of updates seems likely to upset customers and potential customers and cause less future sales.

With your wealth of knowledge of running a business perhaps you can work for Garmin and show them how to reduce costs with free labor. Have you forgotten Garmin does not create the maps, Navteq does, and Garmin must pay them.

Why are you always so argumentative with my posts?

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Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

*

GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

Here's Garmin's official press release from 2009 announcing the nuMap program

http://garmin.blogs.com/pr/2009/01/garmin-offers-n.html#.UgK...

"Garmin International Inc., a unit of Garmin Ltd. (NASDAQ: GRMN), the global leader in satellite navigation, announced today that it would offer nüMaps Lifetime, a single fee program that enables customers to download the latest map and point of interest information every quarter for the life of their personal navigation device (PND)."

The third paragraph then states "Subscribers can sign up to receive email notices when each new map update is published – up to four times annually."

That's been standard for Garmin's Navigon since they introduced 'FreshMaps'...

--
*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone6 + Navigon*

argumentative with my posts

muell9k wrote:

With your wealth of knowledge of running a business perhaps you can work for Garmin and show them how to reduce costs with free labor. Have you forgotten Garmin does not create the maps, Navteq does, and Garmin must pay them.

Why are you always so argumentative with my posts?

Actually, I have run a business, although that is rather off-topic. I only mention it because you seem to be tossing it out as some sort of veiled insult. I have no desire to work for Garmin. Nor do I expect that their labor should be unpaid, any more than I think that they expected when they led their paying customers to expect quarterly map updates. I also expect that Garmin had a contractual agreement with Navteq when they sold "lifetime" subscriptions and sold LM versions of GPS receivers at higher prices than the same GPS receiver without LM at the end of the name, so they should be expecting quarter updates from Navteq. I don't know if their contract requires a payment for each update or if the updates are included with the overall contract, I would expect the latter but that is rather irrelevant to the discussion.

As to "always so argumentative" with your posts: I honestly don't know what you are talking about or what other posts you have made. There are a couple of other members of these forums who I think very little of. I'll generally just consider the source and ignore them when they post, although I will often respond to them when they quote me or address me directly. I had never really noticed you before.

Your post simply stated a point of view. I didn't try to attack you personally, I just presented an alternate, on-topic, point of view. That is, as I understand it, one of the intentions of these forums. All views presented will not necessarily match yours.

Thanks

charlesd45 wrote:

Go to My Garmin Page and sign in https://my.garmin.com/mygarmin/login.htm?service=https%3A%2F... .Once signed in go to account then manage my account.

Thanks for the link charlesd45.

Up to 4 ...

rocknicehunter wrote:
muell9k wrote:

... you will receive map data updates when and as such updates are made available..."

If one were optimistic, it could mean more often than 4 times per year.

"As many as 4 times per year" could have meant zero updates, but no more than 4 updates that year.

I doubt Garmin could get away with zero updates; the lawyers would have a heyday with the class actions. Up to 4 per year is commonly understood to mean at least 1 and up to 4. Otherwise, what did the consumer buy when they bought lifetime updates, if Garmin were to assert that up to 4 meant they never had to issue an update? As the lawyers say, the consumer would obviously not be receiving the benefit of the bargain -- paying $80+ for something in return for nothing wouldn't fly for very long.

Let's not jump to conclusions

When I read both phrases, both are written differently but mean the same:

"As many as 4 times per year"

"you will receive map data updates when and as such updates are made available "

By the way,2014.20 has been uploaded to their servers today so you'll all be getting another update within a few weeks.

Let's not ASS U ME now smile

--
Nüvi 255WT with nüMaps Lifetime North America born on 602117815 / Nüvi 3597LMTHD born on 805972514 / I love Friday’s except when I’m on holidays ~ canuk

>

kch50428 wrote:
GadgetGuy2008 wrote:

The third paragraph then states "Subscribers can sign up to receive email notices when each new map update is published – up to four times annually."

That's been standard for Garmin's Navigon since they introduced 'FreshMaps'...

