States starting to crack down on some revenue streams

There are a lot of municipalities like that in the Chicago area. They aren't funded solely on ticket revenue, but they depend heavily on it. That's much less contentious than raising property taxes, and it spares them having to do things like manage money wisely. A number of years ago the state proposed keeping the money from traffic tickets, and you should have heard the howls of protest!
There are some cities here that are aggressive about infractions, and I have to decline to patronize their local business base. I wonder if their chambers of commerce stop to examine the correlation between lost business and ticket cops?

Starke Florida is so bad on the traffic laws (speed limits going from 65 mph to 55 mph to 45 mph to 35 mph in a very short distance)that the AAA has erected billboards on both ends of the town warning drivers of the speed trap ahead. AAA at one time (still might) would route drivers around the two towns rather than have drivers get caught in the traps.
The other town on SR 301 in Florida is Waldo where you can gat a ticket for going a mile or two ove the posted limit.
In Starke during school hours, the speed limit is 15 MPH.
It is a long town and a major truck route from US-10 to US-75.

California cities like Gardena and Los Angeles, have canceled their red-light enforcement programs because they either lost money or were not enforced in the court system. Many others are following suit. But that puts more pressure on the street cops to `make up the difference' as city after city faces record deficits due to excessive pay and benefits promised over the past 10 years. The CHP is cracking down too, No more warnings.

New Rome, OH had quite a business going until the crackdown

http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/January-February-2005/sce...

I drove through Starke once. VERY CAREFULLY, well aware of the reputation, and without incident.

Got my one speeding ticket ever in another notorious Missouri speed trap town I did not know about it until later, north of St. Louis, Foley, MO, where I was ticketed faster than I was going. This was in 2005. The sheriff's brother was the judge, though I just paid the fine because contesting it would have been a waste of time and would have cost more. They were definitely getting most of their municipal revenue from tickets, so I'm sure Foley was a target of the Missouri state law, and I'm sure Foley has tried to find a loophole to get around it. I wonder how the state law can work to limit how much revenue a municipality collects from tickets anyway. It's gotta be the only way a politician understands: they just take the money. It's not like the motorists will get anything back.

This RLC issue is out of control from government point of view. It's too visible, and people are protesting so it makes bad publicity. Cameras may be phased out or at least most of them. But if you think that they will give up revenue you are very mistaken.

There is modification and "upgrade" for this sort of revenue streams that were introduced with RLCs:

A lobbyist for the Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) industry has convinced Connecticut legislators to consider implanting spy chips on the state's license plates. Last Wednesday, the state Senate Transportation Committee voted unanimously to pass a bill asking the Department of Motor Vehicles to create a report on the implementation of RFID for motor vehicle registration by January 1

Nice, clean, without anything visible or flashing on crossings. And main reason:

"There are two main reasons for the Department of Transportation to adopt this type of program," Scully-Power wrote in his testimony. "One, to validate that every vehicle conforms to state regulations. Two, to provide considerable income to the state by identifying vehicles that are violating the existing laws of Connecticut.... The state would collect $29,619,500 per year or $79,858,500 in the same three-year period compared to the $594,000 it was able to collect."

The financial estimates were based on the number of uninsured drivers the system could hit with $100 tickets. The system also would increase the profitability of red light cameras, which the legislature is currently considering authorizing.

"An RFID program would be phased in gradually and then expanded to accomplish other policing tasks without having to change equipment," Scully-Power wrote. "The second phase would be to implement speeding violations."
source: http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/37/3743.asp

So if you say it's crack down on revenue stream I will say: think again

Not exactly a speed trap because they are just enforcing the speed limit, and I can't say for sure it's true, because luckily we never had any problems in the twenty years that we traveled through that area. I have heard stories that the Collinsville, IL police pull all kinds of tricks to give out tickets on I-55. Things like hiding up in overpasses with a radar unit, disguising themselves as construction workers or hitchhikers with a radar unit in a suitcase, or even farmers sitting on a tractor from a spot where they can shoot the interstate.

I drove from Tampa to Jacksonville last week, and being well aware of the situation in Starke and Waldo, I stayed on I-75 to I-10 rather than take the shorter route through those two towns. I have not seen numbers recently, but a few years ago it was reported they received almost 50% of their city budget from tickets.

If that doesn't smack of Big Brother, I don't know what does!

Totally believable for today's politicians, cash strapped towns, & I know what's best for you!

Bah humbug!

Fred

The whole ticketing at 1-2 mph over the speed limit thing, particularly while traveling at highway speeds, is pretty petty. Most speedometers are not even calibrated for that kind of accuracy.

