Forcing A Route Calculation a Certain Way

I too have had the same problem in trying to follow scenic routes. The best answer, don't do routing. Use a paper map to verify the key points you need to pass and just view the moving positional map on the display to verify your location.

This is what I had to do earlier this fall driving the Natchez Trace Parkway from Natchez to Nashville. The one "trick" I used was to set a waypoint at where I got off the track so I could have the unit guide me back to that spot.

GPS (as far as I know) doesn't take input from user when calculating route. All you can do is to prefer shortest or fastest route with avoiding some places like toll roads.

If you need to "manually" select your route the only way is to make route in mapsource or create waypoints in a manner that will force GPS to calculate through them along your route. But be careful with route from mapsource as during transmission to unit it sends only waypoints. So after importing route to unit check if it will calculate same route like in mapsource.

I like to have the GPS navigating so ETA, distance, etc. data available. So just watching the GPS and not using navigation is not an option.

I can create routes in Garmin Roadtrtip, but I had to use the max allowable of 50 waypoints to make sure that the GPS didn't want go get off the BRP for a little while.

Simply selecting the end waypoint and letting the GPS do the routing is preferable.

Oh well, I thought maybe I was missing something, but it looks like the GPS has to be carefully led once in a while.

Anyone else have the same issue and a good work around?

While I have the issue when travelling longer distances, I can partially rectify the problem by using my avoidances and making sure that unpaved roads are eligible. I've found that a lot of scenic drives are considered unpaved or off route roads.

The other solution was alluded to by turning off the route and only inputing the start and end points of the "drive". It is an interesting question and I'll be watching for other user input!

When I travelled down the BRP, my GPS showed just fine but I'm not sure what I did!!

I agree that a pre-made route in MapSource or BaseCamp is the best way to go. That way you're not always messing with the unit while on the road. I've made a couple of motorcycle routes on favorite roads (which don't really make sense for either fastest OR shortest!) and sometimes it takes a LOT of strategic points in between to get it routed correctly.

But I'm thinking that a relatively straight road like the BRP and/or Skyline drive should have worked well with just a few added vias.. the kind where you view the map and point to a spot on the road (not a town or other waypoint) and add it as a via.

Is that the type of 'extra added waypoint' you used?

edit- OK, straight isn't the word I was looking for! I meant single road, reasonably limited access, I guess! BRP/Skyline definitely aren't straight roads!

I love Garmins but VIA routes are a big missing. That is why a bought a TOMTOM to have along with my Garmin. On the TomTom I can do scenic routes using the VIA feature.

If you input start and end points, how do you turn off the route? Doesn't it automatically route it and if it doesn't route it, how do you get to the end point?

?? I've done those type of on-the-fly vias on my 765T several times when not using pre-made routes. Haven't yet tried it on my 295W, but I'm pretty sure it will, too.
?? Are you referring (maybe) to the limited amount of them you can use on a Garmin? Does TomTom allow more, or something?

You only have two options. The best option is a GPS that supports custom routes. I use MapSource to do exactly that with a Nuvi 760. It's a little tedious, but I drag the route to the roads I want. Nuvi faithfully follows exactly what I want. Used this method earlier this year on the Blue Ridge Parkway. Lovely trip!

Second option is to place a lot of waypoints if you have a unit that does not support saving custom routes.

A lot of the time when I want a custom route, I will use rest areas that are a hundred or so miles apart. That way, I stop every two hours or so and then when I get ready to leave, I just hit the next waypoint. I used this method when I drove to Miami and back earlier this year. Took a little while to set up, but it worked like a charm. I even programmed it to take me out of the way a couple of times to see some things that I wanted to check out.

On a route that I use many times, I have found all the shortcuts. So I save that route and use it to cut 150 miles off of a 1,000 mile trip.

