Airplane use

I recently took a flight on Delta from Palm Springs to Salt Lake on a regional jet. Even though Delta does allow GPS use on flights I did ask the flight attendant and there was no problem.
I was amazed to see so many airstrips are out in the desert. A few had AAF after their namees, probably old Army Air Force bases in WWII, etc.
My wife got a kick out of watching the small towns and cities that we passed over. It helped to pass the time.
JeffSh

hi , i turned my nuvi 770 on while on a flight to Arizona 2weeks ago, can't remeber all the details but it was showing elevations and some ground info but i think the but i think the elevations were showing the plane as being lower than it was, i only had the unit on for a short time, as the battery was low,no one said i could not use it on the plane , this was on a continental flight from buffalo to Phoenix . will be flying to florida in 2 weeks and using a nuvi 765t so i will take a longer look and see what comes up regards hil2

I think I heard on my United Express flight on Saturday that Blackberry's and GPS units are not allowed. No problem on United.

By the way, I was a little disappointed because it seems like a lot of towns aren't listed when just viewing or browsing a map on my C580. I tried changing the "map detail" setting which had 5 or more levels between "least" and "most" but this didn't seem to help much either. Many more cities were listed by selecting "cities" POI or "lodging" POI.

Tim

Will be trying out my C330 on a flight to asia tomorrow.

The AAF stands for Auxiliary Air Field. Typically a small U.S. Air Force base in the middle of nowhere. I was stationed at Grand Bahama Auxiliary Air Field until it closed in 1986-7, after the Challenger disaster.

I have done this on the past 3 roundtrips. On my Garmin and I can see the direction and speed screen as well a the trip function on it. The max speed I have achieved is 580 MPH. If you are on the map screen then you must zoom out a bit otherwise all you see is land the entire time due to the speed of the plane. I have one stewardess tell me I had to turn it off on a Continental flight. I quickly showed her that GPS units are on the FAA approved electronics list that was printed in the Continental magazine in the seat backs. She read the list and said, "I didn't know that and apologized for her error."

The kids really liked seeing how fast they were actually going and how stuff zoomed along on the map screen.

I use my GPSMAP76CS whenever GPS is allowed. I set the routing for off-road and the destination as the arriving airport. It will show speed, altitude and ETA. In the map mode it will show rivers, highways and nearby cities along with state boundaries. The tricky part is that cities and landmarks that are right under your window are actually some distance away horizontally due to angles and height of the aircraft (gotta love that trigonometry).

I used same off-road setting and bring it to train. It did show the "vehicle", in this case, a train, go along the railroad precisely. It would have been a major accident if not.

I flew to Vancouver bc the other weekend with Air Canada,I did not ask to use my Gps i just did. One attendent asked Where it showed we were.No problems whatsoever with any attendents. I did find that the three different aircraft I was on lifted off the Tarmac at 252-255 kms per hour,Maximun speed was 883 kms per hour! Headin home for the xmas holidays soon will take Gps again,It is neat to watch.

My understanding is that electronic devices are ok after taking off and at cruising altitude (on most airlines), but are definitely not ok on takeoff or landing. If even there is a 0.00001% chance they would interfere with the electronics of the airplane, it's not a risk that anyone should undertake.

census1940

The real problem with electronics in airplanes is not the portable device, but the radios and other electronics in the planes themselves. In a commercial airliner, the equipment has to be built to the lowest standard in order to be certain it will work wherever it goes. Some countries where these planes fly and are based from are 20 or more years behind in their use of electronics. With the poor quality of signals from the ground and the wide tolerances required in the modern planes, the radios and ground navigation equipment can be affected. Even in the US, the electronics used by the FAA to communicate with and guide aircraft is horribly out-of-date. Air-to-ground communications haven't changed in the past 50 or more years, and in fact war surplus equipment from WWII and Korea is still in use today. The last major change internationally was to use FM rather than AM and VHF and UHF frequencies rather than the HF frequencies used in the 1930s.

