Lifetime Maps, read the fine print....

Well known issue. The sad thing is that they tie it to the unit, but still don't allow you to transfer it if you sell the unit. That seems unnecessarily restrictive and indeed may discourage people who would otherwise buy a new gps.

It is the standard sell on a lifetime subscription. Same thing on the XM radio. Lifetime of the item and not your life.

Just tell the person you sell it to to just say they are you then they will get the lifetime maps...

Besides the fact that that is fraudlent, it would also mean that you would have to give them access to your MyGarmin account.

The greater fraud is when the term "lifetime" is permitted by government to be applied to an inanimate object. The reader naturally infers that the "lifetime" must be their own rather than that of some device. The confusion generated is an intentional deceit on the part of the manufacturer. The manufacturer attended what was the P.T. Barnum Institute of Ethics, which has been recently renamed the Enron-Barnum Philanthropic Fund. E-BPF has just hired George W. Bush as their new CFO.

Anthropomorphisation is the greater fraud.

"it's George Bush's fault"

If he had found a cure for cancer these people would complain that he took so long.

You really believe that for a one time fee of $120 or $60 dollars you should receive free lifetime updates no matter how many times you replace your units? Giving the store away just to sell units didn't work very well for the auto industry. If a manufacturer gives the units away for nothing and then does the same with the options they will not be around very long.

Garmin has responded to a number of people when asked the question about what happens if the GPS unit or the traffic receiver needs repair. Garmin says that if either unit is sent in for repair and if the unit needs to be replaced instead of repaired the lifetime map or traffic will transfer to the replacement unit even if past the warranty period. They gave me that response in writing when I asked those questions.

Of course they tie it to the unit, that would be like buying a new car and wanting to transfer the bumper to bumper warranty to a used car because the new one was stolen.

Always read the fine print, then there is no problem with you not understanding in the first place.

From what I have seen lately on the news the Enron-Barnum Philanthropic Fund must have their headquarters located in Chicago and New York City. I guess Bush must be taking over the recently vacated positions at E-BPF that were held by Obama and the Clinton's.

Bilson,

Check this thread that dates back to early January: http://www.poi-factory.com/node/19791

Cheers

In the past I have paid as much as $ 90.00 per year for map updates. Granted they where not named LIFETIME updates, still the $ 119.00 for as long as you own your unit seems like a deal to me. I am new to Garmin, but I did go ahead and make the purchase.

I don't understand why map prices are so high.

Why don't they lower single map update prices to $25-$30 or something?

I'm sure most people don't plan on keeping a GPS unit for more than 2-3 years, especially with GPS technology evolving so much.

Make the price of a map udpate palatable to the budget, and Garmin / TomTom may sell a lot more map updates.

I agree. The "lifetime" updates cost about as much as 2 maps at a discounted price. Just don't leave your unit out so that it could be stolen, and hope it doesn't break too quickly.

As stated above if you own a new car that's under warranty and includes roadside service, and that car is stolen, you can't transfer the mechanical and roadside assistance warranties to the replacement.

If any company wanted to include totally lifetime maps no matter what replacements you buy, they'd have to charge a lot more. I don't think any GPSr company will ever offer truly lifetime maps.

TomTom could because they own TeleAtlas, Garmin's hands are tied because they don't owen the NATEQ
maps and have to be the middle man and still make money.

Yes TomTom / Navteq can charge whatever they want, but does it make sense?

GM and Chrysler can charge $500k for their cars, but will it sell?

Most people I know will never buy map updates, ever, at these outrageous prices. They'd rather find a torrent online and download it.

Uh oh, now you've done it. Duck!

Cost is exactly why I have never upgraded the GPS in my 2004 Chrysler. They want $199 plus 21.95 S&H for the NavTeq update DVD. Talk about highway robbery!!

LOL I'm not saying I agree with it, at all, but reality is a lot of people I know just won't buy these updates.

The older generation like myself are much more old fashioned and would never do that. But the new millenials and younger folks grew up with a different take on things, and they're very comfortable with downloading music, movies, and software. They've learned to hack iPhones to make them work on networks Apple never intended, and have the smarts to do whatever they deem worth the effort.

With the non growth in the current economy you probably won't need new maps for a few years

That's not the real answer. MS and Delorme can because they produce PC software that they do exactly this with, about $29 bucks a copy, sometimes less if you find a sale. And I'm not sure if MS even owns their data or if they get it elsewhere. TomTom could, just decides that they have a captive market who can't go elsewhere so they set the price where they want. Garmin is in a strong position to negotiate terms with their map supplier. And could even play suppliers against each other if they wanted and talk to Delorme. And unless you have hard data to back it up, I doubt very much if their per unit price to their data supplier is enough to force the high prices we see, at least for one-shot updates. The reason they charge what they do is the same reason TomTom does, they can get it, the customer has no good alternative source for new maps.

