Direct competition... Will the evolution of smartphones see off sat-navs?

Much cheaper if you need both cell + nav. Much better battery life. Much more portable. Much better screen and UI. I haven't see the apps but I expect that to improve over time. Only thing missing is a decent mount for the car but that should be already available or not too far away.

I think Tom Tom's car mount for the iPhone/iTouch is pretty good actually.

http://www.youtube.com/v/Nn0lJFHXMB4

That's a phone with GPS glued on the side.

As you might guess, I want (and use) dedicated devices that do their respective jobs well. The phone makes phone calls. It doesn't have a camera, bottle opener, or altimeter.

While the GPS has a bunch of bells and whistles, I use very few bells, and only one or two of the whistles.

Yes, as in many areas of technology, we will eventually see well integrated products. I expect location technology, and augmentation based on location, to be ubiquitous. We're still in the pretty primitive phase right now. The iPhone is getting there, and I expect Google to do well. But even three or four product generations from now, I expect the products (user interfaces, and applications) to be far more refined.

The other aspect of vehicle nav is that to do it really well, you need inputs from the vehicle -- the systems that integrate sensed vehicle speed and direction are much better at dealing with the issues of urban canyons, tunnels and the like, but we know that they are in general a pain (or impossible) to customize - personalize - update; how easy it it to add an In-N-Out Burger POI to your Mercedes nav system?

The alternative to vehicle inputs is to build the intertial platform into the nav system -- accelerometers, gyros, and the like. We've already got accelerometers in phones, so in that sense the existing removable nav systems (such as Nuvi) are behind the curve.

That's pretty impressive. I'm not an iphone user but if I was I definitely would consider one of those mounts. Turn by turn nav with hands free calling and music through your stereo? Sounds like a good deal to me. Plus the option of having all your contacts built right in seems pretty convenient.

Where I use my GPS there is no cell phone coverage, so I don't take my phone.

The marriage of cell phone and GPS may work for city folk, but here in Idaho you get away from highways and cell phones are as useful as rocks.

So from my perspective the answer is no.

The TomTom app for the iPhone has the maps installed to the phone, so it does not need a cell connection to work. That's a BIG difference over most of the other iPhone GPS apps. It even works with the iPod Touch, which does not have any cell data capability at all.

So you get full GPS functionality even in the boonies, same as any dedicated GPS. Plus if there is a cell signal, it will use cell tower triangulation to augment the GPS. It would be interesting to see how much this helps in the downtown of a big city, where a regular GPS is almost useless.

I read through the manual, and it's VERY impressive. The TomTom iPhone app has more features than either my Nuvi 350 or 760, minus the 'saved routes' feature of the 760.

One thing that is unclear from the manual is if it allows adding custom POI's. The manual mentions that it supports Safety Camera Alerts and mentions a Safety Alert Service.

$50 for the app and $100 for the iPod car kit or $120 for the iPhone car kit with an actual automotive GPS chip in it.

Take a gander: http://tinyurl.com/la2fgj

I sort of have one foot in each camp on this issue. On the one hand, I am in the car for work all day. I clearly want separate cell phone and GPS for work. On the other hand, there are times when I like the electronic "Swiss Army Knife." For example, if I am traveling and I want to reduce the number of devices, I think something like a Garmin Nuvifone would be handy for telephone calls and navigating. Or a BlackBerry that also has entertainment applications may be better than separate telephone and MP3 player.

My wife has an 8-megapixel Samsung Memoir phone on T-Mobile. It takes very nice photographs. We still have a stand alone camera, but it is actually less than 8-megapixels.

I think the tool analogy is a very good one. In my case specifically, I do have a Leatherman multi-tool and I would like to have a Gerber multi-tool. I haven't discarded the other tools in my garage, however.

I have seen some other multiple purpose devices. Some have some good functionality and others, not so much. I have seen combination AM/FM radio, flashlight, etc. devices. Usually those are not very good flashlights and not very good radios, either.

One of my hobbies is amateur radio. I also use two-way radio for work and own scanners. Over the years we have had amateur radios that would monitor beyond the amateur bands. Usually the scanners did a better job scanning than the ham radios, but I am still glad that they tuned out of band. I have had Motorola two way radios, but they won't do some of the things that amateur radios and scanners will do.

Other pairings would almost seem odd if they were split up. It is rare nowadays to see a consumer radio receiver that doesn't have both AM and FM broadcast bands. On the other hand, with amateur radios, we often have transceivers that are multiple mode and multiple band, but we also have some separation. (Can you imagine going to Best Buy today and trying to buy an AM only radio receiver. I really doubt that they have any. I really think that they are almost all AM and FM.)

A couple more hobbies of mine are horseback riding and ATV riding. I enjoy both, but neither necessarily replaces the other.

Many people ride bicycles, but still own automobiles.

I guess this has gotten a little bit more lengthy than I intended, but the bottom line, at least from my perspective, if that many things in life aren't an "either-or" choice.