Yep.. OLD news...moving on

--
DriveSmart 65 - DriveSmart 61 - We do not live in Igloo's and do not all ride to work on snow mobiles.

2014.10

muell9k wrote:
ahsumtoy wrote:

I always wondered how they could do 4 a year. That's a lot of work. We'll just have to see what goes on in the future.

I suppose we'll have a better understanding when 2014.20 is released. If the duration is much longer I guess the possibility of less updates per year may be in store for us.

The fact that it took almost a month beyond the expected release date of 2014.10 to get it may be their way of extending the release schedule.

--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

Either Way

Garmin calls the shots. My 2011.40 will get me there and back. The custom poi folder contains all the places I want to go.

--
1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

It could go either way, or neither way

muell9k wrote:

IMHO I certainly wouldn't count on MORE than 4 updates per year. As we've experienced with delays Navteq had difficulty providing the 4 on schedule.

I don't. Just remarking that eliminating the 4x a year term allows for the possibility.

trclac wrote:

I doubt Garmin could get away with zero updates; the lawyers would have a heyday with the class actions...

I believe they could. To quote their terms "... you will receive map data updates when and as such updates are made available on Garmin.com during the useful life of 1 compatible Garmin product or as long as Garmin receives map data from a third party supplier."

The contract with Navteq ends for whatever reason and they are no longer receiving updates from "a third party supplier", they are no longer obligated to supply you with map updates...

That would probably be a very bad business decision, but they have that option. Again, not suggesting it will happen, but they do have a legal out to stop updating the maps.

--
Nuvi 2595LMT, Nuvi 1490T, Nuvi 260, GPSMAP 195

A question arises

A question for you Legal Eagles out there:

I expect a majority of us here with a purchased numaps Lifetime or a purchased LM/LMT Garmin device have purchased our devices before this new Garmin policy went into effect.

Assuming I'm correct, isn't Garmin obligated to honor the policy in place when we purchased our numaps Lifetime or bought our LM/LMT device? If true, the old "up to four updates a year" would need to be continued for us, wouldn't it? In this case--and assuming that if Garmin offered updates under the old policy to all, even those buying under the new policy--this new policy really wouldn't be in effect until we retired all the old units we have and all map updates were being done for units sold under this new policy.

Any thoughts?

Different wording but exact same meaning

The glass is half full or half empty, two ways of saying the same thing.

"Up to four updates a year" means either 0,1,2,3 or 4.

They changed the wording to "you will receive map data updates when and as such updates are made available." Exactly the same end result but worded differently.

There's a lot of competition out there, certainly one of Garmin's objectives is to gain more & more clientele along with $ profit $ and not the opposite.

People have different perceptions and as far as I'm concerned all that's changed is the wording.

Think about it, it wouldn't be very wise in giving just one update a year and risk steering your customers elsewhere and lose big time market share.

Cheers smile

--
Nüvi 255WT with nüMaps Lifetime North America born on 602117815 / Nüvi 3597LMTHD born on 805972514 / I love Friday’s except when I’m on holidays ~ canuk

not the only choices

canuk wrote:

The glass is half full or half empty, two ways of saying the same thing.

That's one way to look at it. Another is that a lot of upset customers, who paid, might say "Hey, I've been using the wrong glass".

"Policy"

CraigW wrote:

A question for you Legal Eagles out there:
...
Assuming I'm correct, isn't Garmin obligated to honor the policy in place when we purchased our numaps Lifetime or bought our LM/LMT device?
...

Any thoughts?

@craig
I encourage you to look for the "policy" language of whatever product you purchased.

I kept mine (what I do is "scan" things into PDFs so that I can find them later on my computer). It says

Quote:

Program entitles you to receive up to four map updates per year during the useful life of one compatible product or as long as Garmin receives map data from its current third party supplier, whichever is shorter"

The key phrase is "its current third party supplier".

Agreed

canuk wrote:

The glass is half full or half empty, two ways of saying the same thing.

"Up to four updates a year" means either 0,1,2,3 or 4.