...is some kind of lifetime map discount if I choose to upgrage to a better model.

I have a Nuvi 200 now, which works fine for me. To be honest, since I have the lifetime maps tied to this I will be *less* likely to purchase an upgraded unit in the semi-near future.

I hope sometime Garmin has a deal if you upgrade, and previously have lifetime maps, you could get something of a discount when purchasing lifetime maps for the new GPS. Maybe a combination deal or something. If that were the case I would probably upgrade much sooner.

I think id be able to deal with an outdated map than pay for outrageous update. Single or lifetime.

MS gets their US map data from TeleAtlas and the Canadian map data from Navteq.

But they don't make anywhere near as much per copy because they don't own the maps! they are the middle man. They can only play suppliers against one another for future projects because of the algorithms developed for maps in use with unit already delivered, plus Garmin is under a healthy contract with NAVTEQ and isn't going to negotiate anything in the near future, so in essence Garmin has no alternative source for maps.

I agree most will never buy a map update,people should just buy a new GPSr every two year.

But stealing a map won't bring the price down, Now your talking Piracy.

I see the update is the 2009. When do you think the 2010 will come out? I bought a 760 January of last year and it came with 2008. The 2009 came around May, if I remember correctly. If I purchase the Lifetime maps, I would get the 2009 upgrade, then I would get the 2010 upgrade, right? If so, the $120 saves about $20 on the 2 upgrades, and the 2011 will be basically be fee. Still not sure which way to lean on this one

life time maps are ok if you spend the money to get a high doller unit like me i have a nuvi 5000 and a nuvi 200w if i just had the 200w i would not do the life time maps but i have the 5000 so that is why i got the life time maps and if you do get the life time maps and end up upgrading just give the unit to a family member and just up date it for them

nuvi 5000 and nuvi 200w
( LIFE TIME MAPS )

AS LONG AS YOU UPDATE IT IS NOT FRAUDLENT THEY DON'T CARE HOW IT GETS UPDATED THE UPDATE STAYS WITH THE UNIT SO IF I WOULD GIVE THE UNIT TO FAMILY OR FRIEND AND WHEN AN UPDATE COMES OUT THEY BRING THE UNIT TO YOU ITS NOT FRAUD

NUVI 5000 AND NUVI 200W
( life time maps )

It's fraudulent because the terms state that the Lifetime Maps subscription is not transferable to another person.

But whatever ...

not transfering it you are still updating the unit that u paid for u may not be using it the fine print is a gray area if you down load music is fraud of or copy a cd from a friend is fraud they only way that garmin would know if i some one starts reporting it to garmin

nuvi 5000 and nuvi 200w
( lifetime maps )

Well, I have actually ordered THREE of the nuMaps Lifetime cards for my 3 units. I usually buy the newest maps anyway so it's not a bad deal.

But... what I find MOST appealing about the lifetime maps, is that it will be a Quarterly update.

I have been saying for a long while that I would certainly buy a subscription based maps if it was updated quartely.

I put my money wqhere my mouth is... and bought the lifetime quarterly updates.

I like to have the most updated data and now I can get it every 3 months !

Tim

Garmin states it will issue map updates up to four times a year. So they do not guarantee quarterly updates. I'm not saying they won't issue quarterly updates, I'm just correcting your misconception that the updates are guaranteed to be quarterly.

I think they will lower the price on the lifetime maps. Being you can buy a new one cheaper all the time with all the lastest stuff, they are going to have to come down on that price. I am waiting until it's like near 50 or 60 bucks like the traffic.

Id rather just get a new unit ever couple of years.

i will just buy a new unit and get all the new updates that come with it

[/quote]

Garmin states it will issue map updates up to four times a year. So they do not guarantee quarterly updates. I'm not saying they won't issue quarterly updates, I'm just correcting your misconception that the updates are guaranteed to be quarterly.[/quote]

Thanks.... I was aware that it was "up to four time a year" and not guaranteed. But evem if it's only two times a year... I still like the idea.

I see many people stating they would rather just buy a brand new GPS than pay for the map updates.

It may be worth it to get the latest and greatest GPS... it's all up to the individual.

If Garmin made their GPS with heirloom quality it *may* be worth the lifetime price.

But Garmin and other GPS manufacturers have gone cheap on build quality so who knows how long the current GPS units will last.

I consider them to be consumables that last 2-3 years at best, with the current build quality.

You can make it work however you want in your own head, but it will be theft by the TOS you agree to when you purchase maps.

And lay off the caps!

TomTom bit off more than they could chew buying TeleAtlas. It has strapped them for cash and hurt them financially in the short run, in the longer run may not help them that much.

Garmin was probably smart to not outbid TomTom on acquiring them. They also may eventually start their own mapping division which would be a big blow to Navteq.

There are financial people that have said that they feel that TomTom will not be able to meet their required interest and principal payments on the debt from the TeleAtlas purchase. Maybe Garmin may be able to pick up TeleAtlas for pennies on the dollar in the near future.