I had a problem while flying on Delta a short while ago when another passenger quite rudely informed me that I had to “turn that thing off”. I explained that it was a passive receiver and that I have used it many times before had had no trouble. He actually got up and complained to flight attendant that then told me that Mobile Phone Devices could not be used. I tried to explain that it was a GPS receiver but was forcefully told to turn it off, much to the enjoyment of my fellow traveler. I wrote to Delta customer service and received the following reply:

Global Positioning System (GPS) devices and Cell phones may only be operated on board a Delta aircraft while the plane is parked at the gate with the boarding door open, upon reaching cruising altitude, and during taxi back to the gate after landing. The unit must be turned off prior to initial descent. Use of these devices away from the gate during extended ground times will be at the captain?s discretion only.

Our flight attendants are expected to always be responsive and offer accurate, thorough information and assistance. Our goal is to make sure your flight is enjoyable, and training is provided to our employees to ensure a consistent and pleasant travel experience. It sounds like that didn?t happen in this case, and we will continue to make efforts to improve in this area.

We also appreciate your suggestion. Your correspondence has been forwarded to the appropriate department. If we need any more information, we will be back in touch.

Again, thank you for writing. We appreciate your selection of Delta and will always welcome the opportunity to be of service.

Sincerely,

Nicole P. Naigem
Manager
Customer Care

On my last Business trip I got my garmin nuvi 200 up to 590MPH, we were flying in a Cessna Citation at about 41,000 feet. It was pretty awesome, if you zoom way in on the street level it pretty much flys by however if you zoom out it lets you track were you are. I spoke with out Pilots and asked them if it was ok to use GPS and they say of course it does not affect any of there instruments. I cant Speak for any commercial airlines but why not.

Interesting, Delta is on this list of airlines that allow GPS.

http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/airgps.htm

.

i recently took garmin 760 and it showed me 596m/h and cutting across the streets and highways if you zoom out a bit and see, it is pretty awesome experience, although it took some time to get the gps signals, its pretty cool.

I work for the FAA and the above quote is true. Take Offs/Landings are when the aircraft Avionics are in heavy use locating VOR's, other aircraft, weather, etc. Use at altitude should not be a problem but...you should check with the crew. (My 750 has problems finding ANYTHING when I am inside a house. Unless I am sitting out on the wing, I may have the same problem in an aircraft)!!!

As I recall, Southwest specifically lists GPSs as acceptable electonic devices. I flew on Northwest and United this week. Neither explicitly list is as an unacceptable electronic device.

I got mine up to 563 mph. I'm a geography junkie and liked watching my location on the map.

You obviously have to hate that your fellow passenger got his way. (I would too!) However, regardless what the list of approved or not approved devices is, you are required to comply with all flight attendant requests or you can be arrested.

Hi Everyone,

Makes no difference what you may have read (in regards to airlines that have approved the use of GPS devices) or have been told by others. The use of GPS units on-board any aircraft is at the discretion of the flight crew.

There will be and have been times where you will find discrepancies between what is approved for use on-board an aircraft, and a flight crew that disallows the use of a particular electronic device.

Mike

Hi,

In regards to aircraft avionics, these devices are in constant use throughout a flight. They are not under a heavier load during takeoffs and landings.

What is true about takeoffs and landings: The pilots are busier during these phases of flight, but the avionics are under no additional/heavy load. Most major airports operate utilizing SID's and STAR's.

====================
For those interested
====================

SID's = Standard Instrument Departures

STAR's = Standard Arrival Routes

SID's & STAR's are standard routes utilized by major airports and are marked on published (printed) charts. When in use, these routes are flown without any controller intervention.

----------------------------
Just a few Systems and Usage
----------------------------
IRS = Constant Use
FMC = Constant Use
AFDS = Constant Use
EICAS = Constant Use
GPWS = Constant Use
Weather Radar = From Pushback to Gate Arrival
TCAS = In use from the time the aircraft enters the active runway during takeoff until leaving the active runway after landing.
ILS = During landings

Mike

Won't STAR be Standard Terminal Arrival Route?

