3 Reasons to Sell Garmin Today

I have had the Verizon LG Voyager for almost a year and it is a much upgraded higher end version of the new Dare model and has a fairly good sized touch screen on the exterior. The phone has navigator on it and the option runs an additional $9.99 per month or $2.99 per day added to the normal service. From my experience it is not anywhere close to the ease of use and functions of my 760. It is something that I would use for a occasional unplanned GPS need but would never work as a everyday GPS.

As you watch the video try to imagine yourself trying to drive the car while using it like I normally do these same function with my 760 while driving.

This is a video link that clearly shows what the typical phone is like when trying to use it like I normally use my GPS for navigation, POI search and dialing of a found POI:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghypR6g5ZAE

Plus, the market is changing too fast, prices are dropping for the same features, and new models depreciate very quickly. As with many electronics products in fast-development and booming growth cycles, like GPS, unless you absolutely have to have a particular feature that is only available on high end models, it only makes sense to stay relatively cheap and wait for the features to trickle down in price, as they generally do.

This is another reason to avoid expensive built-in GPS in cars, whether OEM or aftermarket, unless you are allergic to visible wires inside your car.

Monday October 20, 6:33 pm ET
Patrick Seitz

The once-hot market for portable navigation devices is starting to cool off because of competition from smart phones with built-in GPS navigation. Some say the PND could soon go the way of the personal digital assistant.
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Some observers give navigation device makers such as Garmin (NasdaqGS:GRMN - News) and TomTom several more years of sales growth in the category, driven mainly by lower prices. But others say the PND market is already kaput.

"This PND space is absolutely going in the crapper," said Jeff Evanson, an analyst at Dougherty & Co.

Evanson sees several factors leading to a "dramatic slowdown" in PND sales. They include a lack of innovation in PND products for the upcoming holiday season, signs of market saturation and competition for consumer spending.

"The days of the PND as a separate device category are numbered," said Michael Davies, a senior lecturer at MIT Sloan School of Management.

GPS Now Standard

The portable navigation device market is being eaten by smart phones and more factory-installed dashboard navigation systems in cars, Davies says.

A host of mobile phone makers and wireless carriers are promoting navigation. New handsets from Nokia (NYSE:NOK - News), Palm (NasdaqGS:PALM - News), Research In Motion (NasdaqGS:RIMM - News) and Samsung boast GPS navigation systems. AT&T (NYSE:T - News), Verizon Wireless, Sprint Nextel (NYSE:S - News)and others offer navigation software and services from Networks In Motion and TeleNav.

Plus, trendy new touch-screen phones, such as Apple's (NasdaqGS:AAPL - News) iPhone 3G and T-Mobile's G1 phone with Google's (NasdaqGS:GOOG - News) Android software, promise PND-like functionality on a large display.

Smart phones might not be as good as PNDs in ease of use and some navigation features, but they're good enough for a lot of users, says Richard Robinson, an analyst at research firm iSuppli. And consumers prefer having one portable device instead of two, he says.

That's what happened with PDAs early this decade. Smart phones began offering many PDA functions, such as calendars, contacts and note-taking. PDAs did the job better, but smart phones were good enough for many.

"The promise of GPS and turn-by-turn navigation on your cell phone will keep people from buying a PND, even if they never use the navigation on the handset," Evanson said.

Adoption of GPS navigation services on cell phones has been low, analysts say. But that's likely to change with the rollout of more touch-screen phones with bigger displays, improving ease of use.

Another drawback to cell phone navigation services has been cost. Services that offer spoken turn-by-turn directions and real-time traffic typically charge $10 a month. But service providers are experimenting with new business models, including pay-per-use fees and ad-supported services.

PNDs were last year's hot Christmas gift thanks to aggressive pricing and new designs such as shirt-pocket-size and widescreen devices. This year, PND makers are offering nothing new except lower prices. Name-brand PNDs are selling for as little as $99.

