Nuvi vs iPhone GPS

I have not tried the iPhone's GPS function yet. For some people that will be just the ticket. For others, it is still going to work out better to keep them separate. I have a Nextel through work, but I use a Garmin StreetPilot 2730 for navigating. The 2730 has no monthly charge. It will do multiple destination routing, which I do use a lot. Also, it would seem cumbersome to me to talk on the phone while it is navigating. Another big issue is being out of range of cell towers. I think the new iPhone is true GPS, not A-GPS, thus it will work even independent of a cell phone tower. I think it is great that cell phones have GPS, but it won't replace everybody's stand alone GPS.

There are benefits to having the GPS in the phone, I imagine, but it won't have all the features and benefits of a full-function automotive GPS.

I don't think an iPhone w/GPS could replace my Nuvi 680 & 660 for road navigation. As a backup device, however, it might serve very well.

Joe

The new 3g is $199. But that is not it's real cost. To get the phone @ $199 means a 2 year contract. This could total $2k per year.

Very true but most people already have cell phones and are paying similar amounts for them. Although I don't deny that the iPhone will probably end up being slightly more expensive.

You might be right but so far I haven't found anything that I use my Nuvi for that the iPhone doesn't do except maybe the redlight POIs. I'm still investigating that one ( not that I gun it when I see a yellow light coming up ) to see if the iPhone can handle POIs of some sort.

One thing I have tried is to ask for all the McDonalds in a city. I get a lot of little red dots on a map of the whole city with one blue dot in the middle. The blue dot being me. I find it nice to get the big picture. The Nuvi can find all the McDonalds too ( well.. sometimes it can! ) but I find it difficult to visualize where they are because all I get back is the distance to them and an arrow pointing in the approxmate direction.

Not that true. My Blackberry is supplied by the office and will never be an iPhone. GPS is disabled by corporate policy, to control expenses.

Data plans are expensive here in Canada. (see http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpWls_RtpDetails.page?wlcs_c...)

As for my wife's, it's a standard Motorola that she uses only for emergencies. It's on a basic voice service (around 300$/year) with no data plan. (too rich for my blood too)

Simon

Sorry Freddie
After reading your message above it seems to me your really trying to convince yourself how great it is, No Thanks on this end.

There is no justifying the exorbitant monthly bill from AT&T and for the IPhone phone service & data charges.
SO, are you telling me you don't mind REBOOTING your iPhone to get it to connect ? Karma for all those windows vs MAC "it just works" commercials huh ? The inconsistent 3G connection is due to an "immature" 3G chip inside the iPhone, manufactured by Infineon

But WAIT.. it's an APPLE product, so rebooting it 5 times a day is ok, it's only bad if it's someone elses product. (I'am a PC & I'am a Mac, garbage)

I will keep my stand alone GRSr's and my plain Cell phone until the G3 networks actually get completely built.

OBTW Everyones and I mean Everyones G3 network is better than AT&T's, And usually at half the cost per month, however since you just got it and with that $175.00 ETF per line, you can keep trying to convince everyone how great the G3IPhone is I guess.

Bob

What's Wrong With the 3G in iPhone 3G?
http://tinyurl.com/68y5qo

As a lot of rumors say that ipod touch will has a GPS. That is a good for no monthly fee. As same one know that Apple not allows developer to create turn by turn nav program. Why?? Does Apple plan to design it for ipod touch and iphone.

Tomorrow (Sep 9) Apple will launch more ipod let see what it.

Two Blackberrys & a Razr, I don't have text messaging or internet access. I pay a total of about $82 a month for the three lines. I just checked, the Iphone with 2 lines is $130, plus $40 for and additional line, plus taxes, fees etc, ect. I bet when you add the extra taxes etc you will be pushing $200 a month. That is around $2400 a year vs less than $1000 a year.

I could by a new 880 and updates for much less than that. The Iphone is probably great if you want to spend that kind of money but I would rather check my email on my computer, watch movies/TV on my big screen, listen to music/books on my Ipod, and be guided by my nuvi.