WOW!!
41000ft is almost highest a Cessna Citation can fly. Good for you!!

I truly wish all airlines would come to the right decision on the use of GPS. I recently traveled on American, which is one that does not allow GPS use in flight. My preference is to book on airlines that do allow GPS, but for this trip, I had to go American.

Hi,

As far as charts are concerned, STAR Charts are ATCcoded IFR arrival routes that have been established for most major airports to simplify clearance delivery procedures.

Actual Terminal Procedure Publications are as follows.

* Instrument Approach Procedure (IAP) Charts
* Departure Procedure (DP) Charts
* Standard Terminal Arrival (STAR) Charts
* Charted Visual Flight Procedures (CVFP)
* Airport Diagrams (AD)

In the US a STAR is broken down as follows
-------------------------------------------------------
S=Standard
T=Terminal
A=Arrival
R=Route

Outside the US you may also see the following
-----------------------------------------------------------
ST=Standard
A=Arrival
R=Route

They both mean the same thing.

Mike

Certified Ceiling 51,000 ft (15,545 m) for a Cessna Citation. now that is what i would like to see on the altitude on a garmin.

I was on USAirways once. I was at the window seat. It did not work.
Later, I learned that USAirways does not allow that. In today's environment, I could've been thrown off the plane or arrested by air marshall on board. Any way, I also learned that different airline has different policy on GPS onboard the plane. So it's not really an air safety thing. Since I did not get anything the first time. I didn't bother to try again.

or Yes sir.http://www.poi-factory.com/sites/all/modules/smileys/packs/netstyle/icon_razz.gif

Very Fast!

Whether it works depends on where you are sitting, what type of aircraft and the specific GPS unit you have. If it can see the satellites, it will work. Obviously, your best chance is by a window.

I have a Nuvi 760. I use it on MD80s, some of the "mini-planes" and some others without issues.

The best chance for it to work is to lock in the satellites before you get on the plane and leave it on. It will usually hold lock and work throughout the flight if you can get any signal at all.

Most, if not all airlines, do not allow GPS units to operate in flight. (There is not a valid technical reason for this, it does not interfere with any aircraft systems.). If you have an MP3 player built in, you have plausible deniability as you are "listening to music" but.. again,

It is not allowed by most, if not all airlines. (It is NOT allowed to be on below 10000 feet on ANY airline.)

However, it is nice to know where you are!

Ya might want to do a little research.
http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/airgps.htm That was the first hit on Google.

When I have used a GPSr on an aircraft, the antenna had to be within inches of the window otherwise it would lose the signal. I could not put it on the tray or in my lap, I would have to somehow keep the receiver against the window.

Seems like Southwest Airlines changes their GPS use policy every lunar cycle. I have a flight with them in two weeks we'll see if they allow its use again.

Has anyone tried to take the Honeywell AV8OR gps on a commercial flight and see the route that the aircraft is traveling?

Still have 514 mph max speed logged on my GPS

I never thought to use my Nuvi 660 on a plane. Great idea and a nice break from my Ipod. Thanks

As the 'guy up front', and a trained cartographer, of course I have played with personal GPSs in the cockpit.

Before we had digital moving maps in the cockpit, I stuck mine to the windscreen to be aware of the ground features that aviation navigation charts don't generally display. I'm the kind of pilot who will inform you of the route using cities or parks, instead of VORS....

Traveling Eastbound, with a good tailwind, I've seen over 600mph on my Nuvi screen. And as previously mentioned, I DO NOT reset it! I always thought it would be funny for a cop to pull me over and ask to see my GPS to check the max speed.....

The one lesson I've learned; don't try to program a route unless you're in 'offroad' mode. The continuous 'recalculating' statement confused my poor litle nuvi..

