TomTom Sold Speeding Data To Police, Cops Used It To Bust Drivers

 
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thats a good reason not to

thats a good reason not to use tomtom products.

never trust a tomtom fron

never trust a tomtom fron now on...

this is how to turn people

this is how to turn people on lol

Did you read the article or just the headline?

mourton wrote:

This is a little scary.

.....cops-used-it-to-bust-drivers.html

They did not use the data to identify individual drivers and to issue them tickets (if that is what you meant by "bust" them).

The data was not user specific - it just identified areas where the speed limits were being exceeded. I don't see any thing scary about that.

This kind of thing is not new. One of Bill Gate’s first computer enterprises was a company named “Traf-O-Data” that gathered traffic data. That is how he made money and developed the computer programming skills to start Microsoft.

Data Tracking

I agree with Evert. The way I read the article, the information was used to identify "hot spots" and the police then set up cameras. Much the same as a parents group complaining about people speeding through a school zone, or community groups wanting enforcement of speed zones in residential areas. My take on the article is that TomTom was not providing personally-identifiable information, just driving trends.

It used to be witches and demons that the peons of the past feared, but now we have the Big Evil State twisted

tomtom

And to think I was thinking about getting a TomTom. Well I guess I'll stick with Garmin.

Still a bad idea

I have to believe that TomTom had to know that giving the data to the police even though it was not user specific was going to be used by the police to find out where the best locations are to give out speeding tickets.
I have more of an issue with TomTom collecting this data in the first place.

Just Drive safely

tke1 wrote:

.... giving the data to the police even though it was not user specific was going to be used by the police to find out where the best locations are to give out speeding tickets.
....

Those speeding tickets can be easily avoided simply by complying with the speed limit.

What?

tke1 wrote:

I have more of an issue with TomTom collecting this data in the first place.

You think Garmin doesn't collect this data? They simply haven't sold it to a police department...yet.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Kidding???

The almighty buck

Not a bad idea

tke1 wrote:

Still a bad idea I have to believe that TomTom had to know that giving the data to the police even though it was not user specific was going to be used by the police to find out where the best locations are to give out speeding tickets.

Speeding is one of the leading causes of traffic accidents. Knowing where speeding most often takes place and then instituting measures to reduce such speeding seems to me to be a way to protect citizens.

Does it matter whether the data is gleaned by direct observation or from "data mining"?

Does, perhaps, the objection really stem from the fact that some people want to be able to "speed" when it suits them to do so (i.e., I'm late, etc.)?

As was said above, stay within the speed limit and you need not worry.

How do you know Garmin doesn't?

tke1 wrote:

I have to believe that TomTom had to know that giving the data to the police even though it was not user specific was going to be used by the police to find out where the best locations are to give out speeding tickets.
I have more of an issue with TomTom collecting this data in the first place.

And how do you know that Garmin does not collect data like this as well? The terms of service say that they can. I think in this day and age, it would be wise to issue a policy statement rather than answer to a news reporter later on. Just look at Apple and Android companies under fire for collecting location data from the phones without being transparent about it. I have no problem with it if they are up front about it.

This kind of data is really valuable because it maps REAL traffic data. It's FAR more useful than those older methods of measuring how many cars go past a certain point. This is a gold mine for the streets and highway department to analyze traffic congestion and patterns so that they can plan for road upgrades and expansion.

.

This is a very good reason to wipe your track logs before connecting to the Garmin site.

I also typically take out my SD card as well to avoid a chance of data corruption, but who knows what they access.

Data mining has gone far beyond what should have been allowed legally.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Here's Another One..

Evert wrote:

"Those speeding tickets can be easily avoided simply by complying with the speed limit."

Sounds like here's another one who can do NO wrong! rolleyes

Nuvi1300WTGPS

--
I'm not really lost.... just temporarily misplaced!

I disagree with this....

jgermann wrote:

As was said above, stay within the speed limit and you need not worry.

I was traveling at 0 MPH which I believe is under the speed limit and have been hit twice. Seems to me there may be other causes to accidents than speeding...

In addition, I have had no incidents while traveling over the limit or by someone who was at the time.

I would suggest that not paying attention would be the largest and most dangerous offense on our roadways.

--
Streetpilot C340 Nuvi 2595 LMT

I apologize to shrifty

shrifty wrote:
jgermann wrote:

As was said above, stay within the speed limit and you need not worry.