I always want to make sure I have tiny mobile phone with me wherever I go, not a big one. Seriously, I do not expect nav system mixed with mobile phone since I always get updated phone every couple years. Too bad I can not get rid of nav system so quickly.

We are all here because we enjoy the stand-alone units. Of course we all feel strongly about our units (I can say I love mine, how about you?) But the problem is the numbers. Are there enough of us to keep the makers of these units in business.

We are here because we see why having a separate unit is so much better, if we didn't we wouldn't be here in the first place. We all know how much better our units are compared to the in-car units, that's why we have them. But come on, do you really believe the in-car units will not improve, including being able to update POI's, in the future? They will improve and they will get cheaper. I am not saying tomorrow, but they will get cheaper over time, and they will improve, its just gonna happen.

And if you don't see the cell phone GPS improving even faster, look at what was just announced for the software upgrades for the GPS in the iphone (just as one example):

"The next version of Apple's iPhone software will not only introduce Street Views to the handset's Maps application, but also provide bus, train and walking directions, a series of new photos reveal."

Here is the link for some screen shots: http://www.iphoneyap.com/album.php?albumid=11

And again, the iphone screen is as big or actually bigger than my Garmin's screen. All that is needed is a mount to hold it like my Garmin.

Again, don't get me wrong, I LOVE MY GARMIN. I just don't think it is the future (unfortunately).

Deborah

Correction....after 4-5 tries, all is well.

Where I live, cell phone use is illegal while driving. Considering I to hold my iPhone close to be able to see the screen while driving (that screen was not designed to be viewed in full sunlight and is not visible on the dash), I would be breaking the law. Yet another consideration as cell phone bans while driving become the norm.

Until Apple & Att get the prices down for Monthly service the IPhone will lose out to compition just like Garmin and their pricing structure.
So I agree with you Deborah, that garmin isn't the future, and neither is apple. the maps on the link you showed are impressive, however no problem for others phones to have either. the problem is going to be outlawed cellphone laws in cars for the future.

So be careful when getting rid of that standalone GPSr
you might not be able to use your cellphone someday as a gps while traveling down the road. So be a wise shopper
Bob

These are a couple of good videos of the new Garmin Nuviphone from June. If the navigation is as it appears here is like the current Nuvi line this would be very tempting. It also will mount in a cradle mount in the car the same as the current 700 and 800 series do.

Hands on with the Garmin Nuviphone thread link:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/18070

garmin will be fine

Not with the current pricing structure!

I agree having a GPS phone is great for when walking around in an unfamiliar city/setting. But, for use as a car or motorcycle device the screen is simply too small. Each good for different settings. I like the fact we have more choices to fit the activities that we all might have...

Hi mmullins98.

I'm not so sure about that. As a former private pilot that used to rent a Cherokee wet for $28/hr, I can tell you that increasing equipment, fuel, and liability costs have driven civil aircraft sales way down from it's former days of glory.

Although I would venture to say there's a higher profit margin in for Garmin than auto GPS sales and it's most likely very profitable, but things aren't looking that rosy in the civil aviation avionics market as trends in the market put pleasure flying out of range of the average Joe.

Not that it matters to me but I did not write "Long live the Aviation division because it alone probably subsidizes the rest of the Garmin empire." it was FREDDIE40.

According to their latest financial statement, the aviation units only account for 9.8% of Garmin's sales, while automobile units account for 69.3% of sales.

http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGarmin/invRelations/reports/Q220...

Sorry mmullins98.

I think my brain is on vacation lately.

That leaves 21% unaccounted for, I wonder what else they might be into?

aviation 9.8%
automobile 69.3%
Unknown 20.9% Marine division?

Bob

From what I've seen, the other 20.9% could be divided into two sections. 9.8% Marine (matching the Aviation percentage,) and the final 11.1% goes into the "Keep the customer guessing about what we're planning on doing with products and pricing division..."

A lot of people here seem to be living in a world that has already passed them by.