Frank

Concerning the legal use of electronics. The bottom line is; if a crewmember asks you to put it away, you shouldn't quibble with them because you 'might' know otherwise. They actually do know more about this than you do.

The Federal regulations are written to prevent any possibility of interference... True, there are cases of electronic use that won't interfere in the slightest amount. But it's much simpler for everyone to just comply. It's not wrong for another passenger to remind you that it's not allowed. He may be an interfering nerd, but he's not wrong. LOL

Personally, the most crucial time for accuracy in flight instruments is during a landing in bad weather. The safety tolerances are closer, and if there were a small electronic spike in my instruments up front, it could may alter the altitude by only 100 feet, but that could also mean impacting the ground sooner...... If I'm in the cabin during these conditions, I'll say something to someone 'illegally' using their electronic devices..

In their December Spirit Magazine it shows ok to use at 10,000 feet. I just used mine last week with no problem except for the time to get a lock on the satellites.

I flew to Vancouver island for the holidays planes top speed was 890 km per hour.Zoomed out a long ways and could see the town,city's etc. Neat.

A Northwest Flight Attendant once told me to turn of my CAMERA. I would hate to think a Kodak with two AA batteries is going to bring down a 757, but you have to do what they say. I just feign ignorance and for me, that's easy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXOAcq2k9bM

I was in Australia a few months ago and had purchased the Australian maps. We were flying from Carnes (northern part) to Ayer's Rock (central Australia). The flight path is basically over desert. Half way through the flight, I asked my Navi to calculate the best route from my current location (albeit at 30,000 feet) to Ayer's Rock. After a few seconds, it came back with a message of something to the effect of "There are no roads close enough". So, basically, you can't get there from here

Got the Ultra up to 102 according to the Garmin 760.
Of course it was a straightline road with more than enough sight.
I had to get pass a sissy Evo!
No offense MM, don't know your ride and whatever your preference.

Nuvi 660 worked great on flight from Tampa to Philadelphia. We could see the landmarks as we flew over. The estimated arrival kept recalculating -- don't think Nuvi had anticipated our 574 mph speed. Wasn't sure if we were 'allowed' so we did not ask permission and kept the volume turned off.

I was able to use my Nuvi everytime i Fly. (6 times) window seat, slightly slow for a fix but it works, max speed 550-630. Never had a problem with anyone telling me to put it away.

I was able to get route calclation, i had to set to off road. shortest distance. was pretty accurate to the flight path, a little off.

It was nice to know where i was how fast, and how far away from destination. I only turned off when take off, landing.

This was on airtran, delta, AA, and other related planes. US here, New york to florida, california, atlanta, pheonix, chicago, Clevland

It was not in the air - but my 317kph on the Eurostar train out of Paris is still set as my max speed on the NUVI - just in case.... I believe my max air speed has been over 1000kph - jetstream tailwind?

Southwest now allows GPS use. I will have to tell the folks who run that site listed above.

yes, its kind of fun - my old lawrance near the window showed 517mph

If someone didnt already mention it, the applicable regulation is FAR 121.306 (below)

I know a lot of you think this is probably old fashioned voodoo and your GPS won't do anything to the plane (yer probably right), but just for kicks, do a search on the NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System and see the surprising number of incidents reported by airline crews that they atribute to electronic devices.

BTW - I hold a Commercial Pilot rating but now work for US DOT...

------------------------
Sec. 121.306 - Portable electronic devices.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any U.S.-registered civil aircraft operating under this part.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to --

(1) Portable voice recorders;

(2) Hearing aids;

(3) Heart pacemakers;

(4) Electric shavers; or

(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.

(c) The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the particular device to be used.
-----

I did not see Air France listed as Yes or No.
Does anyone know?

I can't google anything on it. You could try calling an agent at 1-800-237-2747 and asking.

I'm on my way to Australia on a 747 next month and will take my GPS and see if I can get a lock while cruising over Hawaii!