They changed the wording to "you will receive map data updates when and as such updates are made available." Exactly the same end result but worded differently.

There's a lot of competition out there, certainly one of Garmin's objectives is to gain more & more clientele along with $ profit $ and not the opposite.

People have different perceptions and as far as I'm concerned all that's changed is the wording.

Think about it, it wouldn't be very wise in giving just one update a year and risk steering your customers elsewhere and lose big time market share.

Cheers smile

This post makes the most sense to me. In addition, I think Garmin may have received far too many complaints from people demanding the next map update, since 4 a year is roughly one update every 3 months. When the 3 month mark arrives, I'm guessing people were calling demanding to know when the next one would be out and why isn't it ready since I am expecting 4 maps a year.

With the new wording, it basically says "when it's ready, it will be released" to remove the 3 month expectation.

Just a guess, but completely agree that the old wording and new wording are basically the same thing.

--
Streetpilot C340 Nuvi 2595 LMT

That

shrifty wrote:

With the new wording, it basically says "when it's ready, it will be released" to remove the 3 month expectation.

That, I completely agree with. Just look here and you'll find, what was it, a 15 page thread about when 2014.10 would be released. People were freaking out because it was 2 weeks later than the date somebody estimated based on when the maps were first loaded on the Garmin servers.

By the way 2014.20 was loaded a couple of days ago. Let the games begin. grin

--
Nuvi 350, 760, 1695LM, 3790LMT, 2460LMT, 3597LMTHD, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, DriveSmart 61, Garmin Backup Camera 40 and TomTom XXL540s.

Map Updates

rocknicehunter wrote:
muell9k wrote:

IMHO I certainly wouldn't count on MORE than 4 updates per year. As we've experienced with delays Navteq had difficulty providing the 4 on schedule.

I don't. Just remarking that eliminating the 4x a year term allows for the possibility.

trclac wrote:

I doubt Garmin could get away with zero updates; the lawyers would have a heyday with the class actions...

I believe they could. To quote their terms "... you will receive map data updates when and as such updates are made available on Garmin.com during the useful life of 1 compatible Garmin product or as long as Garmin receives map data from a third party supplier."

The contract with Navteq ends for whatever reason and they are no longer receiving updates from "a third party supplier", they are no longer obligated to supply you with map updates...

That would probably be a very bad business decision, but they have that option. Again, not suggesting it will happen, but they do have a legal out to stop updating the maps.

I spoke to a lawyer about this. He, of course, disagrees, suggesting that providing zero updates obviously deprives the customer of the benefit of the bargain they struck when purchasing lifetime map updates. Going to zero updates could expose Garmin to all sorts of theories, including fraud, misrep, unfair practices, yada, yada, yada. Regardless, I guarantee they would be sued, in which case we would just wait to see what the outcome is.

2014.10 vs 2014.20

I'm in the middle of downloading 2014.10 right at this very moment on a brand new GPS from Garmin (arrived today). So if the .20 maps were uploaded 'a couple of days ago', why am I receiving the .10 version?

Because

c141heaven wrote:

I'm in the middle of downloading 2014.10 right at this very moment on a brand new GPS from Garmin (arrived today). So if the .20 maps were uploaded 'a couple of days ago', why am I receiving the .10 version?

Because having them on their server and having them available for download are 2 very different things.

--
Nuvi 350, 760, 1695LM, 3790LMT, 2460LMT, 3597LMTHD, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, DriveSmart 61, Garmin Backup Camera 40 and TomTom XXL540s.

one free map to a new unit

t923347 wrote:
c141heaven wrote:

I'm in the middle of downloading 2014.10 right at this very moment on a brand new GPS from Garmin (arrived today). So if the .20 maps were uploaded 'a couple of days ago', why am I receiving the .10 version?

Because having them on their server and having them available for download are 2 very different things.