Speedometers, by law may not be pessimistic. That is why most speedos read high. Honda had to recall a number of motorcycles because of a software glitch that had ths speedo read low - IIRC they reimbursed their clients for any speeding tickets, but what of the insurance cost impact?

Claiming the speedo was wrong is not a valid excuse for speeding.

It's not difficult to verify your speedo's accuracy if you have a GPS. I use a device on my car that interfaces with the cars computer called a Scangauge, and I used 2 different GPS to verify it was calibrated correctly for speed. I don't even use my cars speedo, I use the SG to check my speed.

Please quote the U.S or state law you are referring to that controls speedometer accuracy. There may be some regulation about the accuracy when the speedo is manufactured, but I don't think you will find a U.S. law concerning the accuracy when they leave the factory.

BTW, a search at Google found no mention of Honda going to court about motorcycle speedometers. Plenty of complaints were found. Although there may be a lawsuit about Civic "Odometers".

If you can find either in print, please let us know.

I live in a northwestern suburb of Chicago. Right around the corner from us on one of the busy streets through the village is a constant speed trap. People who live in the village are very aware of this so most ticketed are not from this area. The other day I was driving down this two lane each way street and saw two police officers standing in the middle of the right lane. One had a pair of binoculars, the other had a radar gun. I can only assume they were looking for speeders and non compliance with the seat belt law. I mean standing right in the middle of the street. I just started laughing. I think there would be better use of the police, but then our property taxes have escalated beyond anything reasonable for many years now.

Can you share the suburb so people passing thru like me can be aware? I saw a driver get busted last year out in Hanover Park, similar situation. I had just gotten to Gary off the EOH when this guy comes ripping by me in a Ferrari, doing at least 100 as he flew through the intersection at Central Road. Up ahead, south of the Fuji Bldg on the west side of the street I see a lone guy, who I figured was doing the grass or something for the business. Get up there, and instead of being a gardener whaddya know, it's a cop with a radar gun. I told the guy he was about to get a ticket, and sure enough a cop rolls up from one of the parking lots on the north side of the street.

20 years ago I was driving back from PA on a Sunday evening just before dusk. I was on I-83 south approaching Baltimore in heavy traffic (3 lanes on both sides).

I heard on the CB about a radar trap ahead, so I slowed down to 55, which was the max back then. As I come around a bend, I see a State Trooper standing behind a bush with a hand held radar unit and a walki-talkie in the median. 50 yards later, there's another State Trooper flagging drivers over. There's a long line of vehicles on the left shoulder getting tickets.

Here's the Zinger! The trooper flagging vehicles down was standing between the center lane and the left travel lane. Wouldn't you love to have that job?

I swear that was a true story seen by my own eyes.

Why should I need to prove anything to you? Learn to use a search engine and look it up yourself. But, since you seem incapable of doing it, I'll do it for you this one time.
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States have no say in such matters. Period.
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I never wrote that there was a lawsuit. I said there was a recall. Accuracy counts, both for speedometers and for posts. I'm guessing you aren't an engineer.

However GM in particular was (and others have been) sued for erratic speedometers - and GM DID have to replace defective speedometers and reimburse their customers for speeding tickets and, as it happens increased insurance rates (look it up yourself).

If speedometer accuracy was not a requirement, then I would imagine that you could never sue for having one that wasn't. However this is a response to your challenge of my post, so here you are:
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From the NHTSA database:

Make: HONDA

Model: CBR1000RR

Model Year: 2004

Manufacturer: HONDA (AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.)

Mfr's Report Date: MAY 26, 2004

NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 04V254000

NHTSA Action Number: N/A

Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL

Potential Number of Units Affected: 8,189

Summary:
ON CERTAIN MOTORCYCLES, SOME DIGITAL SPEEDOMETERS MAY EXPERIENCE A COMPUTER PROGRAM ERROR, CAUSING THE SPEEDOMETER TO INDICATE APPROXIMATELY 25 PERCENT LESS THAN THE ACTUAL VEHICLE SPEED.

Consequence:
THIS CONDITION CAN RESULT IN THE VEHICLE BEING DRIVEN AT AN ILLEGAL OR UNSAFE SPEED, WHICH COULD INCREASE THE RISK OF A CRASH.

Remedy:
DEALERS WILL INSTALL AN UPDATED SPEEDOMETER AND ASSOCIATED COMPONENTS. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN ON MAY 11, 2004. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT HONDA AT 1-800-999-1009.