I was traveling at 0 MPH which I believe is under the speed limit and have been hit twice. Seems to me there may be other causes to accidents than speeding...

In addition, I have had no incidents while traveling over the limit or by someone who was at the time.

I need to learn to be complete in my thoughts. When I said that, by staying within the speed limit, one need not worry, I was assuming that my statement would be interpreted in the context of getting a speeding ticket.

Clearly, there are all kinds of awful things that can happen while someone in their vehicle but not speeding.

Thanks for the clarification

jgermann wrote:
shrifty wrote:
jgermann wrote:

As was said above, stay within the speed limit and you need not worry.

I was traveling at 0 MPH which I believe is under the speed limit and have been hit twice. Seems to me there may be other causes to accidents than speeding...

In addition, I have had no incidents while traveling over the limit or by someone who was at the time.

I need to learn to be complete in my thoughts. When I said that, by staying within the speed limit, one need not worry, I was assuming that my statement would be interpreted in the context of getting a speeding ticket.

Clearly, there are all kinds of awful things that can happen while someone in their vehicle but not speeding.

I mis-read what you had typed.

I agree, there would be no need to worry about a ticket within the speed limit, however there are still plenty of dangers to worry about!

--
Streetpilot C340 Nuvi 2595 LMT

And I was....

mourton wrote:

This is a little scary.

http://consumerist.com/2011/04/tomtom-sold-speeding-data-to-police-cops-used-it-to-bust-drivers.html

going to switch to TomTom....R I G H T!!!

--
"Backward, turn backward, oh time in your flight, make me a child again, just for tonight."

I am not a Saint

Nuvi1300WTGPS wrote:
Evert wrote:

"Those speeding tickets can be easily avoided simply by complying with the speed limit."

Sounds like here's another one who can do NO wrong! rolleyes

Nuvi1300WTGPS

I stated a simple fact - it is true whether I do any wrong or not.

On the other hand, you sound like an careless person who speeds more often than not, and thinks it is OK to do so.

I smell a cat fight coming...

C'mon folks, relax a little.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Don't worry

Juggernaut wrote:

I smell a cat fight coming...

C'mon folks, relax a little.

There will be no cat fight. I will not respond any further about the matter.

Best advice

Juggernaut wrote:

This is a very good reason to wipe your track logs before connecting to the Garmin site.

I also typically take out my SD card as well to avoid a chance of data corruption, but who knows what they access.

Data mining has gone far beyond what should have been allowed legally.

Regardless of people speeding or not, this is the best advice.

Companies are over stepping their bounds when they start collecting this so called "anonymous" information and selling it for profit. Nothing prevents them to start pairing where the data came from (gps serial #) with the name/address/phone number when you register your product. I'm just sick and tired of all these tracking. It should be illegal.

Just erase the logs before connecting. Don't feed them any more info. They have no right to know where you've been, how long you've been there, or where you go more often (or how fast). It is the principle of the thing, it doesn't matter if you have something to hide or not.

I'm going to go as far as deleting my favorites before I connect to update. They don't need to know. Period. They can be restored easily (thanks to this site for that knowledge)

--
Garmin nuvi 1300LM with 4GB SD card Garmin nuvi 200W with 4GB SD card Garmin nuvi 260W with 4GB SD card r.i.p.

.

Yes, tracks, faves, and recently found are all deleted. I back up my Faves to the card with EPE, and update it when I load new POI's.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

wow

wow

point is, tomtom profits

point is, tomtom profits from these data, without users consent, violation of pirvacy, my opinion. lets not foreget recent events with apple and google...

I don't agree with what they

I don't agree with what they did. However, be careful in tossing out accusations of privacy violation. It was made clear on the endgaget article on this topic (http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/27/tomtom-user-data-sold-to-...) that...

Quote:

To be totally clear all this data is being collected anonymously and the police have no idea exactly who is speeding, just that speeding has taken place.

The question here is whether you believe the statement or not. If you do, then logically there can be no violation of privacy as there is no personally identifiable information. If you don't, then you can accuse TomTom of privacy violations, but make sure you can prove your claims.

Also note that in the same article it is clearly stated by a TomTom official that they are changing the section of the EULA on how they disseminate data, to prevent a repeat occurrence of this.