And also, just perhaps, if you didn't get a LM version or buy lifetime maps, you only get one "free" map update with your new Garmin. You might get someone sympathetic in tech support who will help you when you talk to them next week (and you might not).

one free map to a new unit

t923347 wrote:
c141heaven wrote:

I'm in the middle of downloading 2014.10 right at this very moment on a brand new GPS from Garmin (arrived today). So if the .20 maps were uploaded 'a couple of days ago', why am I receiving the .10 version?

Because having them on their server and having them available for download are 2 very different things.

And also, just perhaps, if you didn't get a LM version or buy lifetime maps, you only get one "free" map update with your new Garmin. You might get someone sympathetic in tech support who will help you when you talk to them next week (and you might not).

one free map to a new unit

t923347 wrote:
c141heaven wrote:

I'm in the middle of downloading 2014.10 right at this very moment on a brand new GPS from Garmin (arrived today). So if the .20 maps were uploaded 'a couple of days ago', why am I receiving the .10 version?

Because having them on their server and having them available for download are 2 very different things.

And also, just perhaps, if you didn't get a LM version or buy lifetime maps, you only get one "free" map update with your new Garmin. You might get someone sympathetic in tech support who will help you when you talk to them next week (and you might not).

SOL I guess

The model I got is a 2577LT [us and europe] No LTM option is even available on this one, only LT. I don't really care rip about the traffic feature. In any case, when I hooked it up ... every bit of software on it needed updating, fresh out of the box, which is pretty irritating, and the maps they downloaded are the 2014.10 versions. And zero documentation was in the box. None.

I've not found Garmin to be as nice these days as in years past, but I will beg and plead for the latest version of the maps if they show up in the next few days. My plan was get the most current maps with this first update (what they promised ... but didn't deliver), then get lifetime maps in a year or so in time for my next trip over to Europe.

well...

They can update 4 times a year or less.. Look at the bright side; I won't be spending too much time checking for updates..

For some reason, it feels like an addiction that I MUST have the updated map..

2014.20 update prediction: Aug 22

Not To Worry

c141heaven wrote:

The model I got is a 2577LT [us and europe] No LTM option is even available on this one, only LT. I don't really care rip about the traffic feature. In any case, when I hooked it up ... every bit of software on it needed updating, fresh out of the box, which is pretty irritating, and the maps they downloaded are the 2014.10 versions. And zero documentation was in the box. None.

I've not found Garmin to be as nice these days as in years past, but I will beg and plead for the latest version of the maps if they show up in the next few days. My plan was get the most current maps with this first update (what they promised ... but didn't deliver), then get lifetime maps in a year or so in time for my next trip over to Europe.

To the best of my knowledge No 7 series Nuvi ever offered Lifetime Maps with them, beginning with the 370 to your 2577. The 7 series is the 2nd number in the 3 digit models and the 3rd number in the 4 digit models. Garmin hasn't included any user manuals for a very long time, they must be downloaded.

As far as your concerns about not having the latest maps you can put your mind to ease, no need to call Garmin.

According to Garmin's current policy, you have 90 days after you obtain a satellite connection to download the most recent map release. That could mean more than one map update if maps are released within that 90 day period. Since you just received your 2775 you will definitely get free of charge the 2014.20 map when released.

Here is their policy:
Guarantee applies to one covered Garmin product. Not transferable to any other person or product. You will qualify for the free map update(s) only if you connect your device to your computer and then visit www.garmin.com/mapupdates either (i) prior to first using your device, or (ii) within 90 days of first acquiring satellites while driving with your device (the "First Satellite Fix"). If you qualify under one of these two conditions, then you will be entitled to receive one or more free map update(s) during the 90-day period following the date you connected your device to your computer and visited www.garmin.com/mapupdates or the First Satellite Fix date, whichever is earlier, if and when map updates are available for purchase on Garmin’s website during such period

https://my.garmin.com/maps/nuMaps.htm

I feel that Garmin should at least include literature explaining this since a user manual is not included.

--
Nuvi 2460LMT 2 Units

i wonder

Frovingslosh wrote:
muell9k wrote:

Good point alandb on cost cutting measures due to revenue being down. Garmin, as all public owned companies, need to show their shareholders they are taking steps to increase revenue.