Notes:
HONDA RECALL NO. P32. CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).
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Speedometer accuracy for passenger vehicles:

United Nations Regulation 39, part 5.3. The speed indicated shall not be less than the true speed of the vehicle. At the test speeds specified in paragraph 5.2.5. above, there shall be the following relationship between the speed displayed (V1 ) and the true speed (V2).
0  (V1 - V2)  0.1 V2 + 4 km/h

Manufacturers have the choice. They can use the UNECE reg or the SAE one.

The SAE rules state +/- 2% OR -1/+4%, But no one seems to use the SAE rule, likely because the UNECE one is more lenient - I can`t quote the SAE spec verbatim, unless you`d like to Paypal across $66 to pay for a copy of the actual spec.

301 is so bad for tickets,that another small town leased a section of the road just so they could give tickets. I know it sounds bad, but it did happen a few ytears ago.

You stated:

"Speedometers, by law may not be pessimistic."

First, a UN regulation is not "Law" in the united States. They might "adopt" it in the EU, but it doesn't mean much in a court of law here.

Second, I am very familiar with SAE, having previously been in the Automotive business for over 30 years and SAE standards are not "Law" but mearly "Standards".

Third, did not see a thing in the NHTSA quote that demanded the fines be paid.

Lastly, please don't talk down to someone that you have no idea about their knowledge or experience.

My last post was in a hurry, so now let's review your statements a little slower and more closely.

You stated:

"States have no say in such matters. Period."

I say:
Wrong. Some states do vehicle inspections. In VA, a speedo is not required. In VA, you can get a speeding ticket and some courts will reduce the charge to "Improper Equipment" - if you can prove that the speedo was inaccurate. Proof had to be supplied by the same folks that check the calibration of police car speedos. Most courts ignore that nowadays, because it's too easy to cheat and you should know that something is wrong if you are passing other cars all the time.

On the other hand, when you sell your vehicle, you must sign a statement that your odometer reading is accurate and has not been modified.

You stated:

"I never wrote that there was a lawsuit. I said there was a recall. Accuracy counts, both for speedometers and for posts. I'm guessing you aren't an engineer.

However GM in particular was (and others have been) sued for erratic speedometers - and GM DID have to replace defective speedometers and reimburse their customers for speeding tickets and, as it happens increased insurance rates (look it up yourself).

If speedometer accuracy was not a requirement, then I would imagine that you could never sue for having one that wasn't. However this is a response to your challenge of my post, so here you are:"

I say:

Well, I did look it up and you are wrong again. See the Wikipedia article at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Instrument_Cluster_Settlemen...

Not a word anywhere about GM re-imbursing for tickets or insurance. All online references about lawsuits or NHTSA references are about 2008 incidents and for GM to pay for repair costs incurred.

Where's the Honda "Motorcycle" recall notice? You replied with quoting a recall for a Honda automobile. No listings found for a Honda MC recall.

In regards to the UN and SAE quotes:

I state again that UN regulations are not U.S. law and SAE standards are just standards - not law.

The reason Virginia doesn't require speedometers is that the FMS and DOT do federally. State statutes cannot diminish the federal requirements

And, no, you REALLY need to learn to read. The recall data I posted was for a Honda CBR 1000RR motorcycle - even if it HAD been for a car (which it was not), it proves the point; Honda was ordered to recall vehicles because their speedometers were inaccurate.

Manufacturers MUST build their vehicles and meet either the SAE or UNECE specification, their choice - it MUST meet one or the other certification. But you wouldn't know this, since all you are doing is following links at Wikipedia and have no access to the underlying court, engineering and Government FMS standards documents this way.

Signing off - feel free to try and fight your tickets on the basis that your speedometer reads low - you WILL lose.

OK, I missed that while looking right at it, Honda MC that is. And I did go directly to the NHTSA site page, not Wikipedia.

I still want to know the U.S. law or regulation that compels auto manufactures fo follow SAE. I can see meeting the UNECE regs when shipping to the EU, but we are talking here in the U.S.

You did not defend the GM speedo issue, where you stated that GM had to pay the speeding fines and the insurance hikes. So I'm assuming you have no access to any facts.

As to the remark about my reading ability and references to not being an engineer:

Yes, I am not an engineer. I am a designer.

I had a lot of jobs early on, but here's short bio:

I started working on engines when I was 14.

Rebuilt my first carburetor when I was 16 (4bbl Carter carb on a 57 Chevy 283) and it worked perfectly with nobody elses help.

