Map Update (should be cheaper)

 
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Your turn!

Box Car wrote:

Any argument that is put forward would be dismissed by you because you have already made your decision. No amount of logical reasoning would cause you to waiver.

I'll tell you the logical reasoning that one should distinguish. One can deduce from Garmin's update history that each time a map update comes out that most (if not all) additions/changes lag being corrected by multiple years.

Your turn!

--
Politicians and Diapers must be changed often for the exact same reason...

Better than a soap opera

This thread is that. lol

--
John_nuvi_

but...

koot wrote:
dmcfz30.flylow wrote:

If you want the latest maps and your Garmin did not come with Lifetime updates then Garmin says you have to pay.

If you are happy driving into unknown areas with two or three year old data then more power to you.

I did the research so I knew when I bought my Garmin it came with just one free update and if I wanted more Garmin charged for them.

I bought the Lifetime updates last spring, before the price drop, about a year and a half after I bought the Garmin.

If you buy a new GPS every year or two to stay current you are still paying for maps.

Garmin and Navteq are businesses, not charities.

Beg your pardon! You said; "If you are happy driving into unknown areas with two or three year old data then more power to you." TWO or THREE YEAR OLD (or older) map data is exactly what we are getting [even] when people update as soon as they can!

But DMCFZ's data is more current than yours.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

Huh

koot wrote:
dmcfz30.flylow wrote:

If you want the latest maps and your Garmin did not come with Lifetime updates then Garmin says you have to pay.

If you are happy driving into unknown areas with two or three year old data then more power to you.

I did the research so I knew when I bought my Garmin it came with just one free update and if I wanted more Garmin charged for them.

I bought the Lifetime updates last spring, before the price drop, about a year and a half after I bought the Garmin.

If you buy a new GPS every year or two to stay current you are still paying for maps.

Garmin and Navteq are businesses, not charities.

Beg your pardon! You said; "If you are happy driving into unknown areas with two or three year old data then more power to you." TWO or THREE YEAR OLD (or older) map data is exactly what we are getting [even] when people update as soon as they can!

After the new Cabelas opened near me the new roundabout was added to the next update that was released after I bought my Garmin, around a year after construction began. Do the the latest releases have all the latest changes? Of course not! The people who update the maps not magicians.

Pretty much anything we buy is outdated before it hits the store shelves as newer versions are always in the works.

I will attempt to clarify my statement:

If you are happy driving into unknown areas WITHOUT THE LATEST AVAILABLE data then more power to you.

Is that better?

major state highways and INTERSTATE not being updated for years

Map corrections/changes/additions often lag by YEARS. I can live with a new Cabelas roundabout not being cut-in to a map update for 9-12 months. But I talking about changes to major state highways and INTERSTATE not being updated for years after work is completed.

--
Politicians and Diapers must be changed often for the exact same reason...

Better Than A Soap Opera

agg9900 wrote:

This thread is that. lol

Ditto

Then don't buy updates.

I personally find the information much more reliable than what the guy in the convenience store can give me or the directions from Aunt Sally.

IMHO a GPS is just a tool, and just like a printed map it is never going to be perfect. I'd still rather have the latest available data than not.

well...

Box Car wrote:
vk55 wrote:
ka1167 wrote:
vk55 wrote:

In conclusion, here is a simple question for you: what's better, smaller profit from each copy sold to many customers, or trying to get big profit from each piece sold and only a few, or no customers...enjoy...and think about it!

Neither of the above.

The best result for a business is to "hook" customers with an offer too good to pass up and then, when you have your captive audience, milk them continuously for as much money as you can.

Witness......printer ink cartridges and things like cell phone monthly service charges, cable TV, Satelite radio, etc.

I'm surprised that the GPS industry didn't start out with monthly subscription fees for the map software.

Yes! That's fact... but again...strategy based on attracting as many customers as possible, but in case of Garmin's strategy: quality of their latest GPS models keeps lagging, it's about a time to change that tendency, if it's not too late already...and on top of that...the map updates are greatly overpriced.
Lifetime map updates from Garmin are $119.99 now on sale for $89.99 versus $ 69.97 from a different retailer...(the same product who's supplier is Navteq).
I just would like Flaco and Stephon to come up with a "mathematical" formula which could justify this "Good deal" and "great" strategy from Garmin...

