Dear Garmin (I know you read this forum) >>>

They really don't care - and this has been coming for years now.

The last *solid* navigators were the Nuvi 7X0 series. And I get that from Garmin people!!

I used to own several Garmins, but over the years I noticed a steady increase in bugs as well as the fact that Garmin would remove useful features for no apparent reason.

I strongly believe that Garmin's business model of pushing out several "new" models every year has hurt its reputation. Garmin engineers cannot focus on fixing the existing problems because they are forced to push out "new" models. Heck, if you look at Garmin's website you'll see they offer 22 different Nuvi models (43 if you count the variations of T, L, and LMT models!!!)

Garmin needs to pare its product line down to 4 or 5 models and focus on making those models rock solid. Garmin also needs to include additional features in the Nuvi line such as those found in 5 year old StreetPilots!!

I personally believe that PNDs are a dying technology sector. But if Garmin wants to maintain its slice of the shrinking PND pie it has to revamp its entire business model.

TMK,

Did you email that to Garmin?

nicely done. while I have 2 units that perform well ( a 255w and a 755t) I too have read about the bugs when they issue new updates. Some occurring so often there is no way they did much testing before issue. Also seen first hand the routing issues. Granted they will get you where you are going but sometimes I think a drunk monkey could route you better.
While I think the pnd market will always be around Garmin better improve or become a "has been".

Thank you for your written analogy of Garmin! Hope you are sending to Garmin! Thinking of getting a Tom Tom!

It seems fair to me to assume that Garmin recognizes that there's little or no hope for a continuation of significant growth in the consumer GPS market. If you were in Garmin management, what would you do? Continue to commit financial and human resources on a line that is unlikely to grow despite your best efforts, or "cash cow" what you've got based on your past reputation and existing product line, while you focus your energies on areas (aviation, marine) where you have a better chance of increasing market share, revenues and profits year over year? From the standpoint of doing what's best for the company and its shareholders, which is what management is charged with doing, I think I know what my answer would be.

This kind of poor performance will only drive people to GPS built into cell phones all the quicker.

Garmin doesn't seem to want to compete.

Fred

I'm running version 4.0 Software on my Nuvi 765 and it likes to reboot at the most inconvenient times. I've gone to Garmin's dashboard website to update to the latest software release for my unit. Running with the latest software hasn't solved any of these reboot issues. Since I first purchased the unit it had reboot issues at the worst times. I own 2 of these units and they both exhibit these problems.

What units is version 5.4 for??

Here in the south sea islands we have few problems, their routing seems OK, but if they couldn’t get it right here they would really be having problems,I use my GPS to find the residential addresses mainly.

The routing is controlled by the map, the width and colour of the marked road, may be different at your place, but here the GPS likes to try to get onto the thick yellow roads.

That said, I think the problem is with the company who draws the maps.

Here we have a choice, we have a open source group who produce their own maps (for free and update every Friday. A new street opens today, it will be in the update on Friday). It’s one of the things I like about Garmin, you can load 3rd party maps, as we do with POI. May be you have some 3rd party maps which you can load.

My one problem with the software is when choosing the shortest route, if for any reason the GPS has to recalculate it always selects the fastest route after recalculating, not the shortest route.

You hit the nail on the head with your comment.

I think a couple of things are happening:

People are discovering that they really don't need a GPS for day to day use (though I think traffic data makes is useful in going to/from work).

People are trying to figure out what their phones can do. The initial thought is: My phone can do everything! I've tried the various GPS packages (Navigon - too much detail, Garmin - OK unless you're in an overcrowded cell phone area like leaving an event when you'd really want it to work, Tom Tom - which I think is probably the best for the iPhone BUT it still has the data limitation at a crowded even for traffic data) for my iPhone and while yes, it's a GPS on a phone, it's also a fairly small screen and not really in line with how I use my phone in my car. I can make it work in a pinch but after using it it's really not all that great. I think there are some that'll stick to it though because of the all-in-one aspect of it.

The screen problem is key to me. I can't just glance at it and see what's going on, I have to concentrate just a bit to focus in on it and orient myself with it. The Garmin sits on top of my dash and has a 5" screen. I glance over, see what I need to see, and glance back. No different than checking the rear view mirror. iPhone is more like trying to quickly read a text message while driving.