By the way, for the record, in the Garmin EULA, it specifies that...

Quote:

B. Non-Personally Identifiable Information: Because Non-PII does not personally identify you, we may use such information for any purpose. Garmin collects non-PII from devices that are not registered on my.Garmin.com and thus are not associated with any PII. We may use this information to detect broad demographic trends and to otherwise enhance our products or applications. We reserve the right to share such Non PII, which does not personally identify you, with third parties, for any purpose.

and...

Quote:

D. Law Enforcement; Assignment: We reserve the right to disclose PII about you to others as we believe to be appropriate: (a) under applicable law or regulation, including laws or regulations outside your country of residence; (b) to comply with legal process; (c) to respond to requests from public authorities and law enforcement officials, including public authorities and law enforcement officials outside your country of residence; (d) to enforce our terms and conditions; (e) to protect our operations or those of any of our affiliates and subsidiaries; (f) to protect the rights, privacy, safety or property of Garmin, its affiliates and subsidiaries, you, or others; and (g) to permit us to pursue available remedies or limit the damages that we may sustain.

Further, we reserve the right to transfer any and all information that we collect from users to an affiliate, a subsidiary, or a third party in the event of any reorganization, merger, sale, joint venture, assignment, transfer, or other disposition of all or any portion of Garmin's business, assets, or stock (including, without limitation, in connection with any bankruptcy or similar proceeding.

If you're deleting track logs and the like from a Garmin already, then you should be in good shape.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Actually, I don't

Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

You think Garmin doesn't collect this data? They simply haven't sold it to a police department...yet.

Actually, I don't think Garmin collects that data. Tomtom has a system where user contributed data helps identify/confirm new roads, provide traffic analysis, etc. Tomtom users could opt in our out of supplying their data to contribute to the project. Garmin has nothing like this, and AFAIK, they don't grab any data from your GPSr.

.

Nomad, would you bank on that? I wouldn't.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

.

There is a proper way to set speed limits and if a large majority of the populace are speeding at some place it is one major indicator that speed limits are set too low for the conditions.

Given the convoluted thinking that the politicos use, they could employ the data to CREATE conditions to encourage speeding by reducing speed limits below what the speed that the 85th percentile of traffic is traveling, solely to generate revenue.

Where I live the service roads to freeways are in industrial areas. There are no pedestrians. There are no stop signs. There are no turns. There are very few turnoffs and driveways.

Yet the speed limits are set to 30 mph and the police are out there regularly with their laser tag toys and multiple chase cars ticketing furiously.

Based on sound engineering practice, the solution is NOT to ticket, but rather to set the limits to something more reasonable. But changing the signs would deprive the city of money to hand out to their Mafia-related cronies who do shoddy paving at vastly inflated prices and such.

The reality is simply that there's no reason to be upset with TomTom, because they are providing information that the cities themselves can collect, saving the taxpayer the cost of running traffic surveys (because you are doing it for them).

While the data is legitimate, it is the cities who use it as revenue determinants who should be taken to task because it is not used to improve safety, but rather is all about the money they can make from it (isn't it always?).

Note that the data that TomTom and Garmin might provide is possibly skewed a bit if it turns out that GPS-equipped drivers as a group may travel a bit faster than little old ladies sitting on telephone books, who are a lot less likely to be technologically enlightened.

--
Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T

No TomTom

This is scandalous on the part of TomTom.

They all collect it

There is competition amongst the GPSR manufacturers to have the best routing. A big part of determining the fastest route is knowing how fast traffic travels on the roads instead of blindly using the speed limits.

And, those of you who are afraid of being tracked from your GPSR logs. You are still not safe when you delete the log. You must also turn off your cell phone. It would be best to turn the phone on when you want to make a call, but never while in motion. You can be tracked from you cell signal more easily than from your GPSR. Think about that for a while...

and this...

And this suprises us because...? Money talks and it doesn't care who it talks too smile

Foolish Man, It's In The EULA!

-Nomad- wrote:
Strephon_Alkhalikoi wrote:

You think Garmin doesn't collect this data? They simply haven't sold it to a police department...yet.

Actually, I don't think Garmin collects that data. Tomtom has a system where user contributed data helps identify/confirm new roads, provide traffic analysis, etc. Tomtom users could opt in our out of supplying their data to contribute to the project. Garmin has nothing like this, and AFAIK, they don't grab any data from your GPSr.