Took 3 years of electronics in High School

I worked as a mechanic and I became a service writer at a local Chevy/Buick/Fiat/Honda(MC) dealer. I also worked in the parts department there. When the owner decided to drop Chevy because they wanted him to build a new building I became the Parts manager for Fiat and Honda MCs. Worked there from 1969 to 1974

1.5 yrs electronics at community college. Quit when money ran out.

Was a Parts and Service manager at a Honda/Kawasaki/Triumph MC dealer in Hampton, VA

Ran a Sunoco gas station for 5 yrs. Had a falling out with the owner and it closed 3 months after I left. We remained best friends until he died 4 years ago.

Worked at Busch Gardens, Williamsburg for 5 years as a mechanic. Worked on everything from tillers to Double Decker London buses to the Loch Ness Monster roller coaster. Got stabbed in the back by a fellow employee that did nothing but lie and I left.

I then fixed TVs and Stereos for 5 years.

Got a job at Bendix Electronics which then became Allied-Signal and some more name changes and then it became Siemens Automotive. I worked with the guys that had their names on the original "Electronic" fuel injection used on the 57 Corvette (analog and it used tubes). The same group had their names on the first "Digital" fuel injection patent, which for some strange reason they sold it to Bosch. During my 17 years there I worked on prototype Electronic Control Units (ECUs) for Fuel Injection and Electronic Valve Timing. I did design work and laid out Printed Circuit boards (both on CAD systems). I worked in the Dyno Lab both building engines and testing them. I did a lot of jobs there and a lot of research. Got laid of 12 yrs. ago when the auto industry had it's first major crash. It's now Continental Automotive. (Yes, still a German company)

For the last 10 years, I have been helping design ships and I can't talk about what I do there, sorry.

All my mechanical expertise has been self-taught, except for GD&T courses, some classes on CAD software, ASME seminars, etc. So don't imply that I can not read, because I have been learning by reading for a long, long time.

I gave you a short bio to see if you would in turn tell me how you got access to all the government and legal documents up there in Montreal. Do you work for an automotive supplier or maybe Bombardier. There used to be a GM plant north of Montreal, if I remember correctly, could that be where.

BTW, Mont Tremblant is a beautiful park that we have been to a few times camping. Learned on the first trip, that you do not deep dive into the water - no matter how warm the surface is in August. LOL

P.S. I have never fought a speeding ticket. The few I have gotten, I have just pre-paid the fine and let it go. They got me and I was guilty.

You won't find a law or regulation that states you have to follow all the recommendations/standards of any Standards development Organization (SDO) like SAE. What you will find are requirements in rules that reference a SPECIFIC standard. The key issue with this is standards have to be refreshed and are revised or declared obsolete. The law or regulation doesn't take this evolution into account until the law or regulation is then revised. I've got regulations referencing 15 year old documents which everyone knows are no longer truly valid due to enhancements in the products as they change.

That's the way I've always understood it to work. SAE sets a standard and the Feds use it in a regulation.

I meant to search the SAE and ASME standards today for any references to speedo specs at lunch (we have a subscription service), but we were having problems with the CAD system and I had to help ride herd on that.

It's off 5 - 10% depending on speed. 65 on my GPS is 71 - 72 on the speedo.

I seem to recall Honda got into trouble because their speedos were way off and their mileage on the odo was way off too.

If you go to Google, you will find plenty of articles about Honda lawsuits and recalls. Just type in:

Honda speedometer lawsuit

Substitute GM for Honda and that will turn up a bunch of articles as well.

If the speedo or odometer is off a little bit, like +/- 1 MPH @ 60 MPH, I'm happy. I have very tall stock tires on my pickup truck and I know the outside diameter will decrease as they wear down. This will make the speedo read higher than actual. I can live with it, since I have the GPS to let me know what the real speed is.

What I would not like is an error that reads 5 MPH or more higher @ 60 MPH, as this would make the warranty run out way before it's time.

Well, I did the search today for "speedometer" at the IHS website. Not one single hit for "speedometer" in the SAE specs. Plenty of hits for other countries though. Japan, United Kingdom, EU and about 4 other countries were listed.

If we shipped a U.S. made vehicle there, it would have to comply to their standard.

Have you visited SpeedTrap.org?

http://www.speedtrap.org/

It can be very useful before taking a trip through unknown territory.

The most recent story I heard about Honda was for odometers accumulating too many miles shortening people’s warranty.

http://www.southfloridacaraccidentlawyerblog.com/2007/01/hon...

Been noticing the cops using more ka band radar on the southern california freeways lately. Coincidence?

Things seem to be getting a little heated here, it's not the end of the world.