Still, I think people are trying to find their way with the new gadgets and many of them will think: iPhone (or smart phone) is all-in-one. I don't really use the GPS all that often, anyway, so it'll work in a pinch.

I think your general "I use my GPS nearly every day" guy will, in the long run, probably prefer to just use the GPS. This is probably the smaller of the two groups.

I have not gotten any new Garmin since my 6XX series and those been working great. Has it been that bad?

I remember the 1490 having some bad problems when it was first released. They had a lot of returns. They fixed the units (I think it was just new firmware) and sent them back out.

I bought a refurbished 1490 a few years back and it was always stable for me. I don't ever remember it resetting or doing anything stupid. The only thing that bugged me was some missing features (from StreetPilot days). Functionally, the refurbished unit I had was fine, though.

I think the 1490 was one of their worst screw ups.

Well stated Brad. It also may be that the GPS market expanded so rapidly & models proliferated such that Garmin's existing structure couldn't handle the growth while maintaining the high quality necessary for so many software updates.

Unfortunately, it really doesn't matter why. What counts is what Garmin intends to do about it.

Fred

Your model is later than the 7X0 series, so you prove the point.

....I am keeping my 350 until it dies. It works well and gets me where I want to go.

This is what happens when you're manufacturing high-tech in a market with shrinking sales and aggressive price competition. Pressure to cut costs turns it into a race to the bottom. This was fully predictable five years ago.

I have heard the 7x0 series is good. I have the 765T and there are still some bugs plus the Bluetooth is not as good as in the earlier models. The worst firmware was 3.90, that was finally updated to 4.00 a year ago. Still some glitches in that release and I doubt they will ever be fixed. I have zero interest in the new PND's as they have removed features I use. As an earlier post noted, there are too damn many models. Plus there is no clear low, middle, high-end models. With all the feature variation, you can spend more and get less than a cheaper model. I have basically gone to purchasing a new unit when it is just about the be discontinued and the price drops. I bought my old C550 when the price dropped to $160 and I bought my 765T when Amazon dropped it to $180. However, as I mentioned above, there is nothing in the new lines that intrigues me enough to go out and get another device, even on sale. I have lifetime maps on my 765T and not being able to transfer the subscription, even for a low administrative fee such as $15, forces me to stay with what I have.

At one point, early in the game, Garmin was all about quality.

Now they have so many devices they can't keep all of them up to date, and don't seem to care if they do.

Maybe - could be that with the market shrinking (people using their phones) that Garmin may realize that the people who do buy their products are the fairly hard-core GPS guys and they start bringing back the more advanced configuration and functionality into their new products and separate themselves from the 'ordinary' GPS or GPS software (on the phone).

I think one of the worst things they've done over the years is to introduce so many different models. At any one time you may have 30-50 models to choose from. I can understand 3-5 but I don't understand the huge number.

It seems like with 3 models available (entry, median, advanced and split out based on hardware specifications) and then maybe have some features that could be turned on or subscribed to separately you could give the consumer some options without overwhelming them. So, for example, you know you really like having the fancier GPS and you buy the current advanced model and purchase the options you want.

I also think their 1-year release cycle adds to the confusion. Years back I had a cousin who asked me which GPS to buy and I had to dig to get to a decent recommendation. It wasn't as simple as listing off a few features and saying, "Oh, this model has that - get that one."

I have had the C550 street pilot for 6 years, always take me from point A to point B with no problem it never fail me. I notice that some of you they own 3 or 4 model .and I ask my self why? is not what garmin want ? make more model and more money,one thing most of you do not realize keep going this way the product that you purchase today will be discontinued in a few year.( including mine).

I compare those GPS like those CELL phone.come on people who wants download a movie and watch it on a small screen like a cell phone or listen to a song,on a cell phone when you have an MP3 player on your car or your FM radio..

I also keep my C550 until it dies.it work great.and it gets me where I want to go.

I don't understand why they took out caller ID on 1490 model..
I would not buy that bluetooth model if I knew that before I placed the order.

765T and a 775T too, and have had no problems with them, but I always go back to my 360...great little GPS...small, and easy to carry while in Europe. I gave them to my daughters too!

I think you have hit the nail right on the head. The problems the OP has detailed would be caused by the map database and not by the routing algorithm or the GPS unit. If it was the routing algorithm that is used by the unit it would always do that in every place and at all times, not just occasionally.