The PC phone might still in its infancy and there are many bugs to be worked out. But soon, the cell phones of today will be considered dinosaurs when the hiptop do-everything computer device is in everyone's pocket, or on their belt. Right now there is a lot of resistance to "phones" that are the size of a Nuvi or even one that is much bigger than the iPhone.

But once people start giving up their laptops for PDA's that are also phones, GPS's, Cameras, and just about anything you can currently do on your laptop things will start to change. These new super hiptop units will be powerful computers running open-source programs that you can download for free over the internet, and buy even more powerful applications to install on your own to customize it just like you can your desktop or laptop computers.

They might be a bit large to hold up to your head and "talk" like a regular phone, but with the advancement of bluetooth headsets and the like, this isn't going to make much of a difference. Either you will wear an earpiece and hold the unit in your hand (or leave it right on your belt and use voice commands) or maybe at first have a small detachable headset smaller than current phones.

You say that a phone won't have a large enough touchscreen? These devices will have bigger and better touchscreens than seen today on current high-end GPS units. They will also be user-configurable so that all the cripple-ware that garmin refuses to enable on any of their lower or mid-priced models will be available to anyone who wants to surf the net and find a program that will do that.

In 4-5 years you will be hard-pressed to see anyone walking down the street without one of these units strapped to their belts. WHY would anyone want to waste time with an EXPENSIVE, clunky GPS-only unit in their car? If anything, there might be a blue-tooth LARGE touchscreen in their car that will work with any persons portable hiptop computer so it will never need to be upgraded. It'll just be a monitor and the real hardware will be carried around by the person on their belt. The screen will just be a wireless monitor that interacts with it. Perhaps there will be a wireless axillary GPS unit in the car to help with reception. These are already available today for under $50.

This is the future. People can pretend that it isn't coming. Garmin KNOWS it is coming. They are trying to make all the money they can before it happens, but their days are numbered already. The business model of selling a GPS-only device like they are making now will be as out-dated as those portable electronic dictionary/organizers you used to see some people carry a few years ago when such toys first became available.

Afraid that an all-in-one unit won't be able to do the specialized jobs as well? No, it'll do them better, and cheaper because it won't be just a tiny expensive low-powered electronic device designed to do one thing, it will be a powerful computer more advanced than the desktops we are using today. Any issues with screen size, keyboard size or things like that will be taken care of by peripherals linked wirelessly to the belt-mounted unit. Many thousands of different options will be available just like different peripherals are available to your desktop and laptop computers. They will be plentiful and cheap and work with any unit using standard protocols. Buy what you want for your own personal needs. It will be plug-and-play wireless technology.

This is the future, if we don't regress into the stone age first with bad fiscal policy so we can't afford it. I think we probably won't go that far backwards before this type of consumer device is available at the same price we see today's cell phones and laptops.

Why buy an expensive GPS that will only do one thing and costs just as much as this do-all device that does it just as well, or better?

THIS is the future.

a phone is designed to be small and fit in your pocket
a nav system needs to have a decent size screen
I would only use a phone for this purpose in a pinch
and remember maps are uploaded to teh phone not stored so teh second you lose coverage you're toast

Automotive/Mobile 69.3%
Outdoor/Fitness 13.1%
Aviation 9.8%
Marine 7.8%

Although I agree with Serenityvalley, I still believe it will be the in-dash Navs that will be in the auto's of the future. The mobile example of the iphone was just one example. I still believe the average person will have a built-in system in their cars in just a couple of years.

The first GPS I had was an in-dash, in a 1998 car. At the time it was something special, a real luxury. Now you can get it in many cars. And in 10 years, they have come along way. I remember wishing just 5 or 6 years ago it would be nice to have the traffic on the system so I could avoid it.

There has to be someone on this site that remembers when electric windows did NOT come standard in a new car, or how about AC? How about microwaves; does anyone remember what a new one cost the first 10 years? OK, do you remember Black & White TV's with NO remote control?