And what about the contract they have with NAVTEQ?
These are not sports stars that want to renegotiate in the middle of the contract!Now that would be bitting off more than they could chew, pay a on going contract and buy another company. We will all see what happens together I guess. But I doubt NAVTEQ would let them out of the deal to buy their competition.

Look for Delorme to make a bid when the time comes.

http://www8.garmin.com/pressroom/corporate/111607.html

I don't know. You may be right. The page states: "The agreement allows Garmin to continue using NAVTEQ data through 2015, with an option to renew for an additional four-year period." It doesn't state anywhere that Garmin is obligated to Navteq in any way, or has to continue using Navteq. I'm sure there are financial commitments to this deal, I'm just not sure what they are.

DeLorme is still a fairly small company. I don't know if they have the resources to supply Garmin. That could change by 2015, of course.

If you want to mince words Contract, Agreement then read this one. Because they are stuck and bound to NAVTEQ.

http://www.gpstracklog.com/gps_tracklog/2007/11/garmin-drops...

You don't play Professional Football do you?

Information on the Garmin/NAVTEQ agreement from GPS Magazine, it appears that Garmin and Navteq are really tight and in bed with each other:

"Garmin's bidding war with TomTom cost the Dutch-based firm an additional $870 million to acquire Tele Atlas. At the same time Garmin has brokered a deal with NAVTEQ that guarantees continued access to maps, as well as NAVTEQ's underlying map technology in a technology-sharing agreement between Garmin and NAVTEQ."

"The Garmin/NAVTEQ agreement is more than a simple licensing contract; the deal establishes a technology-sharing agreement between Garmin and NAVTEQ that will permit Garmin to create "made by Garmin" maps."

Link to article:

http://www.gpsmagazine.com/2007/11/garmin_cancels_bid_on_tel...

Thanks guys. I knew there was more to it than that, but wasn't sure.

It doesn't really list the specifics of the contract though if Garmin can opt out, etc.

I also wonder what they mean by "made by Garmin" maps? If that means Garmin will have proprietary info that Navteq doesn't distribute to their other clients?

The maps are coded with information for Garmin, then when you receive your disk or download your maps, you must install the Garmin Communicator Plugin on your computer so Garmin can detect and communicate with your device.

The clients that BUY their maps from NAVTEQ get the same maps, nothing Proprietarty for them.

Wow, I was just reading on and on. So much information here...

Thanks everyone!

For $80-$120 I'll just buy a new unit in a couple of years. By 5 years they'll probably be totally obsolete anyway, and the companies out of business (just the map companies themselves will survive).

I started this thread to make some people aware of what Lifetime means in Garmin speak. I think it is fraudulent for Garmin to use that terminology and then defining it in the small print. Usually when software is released minor bug and error fixes are noted with a decimal number (2009.1) and a major change (upgrade) is with a whole number such as 2009 to 2010. I expect to pay for upgrades, but not for bug and error fixes. I paid for a product which I expect to function properly. Some may disagree with me but may I point out the hated Microsoft and all of the fixes that are called updates that you get for free. ex; Windows XT service packs 1-3 and the security updates. Of course then there is Vista. . . a major change (hate to refer to Vista as an upgrade) with it's daily updates.

When Garmin releases update firmware to fix problems they didn't charge, so why should we pay for an update to the mapping software that simply fixes problems within the maps such as missing road and streets that have been around for two or more years. Or POI's that are way outdated, not to mention intersections that are shown but you can never get a navigated turn because the map overlays have a fraction or crack that you can't see but the software sees it as not connected. Hope I made my point. Here is a new post which is a good example, http://www.poi-factory.com/node/20585 Are we going to be charge for the fix? I understand that Garmin stated that a possible firmware update, yet to be released, will address the problem caused by the map update. Kind of sounds like the dog chasing his tail.

Now if you want to sell me upgrades at a subscription price give me a period of time or x amount of upgrades. Register it to me, not a unit that might break, get stolen, etc. Personally, I prefer Microsoft Streets & Trip. Great inexpensive mapping navigational software, but must be used on a computer with a GPS puck. This is to bulky to use while driving, so I use a Garmin. Before a trip I verify the Garmin routing against Streets & Trips and make any necessary adjustments to the Garmin routing using Via Points. I always felt that if Garmin and Microsoft had gotten together, wow, what a unit!

If they take long enough to fix the map data (if the maps are at fault) after the initial release, those that were eligible for a free update (nuMaps Guarantee) won't get the update. If it's the firmware code that is causing the problems with the maps, I'm fairly certain there will be no charge (there never has been for firmware updates...if you really want to call some of them "updates" )

My guess is if the errors are in the map data, they will try their best to fix it with a firmware update (as they've been trying to do) to avoid providing another map update for free to those that downloaded the first.