The major problem with having a "multi-function" whatever is, part of the system is also dependent on part of the rest of the system.

As a example.. you can buy a printer/scanner/copier/fax that does it all.. but what happens when one of the functions goes bad and fails?

You send or take it some place to get it repaired.. which now leaves you without the ability to use any of the other functions.

Me? All of my electronic gadgets are single function per say. Oh.. my cell phone phones, takes pictures, plays music, can internet, e-mail, text, etc., but what do I use it for?

A PHONE!!

If I want to take pictures.. I use a regular camera. If I want to internet or e-mail.. I use a computer. If I want to hear music.. I use a radio.

The point is.. if one of them breaks on me, I don't have to go without all the others.

Just my thoughts. You may get more or less mileage out of it.

Nuvi1300WTGPS

Nuvi1300WTGPS@Gmail.com

There is a problem with any multi-function device. The more functions it has, the more likely one will become obsolete forcing you to buy yet another all in one.

Apple is a prime example. Except for those who only truly use their iPhone for just calls, how many people are still using 8GB versions without GSM?

My first cell phone with a camera had a 1.3mp resolution. My current has a 5mp camera. If you use your phone for pictures, then you have to buy a complete new phone as opposed to just getting a sub-$100 5, 8, or even 10mp camera.

GPS technology is marching forward too as they become more common. Will a smart phone or an iPhone a year or two from now have a much more enhanced GPS capability; especially for adding POI's, better graphics and better performance?

We all rely on our GPS units or we wouldn't be on this forum. A multi-function unit of any kind is a great and convenient way to have a lot of average performing functions in one box. If you rely on a particular function often, you are going to want the best performance and features you can with a unit dedicated to that function.

Other than mail, I don't surf the web on my phone. I do use it often as a wireless hotspot...for my netbook.

I not only read through the TomTom app manual, I read the reviews. One consistency that came through was that the GPS app closes when a phone call comes through and the GPS app has to be manually restarted after the phone call is ended. If you get a fair number of phone calls, that could be a deal breaker. One of the things that the iPhone does very poorly is multitask.

What this particular package did was address the two biggest detriments to cell phone GPS vs a dedicated unit:

Obvious downsides:

I have Google and Blackberry maps with GPS support in my Blackberry. They are a joke compared to my Nuvi. I think if I had an iPhone, I'd spend $50 for the app just to have real turn-by-turn GPS functionality with me for all those times I might not have my Nuvi with me. But I would continue to rely on a dedicated GPS for most of my travel.

Not if you jailbreak it.

http://tinyurl.com/yl2u63r

That's exactly what the marketing departments want us to do. This way we won't have devices that are ancient (more than 2 years old). We can upgrade every year. Two if you're budget is tighter. Then we'll all have the best they have to offer.
OK. Sometimes the last one was better, but we should all switch to the new one and there won't be any side-by-side comparisons to make your friends feel cheated.

A big downside of all-in-one devices rather than dedicated devices is the increased likelihood of breaking. When you leave a gps navigator in your car, it gets little use and stays in better condition than cellphones subjected to pockets, purses, nearly constant use, etc. Having redundancy with a smartphone can be a good thing, less chance of being stranded somewhere without directions, etc.

Who knows where technology will take us? If anyone actually does, they could make a killing on the stock market. For me, in the foreseeable future, separate cell phone and GPS is the way to go. Both are changing capability on a weekly basis. The cost of upgrading both when the extra features of only one are desired can get very expensive. Besides, my wife sometimes takes the cell phone when I want the GPS!

Then again, what if you can only afford one device? That is where the convergence is nice.

For as long as I have been involved with technology in my job, I have yet to see an "all in one" device be able to completely replace all of the devices it was intended to replace. Compromises will always have to be made.

A lot of the drawbacks of combo devices have already been mentioned. Another one is in order to get the convenience of "all in one", you always have to pay for features you don't want or need. Features that can and usually do factor into those compromises.

Remember when you carried a PDA & a Cellphone, can you even buy a stand alone PDA now? Six years ago when phones started trying to be media players too they were terrible and inconvienent, today my iPhone is as good if not better than any stand alone media player. I recently read (cannot find the article now) that point & shoot camera sales had gone way down. Partly b/c of the economy but also b/c the cameras in cellphones have improved and the convience of having with you all the time. No more "Wish I had a camera" occasions.
It only goes to figure GPS will follow suit and Garmin is behind the curve. They wasted 2 yrs on the disasterous Nuviphone, letting Tom Tom et al get a jump on them. GPS is also running into a lack of new technology, what is the selling point on the top of the line 16xx series? It is not improved GPS performance, it is connectivity, something cellphones are already very good at. Already my phone is better than a GPSr in a few respects; 1) It connects directly to my car stereo, no trying to find an open freq. then moving it around due to a weak transmitter, 2) All the new connectivity features on the 1xxx series are, and have been available at the touch of a finger on my phone for sometime.
In the near future all GPS makers will shift from a hardware to a software business plan. It may take a while but eventually you will only be able to get a stand alone GPSr for very specialized uses and the general consumer market will be all cellphone based. Those of you rolling your eyes think about the 8 track, cassette player, VCR, or Laser Disc and how those were the epitome of tech in their day. Even the CD is on it's way out and I for one am skipping the Blu-Ray change b/c digital delivery of media will make it obsolete in a short time. Nothing last forever and eventually even the cellphone will become a quaint memory of the past too.