The built-in GPS is the future. Give it 5-10 years, everyone will have them. AND I believe they will be better than what we have now. OH, and how many people have you heard say their cars were broken into to steal their in-dash Nav systems?

Deborah

To pay an extra $10 a month for a cell phone gps just doesn't make any sense to me, unless I only needed it for a month or two.

I like the "dedicated" purpose of my GPSr.

I can't imagine I'd be satisfied with a cell phone gps.

But, check back with me in 5 years; two years ago I would never have even considered having a gps in any form.

I like having a camera in my cell phone, when I want an emergency picture. But for a "real picture" I use my Olympus.

Only if your aloud to use one in your car, as of now it don't look good even for bluetooth. Have you ever been on the freeway and have someone doing 40 mph? good chance they have a cell phone in their ear either the old way or bluetooth. So I don't agree it's as cut and dry as you think it's going to be.

Bob

The front-line cellphone/PDA's are already MORE powerful devices than the top of the line Garmins right now. They have better processors, better displays and WAY more memory. In a couple of years at the outside, the average cell phone will be a better all-round GPS than anything we can imagine right now. It'll just HAVE that capability built in, as extra capacity. That is just how fast the new cell phones/PDA's are improving right now.

THIS is the technology that everyone will have in their pockets by then except for the people holding onto the old junk handsets that they are making now (which are already pretty powerful little units).

For people who say "laws" are going to forbid the using of cell phones in cars, they are really not living in the realm of reality. there is NO way that this is going to happen. Hand's free devices will be legal BECAUSE they will become priceless utilities that people are not going to accept being barred from using.

I do think that most of these new "in car" GPS units will be utilized by using remote touch-screen perepherals mounted in-dash or stuck on by suction-cups/glue like we are seeing now with present-day GPS stand-alone units. Many will utilize wireless antenna/booster recievers as well. The phones themselves will probably never need to be taken off the belt (even to answer/talk as everyone will be using earpieces or small handsets that are also wireless).

The human of 2-3 years from now will never be away from his 'hiptop' computer which will go everywhere with him and be his constant companion. All the "stand-alone" units will be dumb peripherals hooked into it. I would wager that most people would carry around a mini camera-handset-keyboard/screen which only is a wireless slave of the main unit, but smaller in size. This will allow the main unit to be comfortably strapped to the belt.

I think you said all that two posts back! So we will have to wait for a while, and I really do hope your right. I do have to say it don't look good.

Serenityvalley a place to start a little reading then use the search function to look for more.

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/18110

Bob

people are unlikely to pay monthly fee for receiving GPS signal which is supposed to be free of charge.
I would believe both mobile phone and GPSr will co-exist just like big screen TV and portable TV. Why not?

I'd never trade my garmin for a cell phone. They just dont even compare.

Whoopee!! Raw processing power really doesn't mean much when it is compared against a special purpose processor performing the function it was designed to do.

Most prognosticators provide the correct answer less than 5% of the time. If you want to say the trend will be toward a multifunction device that will be capable of handling cell phone duties and other functions such as GPS, then you would be entirely on track.

Let's see - the cell phone I carry can report its position through an embedded GPS chip, make phone calls, search the web, take pictures, perform some basic calculator functions, use bluetooth, receive FM broadcasts, play MP3s and a raft of other things. As for me, if it makes and receives calls and I can use the calculator if needed, that's all I need. The rest of the features are almost useless to me with the exception of having the ability to report my position in case of an emergency call - but only if my carrier has upgraded their equipment to query and carry the data to a 9-1-1 center that has also been updated to at least Phase II E9-1-1 systems.

It has been documented, and the body of evidence is growing at such places as the US Department of Transportation, the Department of Justice, the Centers for Disease Control and a raft of other research and policy institutions the technology explosion is creating havoc on our roadways through operators being distracted. What recent studies are finding is driver distraction is playing almost as important a role in crashes as speed and weather related factors. There is a limit, and it's been surpassed in recent years with all our toys as to what we can process in a timely manner with our brains. Distraction from external devices - cell phones, PDAa, MP3 players slow our reaction times and even though cars and roads are being better built to reduce the dangers, we are loading ourselves up with accessories that negate all this effort - and you want to say pile on even more?