I personally have seen something similar occur that had not happened prior occur after getting a new map update and later no longer repeat it again after a subsequent map update that corrected the map data.

I've had very few bugs or issues with mine - certainly less with the Garmin than built-in car GPS systems. Maybe I'm just gotten lucky with it.

I too have been fooled into getting routed way out of my way into traffic congestion when set to fastest way and I have traffic also.

....more convincing evidence I will never part with my 660.

I've noticed that, after the last couple of map updates, the routing has gotten weird. I've been routed down smaller back highways when I used to get routed on the main highways. It ends up taking me longer to get where I'm going because the thing wants me to turn off on some strange route rather than keeping on one main highway until it connects with another main highway.

The routing used to be excellent but it's really gotten strange these days. Sadly, I have NO directional sense and can't remember how I got somewhere previously. I NEED the stupid GPS and it has been an incredible asset to me when traveling for work. It still gets me where I need to get but I know it's not taking me the same way it used to take me and I wish I could get it to go back to the way it used to be.

The routing has been horrible. Sometimes I use my garmin even though I know the way just to see where IT takes me and it ain't pretty. Sometimes it takes me further away from my destination in order to get onto a different highway.

My 1490 routing made sense with the 2011 maps. Installing the 2012 maps totally screwed up the routing. It ignores fastest/shortest route and insists on adding 3 miles and 6 minutes to my 11 mile 17 minute commute. I can't rely on it giving me an accurate ETA anymore. With only 2 miles to go, it insists on a 5 mile route. It will reroute me a dozen times rather than go with the obvious shortest fastest route. I can no longer trust its routes at all.

I have also noted routing down to the center of a city and back out again instead of passing by on the Interstate. I remember Garmins used to do that when using Mapsource, before the days of the nuvi.

If Garmin doesn't come up with a solution to put their software on mobile smartphones soon, they will find themselves completely useless.

After the 2012.10 update I tried to get a fastest route to The Lost Abbey in San Marcos, CA (for the Veritas 009 release) and NO combination of preferences would keep me on the freeway although it was the ONLY way to get there. After selecting the default routing preferences, user defined preferences began working correctly again.

Huh?

Garmin offers two iOS apps - one that requires a data connection because maps are "in the cloud" - and one that puts a full map on the iOS device...

Plus, Garmin recently completed acquisition of Navigon - and they also have an IOS app, plus Android and WinMobile versions.

I still think, Garmin is the best of a bad bunch, I have friends (yep I do have some) with TomTom, Uniden, and others with smart phones, they all have similar complaints, I like Garmin because it’s easy to put POI’s on , change the maps to 3rd party maps, to name just a couple of things, the backup from Garmin has also been great.

To me it’s not that the unit has faults, it’s the way the manufacturer fixes them. Garmin have always fix the problems for me, no questions asked, from that point they’re OK.

For a company to do it 5x is exceptional and they were pleasent about it too.

Yep that's mapping, someone has changed the type of road on the map, it's a pitty we can't roll back and compare maps, if you loaded them on to your computer using mapsource (not sure about BaseCamp), sometimes it leaves a copy of the old maps there. If you did you'll be able to compare both sets of maps, its worth a look.

If it is in mapsource you may be able to roll back you if wanted too.

Yes, Garmin has its faults and its routings are sometimes a bit bizarre but I have owned two Tom Toms - one before I got the Garmin and a second that was forced onto me as it was in dash in a vehicle - and Tom Tom is horrendously worse than the Garmin The Tom Tom has routed me into parking lots and back out again onto the main road, sent me south only to direct me to make a U-turn to go north which was the direction that I needed to go, and does not turn on when plugged into the dash if it has not been used in a couple of weeks.

Look at the other GPS discussion boards on this site - thousands of threads here - and new threads and responses every day - a few threads a month on the other manufacturer discussions and rarely does anyone respond. No, it is not because there are no problems with those other manufacturers. Not every thread here is a complaint.

I agree, Garmin has to get their act together but if they look at their competition they know they have the market cornered. (And not everyone can afford a monthly contract on a smart phone with GPS.)

I'll start out by stating unequivocally that of course the units should route correctly. Period.