Our circle trip through IL,KY,TN,AR & MO was broken up into a route for each day, using state & local highways. I was happy with the routes except from Forrest City to Little Rock AR. The 1490 insisted I depart US 70 for I-40 time & time again. I stopped the routing & went with Map View, then engaged the route after Little Rock.
I need to find a method to not announce the intermediate way points along the route.

I frequently create my own route, and most recently did so from Miami, FL to Rock Springs, WY. About 2600 miles. Here is the method I use for setting my own route which allows me to see my arrival time, etc.

First, I get out the old paper maps and figure out how I want to get to where I am going. I take a lot of US highways, even when interstates are available. I prefer them when it's not inconvenient, especially in the more scenic areas of the country.

Next, I select places along my desired route, in the above case it was about 40 waypoints. Then I go into either MapSource, or browse the map on the Nuvi. (Mapsource is much easier due to screen size).

Once I have selected the necessary waypoints, (and transferred them from MapSource if I used it) I then create a new custom route and manually order the waypoints. Once the route is created, I do a preview of it and make changes by adding waypoints if necessary.

This works well most of the time. It is a pain in the a$$, but sometimes it is well worth it. Sometimes I do it on a day to day basis once I get to my hotel and figure out where I will drive to the next day. That is less work as there are less waypoints needed.

Hope this helps.

Prior to telling your Nuvi where you want to go show the map on the screen and select the start and end of the route you want to use and on each point select save and then name it IE: VA #1, VA #2 and then go back to your home screen and tell it where you want to go and then after it caculates the route, select where to again and select the waypoints that you have installed and hit go, and then select "add as via point" and continue to add as many as you need. Your Nuvi will recalculate the route and it will go the way that you want to go.

Charlie
cvcurtis

I can think of one solution (if you know where you want to go in advance) and one idea that might work.

1. If you know the route you want to use in advance:

Using Google maps; after setting the start and end of the route, you can move the route by dragging it to the roads you want to use, then use the "Send" link on top of the map and select the "Send to to GPS" option on the pop up box. (You need to have installed the Garmin communicator pluggin, http://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=999-99... ) save it to your GPS, that way you can go to favorites (at least in my nuvi, I think) look up your route and there you go.

2. The other idea I got is the following:

I have a nuvi 855 and after setting a destination, in the main screen appears the "Detour" icon, you can select a detour by distance (1/2,2 and 5 miles) or "Detour by Roads in Route".

I have used this to go around a ramp that is closed to the highway due to construction, the nuvi will recalculate and offer a detour depending on the distance or roads you prefer. If your GPS have this function maybe you can try this and see if it gives you the route you want.

I use google maps drag the route to wherever roads I select and save to GPS.

1. If you know the route you want to use in advance: Using Google maps; after setting the start and end of the route, you can move the route by dragging it to the roads you want to use, then use the "Send" link on top of the map and select the "Send to to GPS" option on the pop up box. (You need to have installed the Garmin communicator pluggin, http://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=999-99... ) save it to your GPS, that way you can go to favorites (at least in my nuvi, I think) look up your route and there you go.

When you load a route from any source and activate it the Nuvi routing engine doesn't use the route but recalculates a route based on internal settings rather than the instructions and waypoints contained in the file.

IIRC, there are several HTML tags used in a downloaded route, two being rte for route and waypoint for designated points. The nuvi routing engine calculates a new route between waypoints and discards the rte statements.

Well I used this method this summer when going to several yard sales. I would go to google maps, set the addresses and create a route, save it and start driving, and the nuvi will take me there in the order I set it, I don't remember driving in any other roads but the ones saved previously, unless I didn't notice it.

Generally you won't notice any difference in the routing until you get to areas where there is a slight difference in distance or time. It will also depend on the distance of your route as well. I've had routes laid out using Mapsource that follow major highways and Interstates but when transferred to my 885 are recalculated to use secondary and surface streets because the unit thinks its route will save a few feet or seconds.