I know I could listen to mp3s on my Blackberry or nuvi but the Ipod is built for that function. I could watch movies on my Blackberry or Ipod but I like my big screen hi def TV for that or better yet go to a theater... I can take photos with my Blackberry and in some cases do, but generally I use my SLR digital camera because it takes much better photos....

I never got an iPhone. I picked up a Blackberry Bold because of my company's security policy. In any case, I haven't seen the reboot problem yet even though my wife's had the phone for a couple of months. We'll see what the future holds for both of us 3G newbies...

Also, I'm not trying to convince myself of anything nor trying to convince others of anything. It's another option that I decided to put out there for discussion. For me, it's an option, especially because I fly overseas a lot and not having to buy SD cards for each country and then having to keep them updated with current maps is a definite bonus. In the end, it ends up being cheaper for me. Obviously, for others in different circumstances, it might not be worth it.

Lastly, whether one likes Apple or not ( I personally don't because everything is so proprietary and at times they remind me of a mini Microsoft ), there is no denying that they've come up with an interesting product that, in time, will revolutionize the industry. Once the door is open, others will use it and the big question is will Garmin, Tom Tom and the others be able to keep up. I'm almost certain they will have to change to survive... who knows, maybe Nuvis will become car phones and bounce back messages to your home computer telling you where your kids are or worse: Telling your wife where you are! Maybe they'll detect a rollover and dial 911 automatically. Who knows....

Yeah you probably don't want to get an iPhone.

Say what you want about Apple and the iPhone, but I can assure you that the new cell phones will start to cut into Garmin's market share.

Don't get me wrong. People who want a dedicated GPS unit will still buy a dedicated GPS unit. But the vast majority of people will turn to their cell phone for that occasional time that they need driving directions.

At the current time cell phone GPS directions are in an infantile stage. But in a year or two cell phones will be able to do everything that your Garmin GPS does. And scarier, cell phones will be able to do things your Garmin can't. Why do you thing Garmin was (is?) trying to make their NuviFone? Because Garmin sees the writing on the wall.

The days of a dedicated GPS unit are numbered. At least as a mass market item capable of keeping a company like Garmin in business. So Garmin either has to evolve or die.

Not.
Not there yet.
But a handy one when you don't have your real GPS handy. Slow and does not have all the features.
But, I still like to know I have that feature in the Iphone. Mine does not need rebooting every so often
as previously mentioned.

Stand alone GPS only cost about $60 map update per year vs. more on phone monthly fee. Maybe Garmin will do new map web update say $5 per month or $10 every quarter so it still cost lesser than the monthly phone fee.

I am not really sure I understand how you draw your conclusion about iPhones and other cell phones taking share away from Garmin based upon your statements.

"People who want a dedicated GPS unit will still buy a dedicated GPS unit." --Sounds just like Garmin's target market and basic customer. So you agree there is no loss to cell phones there.

"The vast majority of people will turn to their cell phone for that occasional time that they need driving directions"--I assure you that Garmin has not been marketing these advanced, relatively high priced devices to the user that "occasionally" needs directions.

Why do I think Garmin is trying to make the Nuviphone? The same reason Apple added GPS to their iPhone. To gain share in a new multi-use market and meet some consumers' needs for a single device that does many things adequately as opposed to exceptionally. Does Apple see the "writing on the wall" by adding GPS to the iPhone? I do not understand your logic.

By the way, I bought my first iPhone the first month of release and have the first and second gen. versions. I am a typical Garmin customer and just bought the high end 880 three weeks ago.

Sorry, should have phrased it better. How's this:

The small percentage of the population who want a dedicated GPS unit will still buy a dedicated GPS unit. But the vast majority of the population will turn to their cell phone for that occasional time that they need driving directions.

And yes, Garmin is marketing to the occasional user. Why do you think they have been pushing out their lower end units. The magic price point for small electronics is $200 or less. Two years ago Garmin did not offer low end units. Now, the low end units account for the majority of their sales. Why do you think that is.