However, you can ask any of my fellow flight instructors on this site that when you teach a student to navigate and especially when they start to use the autopilot is that you have to confirm the hardware is taking you where you want to go BEFORE you take off. Once you are on your way you need to monitor the equipment to continue to do what you expect it to do. IOW, you can't just enter the destination and hit Go.

Again, I'll state unequivocally again that the unit should route correctly, but even if it does, it is only an aid.

But I agree. Garmin, fix this issue already.

This so far has been a great unit. I do miss my 855 though. Have not had one issue with this one yet.

I have a 760 and a 1450. So far, no problems yet.

While on a recent motorcycle trip I loaded the same POIs for our trip on everyone GARMINs. The one lead bike kept stopping because his 1300 kept routing him down private farm roads while my zumo 660 kept us on the right roads all of the time.

No fancy routing here since we didn't have a set itinerary. Just selecting POIs out in the countryside and selecting GO.

The bike with the 1300 on the handlebars was no longer allowed to be the lead dog.

It gets a little tough trying to u-turn 6 Touring Harleys 2 up on skinny hilly country roads.

Sad to hear the anger budd. Garmin's lack of interaction with there website is leading to there demise.

When Garmin introduced the Nuvi series.

They had the market cornered with the feature rich Street Pilot franchise topped off with the c550 c580 containing endless bells and whistles, then striped away the features and introduced the bare bones Nuvi 200. Garmin has been adding and removing features since with each incarnation of the Nuvi.

Moving manufacturing offshore didn't help the units, and poor quality control in firmware has plagued Garmin since the Nuvi's introduction.

It's called corporate greed. So that's when the wheels started falling off.

Then Garmin Got in bed with Asus, that's when the engine blew. In the separation agreement Garmin lost the rights to their own software for the Android OS, probably the largest segment of the smartphone field.

My old 2720 was built like a truck. My daughter still uses my old 680. My 765 works OK for now. The top of the line Garmin model should have a 3 year warranty included. If the 3760 had a 3 year warranty, I might get one. Apparantly, since it is not even an option, the unit must be expected to fail.
I will wait and hope for a better unit from Garmin. Hopefully soon.

Actually, the first of the Nuvis was the 360 - and it cost big $$$.

The i series (which long predated the Nuvis) sucked big time, the higher-numbered C series units were fairly good - but one trait shared by the models released pre-Nuvi-XX5 was that their firmware was pretty solid.

However nothing that followed them matched the old SP3, the 2000 series Streepilots and especially the GPSMAP 276c and it's bigger cousins.

As many high tech companies have experienced before, shifting a business based on hardware sales to a software only based activity while remaining profitable is not easy. Too many bad habits, heavy assets on the balance sheet now useless, and lack of agility have closed many who have tried.

I bought my C550 in 2008 because it had been top of the line. I replaced it with a 765T as it had a few more features than the C550 and was slimmer. The C550 is still used by my sister. I told her if she decides to get rid of it, I want it back.

I just took a trip from Chicago to Utah and Arizona. We re-visited all the National parks and my Garmin 3790 worked like a champ.
Sorry you had problems with your Garmin but I've owned them all and Garmin is by far the best out there. 2nd place goes to the TomTom LIVE 2535.

Sorry Keith your wrong!
Garmin does not offer a Android version of their software. Asus owns the exclusive rights for the next few years to Garmin's Android anything branded Garmin.

Now if you want to call the Navigon Android app Garmin that's up to you, however that's the farthest from the truth as you can get. I understand Garmin bought Navigon but Navigon software is Navigon and Garmin is Garmin, at for the next few years Asus is also Garmin and their plan is to keep it proprietary to their nuviphone type smartphone.

http://blogs.forbes.com/elizabethwoyke/2010/10/26/asus-chair...

You might want to read the linked article a little more carefully. Because in the article the reporter mentions this little snippet.

(emphasis is mine)

The fact Garmin has not chosen to offer its software for purchase on the Android Market has absolutely nothing to do with the agreement between Garmin and Asus. The only thing Asus gets is the ability to sell their phones with Garmin's software embedded (a.k.a preloaded) into the Asus Android ROMs. If Garmin wanted to take its Android software and put it on the Android Market tomorrow, Asus is not going to stop them.

Your post is worded in such a way as to leave the impression that Garmin is prohibited from selling the software independently of an Asus Smartphone. That is clearly untrue.