I have a feeling there will be a great many more people that will just want to withdraw from the "connected world." As Lily Tomlin stated, the winner of the rat race is still a rat. There will be those that feel they have to have all the toys, but there will be those who feel they need tools, not toys and I'm one of the tool people.

The GPS on my BlackBerry is not only slow, but impossible to use while driving. Garmin is the way to go!

Ditto, here

Ditto, here!!!

Garmin is still number one. Multifunctional phones cannot compete.

Ray

I'm cracking up at all the people saying that a cell phone will never be able to compete with their Garmin units.

Why? Because even Garmin knows that the future is in cell phones. Why else would Garmin spend millions of dollars trying to develop the Nuviphone?

Why? New Coke. That was great, wasn't it?

take your short selling crap back to the message boards and leave this gps forum clean.

Not to pick Nits, but this IS a Message Board. If you mean Usenet, then say so.

BTW, Miss POI is the official Net Nanny here.

Thanks for your participation and patience.

well, nowaday we have mobile phone which can play mp3, but y american still buying ipod?

Well pull yourself together, it's not that they can't compete. It's more like they will probably become illegal in cars as all cell phones of any type should be!
Someone on a cell phone is worse than drunk driving, bluetooth (handsfree) or not.

It's important to be aware of the fact that many jurisdictions have made it illegal to use your cell phone while driving. In some cases you can still use hands-free devices.
Ignorance of the law is no defense, so make note of where you cannot use your cell phone.

United States:

* Arkansas - only in force for school bus drivers
* Arizona - effective only for school bus drivers
* California - effective Jan. 2008 you must use a hands free device.
* Conneciticut
* Brooklyn, Ohio has passed an ordnance making it illegal to use handheld cell phones.
* District of Columbia
* New Jersey
* New York - hands-free use is allowable and emergency use of a hand-held cell phone.

Many States currently have legislation pending regarding the use of cell phones. Most States also cover using cell phones in the case of accidents or other law-breaking activities while driving a vehicle in their respective traffic legislation.

The University of Utah researchers determined that motorists on the blood-alcohol threshold of being legally drunk were able to drive better than sober cell phone using drivers. A key researcher and author in this field, Psychology Professor David Strayer notes, "Just like you put yourself and other people at risk when you drive drunk, you put yourself and others at risk when you use a cell phone and drive. The level of impairment is very similar." Also, consider they found motorists to be more accident-prone and slower to react when talking on cellular telephones. It did not matter if it was hands-free either because of "inattention blindness", a syndrome that makes a driver less able to process visual information.

For anyone interested in a poll taken by the
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration about this subject:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/departments/nrd-13/driver-distr...

So thats where I'm coming from.
Bob

i think as long as garmin continues to make quality products then they wont have to worry about it. ive used other people's GPS and they arent as user friendly in my opinion.

i think garmin needs to partner with google maps because those guys at google continue to better their maps.

garmin's downfall would be the prices. i wish they were cheaper and offer better deals with map updates. going around with an unupdated map is as bad as not having one.

Google Maps gets their map data from Tele Atlas that is owned by Garmin's biggest competition TomTom. They were in a bidding war with TomTom but did not win Tele Atlas.

OK, if you are NOT carrying a cell phone and "withdrawing from society" they you might want a GPS (although why an Luddite would even want to have a GPS when they eschew the universal gadget of the 21st century, the mobile phone, is beyond me. You might as well be Amish at that point.

So, except for the Luddites/Amish that refuse to own/carry a cell phone, every modern human in the civilized world will AREADY be carrying a device that will replace totally the need to carry a specialized GPS. Regardless of what people think today about the capabilities and limitations of CURRENT cell phones with GPS, the phones of the next few years will be so far advanced that they WILL BE more capable GPS devices than anything Garmin makes today. They won't be slow, they won't have bad interfaces, they won't suffer any of the limitations that current phones (and many dedicated GPS units too) have today.