For map updates there is extremely little cost to provide what you have already led customers to believe they were getting for their money. There is no physical inventory.

Do you have ANY idea of the effort involved in updating the maps? From your viewpoint, it's a very simple affair but then I also gather you have no real understanding of what data is received from Nokia and how much effort is required to tailor it to where you can fit literally terabytes of data into just a few gigabytes. I know the USGS did a lidar terrain study of one of the smaller states and that data, just the results of the lidar scans without naming anything is over 13 terabytes.

--
ɐ‾nsǝɹ Just one click away from the end of the Internet

how many people does it take to push the button?

a_user wrote:

Do you have ANY idea of the effort involved in updating the maps? From your viewpoint, it's a very simple affair but then I also gather you have no real understanding of what data is received from Nokia and how much effort is required to tailor it to where you can fit literally terabytes of data into just a few gigabytes. I know the USGS did a lidar terrain study of one of the smaller states and that data, just the results of the lidar scans without naming anything is over 13 terabytes.

You seem to be under the impression that these maps are tediously handmade, bit by bit. It really seems more likely that someone (or someones) produced programs that would compile the raw data into maps. Those programs may have taken quite a bit of work and skill, but they exist, and rerunning them against fresh data should not be the daunting task that you imply. As I have stated before, the volunteers for Open Street Maps produce Garmin Compatible maps at a much more frequent basis than every three months, and this is being done in their unpaid spare time. True, their files are larger and contain some extra data that Garmin has chosen to leave out (local political borders and small creeks, among others), but compiling smaller maps doesn't take more time than compiling larger maps, it may even take less. It just takes better written map compilers and perhaps a better knowledge of Garmin internals.

I haven't worked with the raw Garmin map data. But I have worked in data processing and computer automation all of my professional career. I've seen people spend weeks every month pouring over data, building reports. I've sat down with them, got them to give me the details of what they needed, and within a day or two had the system automatically cranking out nightly reports of the information that they needed each day waiting in their in-box when they arrived rather than taking all of their morning to manually do it. If anyone at Garmin is manually building these maps each time, I'm comfortable in saying, from my professional background, that they or their bosses should be fired.

There may be other more labor intensive things that are involved. For example, Garmin might want to test the new maps against several reference GPS units to be sure that there are few or no nasty surprises. So I can certainly see why they might not want to release maps even more often (such as the weekly and monthly releases of Open Street Maps). But we have already seen that a lot of things sneak past any imagined testing that Garmin might or might not do, and paying customers are just told to wait for the next quarterly release. I guess now they will be told to wait until the next release whenever Garmin gets around to it. But that testing was certainly factored in when Garmin started selling "lifetime" maps and set the expectation of quarterly updates.

If "up to four" becomes "up to four, but mostly zero or one", then a lot of people who paid for lifetime maps or limited their choices and bought more expensive receivers because they had LM at the end of the name, may become upset. And with the apparent erosion in the GPS market, I think Garmin would be very short sighted to save a little by running their map compilers less often and updating the employes test units less often, but potentially disenfranchise people who were already loyal Garmin customers.

This may not even directly affect me. I don't have a LM receiver. I had expected that I would buy another Garmin GPS receiver at some point soon and that it would certainly have the LM at the end of its name if I did, but if Garmin is already so distressed that they have to cut back on the expectation that they set with their paying customers, then maybe the "lifetime map" has even less potential to last than I expected. And Garmin has already made clear that "lifetime" doesn't mean your lifetime, or even as long at the GPS receiver it is associated with still works, it means until Garmin decides that you have had that receiver long enough and they just want to stop supporting it and you should buy a newer one, even if you like what you have. So my next GPS receiver may well be an Android tablet. Nice big screen. Not locked into one piece of software, ability to run improved GPS applications when they come out. Could even use it at the same time as a car DVR for recording the road in front of me or could monitor engine performance in real time by an inexpensive Bluetooth OBDII attachment, or could do all of this and more at the same time. No wonder Garmin is feeling the pressure. I just think that taking back from the expectations that you already set with loyal paying customers is a short sighted way to address financial pressure.