And despite your belief, the "typical" Garmin customer does not purchase the 8xx series. Those are too expensive for the typical customer.

Just a couple of real facts from the most recent Garmin 10Q to illustrate that there is no "writing on the wall" (beyond positive news) for Garmin and GPS sales.

-Automotive/mobile segment revenue grew 24.4% from the year-ago quarter, on the strength of nüvi and other personal navigation devices (PNDs).

-Gross profit dollars in the first half of 2008 grew 20.4% and gross profit margin percentage declined 280 basis points over the same period of the previous year
-Automotive/mobile revenue remains a significantly larger portion of our revenue mix, rising from 68.4% in the second quarter of 2007 to 69.3% in the second quarter of 2008
-Revenues in our outdoor/fitness segment grew the fastest due to the introduction of the Colorado™ series, the Forerunner® 405 and Edge® 705.
-Our aviation segment also performed well with 15.2% growth from the year ago quarter
-The automotive/mobile segment is by nature a lower-margin business and the Company has begun to see the impacts expected on gross margin due to falling prices and a product mix shift toward lower end PNDs.
-Increases in sales for the 26-week period ended June 28, 2008 were due to a strong response to automotive, outdoor/fitness product offerings. Automotive/mobile revenue remains a significantly larger portion of our revenue mix, rising from 66.8% in the first half of 2007 to 68.8% in the first half of 2008.

Does not quite sound like a company that is grasping for solutions to remain competitive and solvent.

Garmin is doing well and is merely introducing products that will keep them just as competitive in the future.

Although I've always been something of a gadget freak, that doesn't extend to my cell phone. I don't do text messages, couldn't care less that the phone can take photos, and I don't want to use it to access the net. So no matter how slick the iPhone's features may be, I'm never going to have one (unless maybe they start giving them away for free). I'll keep my Nuvi and use my basic cell phone to call people - which is all I want it to do.

Dear BobDee,

After reading your message above it seems to me you're really trying to convince everybody how terrible overall Apple is, instead of debating the topic i.e. GPS functions as provided by two gadgets, the iPhone and a Garmin.

Coincidentally, being an owner of both a car Garmin and an iPhone I was surprised, while browsing this forum, to find someone reaching the same conclusions I have about the two products: Garmin a great GPS, but iPhone, just an extended phone device being actually a great GPS device too.

I appreciate the debate, hence my post. Would just prefer to not see it geting turned into a flame war Mac vs. PC; so old news...

H.
Happy user of PCs, Macs, Garmin and iPhone.

(... and let's be honest here buddy, the iPone needs no more reboots than perhaps once a month)

Things are not all rosy in Garmin land:

Issue Name Garmin Ltd.
Last Sale Price $ 32.18
Net Change $ 0.33
Net Change Percent -1.02%
Share Volume 2,662,126
Today's High $ 33.19
Today's Low $ 31.83
Previous Close $ 32.51
Best Bid Price $ 32.25
Best Ask Price $ 32.50
52-Week High $ 125.68
52-Week Low $ 30.73
Current P/E Ratio 7.91

Now I am really confused. I thought we were discussing the state of Garmin stand alone GPS, how iPhone stacks up, and how it has/will impact sales and market share.

I provided all the details of how Garmin has an incredible and quite franky unbelievable double digit growth across the board in a highly competitive GPS world. This substantiates that stand alone GPS for Garmin are still highly sought after and sufficiently profitable.

Not sure what you are conveying with respect to this thread topic by listing stock prices and P/E ratios.

How Wallstreet analyst are reacting has zero bearing on the future success of Garmin or any company. As we all should know by now.

they may be great but try traveling in nevada.

Here is a good POI thread that lays out the iPhone vs. GPS pros/cons:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/15406

Seems like there are more iPhone cons. Having both devices myself I agree.