Any argument that is put forward would be dismissed by you because you have already made your decision. No amount of logical reasoning would cause you to waiver.

Well...facts are facts if you like it or not...

--
vk

still cost effective

compared with my lexus nav system map upgrade, the Garmin life time map update charge is nothing.

Map Update (should be cheaper)

Map update price vary from place to place in some places ther are selling for over $100 in some under $100.

Thanks Mkahn. Your post is

Thanks Mkahn. Your post is interesting and potentially very useful. I will look to see if they've fixed a friends house location that caused me problems recently.

If our argumentative friend wants to, he can also check his area and known issues to see if his conclusion is supported or not.

With respect to the price, I think it is normal for manufacturers to price the "extras" with a lot higher margin than the product they have competition for. You can dislike this but the number of times and circumstances it happens suggest it will probably keep happening. This is admittedly flawed logic but BMW charges $2100 for a GPS in their cars and $200 for a map upgrade. So Garmin is at least a lot cheaper than that. But that is flawed logic. I decided $2100 was too much and bought a braket for my Garmin from BMW and mounted it semi-permanently for about $300 (including the 885t). But it doesn't look as nice and doesn't do everything the iDrive does either.

The useful way to express yourself on this is to either buy or not buy. I think the upgrades are probably not too bad a deal for me but my 885t is less than a year old so I am holding off. If they fixed my friends location, I might go ahead and buy.

It's nice when we get great deals (I think my 885t for ~215 was a great deal). Lifetime maps for $70-90 is not nearly as good a deal. Amazon selling for less than Garmin doesn't bother me either. I see that a lot too. I will buy when my perception of the value is greater or at least equal to the price. Our equations are different but they seek to reconcile the same price/value point.

Jim

.

koot wrote:

Map corrections/changes/additions often lag by YEARS. I can live with a new Cabelas roundabout not being cut-in to a map update for 9-12 months. But I talking about changes to major state highways and INTERSTATE not being updated for years after work is completed.

2011.10 and 2011.20 incorporated the changes to the I-195 interchange in Providence, and that work was essentially finished earlier this year. At the same time I notified Navteq of a change in a local road due to bridge construction nearby and it hasn't changed yet on the maps. I don't expect that one to change until the bridge is opened in 2012.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Well, with the way the

Well, with the way the download's going......

Doesn't help much if the darn thing doesn't download!!!

My conversation with Garmin Support today was less than awe inspiring....

Nothing like being told to disable your screensavers and change power settings to ALL OFF ....... to give you confidence!!!

Garmin is instructing they support staff to indicate that download could take 8-10 hours!!! That's what they told me!!

I'm getting less than 100kbps, on a 21Mb/sec connection!

--
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!

Smart phones

I am with the people that have said if garmin does not get their crap together they will be missing a large portion of there buyers. Smart phones are all but taking over everything. (GPS, Music Player, Movie player, Computer) I have a Droid X and there is really nothing I couldn't do on it. Don't get me wrong I will never part with my computer but I will not be buying any map updates for my GPS.

Servers

Overloaded servers are a pain, only took about a half hour for me on day one.

For those who do not need the update ASAP it might make sense to wait a few days before updating...

Smartphones will undoubtedly

Smartphones will undoubtedly reduce GPS suppliers sales. It won't affect my purchases in the foreseeable future, however. The screen on my blackberry - or your Droid or iPhone - is too small to look at while driving down the road. It is also not well positioned. I have a nuvi in both my vehicles (760 in SUV, 885t in bimmer) which I use for MP3 playback, bluetooth, and occasionally GPS. I know a phone can do these things but I think the nuvi does them enough better for this to make sense, for me. I tie the sound output of the nuvi to the car through the headphone jack. That way I can play music and the GPS will switch the sound to navigation instructions or a phone call automatically. I also have a screen big enough to see just to the right of my instruments in the car and I can use that screen to dial my phone or pick my music. I do not need to touch the screen in the bimmer, I can use voice commands.

I don't want to carry something with a bigger screen on my belt or in my pocket. I like having that in my car ready to go when I get there.

You can save money doing GPS on your phone but you don't get the same functionality. Depends on what you are willing to pay for.

Jim

monthly subscription fees

ka1167 wrote:

I'm surprised that the GPS industry didn't start out with monthly subscription fees for the map software.