--wow--

Frovingslosh wrote:
a_user wrote:

Do you have ANY idea of the effort involved in updating the maps? From your viewpoint, it's a very simple affair but then I also gather you have no real understanding of what data is received from Nokia and how much effort is required to tailor it to where you can fit literally terabytes of data into just a few gigabytes. I know the USGS did a lidar terrain study of one of the smaller states and that data, just the results of the lidar scans without naming anything is over 13 terabytes.

You seem to be under the impression that these maps are tediously handmade, bit by bit. It really seems more likely that someone (or someones) produced programs that would compile the raw data into maps. Those programs may have taken quite a bit of work and skill, but they exist, and rerunning them against fresh data should not be the daunting task that you imply. As I have stated before, the volunteers for Open Street Maps produce Garmin Compatible maps at a much more frequent basis than every three months, and this is being done in their unpaid spare time. True, their files are larger and contain some extra data that Garmin has chosen to leave out (local political borders and small creeks, among others), but compiling smaller maps doesn't take more time than compiling larger maps, it may even take less. It just takes better written map compilers and perhaps a better knowledge of Garmin internals.

I haven't worked with the raw Garmin map data. But I have worked in data processing and computer automation all of my professional career. I've seen people spend weeks every month pouring over data, building reports. I've sat down with them, got them to give me the details of what they needed, and within a day or two had the system automatically cranking out nightly reports of the information that they needed each day waiting in their in-box when they arrived rather than taking all of their morning to manually do it. If anyone at Garmin is manually building these maps each time, I'm comfortable in saying, from my professional background, that they or their bosses should be fired.

There may be other more labor intensive things that are involved. For example, Garmin might want to test the new maps against several reference GPS units to be sure that there are few or no nasty surprises. So I can certainly see why they might not want to release maps even more often (such as the weekly and monthly releases of Open Street Maps). But we have already seen that a lot of things sneak past any imagined testing that Garmin might or might not do, and paying customers are just told to wait for the next quarterly release. I guess now they will be told to wait until the next release whenever Garmin gets around to it. But that testing was certainly factored in when Garmin started selling "lifetime" maps and set the expectation of quarterly updates.

If "up to four" becomes "up to four, but mostly zero or one", then a lot of people who paid for lifetime maps or limited their choices and bought more expensive receivers because they had LM at the end of the name, may become upset. And with the apparent erosion in the GPS market, I think Garmin would be very short sighted to save a little by running their map compilers less often and updating the employes test units less often, but potentially disenfranchise people who were already loyal Garmin customers.

This may not even directly affect me. I don't have a LM receiver. I had expected that I would buy another Garmin GPS receiver at some point soon and that it would certainly have the LM at the end of its name if I did, but if Garmin is already so distressed that they have to cut back on the expectation that they set with their paying customers, then maybe the "lifetime map" has even less potential to last than I expected. And Garmin has already made clear that "lifetime" doesn't mean your lifetime, or even as long at the GPS receiver it is associated with still works, it means until Garmin decides that you have had that receiver long enough and they just want to stop supporting it and you should buy a newer one, even if you like what you have. So my next GPS receiver may well be an Android tablet. Nice big screen. Not locked into one piece of software, ability to run improved GPS applications when they come out. Could even use it at the same time as a car DVR for recording the road in front of me or could monitor engine performance in real time by an inexpensive Bluetooth OBDII attachment, or could do all of this and more at the same time. No wonder Garmin is feeling the pressure. I just think that taking back from the expectations that you already set with loyal paying customers is a short sighted way to address financial pressure.

--Wow! This is HUGELY informative, thank you for offering us this detailed look into reality!!!

--
~Jim~ Nuvi-660, & Nuvi-680

Ok ...

But they should improve the maps anyway. There are roads missing from the maps on Garmin GPSrs which are on apps and maps other than Nokia maps.

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