Here is an example I know from experience. Create a route in MS from Texarkana, TX to Waco. Use the rest stop at N33.16532 W95.28593 (near Rutherford) to force I-30 & I-35W. Mapsource routes you around Dallas on I-635, my Nuvi routes me through Dallas on I-30 to I-35E. Normally this wouldn't be much of a problem except at any time other than between 6A-8P M-F.

It looks like getting the GPS to calculate a route a certain way does involve manual intervention, and sometimes quite a bit.

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

To force a route I have a custom POI file (called Via Points) I set up with via points (with appropriate naming) that I got the coordinates for from either Mapsource or MS Streets & Trips.
I input my "final" destination for a particular leg of my trip and then select the desired via points from my previously calculated via points from my Custom POI file.

Can't you tell it to avoid freeways?

My Nuvis don't have that option, only avoid highways which is something you don't want to do. Always thought that was dumb.

I use Navteq.com to do my route planning. Gives you the same results as your Garmin. (At least it always has for me). It lets me set the same avoids, or play with them until I get what I want. BUT, sometimes it's not going to go. Blue Ridge Parkway is, in my opinion, the most beautiful stretch of road in the country, BUT,it's neither fast or short, and there really aren't any places ON the Pkwy to set as way points, unless you just pull out random coordinates along the way. I think Garmin tries to keep it simple for the the majority of users who want to either find out how to get there or where they're at.

My daughters call me all the time when they need to detour (I guess they still trust the old man more than Garmin, I guess that's a good thing) but I usually use Navteq to get them the same route their Nuvi will. Nuvi also doesn't consider the type of neighborhoods, hills & dangerous intersections like the old man does, so I like to see the routes before I send them off.

Avoiding freeways didn't work.

The Blue Ridge Parkway is something between a freeway and secondary road.

It looks like loading up with way/viapoints is what has to be done.

This method may have been discussed (I may have missed it).

Here's a relatively easy way to shape a route using the GPS and usually only requires about 1-3 strategic vias to be effective.

1. Set up your initial route as you always do with your final destination using the "Where To" and let the GPS figure it out.

2. Do a route preview "show on map" and see how it routed you. If you want to change alter/shape/force the route go to step 3.

3. Do another "Where To" but this time use the "Browse Map" option to pick a via point (by pointing to it on the map) along your "desired" route. After selecting the point you say "go!" (at the bottom of the browse screen) and the GPS will give you 2 choices "set new destination" or "add a via point". Choose Via Point and the new route will be calculated. Often, a single via will get the job done for you. Go back to step 2 check the route and add more vias if you need more shaping.

Caveat: with multiple vias you may have to actually re-order the vias if they get entered in reverse order (edit the current route).

It is a manual process but pretty fast once you get the hang of it. What's another 5 minutes of planning to go the way you want. The key to simplicity is picking strategic vias that limit the GPS routing choices.

I set the start and end pts as a favourite. I then use gps to get to start point. I set gps to end point - if it shows desired route ok then I use gps. If not I stay on my "scenic drive" and periodically do new gps route to end point until it works. Not really elegant but it saves a lot of pre-planning time or entering lots of short "via" points on the fly!

I'm in the process of planning a 20K trip (2 months on the road)around North America and I've split it into legs that I'm loading on the gps. Since I'm not leaving for a few months, I can pre-test/pre-drive on the gps first.

BTW when I load the info to the gps I also load my reservation/confirmation numbers and contact information so I can call from the road if needed.

Go to Wrench-Navigation-Avoidances. Then add "Highways" as one of your avoidances. If this Skyline Drive and Blue Ridge Parkway are not considered highways, it might help. However, if it gfinds another street that it considers faster, it might just get you off there again.

Thanks... tried that too. I think it's just that there are several roads in close proximity that are pretty much parallel, and the categorization of the roads that is used to determine the route from fastest to shortest, and maybe in-between, just didn't let my GPS stay on the Blue Ridge Parkway/Skyline drive. It always wanted to go to another parallel road.