Then you clearly didn't read the Garmin EULA, nor my post just above yours. Ignorance is no excuse.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Very Interesting, but, not very funny!

I drive from Canada to Florida three or four times per year and note that Garmin does not always reflect the correct speed limit as posted. I don't know how useful the information would be until Garmin can get it's posted speed limits in sync with their the data in their units.

My two cents

--
Wanted -Woman with GPS -send picture of GPS

wow that sucks

wow that sucks another reason not to buy a tom tom

wow, i just bought one, scary

wow, i just bought one, scary

.

alrom45 wrote:

I drive from Canada to Florida three or four times per year and note that Garmin does not always reflect the correct speed limit as posted. I don't know how useful the information would be until Garmin can get it's posted speed limits in sync with their the data in their units.

My two cents

They don't need the speed limits, just the section of road you were on and how fast you were going . . .

--
Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T

Neightborhood speeds?

bramfrank wrote:

There is a proper way to set speed limits and if a large majority of the populace are speeding at some place it is one major indicator that speed limits are set too low for the conditions.

Given the convoluted thinking that the politicos use, they could employ the data to CREATE conditions to encourage speeding by reducing speed limits below what the speed that the 85th percentile of traffic is traveling, solely to generate revenue.

Where I live the service roads to freeways are in industrial areas. There are no pedestrians. There are no stop signs. There are no turns. There are very few turnoffs and driveways.

Yet the speed limits are set to 30 mph and the police are out there regularly with their laser tag toys and multiple chase cars ticketing furiously.

Based on sound engineering practice, the solution is NOT to ticket, but rather to set the limits to something more reasonable. But changing the signs would deprive the city of money to hand out to their Mafia-related cronies who do shoddy paving at vastly inflated prices and such.

The reality is simply that there's no reason to be upset with TomTom, because they are providing information that the cities themselves can collect, saving the taxpayer the cost of running traffic surveys (because you are doing it for them).

While the data is legitimate, it is the cities who use it as revenue determinants who should be taken to task because it is not used to improve safety, but rather is all about the money they can make from it (isn't it always?).

Note that the data that TomTom and Garmin might provide is possibly skewed a bit if it turns out that GPS-equipped drivers as a group may travel a bit faster than little old ladies sitting on telephone books, who are a lot less likely to be technologically enlightened.

I guess the speed limit in my neighborhood need to be dramatically increased according to your logic. People constantly doing way over the limit. Love it when I see people getting pulled over in the neighborhood.

Oh, Please>>>

gdam908 wrote:

never trust a tomtom fron now on...

do you use credit/debit cards? Your data is being mined. Do you have netflix? Your data is being mined. Do you have cable TV, you data is being mined. Do you use EZPass, your data is being mined.

I did a paper in college 35-40 years ago about the coming dangers of the computer age...raised a few eyebrows...turns out I was right. Have to see if I an find it (probably still tacked to my Mom's refrigerator smile ) and post it smile

--
"You can't get there from here"

I agree with you -

Thanos_of_MW wrote:
Juggernaut wrote:

This is a very good reason to wipe your track logs before connecting to the Garmin site.

I also typically take out my SD card as well to avoid a chance of data corruption, but who knows what they access.

Data mining has gone far beyond what should have been allowed legally.

Regardless of people speeding or not, this is the best advice.

Companies are over stepping their bounds when they start collecting this so called "anonymous" information and selling it for profit. Nothing prevents them to start pairing where the data came from (gps serial #) with the name/address/phone number when you register your product. I'm just sick and tired of all these tracking. It should be illegal.

Just erase the logs before connecting. Don't feed them any more info. They have no right to know where you've been, how long you've been there, or where you go more often (or how fast). It is the principle of the thing, it doesn't matter if you have something to hide or not.

I'm going to go as far as deleting my favorites before I connect to update. They don't need to know. Period. They can be restored easily (thanks to this site for that knowledge)

I agree with both of you 100%. I, too, am getting sick of "Big Brother" and the antics played on a daily basis.

"Smart Meters" from GE, as an example, are nothing more than snooping into our personal lives. They obtain information on when we use the most electricity. Then they will charge us more when we run our appliances at times they think we should not, or send us nasty letters telling us to run our dish or clothes washer on their schedules.