The camera in my cell phone is very inferior to my stand alone camera. The problem now isn't the number of megapixels but in the size/quality of the lens. No one I know carries a separate PDA's but they do carry Franklin Planners.

I also believe that a phone is a phone, and a GPS is a GPS. Instead of working on all of this intergration perhaps they can fix the phones from dropping calls.

The phone does not drop calls the carrier does

I have. I have had the occasional crash with multiple apps running, but it's reasonably stable. Not quite prime-time yet, though.

Smooth multitasking and how multiple apps interact will be critical issues on the all-in-one devices. When I play MP3's with the Nuvi, it automatically pauses the music when it's time for guidance instructions and then picks up the music or podcast where it left off after the turn instructions. If I'm using the Nuvi as a hands-free solution the "Answer phone yes/no?" screen prompt overlay disappears right away and returns to the map and routing if I get and answer a call. How will two separate apps from different manufacturers know to interact that graciously together?

I have a GPS, a Zumo550. I use it as a GPS and MP3 player on the motorcycle. I also use it in the car when I am going to somewhere I haven't been before. Other than that, it sits on the counter in my house gathering dust. I don't want to leave it in the truck because of concerns of it getting stolen, or damaged. But my phone I carry all the time. I have Garmin Mobile XT on my phone and it works good. I use it in a pinch. It's nice to have it for those, "dang, I would love to get that while it's on sale, but I don't know how to get to that store" periods in our lives. But I am not going to depend on it when I leave for a trip. I always bring the GPS and paper maps with me. Because I have seen over and over again how non-reliable a GPS can be.

I posted on this subject a couple of nights ago but it never made it in here for some reason, so here goes again...

There will always be advantages and disadvantages to both. While a smartphone probably won't work as well as a GPS for GPS-centric functions for the most part, there are other related things that it will do better. Consider a popular smartphone app that lets you log speed traps and other hazards. Basically you hit a button on the phone and it sends the location to everyone else in the area, letting them know there's an active speed trap there. This type of real-time update is much better for "cop-in-the-car" and mobile speed trap alerts than a static POI file, but I'd still rather have a static Poi-Factory file for everything else.

Just in case anyone accuses me of being a new-technology fanboy, I should also mention that I have an old Palm Tungsten T3 and still love it. Also, while I'm writing this post on a laptop that runs Ubuntu Linux, my main PC runs Windows 2000. I'll upgrade eventually. 8)

- Phil

Gotta love that satellite and street view!
Those who want to see a screen full of POI's as they drive should like the 'layers' options.

http://www.google.com/phone

Now let's see if the reality lives up to the hype.

I wouldn't use my cell phone's GPS ability simply because the extra cost to use it would pay for a brand new GPS unit in less than one year. Plus GPS device's have bigger screens, and easier to use.

My son just bought the new Droid - it's fantastic!
No typing just speak the place you want to go to & it directs you BETTER than the GPS unit. (A Nuvi)
You listen as it guides you with street names etc.
It's mounted on his dash & he never has to look at it, just listen & drive.

My Droid is fast...and with Cell and GPS..and internet. There are very few things I really need my Nuvi for. The best part is the Google maps update FREE all the time. I have had my Droid since Thanksgiving, and it is still amazing. They have updated the firmware once and are going to do it again. The number of apps out there already is huge..I can;t believe I have been playing with the Droid and reading the Droid forum so much I lost my Windmill...I will work to get it back...

Being an early adopter I was considering trading my iPhone for a Droid or Nexus One but after seeing these Comparisons I think I will stick with my iPhone. One of the more interesting points I saw was in one comparison they pointed out Apples long approval process of new apps as a minus but in the the other they say that not only does iPhone have more apps but they are better. Personally I would rather have quality.

Google Phone Vs. iPhone: 7 Things Nexus One Has The iPhone Doesn't
http://tinyurl.com/yddkw29

iPhone Vs. Google Phone: 7 Things The iPhone Has The Nexus One Doesn't
http://tinyurl.com/yfd3e3l

Not with my eyesight, no.

And if the screen is large enough for me to see, then it's too big as a phone that I'd want to carry in my shirt pocket. I didn't get a smartphone for the same reason, until BlackBerry became small enough.

I'm more likely to replace a stand-alone GPS unit with one built into a car than with a GPS-enabled smart phone. Just as I replaced a stand-alone MP3 player with the one built into my car, and NOT with an all-in-one device.