I'm a bit of a gadget freak also and I fully agree. When AT&T Wireless was bought out by Cingular, I dropped text messaging because they started charging for incoming text messages. My new phone had Internet capability, but with data plans starting at $50/mo. plus the voice plan, data was also shut off. My phone runs me just about $40/mo., voice only and that's with all taxes and fees. My Nuvi cost me $199 and I won't have to upgrade the maps for until the 2010/2011 timeframe. So, with an update in 2 years, that means I will have about $260 invested over 4 years or about 1 1/2 months of cell phone charges per year. Hmm, when it comes to the bottom line of what's sticking in my wallet, is there any comparison?

That my friend is why Garmin is continuing to sell the heck out of GPS units at increased rates. Until something significantly and dramatically changes on the cell phone end (with respect to pricing/value AND functionality) the Garmins of the world will still have their solid market.

Believe me...I did not want to set my new iPhone down to buy a Garmin. It just made sense.

Why pick Garmin? Check them all.... Over the last 3 or 4 months I've lost $50,000 on paper and it wasn't Garmin stock.....

I'm not picking on Garmin stock. I was responding to a prior poster who was alluding to the supposed fact that Garmin is thriving.

This iPhone/cell phone/GPSr debate can go on forever. Only time will tell us which side was correct.

So in two years lets check back and see how dedicated GPS units compare to cell phones.

As I stated somewhere above, costs are dependent on what you actually require. If you don't leave North America, don't really care that maps are a year out of date and/or can't afford wireless data charges, then yes a GPS unit is fine. If you actually use your GPS in Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa and need to purchase all those maps for your Garmin and then have to keep purchasing updates for all of them on a yearly basis, then you might think that the Nuvi is more expensive. Likewise, if you throw in roaming data charges, the iPhone costs go up. Each person's requirements are different as is their concept of what is or isn't expensive. So coming here and stating costs, which are completely different from person to person, really means nothing.

My original intend wasn't comparing which costs more or which is a better deal because that's all relative to how much money you have to waste on these gadgets. The intent really was that for me... let me emphasize that... for me and my needs, the iPhone can pretty much replace my Nuvi. I was curious if anyone else had come to that conclusion and if not, why they thought it couldn't. Maybe I missed something that others hadn't.

I was actually trying to decide between getting an iPhone 3G and a Nuvi as well earlier, but with my old phone just working fine and no desire to check email or surf the web on the go, I figured going the dedicated GPS way was better and cheaper for me, even if it meant carrying around 2 things rather than 1. It is quite cool that the iPhone 3G incorporates GPS though.

Freddie40,

From a need and use perspective here is why I choose to use the Garmin Nuvi 880 almost exclusively when I am in an automobile or mobile mode (70% of the Garmin buyers). I leave my iPhone in my pocket on Bluetooth mode.

A few separating attributes:

-Turn by turn TTS directions
-Handsfree access to all my contacts and phone numbers, and phone calls
-Handfree and basically immediate access to all movie theaters and times
-Handfree and basically immediate access to closest stores, restaurants, etc.
-Handsfree access to maps, routes, POIs, and custom POIs
-Minimal reading (or eyes off the road) with TTS and VR
-Redlight and Speed Zone alerts are invaluable
-User replaceable battery
-No contract...I can upgrade or change when I want
-It was designed to be a GPS, not a phone. But when needed as a phone it meets all the requirements for a phone very effectively. Make call, place call, hang up.

I enjoy my iPhone very much and will be buying my third in about a month. But in terms of a GPS in my personal usage the iPhone is lacking and requires more user interaction and visual focus.

But you are the one that brought up costs, so lets do a little comparison.

The least expensive plan for an iPhone 3G is $69.99 per month with 450 minutes of voice usage. The unlimited plan which most people buy is $129.99 per month.

Text messaging ranges from 20 cents per message - in or out, to $20 per month for unlimited. I believe most users are paying about $15 per month for text messages.