Enough is Enough!!

point to ponder

has anyone reported a stolen tomtom gps to them?? what was the reaction from them? did they say sorry to heard that, what do you expect us to do, or was it will keep a look out for it when it gets connected and will report it to the police. it the response it the prior and they are will to sell data to authorities, then it might be time to look else where for a gps unit.

Now that's

Unbelievable! I would think that's a good way to drum up some new business. Well that's one GPS manufacturer I will not be buying from!! What a bunch of A__ h____s!

--
2597 Sometimes I wonder..."Why is that Frisbee getting bigger?"...and then, it hits me.

.

wknight40 wrote:

I guess the speed limit in my neighborhood need to be dramatically increased according to your logic. People constantly doing way over the limit. Love it when I see people getting pulled over in the neighborhood.

It isn't 'my' logic. It is the scientific, human factors and and traffic engineering standard for setting speed limits.

The proper way is to track the speed of traffic in an otherwise unmetered area and set the speed limit equal to the 85th percentile's averaged speed.

Setting speed limits to suit the locale reduces driver stress and accidents.

Roads are engineered for certain speeds. Setting the limits too low results in frustration - drivers will, in general travel at a speed that i most comfortable.

That is one reason (among others) why many residential neighborhoods have lots of curved roads.

To slow down traffic the traffic department has a number of tools, including stop signs and red lights, speed bumps and obstacles, such as planters.

Up here I believe that they've discovered one more mechanism to slow down traffic; Shoddy paving work resulting in huge pot holes.

--
Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T

That is not good news

That is not good news

However...

bramfrank wrote:
wknight40 wrote:

I guess the speed limit in my neighborhood need to be dramatically increased according to your logic. People constantly doing way over the limit. Love it when I see people getting pulled over in the neighborhood.

It isn't 'my' logic. It is the scientific, human factors and and traffic engineering standard for setting speed limits.

The proper way is to track the speed of traffic in an otherwise unmetered area and set the speed limit equal to the 85th percentile's averaged speed.

Setting speed limits to suit the locale reduces driver stress and accidents.

it increases stress on residents of the neighborhood with children and pets.

While I would agree that it is not branfrank's "logic", I disagree that the technique espoused by many for determining speed limits should be universally applied.

I would submit that the proper way to set speed limits in residential neighborhoods, school zones and hospital zones should NOT take into account what the 85th percentile's averaged speed is.

Garmin Always - stay with

Garmin Always - stay with the best...

--
NickJr Nuvi 3597LMT

.

jgermann wrote:

it increases stress on residents of the neighborhood with children and pets.

While I would agree that it is not branfrank's "logic", I disagree that the technique espoused by many for determining speed limits should be universally applied.

I would submit that the proper way to set speed limits in residential neighborhoods, school zones and hospital zones should NOT take into account what the 85th percentile's averaged speed is.

I understand where you are coming from and obviously for every rule there can be exceptions, however kids should not be playing in the middle of a street on a main thoroughfare where people are likely to be going faster than the local property owners would like.

It is unfortunate that many city planners have no idea about proper road design - setting up long straight wide roads in rectangular grids with few stop signs creates the conditions that result in higher than desired rates of travel no matter the posted speed limit . . . and on the other hand, many property owners wouldn't be happy unless passing traffic was moving at less than 15 mph.

But realize that the speed information sent to the police would be used to extract maximum return from the speed traps . . . so the reality is that it wouldn't matter whether there were speeders on your street; it is the NUMBER OF SPEEDERS that would get their attention because
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wait for it
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It has nothing to do with safety
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It is all about the money.

Occasional speeders in a residential neighborhood simply don't financially justify setting up a speed trap (unless some poor child has been hit and possibly killed, and even then for only as long as the public pays attention.

So using other means of keeping drivers at 'acceptable' speeds need to be used - as I pointed out in the previous message.

--
Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T

WTF

Here's a another reason why I didn't get a Tom Tom.

No real disagreement

bramfrank wrote:

So using other means of keeping drivers at 'acceptable' speeds need to be used - as I pointed out in the previous message.

The problem facing traffic planners is that the neighborhoods exist; the schools and hospitals are standing where they are. I just wanted to point out that a formula that works generally does not always apply universally.

I also assume that the 85th percentile rule takes into account the accidents that are occuring. I need to look that up.

This is not what I want for

This is not what I want for the GPS industry!

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