But there is clear consensus that this is something experienced by many, and it is addressed by via/waypoints.

Thanks everyone.

Waypoint setting has been the only way I have successfully defeated the route calculation to follow my desired roads.

On the fly I have found it best to just work out the route myself by following the map display.

Which goes back to my original response of plan the route using paper maps and know the general route so following the map display you can stay on the route. If you can determine stopping points - and along the BRP there aren't many - you can have a POI file used to generate alerts as you approach the point.

And Mapsource (pc) or RoadTrip (mac).

I have created custom routes with RoadTrip with as few as 3 waypoints for a 300+ mile trip. On my 765t, I just go to the menu and load my custom route.

But your routes weren't following scenic routes and secondary roads. Using Garmin's software, both on the computer and internal, it is almost impossible to get the route to stay on a scenic route when other roads might be available.

Exactly! I knew this was going to be challenging when it took many waypoints in RoadTrip to get it to stay on the Blue Ridge Parkway. And it is kinda aggravating when the unit calculates yet a sightly different route.

And there are several options in close proximity to the Blue Ridge Parkway that the GPS just seemed to want to head to, regardless of avoidances that were set. The only way to do this is with lots of via/waypoints.

Well, I'm glad I'm not alone and I wasn't missing anything.

Thanks for all the comments.

I guess I'n just lucky with my 760, then. The 760 has always followed exactly what I have drawn out in MapSource. I'm not sure what the purpose of laying out custom routes actually is if the Nuvi would just recalculate to it's own preferences after you import a custom route. That's never happened with the 760. Manually forcing scenic routes and secondary roads is exactly why I wanted a unit that did custom routes.

I tried a longer route and the Nuvi made its own route calculation, not following the route from google maps, so I guess I will have to try a different way of doing custom routs.

Mapsource 6.16.3, route prefs- Car/Motorcycle, faster time, prefer minor roads ..

Manually created a route with the route tool for Skyline Drive N to S using 10 points (vias/waypoints) and autoroute on.

Manually created a route in the same fashion for Blue Ridge Pkwy N to S with 37 points & autorouting.

No plans to drive it real soon, but if I load it into either my 765T or 295W and it didn't stay on the route.. I'd be VERY surprised, and would demand my money back for both units.

Saved both as gpx, looks fine in BaseCamp too.

On the parkway with Jill announcing those 37 via points 3 times for each, will get annoying, I'm thinking.

I use the UnFlag utility to convert all those Via Points to Route Points. Route points work exactly the same say, but do not put a flag on the map and do not announce anything when you approach or pass them.

I don't mind a flag or two on a manual route, but whenever I have something very detailed that ends up with a lot of via points, I run it through UnFlag first!

Download the UnFlag utility here:
http://www.fes-software.nl/zumo/unflag.zip

No they are route point 'vias' drawn when using the route tool .. I'm not certain what their correct term is (although I think johnc is right with 'route point'). They don't announce like waypoints but rather they are there in the route 'internally'. A bit like track points I suppose.

I will admit to finding something I have never before noticed- When I transferred the BRP route to my 765T, it DID route one small section differently than MapSource or BaseCamp. It's a particularly tricky section near Deep Gap, NC where there are several larger road alternatives. The nuvi calcuated that section differently than MS or BaseCamp. I was able to fix it easy enough by inserting an additional route point though. I'm going to find out who/where to report that to Garmin, because either software needs to calculate using the same method that the unit does, imo. I would expect a pre-defined route to calculate differently than one 'on the fly' in the unit, or what's the point?

Anyway, I was trying to see just how few points were needed for each route in this case but I usually put a route point at every important turn otherwise.

Oh yeah...

OK, they do announce but only about as annoying as the turn instructions. And 38 in a 469 mile route isn't hateful, imo. I suppose if dead silence is what you want you can use a paper map and leave the family at home.