Only a fool would spend hundreds of dollars on a single-use unit that doesn't do anything more/better than the device they already have in their pocket. Technology is going to leave the dedicated GPS unit in the dust, just like it did the horse-drawn carriage, the coal-oil lamp, and the ox-plow.

Maybe Garmin can sit down with RIM and Apple and maybe integrate their great GPS System into the cell phones too instead of competing with them.

I must say you do have a great way of twisting quotes to fit your view of the world. How you get from "withdraw from the 'connected world'" to "withdrawing from society" is a true stretch. If you did pay attention to my statement, you would have noticed that I didn't say I didn't or wouldn't carry a cell or other piece of electronic technology. I stated I use them a tools to accomplish my daily tasks and not as something to dazzle someone else with a device that does a multitude of functions, none of them extremely well.

From there you show that you really lack an argument of a means of defending your beliefs by departing into an ad hominem accusation by classifying anyone that refuses to accept your poorly articulated thesis.

While we can agree the cellular "smart device" will continue to evolve, how can you be so certain the standalone device will not also evolve?

What you fail to account for in your view are the actual out-of-pocket costs involved in subscribing to your multi-function device. There are monthly recurring costs for cellular service (and those charges are roughly the same for any device having basic voice service.) To this you have to add the data plan, right now that is running me about $71.20 per month for my laptop card. All total I'm spending about $115 per month for wireless service on two devices that fit my needs.

I don't text, so my phone has both incoming and outgoing disabled. Saves me whatever fee the carrier wants for texting. Now, lets talk about location services. My standalone device will last 3 or 4 years, and assuming 36 months, the $250 I paid for it works out to $6.95 per month. I don't anticipate buying a map update, so no charge there.

My cell phone was included in the service agreement, so no cost there. Your "smart" device probably set you back over $300 and if it lasts 36 months, that's $8.33 per month. So, over a 36 month period I'm up about $50 on just the equipment and basic service. Working in a technology field, I know it is both difficult and expensive to use a cell phone as a wireless modem, so that means besides your device, you need a wireless card to run your computer as I haven't seen a cell phone that can do power point presentations since the original Nokia Communicators released around 2000 or 2001.

Your smart device may be capable or receiving or sending email, but for document composing, you need a computer so that's a wash. Estimating your data card cost is the same as mine, I'm up the $2565 in data charges because I have only the one card, and you are paying for 2 data plans. The way I am seeing it, your single smart device that doesn't meet all your requirements has got you spending over $2600 in 3 years more than me, and if there is an equipment failure, I'm not completely without service, so I have redundancy and diversification which you lack. Maybe why I'm the Telecommunications Manager and you're not.

Glad you are a Telecommunications Manager and not a math major. Because your math is really bad. I'm not even going to waste the time trying to explain how bad it is.

Gee, blame the calculator.

Cost of Nuvi = $250
This comes out to a "cost" of $6.9444 per month over 36 months.

Cost of Smart phone = $300
Cost over 36 months = $8.33
Difference between the 2 = $8.33 - 6.94 = $1.39
$1.39 x 36 = $50.16

Data plan for laptop card = $71.20 / month
Cost for 36 months = $2563.20

I pay for one plan, Serenity valley has a data plan for the phone and another for the data card for when he's on the road. That comes to a $2563 cost I avoided. Add the $50 cost difference over 36 months and that's $2613.

a_user...
Your sig:
Just one click away from the end of the Internet

Is that anywhere near the Restaurant at the End of the Universe?

It's just over a block from my office. Why? The soup and sandwich special is usually pretty good, crow and missteaks.

With a phone GPS, it is fine for casual use, may not be good for driving, for example and taking call at the same time. Another point is the accuracy. A lot of embedded GPS chips in the phone are not accurate enough, the most common issue is the tracking delay.

Jeff