Did anyone ever test a camera

I can't swear to it, but I'm pretty sure that's roughly how our local (Mont. Co., MD) are set, but I have continued through after seeing some of ours just turn yellow as or shortly before I was entering, without tickets.

But I think you'll find that it varies according to local & state law. It's been discussed here in various threads but this might be a good place to summarize them with those that know for sure in their area. I understand (I think) that Oregon (or is it Washington state?), Vermont, and N.Y.C. might require a stop on yellow but I haven't seen their camera timing info or looked at their MVA regs to know for sure.

The other 'sleeper' twist is right turns on red, and when the camera starts 'looking' to see if you've come to a complete stop (and exactly where) before proceeding.

I had to look at a camera at an unusual intersection to report it to Miss POI. I was driving slowly, about 30, the speed limit, when sure enough the light turned yellow just before I went into the intersection and I kept going. It was a good thing I did because the car behind was only about 6 feet from my back bumper and the driver had an enraged look on his face! The camera lights flashed, but I never received a ticket, so I think the guy behind me did. In NYC and NY State you can proceed on yellow. It becomes a violation if the light turns red before the front of your car passes the stopline. This was a good call by whoever writes the tickets. These are actually video cameras, even though they mail you a still frame with a picture of the red light and your car in the intersection with the license plate. The risks I take for Miss POI!

dobs108 - Nassau County New York

First of all it would depend on how your state vehicle law reads.

My experience is with Kalif state vehicle code and I retired 15 years ago, so things may have changed.

The vehicle code states that once you are lawfully in the intersection (and you have to know the lawful definition of an intersection) you can proceed when safe to do so. So if you intersection, say to make a left turn, and you remained there until the light turned red, and then completed the left turn. I would expect to see a tort ticket show up at the mail box.

The camera doesn't know the vehicle code. It just clicks a picture, and sends the tort ticket in the mail, with out reference to you being lawfully in the intersection in the first place.

Go ahead and test the camera, you will buy more headaches than you know what to do with.

My experience in the MD/DC area is that if you enter the intersection when the light is yellow then you won't get a ticket.

You gotta be kidding me... I ain't gonna risk a ticket just for that. Who would!?

I think it would be a much wiser and CHEAPER option to monitor the traffic light to determine the length of the yellow. You can measure the length of time the light is yellow standing on the sidewalk (with a witness) - then challenge if your measurement is too short.

Your way sounds too much like Russian Roulette, with much worse odds.

Why don't you try out your theory a dozen times or so and report back.

In Illinois there's some debate by the lawmakers about how to more clearly define where to stop for right turns on red and what constitutes a full stop.

That right turn on red after stop measures your speed as you approach the crosswalk. $75.00 Ticket. It didn't matter that I stopped in back of the car in front of me. The one car distance I rolled "11mph" so I could look both ways was on the ticket. They also made the crosswalk wider and make sure you stop before your tire touches that extra stripe before the crosswalk. Bloodsuckers !

I drive a car dealership shuttle and one of my customers had told me that there are sensors, at the Stop Line, that only activate when the light turns red. As a result if you have passed the Stop Line just as the light turns red, you will not get a ticket.

He also understood that, there are speed monitors, and if you are decelerating, when you hit the Stop Line, you will not get a ticket. However, if you're accelerating, it's obvious that you're running the yellow, then you will get a ticket.

RLCs are also directional. They do not necessarily cover all four sides of an intersection. They can't read the license of a car that's perpendicular to the camera and if there is no front plate, they can't get a picture if it's heading towards the camera. In some cases, they may have four cameras and I don't know what the practise is in the US,. but at least in Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada, there is only one camera.

Do we have someone out there that works with expert technical knowledge?

I was told by an officer that the Texas law is if your car's front tire passes the line before the light turns red it is ok. The yellow is just the warning that the light will turn red.

EDIT: Found this for TEXAS:
§ 544.007. TRAFFIC-CONTROL SIGNALS IN GENERAL.

(d) An operator of a vehicle facing only a steady red signal shall stop at a clearly marked stop line. In the absence of a stop line, the operator shall stop before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection. A vehicle that is not turning shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown. After stopping, standing until the intersection may be entered safely, and yielding right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully in an adjacent crosswalk and other traffic lawfully using the intersection, the operator may:

(1) turn right; or
(2) turn left, if the intersecting streets are both one-way streets and a left turn is permissible.

(e) An operator of a vehicle facing a steady yellow signal is warned by that signal that:

(1) movement authorized by a green signal is being terminated; or
(2) a red signal is to be given.

While I can understand your frustration, a legal right turn on a red light requires you to STOP at the light. What you performed is a roll stop, which is illegal pretty well everywhere - whether caught on camera or observed by a traffic cop.

Come on tell me the folks of Illinois are smarter than that. I know these great people aren't sheep.

where to stop for right turns on red? How about either before entering the intersection or before a stop sign.

What constitutes a full stop? Tires Stop rolling, that's a full stop

Your state clearly defines where and what an intersection is, in the laws. Also defined is where to stop (generally a limit line, but also can be at the limit of the intersection (as defined by statute).

There is no guess work, these things are defined by law.

Also there is no magnetic sensors under the pavement to determine when you enter the intersection. The only sensors that are in the pavement are for signal light control during non-high traffic times. It interrupts the signal cycle if only one car is at the intersection at 2 am.

You test it and give us the results!!! I have seen the cameras flash when someone does not come to a complete stop on red.

I like this statement. You would think everyone would know this!!!

I've gone through them on yellow many times, with no problem. I've even started through them on yellow and have them change to red before I get fully under the light and have not received a citation. Yesterday, I swapped from the turn lane to a through lane and went through one on red. I didn't see a flash from the camera, but I'm fully expecting to receive something in the mail within a week.

Several years ago, I went through what I perceived to be a yellow and the red light cameras went off. (I say perceived, because things are not always what you may believe). I didn't realize there was a red light camera at that intersection. I never received a ticket for that. I believe they still review the data before sending out the ticket. Also, each state has their own regulations regarding red light camera tickets.

Here is hoping that the postman does not arrive!

"allsub wrote:
In Illinois there's some debate by the lawmakers about how to more clearly define where to stop for right turns on red and what constitutes a full stop.

BobDee wrote:
Come on tell me the folks of Illinois are smarter than that. I know these great people aren't sheep.

where to stop for right turns on red? How about either before entering the intersection or before a stop sign.

What constitutes a full stop? Tires Stop rolling, that's a full stop"

*edit* (I thought I quoted BobDee and allsub)

I know what they mean. Where the white lines are painted, and where we're supposed to stop, does not leave us in a good position to see if traffic is coming. Some people stop beyond the white line. Technically, that is a violation, and we could be ticketed. The lawmakers are trying to say that stopping beyond the white line is not worth a $100 ticket, as long as they do come to a complete stop before making the right turn on red.

yellow lights don't flash the camera here in nyc. as long as you pass the crosswalk before it turns red, you're good it seems

I drove an emergency vehicle for many years. I retired six years ago, but they did have red light cameras during my last couple of years of service.

In that time I've sailed through many red light cameras when the light yellow and when it was full red. Our cameras don't arm until the light is fully red and I've never had one flash when entering on a yellow.

Out of interest, when the city reviewed the ticket images, they would compare the time stamped on the image against the computer logs of our activity. If we weren't going to an emergency when we tripped the camera, the police would issue a ticket.