If RoadTrip won't do it in less than 50 points, maybe you should try BaseCamp.

If you want a copy of my gpx route, send me a message and I'll email it to you. It routes fine in BaseCamp & on my two units (now that I added the one xtra point, for 38 total).

Thanks, but I finally figured out a work-around.

My GPSMAP60CSx beeps to alert approaching waypoints/vias. I do think the beeps can be turned off, but I like them for the "real" alerts. I needed the max of 50 points to keep me on the BRP, and it wasn't pleasant being beeped that often.

When I was at the southern terminus of the BRP, I selected the northern terminus and told told the GPS to calculate a course, no waypoints, routes, etc. It never came close to staying on the BRP. It got off the BRP as soon as possible. And I tried all the avoidance/preferences, etc.

The thing is, that we should be choosing waypoints because that where we want to go, not to prevent the GPS from doing what we don't want to do.

That said, it is probably very difficult to assign a characteristic to a road such that the desired outcome will happen given the proximity of similar roads.

And given the characteristics of the BRP with low speed limits and very winding roads, it is neither the shortest distance or fastest route between the ends.

I did that. I created a file called test1.gpx. I created a Mapsource route, loaded into my 1490T. The simulation ran perfectly, announcing the waypoints.
Then I ran the unflag program. It produced a file called
Test1UnFlagged.GPX. I tried to open that file with Mapsource.
Error. "Test1UnFlagged is not a valid Mapsource file and could not be opened."
Any Ideas John?
EDIT: I successfully loaded the file into Mapsource. I created the route OK, but when loaded into the 1490, Jill still speaks the waypoints in the route. I am stumped.

The waypoints are still there and listed in the GPX file as a waypoint. Only the symbol has been removed so you don't see it on the display.

The problem is if you edit the GPX file to change the waypoints, then the unit will recalculate as it sees fit as there is nothing forcing it to go to specific points.

Some clarification, then. I do not insert waypoints into MapSource routes when I am designing custom routes unless it's actually a place where I intend to stop. I let it calculate the route and then use the route tool to draw route sections or the selection tool (arrow) to grab and drag the route to the roads that I want. This works much in the way that you can do this with Google Maps. You will see in MapSource that your actual Waypoints have little flags, but the rest of the route does not. MapSource has accomplished this be inserting map intersection points and map line points instead, which have no flags, just tiny dots. Right-click on these and MapSource still refers to them as Waypoints but now says the type is a Map Intersection for example. But when the route is imported into the Nuvi, the Nuvi interprets them as waypoints anyway and shows flags and announces. Like this very ugly test:
http://cdn-2-service.phanfare.com/images/external/2897704_15...

Each of those flags shows and announces when driving the route. After running the UnFlag utility on the route above, I get this after importing into the Nuvi:
http://cdn-2-service.phanfare.com/images/external/2897704_15...
If you use a regular Waypoint. it stays a waypoint. UnFlag takes those Map Intersection and Map Line points that the Nuvi interprets as Waypoints and converts them to something that the Nuvi will leave alone.

There was a really long thread about this a year or two ago and I can't find it now. But it was along the line of MapSource can create route shaping points when you use the routing tools but the Nuvi interprets these as Waypoints. UnFlag does something to those shaping points so that the Nuvi leaves them alone. I hope this helps.

Summer using Mapsource and a 1490...absolutely impossible to do...the best hope is the waypoint trick but the 1490 saves them as favorites IIRC and it TOTALLY gums up the favorites file with extraneous BS. I finally gave up and just drove to Maine and did my own planning using the GPS in most backroad areas as a tool to get to main roads when I was done wandering. This inability to stay on a created route is a MAJOR flaw in the Garmin brain...here I thought it was me!

I only found this one.
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/24724
I don't want to say "UNCLE" on this.

The Blue Ridge Parkway is a good example of forcing the unit to stay on the desired route without the announcements near every exit.