Going with the unlimited plan and 1500 messages. that comes to $144.99 per month. Now, add the fees as per this schedule taken from the ATT web site:

Regulatory Cost Recovery Charge
0.73
Federal Universal Service Fund
11.4%
State Universal Service Fund
$0.00
Other AT&T Surcharges
10.00% - 11.00%

Comes to $179.21 per month if you are in Washington DC - your numbers will vary depending on where you are. As stated earlier, my Nuvi 200 runs me about $5.42 per month annualized over 4 years with one map update. And I'm talking domestic only - travel outside the country is moot as the roaming costs for your iPhone are even worse than buying a map for Europe or other countries.

Incidentally, it takes at least 3 years to build a major road, so unless you are traveling in a lot of fast growing residential areas, you don't need annual map updates. Changes to major cities as far as business/manufacturing areas happen over the course of 3 to 5 years, so if I were to have a European map, it wouldn't be outdated very quickly traveling around the major cities so that argument about needing annual updates just doesn't fly.

Now we add in my cell phone - $41.20 per month on the average with fees/taxes and my discount. Total bill, right around $47 per month for phone and location services. And yes, I have a data card for my laptop - runs just about $80 per month with all fees and taxes. That brings my connectivity charges to a total of $122 per month. That is about $700 per year less than your iPhone.

Yes, I lug around 4 items, a GPS, a cell phone (with camera), a lap top that does a lot more than surf the web and an air card to your one device, but then I'm not completely shut down if one device dies. Oh, I average better than 60 hotel nights a year also. My Nuvi 200 and its beanbag fit very nicely in my rolling computer case ready to be put to work when I get to my destination - and I don't have to worry about not having cell phone coverage when I go to remote places to have directional capability.

Check out this link from Garmin.......

http://www8.garmin.com/mobile/mobilext/

Hellraiserpt old Buddy
Let's be honest here, the PC Mac commercials only work when apple does the dirty deed huh?

I under stand Apple gave AT&T one day with the g3 before they released it, I don't have to prove how terrible overall Apple is, they did it themselves with the release of the G3IPhone. I wouldn't expect anything any different from someone who bought one to cover for their own mistake.

You forgot read to the bottom of my message to actually see the bottom line in my message. So I will show it to you here, so be sure to read it this time

What's Wrong With the 3G in iPhone 3G?
http://tinyurl.com/68y5qo

Enjoy your PCs, Macs, Garmin and iPhone.

Bob

Hmmmmm.. you bring up some good points, although it wasn't me that started with the costs. I just responded and it took off from there. My cell bill is usually close to $500 per month ( granted I don't pay for it ) so I would never bring that up as positive to choose cell phones over nuvis. I guess the difference between me and most others is that I really don't want to carry around four gadgets, I'm not really concerned about the costs and I basically only use my Nuvi for driving directions and to find a destination, ie restaurant, hotel, gas station, etc. I also like the fact that my car stands a slightly less chance of getting broken into ( I know... use the beanbag Luke! But it's just big, heavy and awkward in my opinion. )

A couple of years ago I didn't think I could live without my nuvi. Two years later, with the iPhone ( which isn't mine by the way ) I can pretty much leave the nuvi behind. Who knows, maybe in a couple of years, the iPhone software will further evolve, cell charges will lower and a few others may come to the same conclusion. What I don't think anyone can deny, well I'm sure some can and will, is that unless Garmin and the others adapt, the market share they enjoy today may eventually dry up just like it did for the Commodore64. Oh oh, let me get out of here before the Commodore64 fans start to post replies

Yeah I downloaded this a while back, or at least it was something like it. I noticed it on the Blackberry site and decided to give it a try. It effectively changed my blackberry into a Nuvi. Same graphics, voice prompts etc. I didn't really notice a difference from it to my Nuvi. Once the free trial was up, I deleted it. Why did I delete it? I had my Nuvi... why pay twice for something? As my Nuvi gets more and more out of date and as I probably won't buy any more map updates, this might actually become an alternative that I might purchase.

This is a good sign that Garmin is indeed "adapting". Who knows, maybe they will dump being a hardware company in favor of being a software company using other's hardware platforms.