Well, they were not updating the maps monthly (Garmin still is not), so a monthly charge for something that people only got yearly would be a pretty hard sell. Instead they just charged twelve times as much and sold a yearly update. More profitable for Garmin that way, since even if the GPS dies or the owner dies they already have the money.

But by charging so much for an update they found that some people figured out it was better to just buy a new GPS than buy a data update for nearly as much. That way they got a new GPS, a new battery, a new start on a one year warranty, the same new map, and they even got to keep the old GPS as a backup or something they could pass down to family or friends.

So the response to this is the current system. They sell a "lifetime" map update, although they retain the right to tell you when the lifetime is over. They don't charge a monthly subscription (the overhead of which would only drive the price even higher and cause too many complaints that the updates were not monthly), but much of America is living on credit card debt and so is effectively paying a monthly subscription price anyway, with the credit card company financing the purchase and then getting their money, with interest, monthly.

Most people don't really need or want quarterly updates, and I expect that many who subscribe don't even bother to download every available update, just like many of us here don't update our traffic camera POI file every single week. And from what I've seen in these forums the more frequent updates may not be tested as completely and may be leading to additional problems.

If I could buy an update at the price of Delorme map software then I might update my GPS once or twice over its life. Since I can't I'll hold off and, if I feel I have a need or desire, buy a new GPS. It might be a Garmin again, but it might not. If I buy another Garmin I'll first find a model that I like (the wifi feature really interests me), then I'll see if I can find that model available with an included lifetime subscription. From what I've seen that subscription is sometimes sold at less than a $50 premium over the base price of the same GPS. At that price I might go for it, anything higher and I'll pass, and maybe pass on the entire purchase as well.

no my problem man

vk55 wrote:

I just would like Flaco and Stephon to come up with a "mathematical" formula which could justify this "Good deal" and "great" strategy from Garmin...

NO, NO, NO, I ain’t doing it, I said everything I wanted to say on this subject and now you want me to jump back in to save you from looking like an argumentative fool, you dug this hole, now get yourself out.

--
Garmin 38 - Magellan Gold - Garmin Yellow eTrex - Nuvi 260 - Nuvi 2460LMT - Google Nexus 7 - Toyota Entune NAV

@Flaco

Flaco, this guy is the second person I've met on this forum in the past three weeks who has an apparent inability to answer simple questions. First I have some guy refuse to answer a yes or no question about red light camera tickets. Now there's this guy who can't even tell us why he thinks your math is crazy and instead of answering the question asked him by me declares I haven't read the thread.

How can I take someone like that seriously? Better yet, why should I take someone like that seriously? Right now I'm waiting for vk55 to make a comment about how I should be friendly, like the first person who was unable to answer the yes or no question.

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams

Check Amazon

I am getting my wife the lifetime Nuvi update on Amazon for xmas it is currently 68.99 for the lifetime updates, which allows for 4 updates per year for the life of the device that it is purchased for. Same part number as the 89.99 on the Garmin site itself.

useful to one, useful to all?

mkahn wrote:

Garmin provides an interactive map where you can check any section to see if the changes you are looking for are made. This is available before purchase. See: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=253&pID=1456#coverag... which is located in the description for the mapset. Granted, Garmin could make this easier to get to, but it is available.

But some of the reasons people want a new update isn't just for the roads.

It's for the lane assist and other extras. Problem there, quite a few garmins can't use those extras.

So what's useful to one user may never be seen by the majority of others.

Map updates, as far as I know, are not tied to the TYPE of garmin, but rather to the location of the user.

life time vs. one time update

if my calculation is correct, lifetime map update is better deal then one-time only map update.

one-time update is cheaper then Lexus/BMW nav system DVD map update.

People select what best fit their needs. I feel good when I do not need to pay monthly charge for FREE GPS satellite signal.

life time vs. one time update

Most people (IMO) buy a GPS for the novelty. They (at the time) can't see a need for "lifetime" updates.

At least when they find it's the lifetime of the unit.

As their understanding and familiarity with a GPS grows, they're liable to spend money on an upgraded SYSTEM rather than an upgraded map.

They know that they're going to get the latest map anyway.

The average user is drawn by initial cost, not future expense.

My 1200 is a great entry level device, but the next "upgrade" will allow me to fully use the route-creating capabilities of MapSource.

So do I want to put out the 60-80 dollars for a one-time map, or get a free map with the next system?

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